5.5m baby losing weight...but don't feel ready to wean

[xspiritmeawayx]

Hi,
I've been lurking on this forum for some time now and it has really given me some good advice (and recipes:)
I have a 5.5m little baby boy who is exclusively breastfed, I am 100% raw and have been for the last 1.5yrs excluding a couple of bowls of millet during the second trimester when i was pregnant.
I haven't been aving my son weight as i have felt no need for it...he sees so healthy, he sleeps through the whole night is very alert and can stand himself up on the edge of the cofee table.
Anyway he got weighed and was just 1oz off a stone yesterday and the health advisor seemed very concerned as he has 'veered off course' and although he hasnt lost any weight he is 'loosing weight in the sense the he is not putting it on as well as he 'should' be.
Now the chart she marks it off on is for bottle fed babes so im guessing the average is a bit higher for them so i wouldn't be concerned if it was just because he was lower than that, its just that his weight line thing has gone down a lot.
I really don't feel ready to wean him, he has tastes of fruit but doesnt want to actually eat. if he gets a tiny bit of the flesh in his mouth he just spits it out.
A few months ago i found he would overfeed-throw up, so i would keep try to keep an eye out for when he was actually feeding and not just sucking for comfort.
I realize that babiesa are going throw a big growth spurt at this time, especially if hes pulling himself up on things and trying to walk.
So, what im wondering is-should i try to wean him? i know you shouild run off instinct but i have been having a hard time with a lot of things lately and am worried that i like the dependancy that ds gives me so i am tring to hang ont o that.
Should i be woried at all or does this weight sound ok? He is lean but very very strong.
At the moment i am just keeping up with th breastfeeding but have noticed i have been offering a lot more subconsciously.
i have been going through such a stressful time lately i just feel really on edge.
thanks-even if it's just for reading,
linden x

[Zaphirah]

certainly don't wean. fruit at this age seems a little early-esp by his sign-he's spitting it out. I wouldn't worry. My dc, despite bottle feeding for medical reasons, have *always* been underweight. I really wouldn't worry, esp if he seems happy and is sleeping well. IMHO-breastmilk is WAY more nutritious than anything you could be feeding him at this stage.

[HolyGuacamole]

Breast milk is the healthiest thing - and is indeed the perfect thing - for you to be feeding him.
Charts mean nothing. The real gauge is whether or not he looks happy and healthy to you.

Relax, trust yourself. *hugs*
Trust your baby, too. If he wants to nurse, let him nurse. He knows what he's doing better than any doctor or chart ever could.

I agree that there's no need for fruit at this point, and he seems to agree, as well. Again, he knows what he needs. It's OK to trust his cues.

No matter what you decide to do apart from breastfeeding, there is no need to wean him. None at all. So there's one less thing for you to worry about. :)


P.S. You are allowed to enjoy nursing your son and the closeness and intimacy it brings. It's a special, beautiful, miraculous thing. You're blessed to be a part of this perfect, natural process and to be sharing it with your wonderful little son. It's OK to enjoy it. :)

[Zaphirah]

wow-if that's correct he's 14 pounds-my ds weighed 17 at A YEAR. He's a tall lanky skinny kid. Some kids are just like that.

[Moretta]

Like others have said, don't wean him.

Go with your motherly instincts and also your son's.

Big hugs to you and good luck.

[coco]

personally i feel that those charts and averages they use to judge where a baby is at are based on babies from sad eating mommies who feed their kids cereal when they are very young. of course they weigh more but that is not an indicator of health, it is only ONE thing in a list of many that you have already taken a look at and your baby is doing fine with (sleeping, alertness, development).

i would thank her for her time and let her know that i was going to seek a second opinon and not see her again. sorry to say but she (or he) sounds a bit idiotic to be that concerned based on all the other factors.

i don't intend to wean until age 3 or so, breastfeeding is a perfect compliment to regular food.

