MSM Powder Warning

[lovenlife]

I took it quite a while ago and had no problems. I just started taking it again. Not worried.

[kittykat76]

I just would like to share that I had a similar experience with msm powder...I took only twice a teaspoon in 2 days and it totally messed me up as if I had taken drugs. I wasnt able to sleep anymore and I hardly could work the next day as I felt extremly unwell and unrelaxed, my nervs were totally blunt...
I luckily had booked a colonic irrigation that day and somehow I felt newborn again after the treatment and the negative feelings from the msm had disappeared.
I find it very dangerous that these kind of side effects can happen from a so called harmless detoxing powder...be careful!!!!!

[Zipfelmuetze]

Hmm, this is indeed rather scary and unfortunate. I currently take the MSM from Trader Joe's (1000MG pills). I have not noticed anything weird or abnormal and I began taking it while on a SAD diet and still taking it now while 80% raw and a lot of green juicing. It makes my hair feel strong and thicker and is growing nicely. I typically have thin and limp hair. I even notice that my hair does not feel as thick if I forget to take an MSM pill. I was certainly of the impression that one could not go wrong with MSM. I'm starting to believe that one could go wrong with just about anything, and that every single person reacts differently to anything.

As much as I love green juices the idea that I may be receiving alkaloids from juicing too much of the same thing is also a scary thought. The concept: 'everything in moderation' certainly comes to mind.

[Raw Angel Mom]

I only take that in the morning, i already had sleeping disorder so it didn't seem to agravate it. I am actually sleeping better now since doing maca. Maca regulate your hormone.

[Arky]

I literally have chills reading your Mom's symptoms. Many of which I too have been experiencing for the past 5-6 years I've been taking the supplement, and it's increasingly become worse each year. Although, I always had problems sleeping, so I didn't really rule that as a factor, but I do have problems now with my thyroid.

I too have had serious complications from taking MSM.

Little did I know that the anxiety and neurological disorders I was experiencing and the further blockages and other serious symptoms (even siezures) could be related to my intake of this supplement.

Let me elaborate:

Over a period of time, I had suddenly developed a nervousness or muscle problem that made it difficult to speak. I went to do a gig for a producer, and suddenly I couldn't get a note out. I developed anxiety and had a very difficult time breathing.

I also started experiencing depression, memory loss, a mysterious blockage on my right side, toe nail fungus, lowered immune system, and other neurological problems which inhibited my air supply and prevented me from talking. It was like I would try to say something, but couldn't produce the sound. At first I thought this was hormonal, like a nervousness, as I would feel better just two days before my menstrual cycle. But during the cycle, the symptoms would return with a vengeance. My personality and other things changed, due to the complications.

Recently, I quit taking the MSM. After about two weeks, my voice started coming back and it suddenly became easier to talk and I have less anxiety. People were literally treating me like I was crazy. I also had problems with concentration, etc. I did notice that I would have bowel movements previously when I took the supplements. This has stopped and I have been going through a period of constipation, but started taking colonics (senna/cascada, psyllium, etc) to help me clean out my system.

I still have some type of nervousness or anxiety, but it is not to the extreme nature has it has been in the past. In fact, this is the first time in a long while I could speak and actually start vocalizing without feeling the "shaking." Also, I noticed I did have heart palpitations and other things related to my airways, have suddenly been relieved. At first, I thought this was related to other things.

=======

I had determined not to post on this board anymore, but I can't, with clear conscience, stand by and say nothing about the unfortunate experiences some people have related in this thread. In spite of my discontentment with moderation practices on this board, there's a lot of decent members here, trying to help each other, and, for my part, I like to help others, too...


Whilst there is invariably more than one possibility when investigating health problems, I feel there is one issue in particular which has not been discussed here, and which can specifically relate to disturbances in the function of sulphation pathways in the liver, and Ebmin7b5 - the symptoms you have specifically described correlate very strongly indeed with what I am about to suggest.

It's a curious thing that a couple of my most recent posts have covered the same topic - I've known about the topic for a long time (as a consequence of personal health experiences), but, just recently, there seem to have been a spate of posts on this board, from various people, which tally with it. Coincidence? Who can say...

Anyway, Ebmin7b5, I'll keep this brief - sulphation pathways in the liver can be disrupted by certain heavy metals such as mercury and arsenic. That's point 1.

