Acne, Vitamin D, and what do you supplement with?

[Arky]

My point is that almost all of us live in an environment that, cumulatively, over a lifetime, challenges the liver. Whilst not everyone necessarily has gallstones, it is logical to consume stonebreaking herbs for a while, as a preliminary step towards cleansing the liver.A person with less than optimum bile quality (and/or flow) is likely going to:# have less than optimum emulsification of ingested fats# experience a greater degree of recirculation of toxins (that would otherwise be freely excreted via the bile, out through the bowel), and likely experience a proportion of toxic burden being channelled out through the skin, since the liver-gallbladder, bowel and the skin are the primary routes of excretion of the body.These (and nutritional status) aren't the only possible contributors to acne but they're relevant considerations for anyone seeking to heal their condition through natural means (personally, I'd also consider the use of blood-cleansing herbs such as red clover, yellow dock etc., after the above organs have been cleansed, since improved blood flow to the skin will support transfer of waste & nutrients).Nutritionally, sulphur, silicon, antioxidants (E, carotenes, anthocyanidins etc.) are all relevant. Dark leafy greens, radishes, asparagus, etc. Too many to list. Lots of existing threads here on RFT if you search.David Wolfe's book 'Eating for Beauty' offers many suggestions, too.

[tolondontoparis]

Do you have any at home cleansing methods one could do? I really don't want to have to do the olive oil flush, and am tight for money! But I know my blood flow is slow, I am cold all the time!

[aviatrix79]

You're welcome :) Yeah I personally wouldn't recommend the liver flush. As for candida, mushrooms are fine, in fact, it will help eliminate candida as they're both different types of fungi. It's the same as good bacteria and bad bacteria. Having more good bacteria competes and helps keep bad bacteria under control. Candida is a natural part of us but when it gets out of control, that's when it becomes a problem. If you do have candida, that could also be a contributing factor to your acne. Candida, like Helicobactus Pilori, burrows through the intestinal walls and causes leaky gut. Then all sorts of crap gets into the bloodstream and the body responds trying to eliminate the toxins, including through the skin. You also get inflammatory disorders throughout your body. If you do have candida, that's another reason to reduce sugars and also have coconut oil and raw garlic. Start off with small amounts (because the die off effect can be quite harsh) and slowly increase the amount to say 2 tablespoons of coconut oil a day and to whatever garlic you can cope with (or others cope with lol). If you do have candida, take l-glutamine to help heal the intestinal lining. It's quite expensive on it's own but you may be able to find a multivitamin that includes l-glutamine in it. Cabbage juice is a good source of it too.

[Arky]

Do you have any at home cleansing methods one could do? I really don't want to have to do the olive oil flush, and am tight for money! But I know my blood flow is slow, I am cold all the time!

plenty of info in the link in post #6, above. Regarding candida, people spend far too much time chasing after a magic bullet substance (eg undecylenoic acid, caprylic acid etc.) to 'kill' candida, never stopping to consider what has led to the present state in the body. Candida is normally kept at negligible levels by a healthily-functioning immune system. That should be a huge clue. Of course, excessive sugar consumption can impede immune function, but there's generally much more at play in chronic and/or systemic infections or overgrowth. Heavy metals are one common culprit capable of inducing immune dysfunction, for example, as discussed in the following thread :


http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthrea...life-miserable

[aviatrix79]

My point is that almost all of us live in an environment that, cumulatively, over a lifetime, challenges the liver. Whilst not everyone necessarily has gallstones, it is logical to consume stonebreaking herbs for a while, as a preliminary step towards cleansing the liver.

Not necessarily. Fat is the main factor that triggers the gallbladder to release bile. If bile isn't released, then bile salts remain in the gallbladder which form gallstones. The average "SAD" diet doesn't lack fat. Diet's low in fat and overly high in fiber are more likely to cause gallstones than the reverse. As for the liver, a high raw diet is sufficient enough for a healthy liver over time. If a person switches from a "SAD" diet to 100% raw diet overnight, that will put their liver into overdrive eliminating toxins. This should be done slowly to avoid taxing the liver, not the other way around. All these liver flushing fads are nothing more than brainwashing gimmicks in an attempt to grab money from some poor sod who believes our body doesn't have ability to heal itself, given the right conditions. These liver flushes can even be harmful to certain people with certain conditions. I would never recommend any sort of liver flush to anyone. If someone has gallstones, there are herbs and foods that break them down slowly, without risking their health. Recommending these harsh methods of getting rid of gallstones to people who don't even have gallstones is rather silly and potentially harmful.

