Vitamins!!!!!!!

[climbing]

Zinc is easy to get.

Chlorella, sprouts, sea vegetables. Even sprouting alfalfa makes the zinc four times more available, same goes with many of the other sprouts. Big zinc boys are sesame seed sprouts, sunflower sprouts and poppy seed sprouts. Poppy seed sprouts are the highest source of zinc discovered on Earth.

That is good to know because I eat a lot of sprouts.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

tolondontoparis asked me to take a peak at this thread so I'll whack in my two bob to help her and others out as it seems a lot of people are confused about B12. I can't blame them. It gets confusing sifting through all the rubbish on the internet. This will be a lot of reading but I will try and keep it simple to help everyone understand how B12 works as I've done a lot of resarch on it. I've been called a "know all" in other threads and I wasn't going to use the forum anymore because of it, but I won't apologise for knowing a lot. Afterall, that's why I came here... to share this knowlege and help people that have began the journey that I've been on for years. Anyway....

No one in my family (none of them are raw and eat basically lots of crap) have ever had a B12 deficiency. I on the other hand who has been predominantly raw for about half my life have had a B12 deficiency, twice. Once because I wasn’t including it in my diet (neither through food or supplements) and the second time because I couldn’t absorb it due to gastritis.

To understand Vitamin B12 absorption, you have to understand the different phases B12 goes through in our digestive tracts and understand the proteins that they bind to that enables absorption.

First off, certain types of glycoproteins produced by saliva glands binds to B12. Hydrochloric acid destroys B12 in the stomach so for it to stay intact, it needs to bind to something. It does this by binding to a certain glycoprotein called haptocorrin. When it’s bound together, it then becomes a B12 complex which can survive the acidity of the stomach. This complex then eventually travels through the stomach, into the lower part of the stomach, into the duodendum where pancreatic juices splits the complex by digesting the haptocorrin, leaving B12 as it was in it’s original form. So a lack of glycoproteins is hurdle number one and this is why chewing food properly is very important. Not just for the digestion of B12 but for other nutrients as well. Even if you’re not chewing, say if you're having juice or a smoothie, this is the reason why they recommend we hold the mouthful in our mouth for 10 seconds, squishing it around before swallowing. This way we release enough saliva and hence enough of these essential digestive proteins and enzymes. Of course this doesn't work with B12 if you're on a raw vegan but just to understand the process, I've mentioned it.

Back to the B12 little journey... at this stage of the stomach, the B12 then binds to another glycoprotein called Gastric Intrinsic Factor (GIF) and forms another complex. If it doesn’t bind to this, it cannot be absorbed. Without the GIF, the B12 basically gets flushed out of our systems. It doesn’t matter whether the B12 is from food (raw or cooked) or from supplements (in any oral form), without being transformed into this complex, it is ineffective. This complex then moves through the digestive tract to the small intestine (the ileum to be specific) where it’s absorbed into cells when the B12 again is released from the GIF and is then bound to another protein called transcobalamin II, creating a third complex. This complex then travels to the liver where it is processed and absorbed.

l was thinking this girl might know about this subject, then l came to these two paragraphs below and am now not so sure. Still...good to see an opinion and someone actually studying into the topic.

The B12 doesn’t even reach the colon, so cleaning the colon makes no difference to B12 absorption whatsoever. It will only reach the colon it if it’s not bound to GIF and therefore will be useless and flushed down the toilet.

Hmmm, people's experiences do run contrary to this.

The only way to increase your B12 levels in this case is to bypass the digestive system and have it injected directly into your bloodstream.

Sounds nice and simple, but my 6th sense is saying you are over simplifying things. That said...l did enjoy the read and like that you do bother to research the topic. But as we both know, the internet is a dangerous place and wrong opinions are easily formed. What is the clinical research saying about all of this? l know it is not saying the claim you make directly above.

[aviatrix79]

l was thinking this girl might know about this subject, then l came to these two paragraphs below and am now not so sure. Still...good to see an opinion and someone actually studying into the topic.



Hmmm, people's experiences do run contrary to this.