Point 2 is that heavy metals such as mercury and lead are POTENT neurotoxins which mess not only with brain function but with the entire nervous system as a whole, giving rise to a wide spectrum of nervous disorders. Poor concentration (and impaired short term memory), for example, are absolutely classic textbook symptoms for mercury toxicity, as are shakes/tremors.

Point 3 is that mercury is also a potent endocrine disruptor - it'll happily disrupt adrenal and thyroid function, and you have mentioned thyroid issues. You also mentioned:

"changes in your personality" - lead, copper, mercury - all of these, owing to their potent neurotoxicity, can exert profound negative influences upon personality - e.g. depression, excessive procrastination, lethargy/lack of motivation, extreme mood swings (esp. rapid anger) - it's a very long list...

"a mysterious blockage in my right side" - if close to the ribcage, this could suggest biliary issues (heavy metals, for example, can impede production of bile and exhaust reserves of amino acids such as taurine and glycine, both of which are required in order to keep bile soluble - less solubility can thus lead to coagulation of bile and, potentially, formation of gallstones etc.). If lower down than the ribcage, perhaps near the appendix, then it is not unknown for heavy metals such as lead to cause 'phantom' appendix discomfort. Strange but true.

"toenail fungus & lowered immune system" (fungal and yeast issues are often a reflection of a suppressed immune system). Heavy metal toxicity is well-known to bring about immune suppression, for several bio-physiological reasons.

"heart palpitations" - as I mentioned in another recent post, heavy metals such as antimony can also produce symptoms such as heart palpitations (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthrea...956#post658956)

As far as the breathing goes - have you, at any point in your life, been around dust from the removal of old paint? (paint manufactured prior to 1978). This is high in lead and is known to absorb very well through the lungs. The following quote may or may not be relevant to your lung symptoms but I'll offer it to you in the hope that it'll pique your interest to investigate this whole heavy-metals issue further:

"Lungs - Prone to inflammatory response from mercury induced oxidation of cell membrane EFAs.

...Asthma may be induced directly by alterations in signaling molecule function or indirectly by allergy induction. Bronchial spasms may be due to low progesterone"
p.48, Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment - Andrew Hall Cutler

Also:


"Mercury concentrates in and near...the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus is responsible for your memory, moods and emotions, and how your hormones, breathing and heartbeat work. It also concentrates in your liver, which is responsible for getting rid of natural and synthetic chemicals... Mercury is also absorbed by the immune system, and makes it attack innocent bystanders like pollen or your body parts instead of the bacteria and viruses it is supposed to fight."
p.30, Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment - Andrew Hall Cutler


Since mercury can impair bile production (basically, it really punishes and disrupts the function of the entire hepato-biliary (liver-gallbladder) system), not enough bile means, amongst other things, not enough natural stimulation of the bowel, which means potential constipation. Such a scenario is also self-compounding because heavy metals such as mercury and copper are ordinarily excreted via the bile - if bile production/emission is compromised then so is excretion of these heavy metals, and so on, in a vicious-circle. This is a biggie for copper, and Andy Cutler often points out that the symptoms of copper poisoning can also be very similar, if not indistinguishable, from those of mercury poisoning.

Incidentally, if anyone reading this suffers from an inflammatory bowel condition, you might find relevant another recent post discussing related aspects of this: http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthrea...114#post656114


...See where I'm going with all this?


I highly recommend you obtain 2 books by Andrew Hall Cutler. Details at www.NoAmalgam.com, and obtainable either directly from him, there, or via Amazon etc.

In addition to these 2 books, you'll need to seriously consider getting a Doctor's Data ('DDI') 'Hair Elements' Test (not the 'Toxic Elements' test). You can obtain this directly from DirectLabs.com, and it's very economical. Please note that interpreting hair analyses is NOT as simple as just looking at what readings are high or low - Andy Cutler's books will help you understand how to accurately interpret them. It's not rocket science but you need to follow some clearly-described statistical procedures. For example, one who is mercury toxic might nonetheless receive test results with a low mercury reading. This is to do with the fact that mercury can derange mineral transport in the cells in the body, thus the cells may be rendered incapable of excreting mercury via the hair follicles. Also note that low readings of various metals in the hair can also be due to the toxic exposure having happened years ago, leading to the metals being 'stashed away' in various cells of the body, rather than freely floating around. I'm describing this crudely for the sake of brevity, so please get the above books and learn the details for yourself.

