Chemical Toxicity etc?

[Davylp25]

Is anyone familiar with Chemical Toxicity? Treatments? I have found out that I have a Chemical Toxicity thats affecting my Autonomic Nervous System.. As well as creating a Domino effect affecting my Parotid Glands, Liver-Gall Bladder,Thyroid, Descending Colon, Adrenals, Prostate... So Im curious if anyone knows of treatments, cleansing these organs has helped but because of this chemical interference, it's making it hard. I know nothing about this and am researching it now. Was told it can be treated, I know it sounds bad.. But this was a free consult and tests. So I couldnt extract all info...

Also could have Metal Toxicity Mercury, Chromium, Arsenic, Zinc. Confused about the whole Zinc and Chromium... Am I not absorbing? I only have 2 tiny Mercury fillings from Childhood, ones a speck, but I get it can still cause reactions. Working on removing them. I know about metal removal, toxicity what to do, to test for to make sure you have it. But I dont know how to what where to test for Chemical Toxicity, It's like causing the reaction and hence causing these metals to be stored...

Anyone have info on Chemical Toxicity?

[Arky]

Hmmm... with respect, this sounds rather ambiguous. You're clearly intelligent and familiar with a number of aspects relating to various health issues, but what I mean is that, it is very unclear how your diagnosis of 'chemical toxicity' has been arrived at - what testing was done to ascertain this?

Just for a moment putting the 'chemical' toxicity diagnosis to one side...

In terms of amalgam toxicity, I wonder if you are aware that, in some people (I am one such person), mercury can lead to derangement of mineral transport. Basically, thousands of the bodys processes depend on enzymes for their catalysation. Many of these enzymes themselves depend upon certain metals in order to operate correctly. Mercury is so insidious in its disruptive abilities within the human organism that it is able to 'displace' essential metals from enzyme systems and thus derange or inhibit their intended actions.

Consequently, as well as giving rise to a truly staggering array of potential health issues and symptoms (which vary from patient to patient), mercury can derange particular enzyme processes in such a way as to:

1) displace other metals, as has already been said

2) inhibit the ability of the bodys cells to excrete various metals (thus increasing the likelihood of them building up to toxic levels, over time)

3) inhibit the ability of the bodys cells to transport various metals around the body to required destinations

4) inhibit the ability of the body to retain certain metals, due to a combination of displacement and transport derangement


Now bear in mind that if (if) mercury is deranging metal/ mineral transport in the cells of your body, then readings of metals (including zinc and chromium) are very difficult to accurately identify. In fact, so much is this so that it is actually very common for mercury-intoxicated people to receive hair analyses that show not only wildly high and wildly-low readings of certain metals, but also to show a low mercury reading! Thus, it requires very skilled interpretation, instead of simply reading metal results literally, to actually recognise a characteristic pattern of readings for various metals which are indirectly indicative of derangement of mineral/metal transport and thus imply mercury toxicity, and, by extension, lead the skilled interpreter to understand that the readings for individual metals are therefore not to be trusted as they appear on the chart. Chelate for mercury under such circumstances, and, eventually, the remaining metals, when re-tested, tend to come back into healthy ranges (they may or may not have been healthy all along, because mercury may have been actually deranging their true levels within the body or may simply have been deranging their transport around the body, and thus skewing readings in the sample sent to the lab for analysis).


Mercury also makes itself quite at home in many of the organs of the body, often interfering with functioning of each of the cells within each organ, and also deranging the organs' function by virtue of the fact that mercury is attracted to the central nervous system (ethyl-mercury and methyl-mercury, for example, easily cross the blood-brain barrier). Once in the CNS, mercury is nasty, nasty stuff. It's a highly potent neurotoxin. Classic mercury symptoms include suppression of the immune system, the endocrine system, or both.


Thus, whilst I certainly am not discounting the possibility of chemical influence in your particular case, it is worth knowing that mercury is absolutely capable of giving rise to the scenario you have described (yes, every one of the different organs you've mentioned is vulnerable to the effects of mercury and is not safe from its reach), without any toxic chemical contribution being necessary. Undesirable heavy metals will store in the body of a metal-intoxicated person for one or more of a variety of reasons. For example:

* it is known that some people have a genetic predisposition to poorly excrete the likes of copper, lead, or mercury

* heavy metals are able to cross the placenta and thus some unfortunate people are metal-intoxicated from Day-1, without any environmental exposure being necessary.