[xspiritmeawayx]

hey everyone,
thanks for your support and advice, i think it was the support that i needed the most.
the reason he was weighed in the first place was because the health advisor came round because someone had reported us for a burn on ds hand! it really upset me because its someone i know relatively well. they had apparently rang and said that they were 'very concerned about a burn on ds hand though they know we take good care of him they dont think we will be taking good care of the burn as we don't like using medicine'. i wear him in the sling when we're out and the only plces i had taken him out of the sling were the healthfood shop (i have a friend who works there) and the veggie cafe (with friends also). so i feel like i dont know who to trust as noone said anything to me.
so then after she checked the burn (which is healing perfectly without any unnesessary medicine) she weighed him and was 'very worried'.
its so annoying how many peopl just 'read off the chart' she even said herself 'well i don't have a clue when it comes to veganism'. but she still felt qualified to tell me how to raise my child???
so shes coming next month to weigh him again and im just going to say that i have been feeding him whatever she wants. i had so much trouble caused for me during my pregnancy through meddling women who thought they knew best.
i definately am having a unassisted pregnancy next time.
thanks a lot. will probably let you know how it goes when she comes again
linden xx

[HolyGuacamole]

Gosh, I'm so sorry that happened to you.

[Teraw]

Let me just say 1 thing. YOU r doing everything right. She is the 1 that's confused. She would rather you poison your son with unhealthy foods and chemicals, just so she can sleep at night. Its so annoying how SAD people turn their noses up at us. They would feel more comfortable if your son was up all night with a fever b/c "babies get sick". B4 the burn & weighing him, I bet she has never been concerned based on his looks and actions. If you feel okay about telling her that, then its okay w/ me, but I would let her know she isn't qualified to handle my son, since she has no clue about Raw Vegan babies.

I also want to say that you are my inspiration. I want more than anything to have a Raw Vegan baby. I am 100 % raw and in 3 years I will be able to get pregnant. My bf is super supportive even though he is SAD, he's making small strides. I cant wait 2 marry him and populate the earth w/ healthy, polite, raw vegan babies!

How was your Raw labor?

[Chickadee]

she even said herself 'well i don't have a clue when it comes to veganism'.

I don't understand this statement since your son isn't vegan, he's breastfed, so what would being vegan possibly have to do with it.

Since it's an investigation, you will want to proceed with caution, but print off all the info regarding healthy breastfed babies (especially from WHO) to "educate" her on her next visit. Also, if you have a doctor you trust, why not take your son there and have a check-up, have the doctor give him a written bill of health. I don't know how Child Protective Service operates in the UK, but it seems to me that your main goal should be to shut down any investigation and get on living your life the healthiest way for you and your son. Is it law that she have access to your son? When she first called, were you required by law to let her see him? (No judgement, just curious)

[xspiritmeawayx]

this is what happened during my pregnancy/birth:


I had a lot of trouble with Midwives throughout my pregnancy, I saw the women that caused me the most trouble in the laundrette a couple of days ago and it dredged up some feelings/memories. I realized that I still hadn't written a birth story for Ezriel which is something that i had wanted/still want to do.

I wrote this as a post on a UC forum a couple of months back. I edited it a bit and it will do for now...fortunately Ezriel isn't as impressed about myspace as the rest of us and wont let me sit still for 2mins:)

'From as soon as I got pregnant (I did a home test but was pretty certain anyway) I felt that it was my job to give birth to the baby and to make sure I had a healthy pregnancy. For me that didn't include reading up on birth etc loads just eating right exercising and keeping a positive attitude.

The reason I went to see the midwife at first was basically cause to get the healthy start tokens (then 2.80 a week for fruit veg and milk) you had to get a midwife's signature-this might seem a bit pathetic but and extra couple of bags of organic salad a week really helped us out as Michael and I are both on benefits.

I made an appt, got the forms signed, she gave me a quick check over but couldn't really check much as I must've only been about a month along. She asked me to make another appt in 4wks so I did just thinking that I would decide at the time whether to go or not. I went the to the appt and again she asked the same thing but when I was due to go see her this time, all day morning sickness had set in and we were due to move in a week or two so i was pretty stressed and tired and didn't feel like going so I skipped that appmnt.

We moved and I was still having REALLY bad nausea all day (seriously I was only eating one apple a day or some dried fruit) and had lost a load of weight but I knew it was something I just had to get through myself. We got what looked like a standard letter through the post from my gp (forwarded from our old address) asking me to make an apmnt with the midwife but I just left it, didn't feel like I needed it, or up to listening to anyone else telling me I was anaemic (I'm vegan and have a naturally pale complexion, I knew I was just normal).

Sure enough after about 4mnths I was feeling stronger and eating loads more when I was making lunch one day I turned round to find the midwife standing behind me! Michael had let her up at the bottom door (we live in a small block of flats) not being sure who it was as 'I want to see linden' was all she said, (he thought it might've been my mum) and she had just barged straight past him when she got up through our front door and into the kitchen! Not very professional or polite.

