Renounce And Enjoy

[RawVegRon]

I've been in enough AA, OA, VA, NA, and other twelve-step programs now that I finally believe that I could start my own 12-step program and deal with my own issues better than going to some one else's program. I've been in therapy groups long enough now that I feel that I might be able to take responsibility for my own therapy. I've been to enough churches and meditation centers that I now believe that I could start my own religion, and do a better job on my issues than having to rely on some of these churches out there to solve my problems. And I've also read enough self-help books to believe that I should write my own self-help book. I think this approach would probably be better than trying to find the right self-help book written by somebody else out there, in order to solve my own problems!

So. . . I'm beginning to write my own journal, which deals with my own raw recovery. I think there is probably a place on this site for such journals, but I have started my own Google discussion group, because I don't want to be censored, moderated, or booted for my ideas.

I hope some people on this group, and others, may be interested in how the 12 steps of AA might be applied to raw recovery, weight loss, and other such topics. If anyone is interested, I would appreciate a reply to this thread, an email off-line, or even a phone call at 206-548-4916.

Instead of going to twenty different support groups to deal with all my issues, I now believe that I need to start my own support group and find 5 or 6 like-minded friends with issues similar to mine to support my recovery.

Ron

[alicemagooey]

Good on you, Ron !!!

all the best in your new venture.!!

alice

[Veganforlife]

Sounds like you've just covered step one!

GR8!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RawVegRon]

Actually, Step One in Renounce And Enjoy (R&E) is a real dooozy!

"Admitted I'm powerless over the standard American diet (SAD) and the Western diet and sedentary lifestyle (WDSL)--in all its forms and guises--that my life is unmanagable."

That means I don't eat pizza, and I stay out of restaurants, coffee shops and bakeries for the same reason that I don't drink beer and I stay out of bars, taverns and casinos.

It's the same principle as AA, but it seems to be much more difficult. For one thing, I can find an AA meeting anytime, any day and I can call lots of people before I take a drink. Try finding some support for not eating pizza and staying out of bakeries!!!!!!

It's the same principle, however. I think it is simpler to renounce/abstain from addictions than it is to try to "have just one."

I'm doing fairly well on Step One, so far. My cravings for SAD seem to be slowly dying the longer I stay away from it. My cravings for alcohol are long gone, because I haven't had a drink in some 20+ months.

Ron

[alicemagooey]

Hi Ron.. wouldn't OA folks be helpful for those who want support in their desire to stay out of Pizzerias and Bakeries?

just wondering..!

once again, GO FOR THE GOLD ! You can do it.

alice

[RawHeaven]

I think this approach would probably be better than trying to find the right self-help book written by somebody else out there, in order to solve my own problems!

Right on Ron. Amen to that.

I find that over time the cravings for cooked food diminish in direct correlation to your own beliefs about yourself, your body and your health. For example, I was sitting in Chevy's one evening this week and I was happily able to drink water and watch the super humungous large portions of cooked food being served around us in complete fascination. It just simply did not look like food to me anymore and I used to eat some of those dishes. Mind you I was hungry, but it was sort of like it wasn't even an option to eat in there. My friend ordered some kind of "fresh" guacamole dish which was made in front of us that I decided was okay to try. But just as it was being served on the table the waiter sprinkled hordes of cheese on it!! hahaaa. LOL. I simply went back to my water and enjoyed catching up with my friend. I enjoyed a delicious green leafy salad and some raw delicacies when I got home. It's a great feeling to be neutral.

Best wishes with your site!

[Stina]

Okay, I'm curious. I can't figure out what VA is. Recovery has worked very well for me; I'll attest. It's transformed me into a healthy happy contributing citizen of society and now raw is really making my program glow. I'm in such a better position to help others. Raw has helped me to spiritually evolve; it was an important part of the puzzle, and I feel like I've covered the foundations of life: physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I could use some more support in the raw department, which is partly why I hang out here, but now I've moved to Portland Oregon and am optimistic I can find other raw people and do potlucks and the like. I've seriously considered going back to OA. It's not uncommon to see OA not work unfortunately. I'd like to go back into that fellowship and bring my raw strength. Blessings to you!

Oh. p.s. Random chuckle to ya.....there's actually 12 step recovery in southern California for people who are too beautiful...................

[dreamspinner]

Hi RVR

I just sent you an email. I have started an OA (overeaters anonymous) here in my little rural area town, because the nearest one was 1.5 hours away in each direction! It is doing quite well. The one good thing is it is based on the AA 12 step program. OA teaches us that everyone has their own specific food plan, one that works for them and no one is in judgement and only that they want to quit overeating compulsively. It is not a diet club nor a weights & measure or calorie counting club. It is a spiritual program.

I am beginning to get it and believe me it has been a rough and bumby road, everyday I keep trying brings me closer to the truth and that is we are all meant to be on a living foods lifestyle. I quit beating myself up over my failures to be 100% and continue to fine tune my lifestyle towards raw and living foods and to learn as much as I can by reading and experimenting and checking in here at Alissa's upon occassion. Which, I might add, is a great place to be for information, guidance and support.

Namaste'
dreamspinner

[dreamspinner]

I hope to hear from you. In fact I hope you will email me!

dreamspinner

[RawVegRon]

Alice,

I've had a strange experience with people in OA. For instance, I was just working with a man here in Seattle last week. He has 16 years of sobriety in AA and has lost 100 lbs. in OA. I thought he would make a good sponsor, but after working with him, I've decided "I don't want what he's got."