Please listen to me very carefully - do NOT be tempted to follow the advice of some doctors or patients to use chlorella or cilantro/coriander! They can be extremely dangerous if you do, in fact, turn out to have heavy metal intoxication. This suggestion to avoid these substances is not my 'opinion'; it's simply based upon having learned why and how they can potentially represent a risk to heavy-metal-toxic individuals. Chelation is a very, very tricky business and must be done right or you can cause serious neurological damage.

(CONT. next Post, below...)

[Arky]

You may not have heavy metal toxicity, but, given the symptoms you have briefly described, and in addition to the possible liver sulphation-pathway issues, re' the MSM side-effects, you'd be daft not to get yourself tested, as described above, particularly considering how very cheap it is to do so. Heavy metal toxicity is a topic mainstream doctors have little or no training in, so they very frequently fail to recognise the symptoms. Several doctors and specialists failed to diagnose me, so I speak from personal experience here (note that MSM has never been an issue for me, but heavy metals affect different people in a wide spectrum of different ways).


It's notable that the symptoms you describe have, in your case, had a close association with your consumption of MSM, and have relented a little now that you've ceased consuming MSM.

...So why I am I still suggesting that you may have heavy metal toxicity? Doesn't it seem 'obvious' that it was all just caused by MSM?

Well... "NO".

Whilst is IS possible it was all just caused by your body reacting to MSM, consider this:

1) As I have described above, in moderate detail, many of your symptoms match those of heavy metal poisoning.

2) In heavy-metal-chelation circles, it is very frequently discussed that the biochemistry of sulphur-containing compounds is specifically-relevant with regard to heavy metals. It's all to do with sulfhydryl bonds (or 'thiols'), which most sulphur compounds only contain one of. They are thus able to free heavy metals from their locations in the body of a metal-poisoned person, BUT they do so by forming a relatively weak bond and the consequence of this is that they are prone to 'letting-go' of these metals before they can be safely excreted from the body. A major consequence of this is that metals can be temporarily 'freed-up' to cause more damage to the delicate cells of the body. This is why a person wishing to chelate heavy metals from their body must be EXTREMELY careful what substances they use and how they use them, but that is a topic in itself and lies outside the scope of this particular thread - (read Cutler's books for in-depth explanation on this - he's developed an innovative approach to chelation which is infinitely safer than anything that's gone before).

SO...bringing all of this back to the current topic, MSM is Methyl Sulfonyl Methane. It's a sulphur-containing compound!

Now, I should point out that I lack a chemistry doctorate and MSM is not conclusively acknowledged to fall foul of the above-described single-sulfhydryl-bond pitfalls, BUT, nonetheless, it is reported by some heavy-metal-poisoned individuals to cause problems. It is not unreasonable to suggest, in our discussion of MSM, here, then, that it may, instead of acting as a toxic substance in its own right, have in fact SEEMED toxic to you simply by virtue of possibly being responsible for freeing-up pre-existing heavy metal toxins within your body. Since your symptoms so closely resemble those of heavy metal toxicity, it is my contention that this is perhaps the more likely explanation in your particular case, Ebmin7b5. In addition, and until you have conclusively eliminated the possibility of heavy metal toxicity in your case, I suggest you avoid not only MSM, cilantro and chlorella, but also avoid Alpha-Lipoic Acid (ALA is a good chelator but is extremely dangerous to a metal-toxic individual unless taken in a highly-specific manner, again outlined in Cutler's books).

Take care, and good luck with your testing. Remember, if you go ahead with this, there are many labs that offer such a test, but I recommend DDI because it is one of the most comprehensive (remember, get the 'Hair Elements' test, NOT the 'Toxic Elements' test), and because the DDI is the specific one discussed in Cutler's books and is thus the easiest to interpret with the aid of his books.



@ Yvette - I hadn't realised how old this thread is, so, reading back through it, I am sorry for your loss.