* In a healthy person, mercury (and copper) tends to be primarily excreted via the liver and biliary system. However, if one is exposed to some agent (as you yourself have mentioned), which is sufficiently potent to overwhelm the detoxification efforts of the liver at some point in a person's life, then, if a source of heavy metals is readily available (as may be the case with mercury dental amalgams), the liver may not have an opportunity to recover quickly enough in order to prevent commencement of accumulation of heavy metals due to the period of poor excretion. Alternatively, if one is simply continually exposed (again, as may be the case with dental amalgams), then the livers continual attempts to excrete the mercury may lead to gradual exhaustion of the biliary system and/or its essential chemical partners (eg taurine, glycine, phosphatydyl choline, all of which contribute to bile), again leading to a health-damaging accumulation in the longrun. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture - there are a myriad of possible ways in which heavy metals may gain a problematic foothold in the body, from seemingly innocuous beginnings.


Can you provide more details of what testing you received?
To be honest, if the testing was 'free', it makes me question it's potential accuracy, at least initially, hence my curiosity about what testing was performed. I want to be clear that I'm not saying I think the conclusion about chemical toxicity necessarily is wrong, and I certainly don't mean to give the impression that simply because I've discussed heavy metal issues a fair bit on the forum, lately, that I'm convinced it applies to everyone - of course it doesn't.

ALL I'm saying is that, on the basis of your brief opening post here, I'm not yet convinced of the conclusion of chemical toxicity, because with dental amalgams, you most certainly have sufficient 'ingredients' to create your reported health issues, with no need of chemical influences to land you where you now find yourself.


Just to reassure you, on the possible heavy-metal side of things - mercury is very nasty stuff indeed, but it is treatable. I'm in the early stages of treatment myself, right now.



BTW, I imagine you've already noticed these recent discussions on the forum, but just in case you haven't, they are relevant to our discussion:

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthrea...106#post661106

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthrea...325#post661325


I should also add that, to some degree, many systemic health issues can arise from undiagnosed dental infections - the bacteria which proliferate in dental abscesses and the like are shockingly pathogenic. However, judging by your stated symptoms, I suspect this is perhaps a little less likely than heavy metal toxicity, and/or perhaps chemical toxicity. Worth keeping in mind, all the same, though.


Just speaking personally, I've experienced suppression of pancreatic function, severe suppression/derangement of liver detoxification function, biliary insufficiency, long-term pain in the descending colon (particularly, but not limited to, the region of the caecum), IBS, adrenal exhaustion, suspected thyroid insufficiency (not actually diagnosed yet but my decades-long symptoms definitely fit the pattern), swelling of the prostate, floaters in the eyes, poor short-term memory, flickering of the left eyelid... - all, I now know, due to a common underlying cause of mercury-intoxication.

Therefore, whether your health symptoms are due to chemical intoxication, heavy metal intoxication, neither or both, you nonetheless have my sympathy. I've been through it (still am going through it).


All the best.


.

[Davylp25]

Hi..

The test was done via muscle testing. The protocol and details of what they do, I dont know ...Im not sure. But the result is what makes sense to me because I have tried everything under the sun, 7 years 100% raw... So Im willing to research this. I have already researched Mercury, done cleanses, infrared saunas, for 1 year, chlorella, cilantro, colonics, etc zeolites, clay baths. Too many things to list.... None of my symptoms got better... nothing changed. I understand mercury, but my fillings are so tiny - only 2, and they look like tiny specks. I will remove them. But my gut tells me it isnt it or the main issue.... So I want to find a test, to test for both. Via blood or urinary organic test to make 100%.

[streetsurfer]

Hi..

The test was done via muscle testing. The protocol and details of what they do, I dont know ...Im not sure. But the result is what makes sense to me because I have tried everything under the sun, 7 years 100% raw... So Im willing to research this. I have already researched Mercury, done cleanses, infrared saunas, for 1 year, chlorella, cilantro, colonics, etc zeolites, clay baths. Too many things to list.... None of my symptoms got better... nothing changed. I understand mercury, but my fillings are so tiny - only 2, and they look like tiny specks. I will remove them. But my gut tells me it isnt it or the main issue.... So I want to find a test, to test for both. Via blood or urinary organic test to make 100%.