[Arky]

Quite clearly, you didn't even read my post properly, or the material in the thread I linked to. Stone-breaking herbs are NOT the same thing as liver flushing.

[aviatrix79]

Quite clearly, you didn't even read my post properly, or the material in the thread I linked to. Stone-breaking herbs are NOT the same thing as liver flushing.

I read and understood your post. You suggested stone-breaking herbs to be used as a stepping stone towards a liver flush. But why? What makes you believe everyone needs a liver flush? Clearly, you didn't read my post. I was responding to you claiming that "almost ALL of us live in an environment that, cumulatively, over a lifetime, challenges the liver." Even if that were true, that is not true in a forum of people consuming 100% or close to 100% raw food. A liver flush is not needed for everyone and can be harmful to some. Your initial post said this:

You haven't even mentioned cleansing your bowel or cleansing your liver & gallbladder. Unless you cleanse all these organs, no amount of nutrition will solve your acne issue.

What makes you think that a raw diet and good nutrition doesn't in itself 'fix' the bowel, liver and gallbladder. The word "cleansing" is a silly word to use when talking of the bowel, liver and gallbladder because their functions is dealing with... crap lol. They will never be clean and should never be clean. And while I'm quoting you, you also wrote this:

Candida is normally kept at negligible levels by a healthily-functioning immune system.

Not really as the greatest symptoms of having Candida (once in the blood stream) are caused from the healthy-functioning immune system and one gets auto-immune diseases as a result. One of the major causes of Candida is sugar AND too much fiber. When fiber ferments, some of the byproducts are ethanol and lactic acid and this causes constipation and destroys good bacteria, which in turn destroys mucus membranes, which in turn strains and damages your digestive system as a whole, including your liver. Digestion is a very complicated system and it won't be magically fixed with a 'liver cleanse'. It will be fixed with a balanced, nutritional diet.

[tolondontoparis]

You're welcome :) Yeah I personally wouldn't recommend the liver flush. As for candida, mushrooms are fine, in fact, it will help eliminate candida as they're both different types of fungi. It's the same as good bacteria and bad bacteria. Having more good bacteria competes and helps keep bad bacteria under control. Candida is a natural part of us but when it gets out of control, that's when it becomes a problem. If you do have candida, that could also be a contributing factor to your acne. Candida, like Helicobactus Pilori, burrows through the intestinal walls and causes leaky gut. Then all sorts of crap gets into the bloodstream and the body responds trying to eliminate the toxins, including through the skin. You also get inflammatory disorders throughout your body. If you do have candida, that's another reason to reduce sugars and also have coconut oil and raw garlic. Start off with small amounts (because the die off effect can be quite harsh) and slowly increase the amount to say 2 tablespoons of coconut oil a day and to whatever garlic you can cope with (or others cope with lol). If you do have candida, take l-glutamine to help heal the intestinal lining. It's quite expensive on it's own but you may be able to find a multivitamin that includes l-glutamine in it. Cabbage juice is a good source of it too.

I love how much you know! You're a comforting voice! Cabbage juice for the win! And yay for mushrooms! I am sitting outside right now with my computer and AP Psych book getting my V-D! YAY!!!!!!! I shall friend you!

I drink a lot of Kombucha too! I need to balance it with water intake though!

[aviatrix79]

Glad to share the knowlege, it's why I pop in :)

Also you can absorb vitamin D through the eyes.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james4.htm

If you can, get under a tree and stare at the sun, (filtered through the leaves) for five minutes. You'll absorb more that way than through the skin.

[tolondontoparis]

Go Raw! Go Raw! Go RAW! Wooottttttttt! A goddess of knowledge!

[tolondontoparis]

Glad to share the knowlege, it's why I pop in :)

Also you can absorb vitamin D through the eyes.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james4.htm

If you can, get under a tree and stare at the sun, (filtered through the leaves) for five minutes. You'll absorb more that way than through the skin.

Oh my goshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Going outside now!

With My Cucumber apple juice, mmmmm!

[aviatrix79]

Oh my goshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Going outside now!

With My Cucumber apple juice, mmmmm!

lol have fun! I will leave you with one last Vit D tip before I turn in for the night (I'm in Australia)... Before you eat your mushrooms, pop them upside down in the sun for five mintues and then eat them raw. They also absorb Vitamind D so you'll get a lot more Vit D2 by sunbaking them.