He has lost weight (from 350 lbs. to 250 lbs.) by eating less pizza and less chocolate cake! He eats "moderate hamburgers," etc., etc.,etc. I asked him if moderating on SAD foods wouldn't leave him with food cravings, and he said, "No"! He's the image of denial and irrational behavior. I fired him yesterday.

The thinking of most of the OA folks I know sounds like an alcoholic who goes to an AA meeting and says, "I've solved my drinking problem by only taking three, moderate drinks a day"! Well, when somebody like that comes to AA, we just laugh at them. An alcoholic can't do that successfully!

The thinking of some OA's I've met sounds like the guy who went to an AA meeting and said, "I've solved my drinking problems by learning how to weigh and measure my alcohol before I drink it. I have a scale and a measuring cup, and I weigh out 12 ozs. of beer for breakfast--and drink it out of a measuring cup. Then I weigh out 4 ozs. or wine for lunch and drink it out of the measuring cup. Then I weigh out 1 1/2 ozs. or whiskey for supper and drink it out of a measuring cup." Such a person would be treated as a fool in an AA meeting.

But this is exactly the kind of foolishness I hear in OA meetings--and people clap for them!!! The entire AA Big Book is a magnificent explanation of why moderation does not work.

The Four Noble Truths of Buddhism explain why only complete and permanent abstinence will put an end to cravings (cravings are the basic problem).

The OA approach uses self-will to overcome cravings--and they can only do that for so long, then the cravings get the better of them and they gain their weight back.

The best way--the only way that works--is to renounce SAD for good, and to make a complete and permanent change to RAW.

Ron

P.S.: What I say is my opinion. It is based on my experience. If you don't agree, please don't get upset. Try it for yourself. Go by your own experience.

[RawVegRon]

Hi, Stina,

I also feel the need for more support. I could use more of any and every kind of support I can get! Mental, physical, spiritual, financial, raw, etc.

I have also had that same unfortunate experience with OA that you have had. I have actually had OA people get angry with me for telling them that a peach has the right amount of salt, sugar, protein and fat in it and that they would not have to weigh and measure or count calories if they only ate raw, high-fiber foods like broccoli, peaches, pears, and a variety of fruits and veggies!

Personally, I have decided that OA is a support group for fat people who have given up and simply want support for being fat. They want to be accepted as they are, in my opinion, and to have their own social club.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth. But I will say that I have NEVER seen a person in OA that I would want to emulate!

Ron

[RawVegRon]

Hi Dreamspinner,

I was glad to receive your email. I answered it and explained that I've had computer problems for a few weeks now (a really mean virus, and a #103 error message when I try to send email), but I think these problems have been resolved. I also sent you an invitation to Renounce And Enjoy. I've noticed that you joined the group, but have not posted. Please feel free to ask questions, make suggestions or comments. One thing, however: R&E is not OA. R&E has no affiliation with OA. R&E is not an OA meeting. I strongly feel that the OA approach is "faulted." It did not work for me, and I have not seen anyone in OA that I thought I wanted to emulate.

Obviously, your experience with OA has been different. I will say, however, that if you feel that weighing and measuring; counting calories; moderating, managing and controling the SAD diet is your plan, then you probably would not want to waste your time with R&E. R&E is based on AA and the Buddhist Four Noble Truths. It is not a copy of OA. R&E is actually for "desperate people" who are willing to try the AA steps.

Everyone has the freedom and dignity of her own choice in this free country we live in. I am looking forward to hearing from you--but please don't talk to me about OA.

Ron

[RawVegRon]

Dreamspinner,

Did you receive the invitation I sent you?

Ron

[Stina]

Hey Ron! So, you're in Seattle huh? I'm in Portland, Oregon! We're practically neighbors..... Are you still active in 12 step recovery? My meetings are an on-going source of healing, support, laughter and spiritual growth for me. I celebrated five years of clean time last November, and trust me, I was really really bad in the substance abuse department

I was thinking about this thread in the back of my mind and went and dug it out with the search button. I was just feeling that it's important. I know so many many of us want to be all raw or mostly raw and are then surprized at how difficult it is and just give up. And I've had such good fortune with the spiritual principles of recovery in my life that I want to apply them more towards my food plan.

I am eating a substantial portion of my diet raw. A green drink or green smoothie in the early part of the day and probably a salad before some cooked food for dinner. I was I could say that I am a 100% raw; I'm not! And I still get into junk food and even crappy meat sometimes. I've learned to not beat myself up or the cycle gets more viciously set into place. I just keep trying little by little to do the right thing in this department. And I feel better. But along this journey to becoming raw, there have been times I completely lost control and scared the bejeezus out of myself with binging on junk food! Then I realize how much I can't help myself and I pray for help and this higher power concept.....works.
Let me know if you're out there and want to continue this conversation in-depth. I really think this vein could be beneficial to a lot of others.

[RawVegRon]

Stina,

Congratulations on 5 years of sobriety! That's a miracle, isn't it? I have also solved my alcohol problems, for 2 years, as of 1/23/09. And I also feel that I could solve my food problems by applying similar spiritual principles to them, in order to abstain from SAD.

I relate to your periodic binging. You sound like a person who is trying to moderate, manage, and control SAD. Answer me this: If you cannot do that with a simple addiction, like alcohol; why do you think you could do it with a multiple addiction like SAD?

Personally, I am working to apply the spiritual principles of AA to SAD. I call my program Renounce And Enjoy. I invite you to take a look at it, if you're interested. You can find it in Google Groups by doing a search for Renounce And Enjoy.

Ron