Muscle testing while holding bottles of stuff near you? Sounds like applied kinesiology. I'd question the validity of such a free test as well.

There is a sort of "slight of hand" trick that can be applied by the tester to trick your muscle to be weaker when needed. I don't want to go as far as saying all A/K is suspicious. I do not believe in it though. If you were to have read up on it before the test, you might know what to watch for and then be able to detect it..... the muscle tricking part that is. I once had a test done on me and then went on to read about the testing method, which is when I found out about the trick to weaken your muscle response. As well, how do you know the same force was applied by the tester each time....seems like a very vague and inconclusive testing method to me. Maybe Arky disagrees with me, and it sounds like his opinion can be trusted based on his wealth of knowledge. I am sure he can advise more accurate testing if this is not one.

[Arky]

Muscle testing while holding bottles of stuff near you? Sounds like applied kinesiology. I'd question the validity of such a free test as well.

There is a sort of "slight of hand" trick that can be applied by the tester to trick your muscle to be weaker when needed. I don't want to go as far as saying all A/K is suspicious. I do not believe in it though. If you were to have read up on it before the test, you might know what to watchfor and then be able to detect it..... the muscle tricking part that is. As well, how do you know the same force was applied by the tester each time....seems like a very vague and inconclusive testing method to me.

Maybe Arky disagrees with me, and it sounds like his opinion can be trusted based on his wealth of knowledge. I am sure he can advise more accurate testing if this is not one.

No, I don't disagree with you on that.

I'm very much of the same opinion, actually - I've had AK done in my own case and although I'm willing to acknowledge there are things science does not fully understand, and thus AK may be accurate, I'm not personally convinced that it is, and the AK I had done gave results that I did not have any auto-immune issues (I now know that I do, owing to the mercury not only suppressing my immune system but also, paradoxically, increasing my immune system's propensity to respond to practically everything with inflammation). The AK also made zero indication of heavy metal toxicity.

Consequently, much though I'd like to believe in it, I'm 70% skeptical about AK at this time.

[Arky]

I have already researched Mercury, done cleanses, infrared saunas, for 1 year, chlorella, cilantro, colonics, etc zeolites, clay baths. Too many things to list.... None of my symptoms got better... nothing changed. I understand mercury, but my fillings are so tiny - only 2, and they look like tiny specks. I will remove them. But my gut tells me it isnt it or the main issue.... So I want to find a test, to test for both. Via blood or urinary organic test to make 100%.

Ahh, you've missed something profoundly critical in your research, but I'll come to that in a minute.

To tackle what you've mentioned:


Infrared saunas will not remove mercury to a sufficient degree from the body, and almost certainly not from the brain (though that is not to say saunas don't remove any heavy metals). For better or worse, the blood-brain barrier is always a tricky and potentially-divisive thing, where heavy metals are concerned.

Chlorella, contrary to popular belief and publicity, is not a particularly good chelator of heavy metals in it's non-live, powdered form. Only when it's a living plant is it a good chelator. Furthermore, chlorella contains very high levels of cysteine. Cysteine is a simple sulphur compound. See my discussion on MSM in relation to heavy metal toxicity to understand why simple sulphur substances (those with only single sulfhydryl groups) are not a wise thing to consume if one has heavy metals in their system.

Colonics - I take no particular issue with colonics but they won't help to any significant degree for anyone with heavy metal toxicity, though they may help lessen the (non-metal-related) detoxification burden on the liver if one happens to have a lot of putrefaction occurring in the bowel, which can happen if one is constipated, and, it is fair to acknowledge that if one is heavy metal intoxicated, one may be experiencing biliary insufficiency, as I described in the first reply to this post. Biliary insufficiency means insufficient natural stimulation of bowel function, and thus likely constipation symptoms.

Zeolites are not absorbed systemically and thus have no opportunity to remove heavy metals from anywhere other than, perhaps, the intestines and bowel.