I was I bit surprised/shocked to see her there in my home standing behind me while I was in the middle of putting lunch out so I just looked at her and waited for her to explain herself. The first thing she said was 'Where have you been Linden, I've been looking all over for you? I've had to be quite a detective to find you.' in the most patronizing trying to intimidate voice ever. I didn't understand what she meant at first and then realized it was cause we had moved. 'I've been calling round and phoning you and I just couldn't get in touch. If you can't make regular antenatal appmnts then how do I know you're going to be fit to raise a child?' I really didn't think that was a nice thing to say at all and told her that I didn't appreciate her speaking to me so patronizingly and explained how I had just moved and been feeling ill and didn't realize I was obliged to make appmnts if I didn't want to. She came back and said ' so just because I'm a midwife I'm being patronizing?' I told her no way it way it was just the way she was speaking to me.

She went on almost hysterically for the next 10mins saying how shed had such a job to find me I wasn't being responsible etc. I kept quiet and let her calm down. She gave me a check over and asked whether I had thought about the birth (of course not!?), I said that I wanted a homebirth and asked her about doulas in the area, she snapped back that they were illegal and I just let it drop. She made an appmnt fo for me at the clinic in 3weeks time.

I went to the appmnt cause it seemed like too much stress not to. went to another and got an appmnt for another. When that one came up I had an awful flu like cold and wasn't up to it so cancelled and made one for as soon as possible which was a couple of weeks later, when that came up my Michael couldn't make it and i didn't fancy going it alone with her so again cancelled and got one for as soon as possible which was two weeks later again.

The next thing I know we have a letter through the post saying that we had been referred to social services through my lack of interest in the welfare of my unborn child, plans of having an unassisted birth and concerns that I was being 'controlled' by Michael!!

Michael rang the midwife up straight away to find out what the hell was going on. He told her that we had missed the two appmnts for legitimate reasons and asking her where she had got the idea that we were planning a UC birth and that he was controlling me. She wouldnt explain her self and told us to wait and see what social services thought of the situation and made arrangements to come round and speak to us.

We then rang social services and they made arrangements to see us-on the same day as the midwife actually just a little earlier.

They came round and I think they were a little shocked to see us with a clean and tidy home with plenty of books, baby gear and an obvious strong loving relationship. They seemed to be expecting to meet two alcoholics living in a drug den. They seemed really understanding of the missed appointments though, and had no idea where the midwife had gotten the idea that we were planning an uc birth or that my partner was controlling. They said to us because we had been referred that we would have to have a core assessment for an hour a week for the next seven weeks to see whether or not we should stay on the child abuse register. They had already had a meeting with two policemen and would find out before the next meeting where the midwife had got her ideas from.

So as soon as they left the midwife came, this time she had brought another we had never met with her. I felt really nervous for some reason so I just kept my head down. She started asking how it had gone with social services and seemed very smug. Michael told her it went fine and asked her why she thought he was controlling me. She wouldnt say at first and then when she noticed I hadn't said a word since she came she jumped on it and said it was because I was unresponsive to her. This really wound me up because it was a complete lie, I spoke to her the most at the appmnts (I remember moaning to my Michael to speak more at the appmnts lol) and the last time I had seen her I had been arguing with her. I told her this and asked how I had been unresponsive and she said I was being so before when she came in and when I said yes that was because she made me nervous she told me that she didn't believe me, even when I offered to her to check my pulse and feel my sweaty palms.

When we asked why she thought I was planning an unassisted birth she said that I had told her the last time we had met. I honestly didn't say that whatsoever, the closest thing I can think of was asking her about a doula.

She just said it was her word against mine and when my Michael pushed it further she turned round and said 'I don't have to explain myself to you Michael'.

So that left us with the problem about the appmnts which when we explained how we had missed them for legitimate reasons and made the soonest appmnts we could get she told us the she had had at least one free appmnt every week. We asked her how we could've done more than ask the receptionist for the soonest appmnt possible and she said we'd just have to agree to disagree.

[xspiritmeawayx]

When the discussion had moved on to how and where I was going to have the birth I asked her about something, I cant remember what, but she had turned round and said in a really high and mighty manner, 'Well Linden if you had made the effort to attend your antenatal appmnts, you would know.'

