Neural-Degeneration and Fruit Fueled Evolution

[Hagbard Celine]

This short pictorial explains the general theory if you didn't want to read :)

http://leftinthedark.org.uk/sites/de...0version_0.pdf

[Hagbard Celine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci0hI_Zk-2I

this new video explains the general theory in a nut shell

[aviatrix79]

Although I don’t agree with the Hagbard's opinion about suggesting we should be 100% fruit eaters, this is one of the most interesting topics raised in this forum... that I’ve come across anyway. I’m really surprised that more people here haven’t chipped in to discuss it extensively. Evolution, in my opinion is one of biggest factors that we should consider when deciding on the foods we ‘should’ be eating. Not just the evolution of our brain but our body as a whole... the evolution of our teeth for example is a big indication of the types of foods we ate as we evolved and it’s the addition of foods along side with fruits introduced into our diets that has contributed to our evolution. Our brain size didn’t increase dramatically because we ate fruit. If this was the case we’d be still be chimps living in the jungle, eating fruits and nitpicking off each other’s backs. Our brain size has increased because we moved away from being 100% frugivores. Our teeth evolved from predominately being small round molars to large rather flat ones and other teeth including large incisors and canines that can shred through veins in leaves, break down seeds and crack open nuts. We further evolved and began hunting, eating non-vegan foods which I’m not allowed to discuss here. This is why our brains have developed from a hominid of about 400g to the size of the human brain it is today... about 1.4kg (from memory). Suggesting that we should be 100% frugivores to keep increasing brain size does not make sense at all. We have evolved to eat a variety of foods that we physically could not eat before. I don’t know about anyone else but I’m quite content with my hairless back lol. Although fruits are still an essential part of our diets and sugar is essential for brain function, a diet on fruit alone has serious health consequences as it’s lacking many other nutrients required for bodily functions including brain function. B12 deficiency for example, left untreated can eventually cause damage to nerve endings and eventual brain damage. We have evolved for a reason and should remember that our environment evolved along with us. The fruits today are not the fruits that we were eating as our hairy friends. The soil today is not the soil that it was back then either. The soil today is depleted of nutrients and so we need to acquire our nutrients from a range of sources. We have evolved to eat other things and thus our body functions and behaviours have evolved as well. To Hagbard, I can understand how great you would feel and how you feel like you’ve awakened parts of your brain by switching to 100% fruit but that is because you've switched from a typical poor western diet to one of only fruit. Your body is detoxing along with your brain and that’s great for a while but long term we need to feed our bodies and brains with all the essential nutrients we have evolved to require. A diet on fruit alone is not a good one but it’s still better than a ‘SAD’ diet. Eventually though you’ll need more than fruit and you’ll probably realise this on your own when you start developing nutritional deficiencies and symptoms you never had before. I’m not 100% raw. I’m not even 100% vegan and never intend to be but my diet is 100% nutritious and raw vegan food plays a massive part of it. I’d like to discuss other parts of my diet but I have to respect the wishes of the owners of this site and when it boils down to it, anyone switching from a crappy typical western diet to a more nutritious one has my support. Being a frugivore is not a good idea long term but when you’re transitioning to a healthy diet, it’s a great start. Getting back to basics can be what someone needs to retrain themselves to eat right and eliminate bad habits. We just don’t want to be so basic that we turn back into chimps

[Revvell]

We all know that we originated in Africa where our hairy, big brained, fruit eating cousins still hang..

Heckuva assumption. So, if we watch those hairy, big brained, fruit eating cousins long enough, we'll see them turn into humans? And what did these hairy, big-brained, fruit-eating cousins evolve from? Sounds as though everything evolved from everything ~ or something.

[snoops]

Are you saying you dispute the theory of evolution Rev?

[Aleesha Sattva]

This thread is re-opened.

in light,
Aleesha
Admin

[Revvell]

Are you saying you dispute the theory of evolution Rev?

Nooooo.... just have no clue! BUT, if there were some hairy, big-brained, fruit eaters near me, I'd sit and watch and see if they turn into humans. ;)

[sport]

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/5...-use-unearthed
This may have had some effect on our recent mental slowdown.

[Hagbard Celine]

Interesting. I think i saw that a couple days ago

That certainly gives support to the idea that we were far more intelligent in the distant past than most scientists would like to admit. The odd thing is that articles on this discovery go on to basically say fire, and therefore cooked food, fueled evolution- however they only infer this in a very vague sense and never describe how it would possibly do it. We don't even know for sure what they used the fire for, it could merely have been to stay warm.

The biology behind the cooked food/meat proposal makes no sense either, and if you take the theory proposed in this thread on board this evidence does actually fit. It doesn't refute the fact that we find evidence of pre-humans eating other foods, but there was obviously a main group of us that stayed in the forests in connection with the symbiosis, and often groups would fan out into other areas for various reasons. So using this as some sort of proof that cooked food became essential to humans during that time period is pretty inaccurate and 'cherry-picking', not to mention it was found in the far south of africa!

Although i guess theres no point in getting into this on a raw food forum :) lol

[sport]

I think that there is some sense in the theory that cooking speed-ed up evolution because eating cooked meat enabled people to get their calories in more quickly and so left time to do non food things which gave rise to culture. It also meant that they sat around the fire eating and so learned to communicate better.
It does not mean that it speed-ed up the physical aspect of it.

[fastfreedom]

I used to think that humans were "dumb" years ago. It was the type of teachings and general suggestion that I got in my history classes back in high school. Then I recall a brief mention of a "computer" that was created thousands of years ago. But it was basically an intricate geared type clock that tracked the moon star cycles.