But here's the crux of the situation:

Cilantro - ouch! You're not going to like this, but cilantro is a very, VERY bad idea for someone who has mercury dental amalgams. It is absolutely 100% critical, no exceptions, for anyone who wishes to chelate, that they FIRST have ALL amalgams removed from their teeth. I cannot stress this enough! It is positively dangerous to ingest (or inject) chelation substances whilst there is still a known source/reservoir of mercury within the body (even the tiniest of specs of amalgam is, neurotoxicologically-speaking capable of giving rise to great harm - just think how microscopically-small a neuron is). What may very likely happen in such circumstances is that sulfhydryl groups in the chelation substances may remove molecules of mercury from the amalgam(s) and redistribute them elsewhere in the body, causing great damage and further decline in health. I'm not telling you this to scare you, I'm telling you this because here you are now, and I don't want you to experience further decline. Cilantro is particularly dangerous for someone who has dental amalgams in situ, because cilantro is able to facilitate the passage of mercury across the blood-brain barrier - thus, where cilantro is concerned, the aforementioned risk of redistribution of mercury applies not only to organs such as the thyroid, pancreas, liver etc., but also to the CNS and brain.

Consequently, I am now not surprised you have continued to experience no improvement in your symptoms, if you have amalgams and have been consuming cilantro. Still, the main thing is that you have made it through that relatively unscathed, and can now move forwards, safely and constructively.


Please read the two threads I linked to earlier and we can chat thereafter, if that's ok with you.

In terms of testing, from the heavy metal side of things, at least, then urine and blood are not ideal - hair testing isn't perfect either but it's the best compromise and provides usable results if interpreted skilfully (see the works of Andrew Hall Cutler for more on this, and I've discussed plenty about him in those other two threads).


KD Ironside's personal experiences with mercury and cilantro can be read here:

whatidontknow.net/blog/playing-with-fire/

(note that KD and I both follow the same chelation protocol, by Andrew Hall Cutler. As I mentioned in one of the other linked threads, this isn't a case of 'choosing a chelation 'guru' ', or any such juvenile nonsense, it's simply a matter of understanding that chelation is a very serious business, fraught with pitfalls if not done in a scientifically-sound manner. The reason Andy Cutler has a following is because he is one of the very few people who actually has the required depth of scientific and chemistry-specific training to enable him to truly understand the effects of a substance in the body, and on a molecular level. There are a great number of amateurs and/or charlatans in the arena of heavy metals chelation, just as in any other area of health, so one has to be very careful).



As far as chemical testing goes, that lies outside my current knowledge as I've never (yet) been faced with going through it personally. I understand your eagerness to get some sort of chemical testing done but it's such a specialist area that I really think you would be wise to consult with a qualified toxicologist. The number of possible chemical substances one might be exposed to in modern society runs into the hundreds of thousands. For practical purposes, heavy metals, on the other hand, number less than a hundred. Although heavy metal chelation is also a very specialist area, it is fortunate that it is getting ever-wider exposure (autism groups, dental amalgam patients, vaccine victims, genetic variations in excretion of heavy metals etc.). Consequently, books by the likes of Andy Cutler are shining a light onto this hitherto not-widely-understood subject. Whilst you are seeking more information on testing for chemical issues, I encourage you to go ahead and get a sample of hair analysed for heavy metal exposure. It's not expensive and will in no way hinder your ongoing research into chemical-related issues and testing. As I pointed out previously, whilst chemical toxicity may indeed prove to be a factor for you, your described symptoms are nonetheless entirely consistent with heavy metal intoxication alone, so heavy metal analysis is definitely indicated and appropriate.


Best of luck to you, and I'd be happy to hear from you at a later date, regarding how you get on.



.

[kaleboy]

try chlorella it will chelate out any heavy metal toxicity...

[Sugar Snap Pea]

Hmmmmmmmmm

[Sugar Snap Pea]

Very informative...

[Davylp25]

Okay thanks guys.... Again this is what happens when you leave a message on a message board.

Ugh, Not that it matters, but the person I went to had a month long waiting list to get in for a free CONSULT, because she was so highly experienced and recommended. It wasnt Ezmerelda with a crystal ball, just offering muscle testing like a girl with girl scout cookies.

I want to know, which TESTS are best 2 take 2 double check for both CHEMICAL AND METAL toxicity, because I have been through too much to just rely on muscle testing. My whole point may not have been properly written... It wasnt so do you believe or not in the validity of muscle testing... My point was I want to be 100% sure...

