Animal Cruelty and feeding BARF to dogs

[freespirit]

check this site out-

http://www.hare-today.com/

if you order in bulk shipping will be a lot lower. They seem to care for their animals, despite having to slaughter in the end.

[tracyB]

Hey! I feed my dogs (2 shepherds, ones 40# the other's 55) raw- it's been 2 months & I have seen incredible results- but first, I want to answer Eva's question about how to feed them without touching the meat... I use tongs. I buy mostly chicken legs & wings for my dogs because they are precut & I take them out of the packaging w/ tongs & put them into the dogs bowls, after putting in their codliver oil & flax seed, then I put some warm water over everything & I bring the bowls outside or in the garage (depending on the weather), they do fine eating o/o the bowls (plus afterwards they love the chicken flavored water w/ EFAs). I used to cut everything up into bitesize peices & hand feed them- but they now have learned to chew & break up their food on their own- which is better for them anyways (they used to just swallow everything whole). Same thing w/ red meat- I precut up everything when I bring it home from the grocery so that I can just take it out each day- I put portion sizes into ziploc bags. and also, if your dog is over 1 yr old, most of my research (I am taking courses from clayton college on holistic companion animal studies) indicates that once daily feedings is optimal so your animal has time to adequately digest it's food. my dogs do well on once daily feedings. I will give them treats (veggies or melons) throughout the day as needed, and I'll give them a second feeding only if we exercised more than usual. these dogs are in excellent health & filled w/ so much energy!
hope this helps!
Tracy, Alo & Jasper

[Ilse W.]

I will feed my dog vegan as soon as I am willing to eat nothing but cooked meat. We both will probably succumb to the same awful disease very quickly.

Eva, I buy whole chickens (just got some today for 67 cents/pound). Foster Farms chicken does not have hormones. In fact, Washington state has a law that no chicken grown in the state is allowed to have hormones, so I don't buy organic. I cut the chickens into 4 pieces. I just hand Max one of the pieces on his way out the door and he takes it to the lawn and eats it. I also buy a whole pork shoulder at Costco (I trust Costco as far as meat quality is concerned) and cut it into 14-15 oz. pieces (the amount of meat Max is supposed to have twice a day) and put it in his dish outside the kitchen door, and throw in a piece of legbone w/meat, which comes from my local farm store. I buy organ meat (mostly beef liver) from my farm store. Their beef comes from free range animals.

[Emma-Liza]

I'm by no means knowledgeable about BARF, but just wanted to ask/suggest, what about fish? You can buy them already frozen, or at many markets alive until you purchase so you know how fresh they are. The dog could get the innards as well as the flesh, bones, etc. which is how it would be if they got one themselves. A fish is more along the lines of the size animal a dog could catch by himself (so is a chicken or rabbit, of course!), whereas a cow or pig would definitely not be....just a thought.

[Eva]

Thank you all so much for the tips!!! My mom is begrudgingly feeding him the animal bones again, but I will suggest the tongs. The only thing is that if you don't hand feed my dog the bones, he likes to drag the food around while he is getting to it. That is so gross! And my mom has carpet -- so double gross!

I have heard of people sticking their dogs in the bathtub to eat. I don't know why I never suggested the idea to her.

freespirit--I looked at the hare today web site. Looks good for maybe ordering some meat to send to my mom for Boli.

EmmaT--Sounds great to live in a state where such things are illegal. Sigh. I'm sure that is not the case in FL. Thanks for the laugh, might I add.

EmmaLisa--I've never really given him fish. I'll have to look into that. My mom is currently reading Dr. Pitcairn's book to see what she can glean from that. It's supposed to be a great book.

[Eva]

shashibala: Thanks for your comments. I respect your choice, but my dog has thrived only on BARF. Even on the fancy kibble and a mix of other veggie food, he becomes grouchy and his energy decreases. He's 8 and has had many health issues in his life, before his time. I will probably never buy or even adopt an animal again. I love them, but I don't like to have to make this decision. In the meantime, "I" (really my mom has adopted him until I'm through with my travels) have a dog that I would like to see thrive and be happy.

LOL, it's even his name. Boli is short for boldog, which means "happy" in Hungarian. He was born to be happy. :)

[Emma-Liza]

Eva--

I too hate to handle raw meat.

We started off years ago with Dr. Pitcairn's recipes and have adjusted them. While I use cooked meat, your mom could use Dr.P's proportions of meat to veggie for an all raw diet for your smaller dog. Frozen, thawed fish, ground meat, or small boneless parts can be dumped from the pkg to the fp without touching.

Pitcairn mixes meat, grain/starch, and vegetables roughly by thirds. You can do this by weight or volume; it doesn't seem to matter. I've modified this to be 1/3 protein / 2/3 mixed vegetables (half starchy ones like peas beets, and winter squash, half higher water content ones like parsley, carrots, broccoli, green beans--all the intensely colored veggies). Raw berries in small amounts, herbs, and tender greens work well, too. Mince everything finely in fp.

