please oh please help

[Pailani]

there are lots of raw foods that are less healthy than some simple cooked foods and as a new raw fooder you most likely eat some of them (unhealthy raw foods). You can bet that if most raw fooders don't know this, the people you'll be eating with don't know it either.

At a typical Thanksgiving meal, what would those foods be?

I imagine that her family will be watching like a hawk to see if she eats the turkey and stuffing and pumpkin pie - the meat ("for protein") and the standard holiday traditional foods (to "prove" that she's normal and not extreme).

[StudentforLife]

Wow, that is really unfortunate.

I don't know how possible this is with you being in college and all, but maybe you could bring a raw decadent dessert with you and not tell your relatives that it's raw. I know Alissa has a pecan pie recipe in her book, and I saw a post on here about chocolate cheesecake.

Even cooked food eaters love these and don't know it's raw until you tell them, just don't tell them. Then you yourself can pig out on it and appear to look unhealthy with the rest of them.

I think the important thing to remember is that you are an adult now. No matter what decision you make, make it with dignity and confidence. You can't let them see your insecurities.

Like a rock, baby, like a rock!

[Amberly]

I suggest sticking to your guns.

If yo uwaver then he will think that you are not really sure of your decision, and that you must not really have researched the idea enough to truly feel it is best.

It will take time for him to get used to.

My parents are just beginning to accept that I am an atheist.

Good Luck.

[Lay-Lay]

I've been reading this thread and holding back on some advice, but after reading the myriad of suggestions these are my thoughts.

You are an adult.

Whether or not he's your father, whether or not he's paying for your school, whether or not he thinks you have an eating disorder, it is no longer his problem.

He can worry, threaten, humiliate and intimidate you all he can, and you can let him do it, take it personally or not.

But this is YOUR body now, you are no longer under his care or responsibility.

When you lend or give someone money, it is his business how he spends it.

When you have someone over for dinner, it is his business what and how he chooses to eat.

You eat what YOU want on Thanksgiving, not what HE wants you to eat. If you want raw, eat it. If you want cooked, than eat it. You do not need to make excuses or explanations or apologies as to what YOU want to eat.

And by him gossiping to other family members untruths about you, he's going to have to deal with his OWN consequences, it is HIS problem, not yours.

What you have to work on here is how to not let that bother you or make you sick. Work on being happy in your life and not allowing it to torment you, because he will see that and take advantage.

Make no apologies, this is where you are in your life, and this is where he is in his life.

When he sees that you are comfortable and happy and healthy, things will turn around, but if you are in any way giving him messages of your weakness, he will pick up on that.

I wish you all the best - this is a time for love, family, freedom and thankfullness. I hope you each find that in one another.

I ditto that!

[yeahbethany]

I just watched the following video yesterday, and it is perfect and very inspiring. Lennie talks about compassionate eating for a peaceful world, and she addresses a lot of the social/family issues involved with being veg/vegan/raw.

http://www.archive.org/details/Organ..._Lennie_Mowris

Hope this helps!

Love,
Bethany

[Sharon in Colorado]

I just watched the following video yesterday, and it is perfect and very inspiring. Lennie talks about compassionate eating for a peaceful world, and she addresses a lot of the social/family issues involved with being veg/vegan/raw.

http://www.archive.org/details/Organ..._Lennie_Mowris

Hope this helps!

Love,
Bethany

That was a great video, Bethany, I posted it in a new thread, I'm hoping more people will watch it.

It's all good, but the social aspect of it starts about a third of the way through.

[star1919]

Hi Bittersweet...


I admire your writing your Dad regarding your feelings about this. Even if he didn't respond at this time... you have given him an opportunity to know how you feel. That has value.

It is easy to understand... your feeling nervous about your trip home for Thanksgiving. However you decide to handle it, I encourage you to stay positive with yourself and your choices... to remind yourself that most of the time (at college) you can freely choose what you eat without this pressure.

When I first started eating raw vegan, the question or concern I heard the most was about protein. What I realized is that many people have an idea of what they consider 'healthy eating'. And, they believe that as strongly as some of us do about raw vegan. So, if they express concern... it is often well intended and something they truly believe.