I'm trying to be 100% sure... Which tests? Has anyone else done this?

Im at a computer cafe so time is of the essence.

[Davylp25]

Ugh... Sorry for my last post... It kinda rrrreeeeeekss of anger. I just have been through soo much for the past 7 years.....So I hope I havent alienated Arky... Because I just found out more info, regular testing, Dr test. Magnesium - Zinc arent being absorbed. One of my mercury fillings fell out years ago, though it was a tiny one.. So I only have two one other speck, and a larger one... so 2 all together... But its effecting me. Which confused me, because my mother has a mouth full of mercury fillings, and she has none of my symptoms... weird...

So Mr Arky.. Im researching and trying to find something safe and in my budget to remove my fillings... Any advice? What to take? In the past as mentioned, I have eating tons of chlorella, cilantro.. nothing bad happened, but nothing good as well as far as my symptoms... Msm... nothing has effected me negatively if that makes sense... I just dont feel better.

So any advice, before and after removing the fillings? I will re read other posts... Im just confused... overwhelmed

Thanks

[MysticTree]

you know, I always thought Arky was female ... now you have thrown me into confusion!! lol

Male or female, Arky is very knowledgable and generous with the knowledge.

[Arky]

...I just found out more info, regular testing, Dr test. Magnesium - Zinc arent being absorbed.

Well, that's interesting - it so happens that Andy Cutler recommends certain fundamental supplements to support the body whilst one is chelating mercury from the body. In addition to vitamins C and E and molybdenum, the two primary minerals he recommends to supplement during chelation are...Magnesium and Zinc! Admittedly, DMSA is claimed (by VRP, at least) to chelate mercury, cadmium, lead and zinc, but it's interesting that you should specifically mention magnesium and zinc when they are specifically the two minerals Cutler most recommends to supplement during chelation rounds. Cutler describes zinc as being 'generally competitive with mercury and copper' (copper toxicity has many similar symptoms to mercury toxicity, and the two not uncommonly co-occur in heavy metal intoxicated patients). He goes on to mention that magnesium 'supports antioxidant activity' (remember that mercury is an extremely potent 'oxidation catalyst' - it increases the rate of generation of free radicals and thus increases cellular damage as a consequence). This is why, in addition to magnesium, it is recommended that anyone undergoing mercury chelation also supplement with Vitamin E (fat-soluble antioxidant) and Vitamin C (water-soluble antioxidant).

Whilst we're on the subject, may I ask what test the doctor performed in order to ascertain the conclusion that zinc and magnesium aren't being absorbed? Blood serum or some other method? Not trying to catch you out or anything, I'm just genuinely curious.

One of my mercury fillings fell out years ago, though it was a tiny one.. So I only have two one other speck, and a larger one... so 2 all together... But its effecting me. Which confused me, because my mother has a mouth full of mercury fillings, and she has none of my symptoms... weird...

It is known that there are genetic variations in ability to detoxify mercury from the body. Admittedly, you do share some of your mother's DNA, but also some of your father's, so it is quite reasonable to expect that you may not function, on a genetic level, precisely the same as your mother does.

Also, one's ability to detoxify mercury can also be affected by other factors, such as the general health of the liver and biliary system, general nutritional status, etc.

Whilst it may seem a little weird, I wouldn't get too hung up on your mother's apparent ability to handle mercury. Even with some shared genes, everyone's body is unique.

Im researching and trying to find something safe and in my budget to remove my fillings... Any advice? What to take? In the past as mentioned, I have eating tons of chlorella, cilantro.. nothing bad happened, but nothing good as well as far as my symptoms... Msm... nothing has effected me negatively if that makes sense... I just dont feel better.

Well, as discussed earlier, people vary in their sensitivity to mercury and also to food substances, herbs, and drugs.
When dealing with mercury, though, it is prudent to err on the side of safety because mercury is so mercilessly toxic to cells and especially to neural cells.