Nighty night :)

[Arky]

You clearly have a chip on your shoulder, aviatrix, but why you feel compelled to be obnoxious towards me by willfully misinterpreting my words and criticising the results of those misinterpretations is beyond me.'Ctrl-f' to search this thread for the word 'flush'. Tell me where I promoted liver 'flushing'. To answer your question about 'what makes me think raw diet and good nutrition itself don't fix the bowel, liver & gallbladder', the answer is this:*Personal experience *The fact that herbalism exists should indicate that food and nutrition isn't always sufficient to rectify all health conditions. You've also willfully misinterpreted my remarks about candida, by switching to talk about symptoms, which is not what I had been talking about. If you suppress or derange immune function (as in the case of heavy metals such as mercury) then a wide variety of opportunistic entities can potentially flourish. What may happen someway down the line does not negate what preceded it. I have no desire to argue with anyone here. Therefore, please leave me out of your axe-grinding. Thankyou

[aviatrix79]

You clearly have a chip on your shoulder, aviatrix, but why you feel compelled to be obnoxious towards me by willfully misinterpreting my words and criticising the results of those misinterpretations is beyond me.'Ctrl-f' to search this thread for the word 'flush'. Tell me where I promoted liver 'flushing'. To answer your question about 'what makes me think raw diet and good nutrition itself don't fix the bowel, liver & gallbladder', the answer is this:*Personal experience *The fact that herbalism exists should indicate that food and nutrition isn't always sufficient to rectify all health conditions. You've also willfully misinterpreted my remarks about candida, by switching to talk about symptoms, which is not what I had been talking about. If you suppress or derange immune function (as in the case of heavy metals such as mercury) then a wide variety of opportunistic entities can potentially flourish. What may happen someway down the line does not negate what preceded it. I have no desire to argue with anyone here. Therefore, please leave me out of your axe-grinding. Thankyou

Lol I was about to hit the sack and this popped up on email. I don’t have a chip on my shoulder. Seems like you just don’t like anyone disagreeing with you. I’m not misinterpreting your words. “Liver flush”, “liver cleanse”, come on, it’s all the same thing isn’t it? I already wrote in my previous post (which you responded to) that I don’t like using the word “cleanse” when talking of the bowels, liver or gallbladder. Did you conveniently skip that bit before getting your back up?

As for your personal experience, I am also using personal experience as well as many many years on raw... well before this website or even the book was written. I’m also well read on nutrition and biology and they’ve been an interest to me since childhood. Aside from being well read, I've also gained a lot of knowledge from Naturopaths.

The fact that herbalism exists should indicate that food and nutrition isn't always sufficient to rectify all health conditions.

What lol? You are kidding, right? The fact that herbalism exists should indicate that food and nutrition IS sufficient to rectify health conditions because herbs are food, are they not? Herbs provide us with dense nutrients and natural, edible medicinal properties.

Now about the Candida remark. I did not switch anything. You claimed that Candida is kept under check by a healthy immune system. You obviously didn’t understand my response. It has nothing to do with one’s immune system, but more about one’s diet and the balance between the good stuff and the bad and the condition of the lining of your gut. A good immune system doesn’t help the effects of Candida. Candida itself doesn’t cause as much havoc in our body as much as the havoc caused by our immune system trying to kill it when it’s in the blood stream. That was my point. The body attacks itself and it’s organs trying to kill the Candida and as a result one ends up with an auto immune disorder. What I was explaining is that an unhealthy immune system is not the cause of Candida but too much sugar, carbs and fiber, a lack of good bacteria and an unhealthy gut is the cause of it, as well as other things like antibiotics, NSAIDs etc. To get rid of Candida, one need to change their diet and heal the leaky gut.

I have no desire to argue with anyone here

You came in this thread arguing your point, didn’t you? This is a forum is it not? You laid down your opinion and I laid down mine. You don’t have to agree with mine but if you’re prepared to write something in a forum you should be able to accept opinions that differ from yours without getting defensive. I have nothing against you, I just didn’t agree with your opinion(s) in this thread. If you can’t handle that then maybe you should be the one to leave yourself out of the "axe-grinding" Thank you :)

[Arky]

What follows is not meant argumentatively, OK? I think we've been talking at crossed-purposes in the past couple of posts. That you and I are both longtime fans of natural healing is abundantly obvious, and, if we can just rewind a little and de-escalate this exchange, perhaps we can find some common ground.

Just to clear a few things up, now I finally have access to a proper PC rather than the limitations of my touchscreen phone:

“Liver flush”, “liver cleanse”, come on, it’s all the same thing isn’t it?