There are many possible symptoms relating to heavy metal toxicity but one common symptom is disruption of circadian rhythms and insomnia (mercury interferes with melatonin metabolism, for example) as well as unusually frequent night-time urges to urinate. Whilst I understand that it is a sore subject for you, I hate to think of you feeling guilty about the effect the MSM seemed to have on your mother. I hope you can see, from the above discussion, that it is quite possible that the MSM may not necessarily have been 'toxic' to your mum, but that it perhaps did nothing more than highlight a pre-existing condition (e.g. did she have dental amalgams? Did she have annual flu shots? (these contain 'Thimerosal', a mercury-based preservative).


All the best.


Oh, and there's some related discussion on heavy metal issues in another recent thread:

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthrea...944#post658944

[Mary Kay]

Wow, Arky! Thanks for taking the time to write that "dissertation." Very nice of you!

So, to put it in "English" LOL ---you believe the sulfur compounds within the MSM may have triggered the release of some toxic heavy metals that may be stored in some people's bodies? Correct?

Very interesting.

I also have just started taking MSM. don't notice anything, but.... Blech. How do all of you take it? I assumed that because it comes in a powder, it wouldn't taste so bad. Yuck.

Thanks again!

Mary Kay

[Arky]

So, to put it in "English" LOL ---you believe the sulfur compounds within the MSM may have triggered the release of some toxic heavy metals that may be stored in some people's bodies? Correct?

Mary Kay

Sorry it was a bit long-winded - if I'd just written it as succinctly as you did, then no-one would take the hypothesis seriously (and, of course, they still might not! LOL ;) )

Yes, although please note that I'm not stating it as a fact; I'm merely discussing it as a reasonable hypothesis, on the basis of which to get a hair analysis done. It's cheap, easy and may turn out to be a rosetta stone for one or more of the people who've contributed to this thread with MSM-associated problems of their own.

I no longer use MSM but never had problems (at least that I was aware of) with it, even though I do have heavy metal issues. I only ever used it ad-hoc, though, never frequently. Everyone is different...

[Arky]

...just revisiting a portion of Ebmin7b5's post that I didn't fully address yesterday, I noticed something else intriguing.

As I mentioned yesterday. Mercury really messes with the endocrine system, and consequently progesterone is commonly suppressed by mercury.

Ebmin7b5 mentioned progesterone in her post, as follows:

...I also started experiencing depression, memory loss, a mysterious blockage on my right side, toe nail fungus, lowered immune system, and other neurological problems which inhibited my air supply and prevented me from talking. It was like I would try to say something, but couldn't produce the sound. At first I thought this was hormonal, like a nervousness, as I would feel better just two days before my menstrual cycle. But during the cycle, the symptoms would return with a vengeance. My personality and other things changed, due to the complications. I thought for years that it was something else.
=======

Now, I quoted Cutler's book yesterday, as follows:

"Lungs - Prone to inflammatory response from mercury induced oxidation of cell membrane EFAs.

...Asthma may be induced directly by alterations in signaling molecule function or indirectly by allergy induction. Bronchial spasms may be due to low progesterone"
p.48, Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment - Andrew Hall Cutler


Taking a quick look at the female cycle on Wiki ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstrual_cycle ), one can see that progesterone peaks just a few days prior to menses, and completely crashes to zero during menses.

This, too, appears to tally closely with Cutler's description of the effects of mercury upon progesterone and, as a consequence, upon the lungs. It is not unreasonable to suppose, then, that mercury may be suppressing progesterone (and thus increasing likelihood of bronchial spasms) for most of any given month, but that the endocrine system is, for a very short number of days, when it peaks during the monthly cycle, nonetheless succeeding in raising progesterone levels just sufficiently high enough to meet the healthy threshold where bronchial spasms are not generated.

If anyone knows Ebmin7b5 personally, would they please e-mail her, as I now notice she appears to be inactive on this board now. The discussion here might be of help to her. Thanks

[Mary Kay]

Oh, Arky,

Your long-winded description was ABSOLUTELY appreciated....I just wanted to make sure I got it right.

Also, very nice of you to try to contact that poster.

Thanks again,

Mary Kay

[MysticTree]

those are very interesting suggestions. I will look into it more - although I don't take any of the powders and pills that claim super-status, I am interested in the heavy metal aspect.

Thanks for posting the info.

Georgina

[Raw Angel Mom]

I am not sure why Arky you say to stay away from those importants ingredient to neutralize heavy metal.

I cannot denial my personal experience or neither i can use my personal experience to make the truth for other.