Sounds nice and simple, but my 6th sense is saying you are over simplifying things. That said...l did enjoy the read and like that you do bother to research the topic. But as we both know, the internet is a dangerous place and wrong opinions are easily formed. What is the clinical research saying about all of this? l know it is not saying the claim you make directly above.

lol, I did not do my research on the internet, however, even the internet is a better resource than your sixth sense ;) B12 gets absorbed in the small intestine. It doesn't make it to the colon unless it's not bound to GIF, which renders it useless. This is pretty common knowledge actually. It's basic biology that most of us learnt (or should have learnt) in high school. The colon doesn't play much of a part in absorption of nutrients. Nutrients are absorbed in the small intestine. The main role of the colon is to eliminate waste, it absorbs water, some minerals (mainly salt) and a very small amount of fat soluble vitamins (A,D & E mainly) are absorbed there but that's pretty much it.

Bacteria in the colon metabolises and breaks down the crap left in there... (the fiber) and this produces a small amount of fat soluble vitamins and some are absorbed if one is deficient... most of the nutrient intake has already occured in the small intestine. Vitamin B12 however cannot be absorbed without the GIF.

www.haematologica.org/content/91/6/805.full.pdf
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/184/5/337.extract


And yes, I did oversimplify it. I didn’t want to write 20 pages and bore everyone (including myself). I wrote what was relevant about absorption and where it is absorbed.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

And is raw not the best way to get B vitamins?

Yes it is, but going raw doesn't mean that getting enough B vitamins is going to be easy, especially if the food is bought from shops or farmers markets. The highest sources of vitamins are sprouts.

I am so confused as to weather humans are meant to eat...you know...or not! I want the best for my body!

lf you are confused about it then it is better just to eat a healthy raw vegan diet.

lf you want the best for your body, EAT FRESH!!!
lf you want the best for your body, EAT SPROUTS!!! Probably 100+ times the nutrition of store bought produce and much superior fiber to any vegetables. Why work your body so hard with the silly coarse fiber that vegetables contain? Vegetables are low in amino acids, so eat sprouts and algaes and sea weeds instead + get a treasure trove of goodies that fruit and vegies don't have.

Who does better on a sprout diet v's a vegetables diet? = first group.
Who does better on a sprout diet v's sprout diet with wheatgrass = second group
Who does better on a sprout + wheatgrass v's a sprout + wheatgrass + sea vegie diet = second group
Who does better on a sprout + wheatgrass + sea vegie v's a sprout + wheatgrass + sea vegie + spirulina diet = second group
Who does better on a sprout + wheatgrass + sea vegie + spirulina diet v's a sprout + wheatgrass + sea vegie + chlorella diet = second group


See...it's not very hard if you look at the clinical research. Some diets are better than others. Best to get the most potent diet with the most suitable fiber with the freshest foods if you want true health...it make sense, no?

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

And is raw not the best way to get B vitamins?

Yes it is, but going raw doesn't mean that getting enough B vitamins is going to be easy, especially if the food is bought from shops or farmers markets. The highest sources of vitamins are sprouts.

I am so confused as to weather humans are meant to eat...you know...or not! I want the best for my body!

lf you are confused about it then it is better just to eat a healthy raw vegan diet.

lf you want the best for your body, EAT FRESH!!!
lf you want the best for your body, EAT SPROUTS!!! Probably 100+ times the nutrition of store bought produce and much superior fiber to any vegetables. Why work your body so hard with the silly coarse fiber that vegetables contain? Vegetables are low in amino acids, so eat sprouts and algaes and sea weeds instead + get a treasure trove of goodies that fruit and vegies don't have.

Who does better on a sprout diet v's a vegetables diet? = first group.
Who does better on a sprout diet v's sprout diet with wheatgrass = second group
Who does better on a sprout + wheatgrass v's a sprout + wheatgrass + sea vegie diet = second group
Who does better on a sprout + wheatgrass + sea vegie v's a sprout + wheatgrass + sea vegie + spirulina diet = second group
Who does better on a sprout + wheatgrass + sea vegie + spirulina diet v's a sprout + wheatgrass + sea vegie + chlorella diet = second group


See...it's not very hard if you look at the clinical research. Some diets are better than others. Best to get the most potent diet with the most suitable fiber with the freshest foods if you want true health...it make sense, no?