No, with respect, it's not 'all the same thing'. If you read the link I posted, you'll see I go into great detail on different ways of cleansing the liver (and I freely admit there's plenty more that I didn't include in that thread). In that thread, I point out risks of liver 'flushing'. On this particular point, you and I agree - liver flushing can be a risky and potentially detrimental thing to do. I know that all too well, as someone who has long suffered with a partial obstruction of the common bile duct. Please understand that I am not promoting flushing. I am simply saying that the use of stone-breaking herbs can be a very useful thing for someone trying to eliminate old deposits from the hepato-biliary system. Not essential for everyone, but nonetheless frequently useful. These herbs are generally very safe and act not just upon calcified stones but also upon cholesterol deposits. Some of them are even protective of hepatic function. No flushing required, just patience :)

I already wrote in my previous post (which you responded to) that I don’t like using the word “cleanse” when talking of the bowels, liver or gallbladder. Did you conveniently skip that bit before getting your back up?

OK, so you don't like the word 'Cleanse', but that doesn't mean that it isn't relevant in such discussions; it's just a personal opinion on your part that you happen to dislike the word. There's a distinction between superficially 'cleansing' organs and cleansing them on a deeper level. There is, indeed, a lot of nonsense commonly perpetuated in the superficial alternative health scene. Again, I think you and I (in a roundabout way) agree on this. I wrote a bit about some of this popular nonsense in this thread:

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthrea...719#post655719

As for your personal experience, I am also using personal experience as well as many many years on raw.

(Again, I'm not being argumentative here, please believe me) - this merely establishes that you have improved your health using (in so much as I understand you) diet and nutrition alone. I recognise the profound power of this approach, and I'm happy for you. However, it isn't necessarily powerful enough on it's own for everyone. And here's a point I think is very important - many people who are drawn to explore raw foods do so because they have some existing health issue(s) that they are hopeful dietary changes will heal. Thus, they may not have been eating a healthy diet for many years - some of them are very sick. In my situation, for example, I have longterm declining health, and this drew me to explore raw foods, amongst other healing modalities. I didn't come to raw foods via ideology, as some do. My particular issues include hepato-biliary issues and heavy metal intoxication. These will not resolve with food alone, no matter how nutritious.

What lol? You are kidding, right? The fact that herbalism exists should indicate that food and nutrition IS sufficient to rectify health conditions because herbs are food, are they not? Herbs provide us with dense nutrients and natural, edible medicinal properties.

LOL we're actually talking about the same coin from different angles. My remark was on the basis of drawing an (admittedly blurred) distinction between what are popularly referred to as 'culinary' and as 'medicinal' herbs. I do concede that yes, these distinctions involve a great deal of overlap, hence the difference in each of our remarks.

Now about the Candida remark. I did not switch anything. You claimed that Candida is kept under check by a healthy immune system.

I meant in a person without existing candida overgrowth, whereas it appears you are referring to someone who already has an issue with it, and yes, of course, a cascade of problems can develop over time. Although candidiasis is not something I specifically suffer with, I nonetheless understand systemic inflammation, due to heavy metal intoxication messing up my hepato-biliary function, with resulting cascade effects upon the immune system, and it is a self-compounding and very unpleasant state of affairs.

You obviously didn’t understand my response. It has nothing to do with one’s immune system, but more about one’s diet and the balance between the good stuff and the bad and the condition of the lining of your gut. A good immune system doesn’t help the effects of Candida. Candida itself doesn’t cause as much havoc in our body as much as the havoc caused by our immune system trying to kill it when it’s in the blood stream. That was my point. The body attacks itself and it’s organs trying to kill the Candida and as a result one ends up with an auto immune disorder. What I was explaining is that an unhealthy immune system is not the cause of Candida but too much sugar, carbs and fiber, a lack of good bacteria and an unhealthy gut is the cause of it, as well as other things like antibiotics, NSAIDs etc. To get rid of Candida, one need to change their diet and heal the leaky gut.

On this, we'll have to partially disagree. I believe candidiasis is very much related to immune function. but that's cool; we can disagree.

You came in this thread arguing your point, didn’t you? This is a forum is it not? You laid down your opinion and I laid down mine. You don’t have to agree with mine but if you’re prepared to write something in a forum you should be able to accept opinions that differ from yours without getting defensive. I have nothing against you, I just didn’t agree with your opinion(s) in this thread. If you can’t handle that then maybe you should be the one to leave yourself out of the "axe-grinding" Thank you :)

I have no problem with anyone holding different opinions from my own - what I disliked was your seeming determination to interpret my words in a way which suited you for the purposes of disagreement. However, I recognise the limitations of text-based communication, since the lack of vocal inflection and facial expression etc. can lead to unintended variations in how others interpret what was originally intended. This post is typed in a spirit of conciliation, so I hope we can put that behind us now.

Peace.