MSM neutralize mercury (Sulfure disolve mercury)
Cilantro does the same

Like i said, i cannot denial my personal experience and witness dramatic result after using this.

My daughter has heavy metal poisonning. After testing it on me first, i put some msm in her smoothie. I was able to see dramatic improvement. She would drink the smoothie through the day combined with my milk.

I only put a very small amount and continued to do that up to now.

Anyway, just sharing because it would be sad that others would go into fear to take MSM or to eat cilantro. I think people need to give it a try if it feels right to them.

Now, i know that green apple, apple cider vinager and other sour food neutralize the alluminium.

This is about doing what feels right and resonnate with you. I followed my guidance to help my little girl and she is doing so fantastic.

All the best!

p.s My daughter got re-tested again and she barely have trace of the condition she was diagnosed in 2008. I know that her food, herbs etc... had played a major big roll.

[Arky]

...I will look into it more - although I don't take any of the powders and pills that claim super-status, I am interested in the heavy metal aspect.

Yes, the whole heavy metal thing was a real eye-opener for me when I was forced to learn about it in depth for myself. I'd known about heavy metals, on a casual basis, for years, but when I delved deeply into it, a great many pieces of the health puzzle began to slot into place for me. What came as a surprise to me is the common substances in the natural health movement (which I've mentioned above) which can be a serious hazard for individuals with heavy metal poisoning - a key point regarding which is that, as I have discussed at length in this thread, many, many people with serious heavy metal toxicity issues are, for many months or years, completely unaware that they have heavy metal toxicity at all. I myself was one such person.

I never imagined that cilantro/coriander could be so hazardous to me because I had no idea I had metal toxicity, for example (KD Ironside has an unfortunate tale to tell about cilantro, and please note that parsley is apparently quite similar to cilantro: http://whatidontknow.net/blog/playing-with-fire/). Same goes for ALA - I've purchased Alpha Lipoic Acid in the past - thankfully only once and I somehow got away without any serious metal redistribution side-effects (same goes for a bottle of NDF I once purchased and thankfully never finished). ALA is very widely available in health food stores and at doses which, to a heavy metal poisoned individual, could (potentially) cause major neurological damage. That's a really sobering thought. I should add that I owe Andy Cutler a debt of gratitude, on so many levels, not least for his astute approach to chelation protocols, but also for his fantastic efforts in educating victims of heavy metal toxicity who are so often let down by the unfortunate ignorance of so many doctors and specialists with regard to heavy metal toxicity symptoms, testing, diagnosis, and treatment. I owe a significant amount of my understanding of heavy metal issues to his skilled efforts in collating and interpreting material from technically-complex scientific journal papers.

In short, I now appreciate that anyone who has unexplained symptoms matching those of heavy metal intoxication would be wise to at least avoid the above substances until heavy metals have been ruled out in their individual case. MSM would, perhaps, appear to be a similar risky substance, for reasons previously discussed, but rather than vilify MSM, it'd be wiser to recognise that if one has an undiagnosed root cause of physiological symptoms, even the most innocent of food substances (cilantro) can, potentially, pose a health risk. This is not intended to imply that one should become fearful or paranoid, but merely that it pays to doggedly and tenaciously research one's own health issues, in order to most quickly and accurately arrive at potential answers, and to understand the various pitfalls surrounding them. It took me much longer than I'd like, but I learned a great deal along the way (still am learning a great deal along the way) and had I not been so determined in my efforts to get to the bottom of my health issues, looking deeper than the mainstream surface explanations, I would probably be consuming coriander etc. as recommended by various 'natural health' websites, and even some professional doctors (e.g. Dr Klinghardt - tinyurl.com/64sxy5q ), with a less-than-rosy prognosis, as a consequence.

Caveat emptor.

[Arky]

I am not sure why Arky you say to stay away from those importants ingredient to neutralize heavy metal.

I cannot denial my personal experience or neither i can use my personal experience to make the truth for other.

MSM neutralize mercury (Sulfure disolve mercury)
Cilantro does the same

Like i said, i cannot denial my personal experience and witness dramatic result after using this.

My daughter has heavy metal poisonning. After testing it on me first, i put some msm in her smoothie. I was able to see dramatic improvement. She would drink the smoothie through the day combined with my milk.

I only put a very small amount and continued to do that up to now.