I have learned not to dispute that or try to convince anyone about my choices or theirs. What we eat in a day... is a choice each of us makes with conviction or just out of habit. I prefer to seek common ground in those situations... talking about other things positively. I am very respectful of others beliefs and opinions. It helps.

My guess is that your Dad cares a lot about you... which is why he cares what you're eating. And, helping you with college etc. So, even if there are things you don't agree about... there is value in that care, and in a family. It doesn't sound like he has handled this very well with you... but as time goes on he may be more accepting of it... especially if he sees how healthy and happy you are.

All the best to you with this...

[goodbeets]

Have you ever asked him this? If you did what YOU want/needed for your body would he quit paying for school? How about if you took a course on nutrition and did your final paper on raw foods? Would he accept any information like books or articles on vegetarianism? Veganism? Raw? If he totally freaks out then maybe just duck and get through college. I know it is important to stick to your guns but if it is in front of a missle, well then, there will be know chance to teach him later like when he holds his grandchild and accepts you a teensy weensy bit more like an adult. There is usually lots of squash at thanksgiving!! I hope all these replies are not making things any worse for you.

[ilovesalads]

Bittersweet,
my advice to you is that in all your actions, words, thoughts, and speech--just do it with love.
this earth school is here to test us all--whether diet or health, if we have love nothing can go wrong.

so prepare yourself for your family as i have done in the past on every holiday, by helping prepare the food, creating a beautiful dish (my signature rainbow fruit salad) or simply by saying the prayer before the dinner thanking the divine for who we are and the energy and the nourishment the food will provide.

trust me, i come from a family who i have challenged, but thru time they have come to accept what i believe and do.

shakti love.

[rawnora]

At a typical Thanksgiving meal, what would those foods be?

It depends on how much cooperation a person could get from the one doing the cooking because, ideally, things should be cooked as lightly as possible and not be made too complicated with toppings, condiments, spices, etc. Like simple cooked yams (with butter if necessary, but no margarine) would be okay, but the monstrosity that is more often seen at Thanksgiving -- canned yams topped with marshmallows, etc. -- would not.

Proper combining would be important and would greatly decrease the potential for negative after-effects (symptoms). If a person wanted to avoid meat, yams or potatoes would combine well with other veggies and salad. If meat was acceptable, simple, unadorned meats like roast turkey, chicken or beef (no ham!) would combine well with salad or non-starchy veggies. These foods could all be eaten in small quantities, just for appearances, and the person could bring lots of raw foods to eat as well.

My previous comments notwithstanding, if bringing supplemental raw food is out of the question, I'd seriously think about finding other ways to finance my education, because nobody should be so threatened over another person's eating habits that they make her empty her purse at the door.

Warm regards,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[ShelShel]

Ok...I read all the posts and I have to say this. Yes, RawNora...I totally agree with you. Absolutely, in a healthy SAD family yams would be lightly cooked with only butter...unfortunately, if she is looking at all at a family like mine...watch out! Let the death by food start here.
Typical SAD Thanksgiving in our neck of the woods...Turkey basted in butter, stuffed with stuffing that has bread crumbs (already seasoned...who knows what hides in there) :add butter, eggs, celery,parmesean cheese, and hot water. Followed by gravy that hasn't had all the fat drained from it before making and a bit of butter added at the end. Next there are those yams discussed above, but before the marshmellows are placed, you top the yams with butter and brown sugar...the veggies that are actually offered come from a can. The mashed potatoes offered would be ok if not for all the milk and butter added to make them creamy! The list goes on and on. At least in our home. And I said this to say...where in that paragraph of food lies the one piece of raw food? No where. And that is probably her problem in all this.
HOWEVER, I still feel...if he's paying for your education...this can make or break your future. Eat the stupid meal...move on when you leave his house, with the complete understanding that it's not perfect, but what is in this world?!?! Before raw, you probably ate this stuff all the time...what's the harm in one meal? Like RawNora said, don't let it get you to backslide. Who knows though...if you are anything like me...you will almost pass out after eating it...and sleep for several hours. That should shock him a bit! Perhaps after that he will understand what's wrong with the cooked food and your system! My husband only had to watch it happen a few times before he encouraged me to go 100% raw! And he's a SAD eater still.
Sometimes we can't change the circumstances around us...we must do our best to survive them and move on. When you finish school is the time to confront your dad...not before. You want this education...you do not want to be stuck paying for it for years. All he wants is a normal SAD meal...go for it. Then get right back on track. Don't sweat the little stuff. ;)

