Hello there all, I'm hoping there is someone with a little knowledge to help me out here.
I'm an needing a root canal done, as I have a dying nerve, or dying tooth. I was told to take antibiotics before the procedure, but I show no signs of infection. I feel pain, but just from the actual nerve. Has anyone had any experience with this?
My concern is, I've been on antibiotic twice already this year...Once from a sinus infection I couldn't shake after 3 weeks, and the other from an eye infection from a clogged tear duct. Random things that never happen to me! I'd rather not use them, but obviously if its necessary, I will do. I just know that dentist and docs tend to throw antibiotics around, and I don't want to take them if its not completely necessary.
BTW... I'm 100% raw, with a cooked meal maybe once every 2 weeks, and always vegan.
Thanks for any advice!
Hi, Raw Mommy, I'm sorry to hear you are suffering.
You probably won't like what I'm about to say, but I mean it with very good intention and I'm well-read on dental health.
You would be very wise to consider not having a root canal done.
Read the research papers of Weston A Price to find out why. His book is also excellent. Ramiel Nagel discusses some of his work too, in a contemporary format.
People in the raw vegan community ignorantly bash Price's work because he recommended butter and cod liver oil, but that is completely missing the point (and the value) of his work. The man and his work were an incredible gift to humanity. He was one of the first to find out how dangerous root canals are (they harbour toxic bacteria for a lifetime). I sincerely urge you to open-mindedly read his work on root canals even if you don't agree with dairy or animal products in your diet. They're 2 totally seperate issues; 2 totally seperate topics of research and to dismiss Price's work is therefore akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
It might be possible that your sinus infection and eye infection might, just possibly, have both been related to a profuse amount of bacteria in your mouth, from your dying tooth. Just bear that in mind.
Also, consider if there may be other factors additionally challenging your immune system (e.g. do you perhaps have silver dental amalgam fillings? - Mercury is one of the most powerful immune-suppressant substances in existence).
In order to make a wise and well-informed decision about where you go from here, with your dental treatment, you are going to need to be courageous and open-minded in stepping outside of the vegan box for just a while, to do a little research - by all means, you can climb back into your vegan box afterwards. Understand that a root canal can secrete highly pathogenic bacteria for an entire lifetime, and this can have repercussions for your entire body (e.g. the cardiovascular system). It's not a decision to be taken lightly and don't let any dentist convince you it's an easy, casual, unimportant decision with little or no repercussions, because the reality of it is that it isn't.
If you'd like to listen to some podcasts about dental matters like this, you can obtain some free ones from OneRadioNetwork.com
NB: to anyone reading this post and jumping to the conclusion that I must be infringing forum rules; I'm not promoting non-veganism, I am merely pointing out that some extremely valuable and useful research has been conducted in the field of dentistry (including root canals) during the first part of the last century and it was not necessarily all conducted by vegans. That doesn't mean it should be ignored or dismissed by devout vegans, unless they delusionally think they already know everything there is to know on the topic of dentistry, even without having read classic research on the topic. One can read such material without needing to abandon one's dietary ideals - you learn, and then you apply aspects of what you've learned within the boundaries of your beliefs, be they vegan or otherwise. Vegans and non-vegans, alike, can suffer with dental infections, regardless of their personal dietary philososphies - there's absolutely no difference whatsoever between a vegan person's root canal and a non-vegan person's root canal, and the same scientific research and scientific principles apply exactly the same to each of them! They each carry the same inherent potential risks. Those who know me here on RFT know that I'm sincere in wishing to help people from all walks of life and that I respect Alissa's board. In fact, I would consider it extremely disrespectful and downright immoral to withhold information from an RFT member which might benefit them for the entire remainder of their lifetime. THE ASPECTS OF PRICE'S WORK THAT PERTAIN TO ROOT CANALS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH DIET AT ALL, so any vegans reading this can relax.
I'm not religious but I can pick up a bible and read a few pages from time to time without fearing that my agnosticism is somehow being threatened. I hope I've made my point!
Raw Mommy, in addition to your self-directed research on root canals, if you require any information relating to dental amalgam (I don't know if that's relevant to your situation or not, since you haven't mentioned it), then I can most certainly assist in that regard, too. I don't personally have any root canals but I do have personal experience of mercury intoxication.
Take care, and let me know if you need any more input.