Anyway, just sharing because it would be sad that others would go into fear to take MSM or to eat cilantro. I think people need to give it a try if it feels right to them.

This is about doing what feels right and resonnate with you. I followed my guidance to help my little girl and she is doing so fantastic.

All the best!

p.s My daughter got re-tested again and she barely have trace of the condition she was diagnosed in 2008.

Hi Raw Angel Mom, just to answer your queries (which I know were said in good spirit), I said what I said because I've doggedly researched the topic & thus come to an appreciation of the reasons why certain natural substances can represent a potential risk to a heavy-metal-intoxicated individual. What follows, then, is meant in the spirit of friendly discussion; it's absolutely not meant negatively towards you personally in any way, ok? I'm merely addressing the issues you raised in your post.

...it would be sad that others would go into fear to take MSM or to eat cilantro. I think people need to give it a try if it feels right to them.

This is about doing what feels right and resonnate with you.

I agree with the spirit of what you said above, but unfortunately, the reality is that many heavy-metal-intoxicated people have experienced dramatic worsening of symptoms after consuming cilantro - this can involve actual damage which is difficult or, sometimes, impossible to heal. This is why it is, arguably, better to avoid a risky substance rather than 'try it', although, of course, it is every person's right to do as they please with their own health.

MSM neutralize mercury (Sulfure disolve mercury)
Cilantro does the same

Like i said, i cannot denial my personal experience and witness dramatic result after using this.

My daughter has heavy metal poisonning. After testing it on me first, i put some msm in her smoothie. I was able to see dramatic improvement.

There is a major difference between redistributing mercury to other parts of the body (e.g. the thyroid, liver, brain etc.) and successfully chelating it from the body. Redistribution might, in some cases, result in apparent remission of symptoms but it does not necessarily imply that the metal has actually left the body. Please understand that important distinction.

I don't dispute that you may have noticed subjective improvements in the symptoms of your daughter, and I'm happy for you both if that is the case, but I know of no test that can conclusively prove that no heavy metal burden remains. Remember that mercury has a specific affinity for the brain. When you test for heavy metals, you cannot test the brain itself - unless you're willing to undergo a neural biopsy which, of course, is an utterly impractical proposition.

You have not described what your daughter's health issue has been (i.e. her symptoms - are/were they mostly neurological or physiological?), but, if you do sufficient research, you will find reports of many individuals who, for example, used various natural substances in an attempt to chelate mercury from the body, some of whom experienced some early success, but then had major worsening of symptoms as time went on. It is vital to understand that removing mercury from the body is NOT the same as removing mercury from the brain. If one has symptoms of mercury toxicity in the organs, for example, these might be alleviated temporarily through the use of cilantro, only to find, weeks or months later, that many neurological symptoms may begin to manifest because the cilantro allowed mercury to exit the organs and travel across the blood-brain barrier.

Please note that sulphur and cilantro do not 'neutralise' mercury - no practical solution currently exists to accomplish neutralisation of mercury. Mercury remains hazardous to the human body, regardless of what substance someone injects, ingests or whatever. All one can currently do is inject/ingest one or more substances with the hopeful aim of successfully 'detaching' mercury (or other heavy metals) from their current locations within the various cells of the body, and (hopefully) successfully escorting them out of the body without inadvertently dropping them and/or causing further oxidative damage in the process. Substances such as DMSA, DMPS, and ALA apparently achieve a more reliable chemical bond with heavy metals than do substances such as sulphur, and are thus less likely to let go of them before they've been escorted from the body via the bile/bowel or the urinary system.

I'm not a chemist and I make no claims to such. However, Andy Cutler does have the necessary qualifications and if you read his books you'll attain a thorough understanding of the principles I am attempting to summarise here.

Please note that I am not personally decreeing that people must not consume MSM if they have heavy metal issues - as I stated earlier, some heavy metal intoxicated patients have experienced problems with MSM, not all. However, I am urging them to be 'safe rather than sorry' and at least avoid it until they've read up on the potential hazards and can then make a better-informed decision for themselves.Ebmin7b5's symptoms that I discussed in my original post do match those of mercury poisoning, and she additionally stated that these symptoms seem to worsen or reduce according to her consumption of MSM. I merely pointed out that there was a correlation which I offered a possible logical explanation for. I have nothing personally against MSM and I was fortunate that although I do have heavy metal intoxication, my usage of MSM left me unscathed :)

I'm happy for you that your daughter appears to have made some health improvement using natural substances. When I researched heavy metals for my own needs, I desperately wanted to heal myself using only natural substances (partly why I bought lots of chlorella and some NDF), but the more I read, the more I was forced to concede that this is not the safest way to go for anyone who does not want to unnecessarily risk their neurological health.