This absolutely infuriated me as I had explained why I had missed the appmnts and also because she had just closed on the subject with lets agree to disagree and there she was making snidey comments.

So at that point I kind've lost it and told her to leave our home, now! And she was really taken aback I don't think she was used to not being top dog especially not to someone at least half her age.

As she was going I asked the other women if she could get us another midwife and we saw her from then on. She was fine though we were still saying that we had no intention of having a uc.

So we just had to deal with social services which wasn't too bad just very frustrating especially as I was so far along by that point, I think I had about3/4weeks to go). It turned out that the first midwife had been speaking to my mother when she had been trying to find our new address, my mum hates Michael and had told the midwife about how he stops me from seeing her-which is completely untrue ( I decided to stop going round to see her not long into the pregnancy as I just didn't need the stress).

So we had things pretty much sorted, the only problem now was that we had been swearing blind we weren't planning an unassisted birth just in case they tried to prosecute Michael (however unlikely) and also because you don't have to break the law for social services to deem you unfit parents. Previously we had planned to just do an 'oops came too quick' but we thought that would seem pretty obvious now but when it came to the birth we had no other choice.

I did labour and give birth unassisted though slightly more alone than planned (Michael kept falling asleep). We decided to ring midwife before placenta came and say that Michael was downstairs working on our van and that Ezriel had already come when he came back up.

When she got here her attitude was not 'well done you're a strong woman' but 'oh you poor thing' but I guess I expected as much. What I didn't expect was for her to turn around and tell me that there was no way I could then deliver the placenta myself as my cervix would have closed (after 1.5hrs-BS!?) and if I didn't let her try and remove it now I would most likely have to go into hospital, theatre! Now just the thought of theatre and utter loss of control made me close up and retreat mentally so I'm pretty sure I did it physically too.




I just I should have just remained strong and focused but I was feeling pretty exhausted.

So I let her/gave in to her and she pulled out what looked like a pair of scissors I immediately told her to stop as we had been planning a lotus birth, she told me they were just clamps and then tried pulling on the cord to no avail only succeeding in virtually severing the cord. It had stopped pulsing by this time so I said she might as well cut it- another thing which upset me as if anyone was going to cut it it would have been my partner or I.

Then what I had been so adamant wouldn't happen happened, she called an ambulance and they took me to hospital. I was lifted into the ambulance off it and onto the bed despite me telling them I wanted to walk to get the placenta moving.

When I got there the first thing they did was to insert a catheter but I knew it wouldn't do anything as I hadn't drank all night. Then when that didn't work as I told them It wouldn't, the only option as they saw it was to pump me full of drugs and try yanking it out or for me to go into theatre.

I definitely wasn't going into theatre or having any drugs, painkillers or otherwise so I ended up with them pulling it out manually whilst I was pushing and screaming: it was so painful. But I eventually did it. The placenta was whisked away and I never saw it again

They gave me back Ezriel who had been sitting alone in an incubator while Michael held my hand and left me there with the catheter in for at least 4 hours while they were waiting for blood tests to come back(they had took some because I was even more pale than usual-I had just given birth?!-they came back with higher iron levels than the average person).

When they came back they started with the whole rhogam anti d thing but I was just too out of it to know any more than I didn't want any injections going anywhere near me unless I knew exactly what was in them. They said we could research it when we got back but it would have to be given within the next 72 hrs if I wanted it. I didn't have it as we don't even know Michaels blood type and if it's meant to be that we don't have any more kids its meant to be, I still need to research it now does anyone have any good info/links about it?

We then had to wait until someone could collect the car seat and give us a lift back from the hospital. Michaels brother and gf did which was very kind but then when we got back they stayed for what felt like hours-I just wanted to get a shower and chill out in bed with Ezriel and Michael.

So, not exactly as expected but I managed the birth unassisted and lived through the trauma with the placenta with the most amazing baby boy to show for it!'

It upsets me that I spend most of the time talking about all the problems I had with the medical services instead of talking about the birth process and how I feel about that.