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

lol, I did not do my research on the internet, however, even the internet is a better resource than your sixth sense ;)

Depends on the person's 6th sense. Man created knowledge (eg science) is never going to be as superior or accurate as universal truth that a hightened 6th sense will get from the cosmos.

And lets not forget that most folks are only supposed to use 5% of their brain, that's why the human race makes mistakes...because they think things are so cut and dried and that they know alot, but experience has shown this is often not the case, the 5 percenters are often wrong because they often think they are right (so not open to various clinical research because the old science they were taught says it is impossible...that's where the 5 percenters usually fall down). But if you are using more than 5% of your brain (the people with good 6th sense and access to the cosmic information), then that person has a much greater chance of having a basic understanding than your scientist only using 5% of his brain. The point is, you can't underestimate the higher powers we all have within us.

And where do you think these scientists who made great discoveries got their information from, do you think it was the education system? Or was it them tapping into a much higher source to access the information that already existed? Some of the great scientists obviously were using more than 5% of their brain, but l wouldn't think many in the education system would be using more than 5%...formal schooling and great intelligence isn't such a good match.

B12 gets absorbed in the small intestine. It doesn't make it to the colon unless it's not bound to GIF, which renders it useless. This is pretty common knowledge actually. It's basic biology that most of us learnt (or should have learnt) in high school. The colon doesn't play much of a part in absorption of nutrients.

Science is always finding new discoveries and getting things wrong because of their limited view of things, but you seem to think of things as so cut and dried by science...this makes me think that you probably don't know what you are talking about like the rest of us.

All l can do is report the clinical research, not the fancy science theories.

You may be right, or you may be wrong. Hopefully we learn much more about the human body one day and really understand these issues.

[aviatrix79]

Depends on the person's 6th sense. Man created knowledge (eg science) is never going to be as superior or accurate as universal truth that a hightened 6th sense will get from the cosmos.

And lets not forget that most folks are only supposed to use 5% of their brain, that's why the human race makes mistakes...because they think things are so cut and dried and that they know alot, but experience has shown this is often not the case, the 5 percenters are often wrong because they often think they are right (so not open to various clinical research because the old science they were taught says it is impossible...that's where the 5 percenters usually fall down). But if you are using more than 5% of your brain (the people with good 6th sense and access to the cosmic information), then that person has a much greater chance of having a basic understanding than your scientist only using 5% of his brain. The point is, you can't underestimate the higher powers we all have within us.

And where do you think these scientists who made great discoveries got their information from, do you think it was the education system? Or was it them tapping into a much higher source to access the information that already existed? Some of the great scientists obviously were using more than 5% of their brain, but l wouldn't think many in the education system would be using more than 5%...formal schooling and great intelligence isn't such a good match.





Science is always finding new discoveries and getting things wrong because of their limited view of things, but you seem to think of things as so cut and dried by science...this makes me think that you probably don't know what you are talking about like the rest of us.

All l can do is report the clinical research, not the fancy science theories.

You may be right, or you may be wrong. Hopefully we learn much more about the human body one day and really understand these issues.

So what you are saying is that we should all ignore science and just go by your gut feeling. Gotchya lol. See ya!

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

So what you are saying is that we should all ignore science and just go by your gut feeling. Gotchya lol. See ya!

No, you haven't "gotchya", so l will explain in one paragraph below.

Go by your gut feeling if you have a good developed 6th sense, it won't let you down. The problem is that the 5 percenters don't have a well developed 6th sense so they are reliant on other folks for the information, and that can be a big problem....misinformation spreads like wildfire through our education systems.