To reiterate: Redistribution is a major risk when ingesting substances which alter the chemical bonds of metals within body tissues, and this redistribution might, in some cases, result in apparent remission of symptoms but it does not necessarily imply that the metal has actually left the body. I know of no test that can conclusively prove that no heavy metal burden remains. ...Mercury has a specific affinity for the brain. When you test for heavy metals, you cannot test the brain itself - unless you're willing to undergo a neural biopsy. The link I posted in the previous answer (http://whatidontknow.net/blog/playing-with-fire/) discusses someone's personal experience of the potential dangers of using cilantro for chelation purposes.

As I said, I'm not trying to scare people, or to dictate to them what substances to ingest - I'm just discussing possible connections and alerting them to possible hazards to help people make more informed choices - their own choices. After all, isn't that what this whole thread has been about - unforeseen and regrettable symptoms arising from consumption of MSM? (irrespective of whether the mechanism underlying the symptoms was directly caused by MSM or only indirectly).

This thread started out as someone feeling frustrated with MSM and I have been at pains to point out that MSM might not necessarily have been directly responsible for what that person experienced - in that sense, I've indirectly reassured people about MSM, I suppose. The heavy metals connection only arose because of the experiences and symptoms Ebmin7b5 described :)

Nonetheless, I wish you and your daughter well. I hope all works out for you both.

[Arky]

Raw Angel Mom, I just wanted to add a little to what I typed yesterday. Unfortunately, I was at work when I typed the above reply, yesterday, so I was rushing, in between various other tasks, to type and post without getting into trouble.

What I said then still stands - namely, that there are very serious risks attached to the use of natural substances such as cilantro etc. with heavy metal issues.

That said, it wasn't my intention to imply that use of such substances does not do any good - it is quite possible that you have succeeded in removing some heavy metal burden from your daughter's body.

In a nutshell, then, my intention was to say that yes, natural substances can play a part in chelation, just as specialised synthetic substances can (e.g. DMSA, DMPS), but the critical point when making decisions regarding which options to use is their relative degrees of risk-vs-safety.


Again, there's a very, very brief overview of a few chelation approaches in the following blog entry (not mine):

tinyurl.com/64sxy5q



As I mentioned yesterday, I am a very 'natural health' oriented person, and was eager to use natural substances for my own chelation efforts, even buying a few hundred dollars worth of chlorella, NDF etc. However, it was only when I delved deeper into the topic (something experience has taught me the value; even necessity, of doing) that I began to learn the basics of the chemistry of chelation and the attendant risks of using non-specialised substances for chelation purposes.

Unfortunately, many people do not appreciate the value of deeper research into topic areas which affect their health and I myself was almost a victim of this - only hard experience of past mistakes relating to insufficient research in other health areas led me to the habit I now have of digging deeper these days. In my 'digging deeper' into the subject of heavy metals chelation, I will forever be thankful for the efforts of Andy Cutler, who has been a guiding light for me and thousands of others in this subject area. He's an unassuming man who personally experienced mercury poisoning and who, by good fortune, had the intelligence and requisite technical education and training to tackle the chemical complexities of the subject area. By further good fortune, he he's also a socially-responsible human being who has chosen to share his valuable meta-research and insights with others. On a theoretical level, chelation can be a very complex topic which relatively few people have the qualifications or training to understand (and which is why it is tempting to take shortcuts in the belief that anything truly natural 'must be safe'). I myself lack the qualifications and training to understand complex chemically-orientated research papers and textbooks - Cutler, though, has presented this information in a distilled, summarised, accessible format, which has allowed me sufficient understanding to understand the aforementioned potential risks/pitfalls and thus to make informed choices.


Consequently, I urge you (and anyone else reading this who suspects they may have heavy-metal-related health issues) to acquaint yourself with his writings (perhaps your local library might be willing to obtain them on your behalf?).