Last edited by Arky; 09-30-2012 at 10:41 AM.
the small print cracked me up
Originally Posted by Aleesha Sattva
Well, it certainly wasn't without basis, now was it?
I've done my time here at RFT. I know how the mods operate on this board. Seen HUNDREDS of threads deleted in a reactionary manner.
You know it.
I know it.
Tell me I'm wrong.
I'm not sure I understand the last comment above this one. I think its a little crazy to just pretend that the world is anything but vegan or raw. Of course there are other people in the world, and there opinion, especially if someone is asking for it, is appreciated, no matter what they eat. I don't want to just pretend that other don't exist, thats just silly. There are many intellegent non vegans in the world. Just being realistic... everyone accepted! I'm sure most people on here have family who are not like we are... just ignore, don't be dramatic about it :)
Anyway...I'm not sure what this doctor has to say, because I haven't read anything yet, but I am going to look up the dangers of root canal. So thank you! Thank you for making me aware that it could be dangerous. I DO have metal in my mouth Done when I was a minor... I'd love to get them all replaced, but I just have to do it one at a time, when I have the money.
I appreciate your help on many levels, but I don't think I'll give up my raw foodness :) But I will research root canals better!! Thanks again.
I want to thank you again, because I didn't think about the actual root canal being a risk, but after a very short research period, I am seeing that it is NOT an option I would like to go with. So many dangers! I am also wondering if you know any dangers with implants. I'm wondering the acceptance rate with your body, and what they are made of. Since I'm looking to eventually replace my metal fillings, I wouldn't want to implant something that is equally poisonous. Any advice is appreciated.
I'm currently doing some research of my own on this subject. Sometime I feel like NOTHING in this world is for real... nothing is good for us. Everything humans do is so degenerative in itself. Lets all go live on an island and live off the land again! 3rd world all the way! LOL
Originally Posted by Raw Mommy
OK, look, I have to warn you that this is a rabbit hole. You have a choice - blindly trust what doctors or dentists tell you, OR steel yourself and make the effort to do some research (I'm glad to hear you've already taken a step in the latter direction). The cost of not doing your own research can be devastating.
So, with that said:
1) Some very important Precautions:
Don't panic, but just be aware that mercury amalgam fillings have certain risks:
- NEVER (*NEVER* **EVER**) eat anything with cilantro in it.
- Be mindful that mercury can suppress the immune system
- It is a good idea to have mercury amalgams removed, as and when you can (I sympathise that it is expensive) BUT you mustn't make the horrendous mistake of letting any ordinary dentist do this, because huge amounts of mercury vapour can be released and great care must be taken to ensure that the patient does not ingest / breathe in this vapour during the removal procedure. Your relevant research on this topic is The Huggins Protocol
- Having mercury amalgams removed is only half the process - once your mouth has no mercury, you then have to remove mercury from the cells and tissues in the rest of your body. You will find every man and his dog on the internet telling you that this is easy and that you should just eat/chew/juice/tincture cilantro, but cilantro is extremely dangerous because it can transfer mercury across the blood-brain barrier, into the brain. The safe way to remove mercury from your body is by 'Frequent Dose Chelation', and your research on this topic will be 'The Cutler Protocol'. I am walking my talk with this because I am dealing with heavy metal intoxication and I follow the Cutler Protocol myself - I am fortunate that I took personal responsibility for researching safe treatment for my intoxication issues, because I could have major neurological damage if I had just followed the advice to use cilantro. If you use the 'search' function here on RFT, you'll find I've posted many thousands of words on the topic of heavy metals. I particularly recommend that you read the discussions with another member 'Terry Brown'. She is the perfect person for you to also contact, because although I am privileged to have been able to share with her my research, and personal experience, about safe mercury detoxification, she picked up the baton and has done additional personal research on dental implants.
You can also find conversations between Terry and myself, if you go to my personal profile and read through the messages between the two of us there.
Amongst the various conversations between Terry and I, here on RFT, you'll also find that, with regard to the mercury detoxification side of things, I recommend the 'Frequent Dose Chelation' Yahoo! Group, which is a support group for people following the Cutler Protocol.