Scoop from fp into containers with a rubber spatula or use dry measure measuring cups. Fp parts, containers, everything can go into the dishwasher. No touching! We feed the same amount by volume that we would kibble.

I have senior dogs, so I don't feed them as much protein as I would if they were younger and more active.

[Lynn Parry Jones]

Hi,

Reading this thread I notice that you say onions, garlic, chocolate are dangerous for dogs, the list should also contain grapes (my dog Bertie used to love them) raison, macademia nuts are also very bad for our best friends.

Lvoe Lynn xx

[Eva]

Eva--

I too hate to handle raw meat.

We started off years ago with Dr. Pitcairn's recipes and have adjusted them. While I use cooked meat, your mom could use Dr.P's proportions of meat to veggie for an all raw diet for your smaller dog. Frozen, thawed fish, ground meat, or small boneless parts can be dumped from the pkg to the fp without touching.

Pitcairn mixes meat, grain/starch, and vegetables roughly by thirds. You can do this by weight or volume; it doesn't seem to matter. I've modified this to be 1/3 protein / 2/3 mixed vegetables (half starchy ones like peas beets, and winter squash, half higher water content ones like parsley, carrots, broccoli, green beans--all the intensely colored veggies). Raw berries in small amounts, herbs, and tender greens work well, too. Mince everything finely in fp.

Scoop from fp into containers with a rubber spatula or use dry measure measuring cups. Fp parts, containers, everything can go into the dishwasher. No touching! We feed the same amount by volume that we would kibble.

I have senior dogs, so I don't feed them as much protein as I would if they were younger and more active.

Wow, what a great idea. I don't know how I just saw this!

My mom started feeding Boli dry kibble over the last few months. I got here (in FL), and he is SO FAT! He has gained something like 5 pounds (a lot for a King Charles Spaniel). Poor guy. I don't know what to do with the kibble, maybe donate it somewhere? But he has only gotten green smoothies and organic gizzards since I got back. I really like the idea of 2/3 veggies and 1/3 meat. I am actually going to look into totally vegetarian or possibly just including eggs for protein.

[Eva]

Hi,

Reading this thread I notice that you say onions, garlic, chocolate are dangerous for dogs, the list should also contain grapes (my dog Bertie used to love them) raison, macademia nuts are also very bad for our best friends.

Lvoe Lynn xx

YES!!!! Thank you Lynn! Isn't it crazy how sometimes we and our furry friends love the things that are bad for us!?

[Eva]

For anyone who cares about this... just a quick update that "Boli Broccoli" (my furry companion who is staying with my mom for a bit...) is now 100% RAW VEGAN and THRIVING.

Go figure.

I finally came to the conclusion that, he will just have to "deal" with no meat because we are NOT going to be a part of the disgusting reality those animals go through between "life" slaughter and the store...

But then he is thriving.

So, there ya go. :)

[kaybee]

YAY! :) mines still vegan and doing well. id love to try her on raw vegan but its just not possible for at the moment. she loves nanners and melon though.

[drolemil]

Congrats are on your decision! I agree a hundred percent. :)

Most dogs are able to adapt just fine to a vegan diet. While it might not be as amazing to their health as feeding them barf, I don't think that makes it necessary to have many lives sacrificed for my dog's one single life.

[Eva]

YAY! :) mines still vegan and doing well. id love to try her on raw vegan but its just not possible for at the moment. she loves nanners and melon though.

Kaybee ~ you and your skinny dog are just so dang cool. :)

Congrats are on your decision! I agree a hundred percent. :)

Most dogs are able to adapt just fine to a vegan diet. While it might not be as amazing to their health as feeding them barf, I don't think that makes it necessary to have many lives sacrificed for my dog's one single life.

So good the way you put it! That's exactly the same thinking process I went through... I LOVE me some Boli Broccoli, he's such a sweetheart... but I think this is the last time I will "own" a dog or any animal... There is so much joy but so much more sacrifice that goes into having an animal companion. That was a torturous decision for me, whether to stick with BARF or to feed him a vegan diet... but in the end I was just so sad and grossed out thinking about the animals.

[kaybee]

eva-- i checked if her weight was ok with the vet last time i had her in... shes so athletic and shes very trim. people are used to seeing fat boxers, and shes just a very refined frame anyway. he looked at her back end and said he wished that some of the racing greyhounds he has come in had the kind of muscling she had in her loin area. so yeah, i think we're ok ;p little does he know he just complimented a vegan dog, lol.

i agree on the "While it might not be as amazing to their health as feeding them barf, I don't think that makes it necessary to have many lives sacrificed for my dog's one single life." I've never fed BARF and dont plan to. its conceivable to me that it could be the most biologically appropriate diet, but if my dog can be happy and healthy and thrive on vegan (which she is), i just cant conceive of all those other living breathing creatures being required to die to feed my dog. Over a dog's lifetime, thats likely hundreds of other creatures who's death would be required to feed this one animal. Its inconceivable and unjustifiable to me, so we'll keep doing what we're doing. :)