I think it's going to be U.P all the way for me next time...''

chickadee- no it doesn't really make sense does it? she said it in relation to me weaning ds, she didn't know what a raw vegan would wean/feed their baby on. she just knew i needed to wean him.

regarding the investigation procedure; she did ask us on the phone whether she could come and see us, i dont know if she was just being polite or not. but since we have had trouble with social services prior to this investigation on the burn we thought it might be a good idea to refuse a visit. when the health advisor (this is the other part of their job) was doing the regular checks in the beginning i had asked her if we had to see her (by that time i just wanted to be left the hell alone) and she had replied 'no you don't but it would make us suspicious'. so refusing to see her wouldnt do much good unless i was ready to fight the legalities, and i dont think im strong enough to do this unless i have to. i dont remember the last time i went to the doctors so i dont know any of them well enough to gage whether or not they would be sympathetic or agree ''he is'nt putting on weight as well as he could be, lets get him on solids''.

im kind've reluctant to be outspoken in any way purely because of what happened with the midwife (about asking about a doula=uc). so im wondering whether if i just go along with what they say and because there is nothing physically wrong they wont have anythig to get worried about (he will just be labelled a lean child i imagine)

but i will do my research (and have it neatly typed and referenced )and maybe just feel out how the situation is going

x

[xspiritmeawayx]

however strong im being it always makes me feel that little bit stronger wth words of support and ecouragement:)

I feel that way too, we will soon have a raw vegan army:) are you waiting 3yrs till you marry? i guess at least hopefully hubby-to-be will be raw by then ;)

yes you're right when the health inspecter came to the door her first words were 'hes very bright isnt he' then when she was putting him on the scales 'wow hes really strong look how hes managing to keep his back straight' then as soon as she got him on the scales it was as if she had found out he had the plague

ds was is my first so i dont really have any comparison (of labour). but i slept through half of it and the rest of it was totally manageable. i did get to a point when i thought 'i really could do with a break now' but 10mns later ds was born. and although my birth wasnt really the beautiful event i had imagined it to be but that was due to the outside forces disturbing my inner focus.

lindenxx

[coco]

OMG what a nightmare. i am so sorry for you doll. so very sorry. the medi establishment (and i strongly insist that midwifery now operates strictly in this formula and that real midwives no longer exist at all) is very invested in keeping women from become empowered by reclaiming birth. we are not allowed our bodies any more and one must be EXTREMELY careful about bucking the system in this way. because there is a child involved they have leverage to destroy your rights in regards to birth and to disallow women from owning pregnancy and birth. it is the ultimate effort of the patriarchy to subvert women's natural power and to allienate us from our sexuality, our bodies, our fertility and our Partners! not to mention our children. what an unwelcome entrance to the world, being born into a stranger's arms instead of a mother or father's familiar and loving embrace.

i loathe midwifery and would never, EVER have one of those practitioners at a birth of mine. never. i found a way around the system but let me tell you, they did not like it, they tried in many ways to make it impossible and most unpleasant for me via child services and forcing me to endure several days of scurrying around pursuing impossible appointments and paperwork immediately following my birth and for the next year concerning proper id for a baby i couldn't "prove" was my own (as though the leaky breasts and racing stripe belly line aren't enough proof!). but i didn't succumb to their pressure, i preservered because the idea of having someone else directing an experience that belongs exclusively to my child and myself is abhorrent to me and i will NOT allow it.

we have to advocate for ourselves somehow. i'm going to check out laura kaplan shanley's website and see what sort of social action i can take to make sure women are not robbed of their blissful birth experiences or harrased for refusing to bow to the establishment. i strongly encourage all of you to pursue this as well, pass the word. we as labouring women are under seige and have to resist with all of our womenly might! sisters unite! i can't read any more stories like the one above without doing something about it. can you?

xspiritmeawayx, i hope you're feeling centered and peaceful and enjoying mamahood. please send your story on to laura kaplan, it's good for her to have a repository of these experiences to help mobilize people in the struggle to retain our birthing rights.

blessing on you.

[Chickadee]

Wow! What a horrific experience! I'm so sorry you went through that. Sounds like that "midwife" has real psychological problems and shouldn't be practicing. Is there anywhere to file a complaint about her behavior? Perhaps if enough were filed, something could be done about her.

I have to say, you were alot more polite to her than I would've been. I don't think I would've tried to explain myself to her, infact I wouldn't have even acknowledged her again...assuming I had that legal right. When she first showed up and went off on me, I think I would have demanded she leave my house immediately and not return uninvited.

Perhaps she's behind the current call to Social Services. Or your mother, since she had a part in the previous situation.

Unfortunately, "they" (The Powers That Be) will continue to infringe on peoples personal rights until "we" stand up for ourselves and say NO MORE!
Only you can decide when that time has come for you.

Best wishes to you and your precious son! ;)