Anyway, since it is extremely dangerous to attempt mercury detoxification until all mercury has been professionally removed from the mouth, the topic of mercury detoxification will not be an immediate concern for you; I'm just giving you the above overview now, in the hope that it will enable you to avoid some very, very serious potential pitfalls. I wish someone had done the same for me, but thankfully my personal initiative saved me - there are many people on the mercury detoxification support/discussion groups who were not so fortunate and suffered terribly as a consequence (mostly related to reckless dentists and bad advice to use cilantro).
2) SO, where do you currently stand?
You have a tooth in a bad way that might be a cause of your sinus infection, and clearly needs something doing with it, but a root canal's not really the best option. I really suggest you chat with Terry as she's walked that path herself. She can also help you in considering the options for implants (they're not a magic solution without issues, either), or perhaps a bridge or simply a removal...
As time goes by, and as finances allow, I hope you will be able to find a way to remove the mercury amalgams from your mouth (using the Huggins Protocol, I hope). When you've got that far, you can then contemplate the mercury detoxification side of things, which, if you're going to do it without unnecessarily risking your neurological health, you're going to need to go on the Cutler Protocol for. The Cutler Protocol is something I can offer you a lot of help with, in due course.
Take care, and please don't feel too overwhelmed or intimidated. Everyone who's faced this kind of health challenge goes through moments when they think it is insurmountable but, by carefully researching the options, rather than blindly trusting whatever the doctors and dentists say, one can move forwards, one step at a time, avoiding potential pitfalls, and gradually make progress.
I wish you well.
Last edited by Arky; 10-01-2012 at 06:51 PM.
Originally Posted by walnutty
Mercola does a fine job of raising awareness of many health issues and I have some respect for him for being a courageous trailblazer in that regard, but please anyone needing to remove mercury from the body (after it has already been removed from the mouth) do not make the mistake of following Mercola's chelation advice - it is DANGEROUS. His advice on oral removal using the Huggins Protocol is safe, it's the subsequent chelation advice he offers in his 'Mercola mercury detox protocol' which is downright dangerous. I've contacted his staff personally on this, and so have several other experienced people on the mercury chelation boards, but he is curiously deaf-eared to our protestations, even though many of these people have suffered greatly from using chelation methods he recommends (e.g. use of cilantro). I'm not criticising any of his other articles, just the chelation advice.
@ Raw Mommy: Please look in your messages in your RawFoodTalk profile, because I've contacted Terry (the lady I mentioned a couple of posts previously, above) by e-mail and she has, as I'd hoped, kindly agreed to help you with advice on implants etc.
Read the research papers of Weston A Price to find out why. His book is also excellent. Ramiel Nagel discusses some of his work too, in a contemporary format.
AND that's the problem! Mercola, Huggins (he ultimately lost his license and had to serve time in prison), etc are/were basing their conclusions on research done in Price's time. Can you imagine how endocontics were in the 1920's - no dental dams, sodium hypochloride, and NO radiographs (hence, countless missed canals)?! It's no wonder the (still) prevailing bacteria traveled throughout the body, colonized and took up residence!!! .
In view of your recent infections, which is more than likely due to your tooth, your dr probably suspects transient bacteria and is erring on the side of caution by suggesting antibiotics. It usually only involves one or two doses just prior to the procedure. BTW, you still have a viable living tooth , it's not dead.
Nothing wrong with striving for and wanting to maintain optimal health, but it's got to be balanced. Opting for extraction.....well....sounds rather extreme to me, and if you are afraid of the mercury, why not ask your dentist about composites or gold. Lots cheaper than an implant, and the titanium used for them also carries a risk.
Last edited by lafsalot; 10-03-2012 at 03:04 AM.
Originally Posted by Arky
How should the mercury be removed?
Using the Cutler Protocol. You'll find I've discussed this at length, here on RFT (just search 'Cutler'), and you can find a dedicated support group on Curezone, but the best Cutler support group is FDC, on Yahoo!:
Originally Posted by greif
If you have any specific questions on the protocol, I'm happy to answer them but you will find a great deal discussed and answered in my other Cutler-related posts here on RFT, if you take the time to read them.
Really interesting read:
Down at the bottom they share that dental health can be regained - decay reversed through a diet high in Vit D and without grains. Sounds like a healthy raw diet to me!
There is info on root canals as well.
I stumbled on this thread today. I have 2 root canals done due to extreme pain in the teeth, and reading this topic scares me. I don't even know if mercury was used in the procedure when it was done. Now I need to learn more.