One day we will be knowledgable enough to know how the body fully deals with B12, but today is not that day. And remember...not so long ago all the `so called' clever scientists were saying that raw food folks were crazy for thinking that enzymes in food survive the stomach and intestines, but `tagging therapy' proved this wrong. See...it's not smart for us to think we know more than we do, this is why we need to completely restructure the education system and get all this silly 5 percenter thinking out the door with the trash. The education system's biggest crime has been to teach us to be gullable and to teach us not to think for ourselves, and indeed...we have lost the art of thinking because the education system and the media do it for us .

Anyway...i've spent enough time on this, and l don't care to spend anymore time with folks with poor attitudes, so l am blocking you for as long as l stay here. Life is far too short to have to deal with such attitudes in my leasure time.

[aviatrix79]

l am blocking you for as long as l stay here.

Best thing you've written in this thread :)

[MysticTree]

I think Vitamin B12 is hugely misunderstood in the sense that I think the importance of getting it from food may be highly over stated.
Going by your gut instinct is all very well and it's all our ancestors had but that doesn't mean they were well nourished by default. I think it is entirely possible that society's preoccupation with anti-bacterial products and never getting dirty may have had a much bigger impact than is currently credited for.

[Raw Angel Mom]

I just starting getting the shots from my Dr. Every 2 weeks. They give me tons of energy.

Raw Mom do you know how it affects the parathyroid. They are helping me so much but I don't want to have a negative affect on something else. :)

Without question, if you are low in B12, you don't have much choice then to supplement right now, but in the mid time, look into working to establish a very healthy GI track. Some parasite could be also the cause of problem due that they eat the B12.

There is a nano B-complex that dr. Cousens sell. It is in liquid form, this kind is absorb able even though you cannot absorb b12. It has been tested and it was the kind that i used to use when i was supplementing. I felt also very happy after taking it and i would feel the effect immediately. Just to let you know other option. It is very expensive.

As for affecting the parathyroid negatively, i picked this from dr. Morse youtube. Some of the sign is not healing well when you wound yourself, brittle nail or hair, dry skin, varicose vein, etc.... I do not know scientifically how it affects the gland but you can surely try to research, perhaps even ask dr. Morse on his youtube, he always answers the questions.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Mr. Raw it is not the placebo affect. I have a great boost in energy. I am not sleepy by 8 pm. I am energetic till 11 pm or so. I am getting so much done. Before I could barely move off the couch. For now I am going to keep it up. The shots are working well for me.

This is what Dr Clement says in regards to that argument:

He says that B12 shots act almost like an amphetamine to the body, a stimulant if you will. People feel good for a few days, but then need B12 injections again.

These B12 shots are of the chemical form of B12, which is very different from the bacterial form. If you want to correct a vitamin B12 deficiency, you want the right form.

And as we know....if we consume chemicals over a lifetime the health will begin to suffer. So it's better to take a natural form that is absorbable. Man can't create a plant, so how can he create B12?...that's why l think Brian is correct in stating that B12 injections are only a stimulant that needs to be given regularly to give the person energy.

Here is a video on B12:
http://www.hippocrateshealthlifestyl...12-deficiency/

In the video Brian talks about many interesting things, but he also mentioned a situation wear 38 people took B12 injections, yet 32 were still deficient in B12. In regards to the other 6 who had B12 in their system, it could well be that they were able to manufacture B12 themselves because HHI has found over 30+ years with over 100,000 patients that only about 30% of the population can make B12, so it's quite possible that the six people taking B12 injections were making it themselves anyway. Anyway...it's common sense, how can bodies utilise chemicals properly?

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Another important thing to be aware of is that most doctors measure B12 wrong, so many people who think they are o.k in B12 actually aren't at all.

Look:
In the past, observing subjects who were consuming the proper living food diet, including a comprehensive mixture of food (vegetables, sprouts and limited fruit) for a period no less than 18 months, we recorded less than a 5% B- 12 deficiency based on standard blood analysis. The same group profile was then subjected to a leukocyce (White blood cell) analysis, where absorbed nutrients were mined from within the cell. Based on this test, however, 65% of the subjects studied are lacking sufficient bioactive B- 12.

[sport]

Lacking B12 can lead to serious and unrepairable problems. Why risk it. Supplement.