In my answer to you a couple of days ago, I remarked that it is positively dangerous to attempt to chelate mercury if you still have fillings, no matter how small or trivial you may consider them to be. Your cells are microscopic, so please don't underestimate the potential damage the mercury content of even a tiny speck of amalgam filling is able to cause to neural cells. Your brain is fragile and you've only been blessed with one for this life! Please don't get complacent, you were extremely fortunate not to have a bad experience with cilantro if you still have mercury amalgams in situ. I hope KD Ironside's blog provided evidence enough of the potential perils of cilantro for a mercury-intoxicated person.

If you attempt to chelate with amalgams still in your teeth, you run the risk of drawing mercury from the teeth and into the delicate cells and tissues of the body and the brain. You've already described to us that you are experiencing disruption of the endocrine system. Though I concede this isn't proof of mercury being present in your bodys cells, it strongly implies it as a serious possibility.

Consequently, if you are in need of chelation, then you will need to find a professional dentist specifically experienced in safe protocols for removal of dental amalgams. I absolutely do appreciate that dentistry can be expensive but you are fortunate that you only have two small fillings, so if you are wise, you'll save the necessary funds to have them removed safely.

Only after your dental amalgams have been professionally removed, then, can you go about chelating any mercury that may have been absorbed systemically into your body organs, tissues, and cells (possibly including the brain - mercury has an unfortunate affinity for the brain). Re-read my various recent posts on this forum for discussion on safe ways to chelate -i.e. Alpha Lipoic Acid, DMSA, DMPS. In order to learn the method (and it is VERY SPECIFIC) for safely using one or more of these chelation substances, you'll need to learn from Andy Cutler's books. Of course, this is your body, so I'm not seeking to dictate to you how to chelate or what substances to use, but I hope it will be apparent from my fairly detailed recent discussions here on RFT that there is a logical way to go about chelation and there are other more haphazard ways of going about chelating. The eventual decision on which path to take will be entirely up to you. The MSM thread, in particular, discussed many facets of this, towards the latter posts in that thread. Remember, I provided the thread links in my first answer to you, at the top of our thread here.

So any advice, before and after removing the fillings? I will re read other posts... Im just confused... overwhelmed

I thoroughly recommend you read Aine Ni Cheallaigh's book on this topic because it is a very frank account of her experience of mercury poisoning from dental amalgams, and her path of recovery. It'll be worth its weight in gold to you. Details here: http://mercurystories.com/stories/

I've corresponded a little with Aine and she's lovely; really genuine. She shares my outlook that using personal experience of hardships to help others is a good thing for all concerned.

You'll need to do your own research to get up to speed (Andy Cutler's books are fabulous for this; worth every single penny and more - get them at NoAmalgam.com, Amazon, or http://tinyurl.com/3rkoze4). Also highly relevant for you are Hal Huggins' books. If you sign up at oneradionetwork.com (free; no nonsense), you can listen to dentally-related interviews with Cutler, Huggins, and others).

And these other resources may also be helpful to you:

http://www.dams.cc/ (regarding safe removal of amalgams)

ww.mercurypoisoned.com/Safe_Removal_Amalgam_Fillings.pdf (regarding safe removal of amalgams)

tinyurl.com/432jkka (interview with Andy Cutler - this podcast is extremely relevant to your situation). (regarding safe method of chelation of mercury from the body, along with discussion on importance of removing amalgams properly before attempting to chelate mercury from the rest of the body)

http://tinyurl.com/3d9xz9q

you know, I always thought Arky was female ... now you have thrown me into confusion!! lol

Male. ;)


And thanks, MysticTree, I try to be helpful with what little knowledge I've picked up along my travels. One learns a little more every day, and I've never yet regretted 'paying it forward'...Always comes back to me in some way, somewhere down the line.


.

[Arky]

Here's another link regarding safe removal of your amalgams:

mercurypoisoned.com/protocol_iaomt.html


...And a little more on safety (or lack thereof) of food-based chelation substances:

http://whatidontknow.net/blog/for-billy/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/64260


.

[GreginND]

There really is no reliable method for testing general chemical burdens on the body that I am aware of. Do you have any idea what chemicals you suspect to be causing you symptoms? It may be possible to test for specific chemical entities and then address your exposure to those.

Since you have such broad symptoms affecting a number of organs I wonder if you have talked with your doctor about the possibility of a chronic autoimmune disease such as Lupus. Have you been tested for Lyme disease? Just some thoughts. You may have already pursued all the common possibilities.