Now-a-days I believe that history teachers and just everyone in general really don't really know our past. We make assumptions, IMO. I don't even believe that the equipment used to date artifacts is accurate. How could anyone really know that a machine is accurate at guessing that something was created 1million years ago.

My belief and my gut feeling tells me that we were much much more advanced years ago than we are today. I believe that we had great technologies, but also they were in accordance with needs instead of mere wants of consumption.

I have a hard time believing scientists that wanna write papers saying that cooking food made us "smarter" and more "advanced". There's proof today showing how cooked food makes certain parts of your brain wither. I think it's the pineal gland that I'm recalling. Also reading the works of Dr. Pottenger, "Pottenger's Cats", shows even more evidence of the degradation and break down of the physical after generations of consuming cooked foods. There's also evidence of people having mental disorders that overcome them after switching their lifestyle/eating habits to raw plant foods. For me that's proof enough that our society is going backwards because of the cooked foods that are common around the vast majority of the population.

Just because I can hop onto this mechanical/electronic wonder we call a computer leads many to believe that we are far more technically advanced than any other time in our past. But what about being able to communicate just as effectively without all these electronics and instead using just the power of our brains. To me the psychic functions of ourselves are more advanced than everything that we today would call advanced which requires something physical outside ourselves such as machines and electronics. I believe that everything today that modern society calls advanced is a pale comparasion of what we as humans at our full potential are fully capable of, and the current technologies are a tiny fractional copy of what we can do using our own brains.

I really like this thread because we can begin to speak about opening up our higher functions and I believe that eating a clean diet and releasing all our generational accumulation of toxins is the beginning of the path to get there. I really hope I don't offend anyone by what/how I've said anything, and hope I don't get this thread to become closed again. But if all this gets edited I can see that most still aren't ready for where I believe we are going, and I fully understand it. Though I hope that we can speak of this stuff and perhaps get a little leeway because this excites me to see that more and more people are eating raw foods and experiencing an increase in vibrations because of it. Even if those subtle increase in vibrations begin with an ever increasing notice that "you" are smiling more and more everyday, and you begin to be drawn to upbeat people everywhere you now go. My signature line sums it up nicely.....living in a world of wonder and peace and abundance, because as I'm sure most of you all know.......eating raw foods makes you feel goooood and very alive. ;-)

Good day to everyone.....time to go play in the garden. Woohooo, it's spring. :-)

[Hagbard Celine]

nice post fastfreedom! Have you read the book yet then?

For those still a bit confused, i apologize. Its hard for me to explain all of this without overcomplexifying it!

The basics are really very simple though. Food fuels and build our bodies. The chemicals in fruit alter how the DNA is read, which is a process called transcription, and it is this very process that goes about building our bodies and brains. So if you drastically change the build/fuel materials of the body and brain, the functionality will definitely change as a result.

there is a pictorial explanation at the very bottom of this page which simplifies all this (the article itself is a good read! but it might be a bit dense for some)

symbiotic evolution

And if anyone would like to help pre-order the authors new books and help this research hit the mainstream help out they're new book project.

http://www.indiegogo.com/Make-up-your-own-mind

If this weren't somewhat true then there would be NO evidence..but alas, there is a ton! Simply bringing this mountain of evidence to mainstream attention would be enough to initiate a dramatic change in how humans relate to each other and the world..Many of our problems would halt overnight if we all found out there is a problem with the development of our brain, which is nobodies fault. And that this is the root cause of all of our collectively insane behavior

[aviatrix79]

I doubt that cooked food played as much of a major role in the evolution of brain size and intelligence as much as fresh raw non-vegan foods did. However this is a raw vegan site that doesn't allow the freedom to discuss anything but raw vegan food, making this thread pretty pointless.

[Hagbard Celine]

I doubt that cooked food played as much of a major role in the evolution of brain size and intelligence as much as fresh raw non-vegan foods did. However this is a raw vegan site that doesn't allow the freedom to discuss anything but raw vegan food, making this thread pretty pointless.

I don't see how that makes the thread pointless. There is tons of evidence for this if you actually look into it before refuting. And neither i, nor the book, ever suggested anywhere that we were 100% frugivores as you kept claiming, and i personally don't eat only fruit..And not all fruitarians have nutritional deficiencies anyway- check out the ones who've been that way for years and have the blood tests to prove it. Anyways, thats off topic. Back on!

Citing orthodox data, as you did in your other post, to refute a new interpretation without comparing the two interpretations side by side, isn't going to get us anywhere. "Our brain size didn’t increase dramatically because we ate fruit. If this was the case we’d be still be chimps living in the jungle, eating fruits and nitpicking off each other’s backs." Would like like to address the biological mechanisms proposed? Because this is basic high school level bio-chemistry and the impact of flooding our systems with this chemistry for millions of years would have is pretty well evidenced and straightforward at its foundation. You don't seem to have gotten but a very vague and general gist of the theory because this quote doesn't really make any sense once you look into it..regardless of the theory it the idea that fruit fueled neural expansion wouldn't be refuted b the existence of other primates still in the jungles, actually the fact that other primates live there eating higher amounts of plants than us and have bigger brains than most mammals supports the case. But i'd love to debate more once you research a bit

[aviatrix79]

lol what makes you assume that I haven't researched this topic extensively? My point was that I cannot debate because I am not allowed to discuss the other side of the argument, hence making this debate useless because there is no debate. This is not a site where we are given the freedom to debate topics such as these as I (or others) cannot point out or link to sites or even discuss foods that aren't raw vegan. Debating these topics in this thread or on this entire site is a complete waste of time. I don't have anything against the rules of this site. Any arguement debating the other side will be wiped out so what's the point? The rules were set up for a reason... to support a book. This site isn't even about health. It's about raising revenue, so not only is this thread useless, this entire site is pretty useless... to me anyway.