[PantryRaider]

Who knows though...if you are anything like me...you will almost pass out after eating it...and sleep for several hours. That should shock him a bit! Perhaps after that he will understand what's wrong with the cooked food and your system! ;)

I don't miss that feeling like a beached whale after eating Thanksgiving dinner. Although I don't think I am even more than 50% raw at this point (hey I just embarked on this raw journey a couple months ago), I stopped making the "traditional" Thanksgiving dinner about 6 years ago. I have been a low-or-no fat purist since being diagnosed with terminal heart disease, and I just won't eat anything unless I know what is in it.

Anyway... the bottom line is that my relatives no longer invite me to Thanksgiving dinner and I no longer invite them. I think I have been too vocal about a lot of dietary issues. No one wants to hear they shouldn't eat that cooked high fat crap. Anyway, this has nothing to do with being raw or not... but, everything to do with one's dietary choices and whether it fits in with everyone elses conception or perception of what one should consume on Thanksgiving. At this point (as last year), I imagine I will again spend this Thanksgiving in a rather solitary manner. Such is life when one remains true to their diet convictions.

I plan to fix some raw or nearly raw fare for my own pleasure for Thanksgiving day... and then afterward.... go out to a nature trail here and maybe go for a the solitude of a 4 mile run by myself. Oddly enough, I am kinda looking forward to that.

The interesting part of all this is that I introduced my 84 year old father to green smoothies on October 14. He likes them! Imagine my surprise to find out that he drinks them every day! I think I should ask him if he wants to skip dinner at the other side of the family and go for a walk in the woods instead.

[star1919]

Hey Bittersweet... What matters is what is right for you.

Family and friendships can be such an important part of our lives.

You are worthy of your parent's help with college... they want the best for you.

[bittersweet]

Those are great posts above, and I can see the sense in going either way.

Another consideration is, how much 'normal' food would you have to eat to keep the peace? If it's only one dinner, it might be worth eating a few cooked but well-chosen, well-combined foods. Eating raw is not a religion. It should be about being healthy, not some strict principle that doesn't make any sense objectively. In other words, there are lots of raw foods that are less healthy than some simple cooked foods and as a new raw fooder you most likely eat some of them (unhealthy raw foods). You can bet that if most raw fooders don't know this, the people you'll be eating with don't know it either. You'll be able to give the appearance of abusing yourself without really doing so. :)

Whether you can get away with it physically without feeling awful the next day will depend on how long you've been raw, and whether you can eat small quantities and draw the line at those few designated foods without going into a full blown backsliding frenzy.

If your education is being paid for in full, that's a lot to lay on the line for the sake of your diet. And if it's just Thanksgiving, it is only one meal. Your dad probably feels like he has a right to say what you should do with your life for now, even perhaps down to the way you take care of yourself, if he's making such a big investment in you. That's the way it works with parents sometimes.

I'm not sure which way I'd go, but I think you should give yourself some slack and forgive yourself if you do have to compromise. Principles are great but they don't pay the bills. You have to think about what serves *your* long term best interests.

Well I think we have all possible angles covered now! :) However, I think it's important that you not take any of our comments too much to heart since only you know all the factors that are involved. Thanks for asking our thoughts and best of luck w/ whatever you decide to do.

Kind regards,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

While I appreciate these kind words I feel as though they don't help. Although I have only been raw vegan for about a year and a half, I do not feel like a beginner. In fact, I feel as though I have a very refined diet. I eat a lowfat hygine-style diet, mostly mono fruits.
I also eat some fresh greens, etc. but I do not eat gourmet food, and the closest I get to a recipe is a blended salad/soup type meal, and that is only occationally. Even Lara bars make me feel sick. More than a few bites of avocado, and I feel less well. Thus, no way I can just make raw recipes and get by.
I really don't know what to do. I'm still panicking.
Sharon's post felt closest to what I need, but I am still fretting so badly that I'm not sleeping.
Any thoughts? Please...

[rawnora]

While I appreciate these kind words I feel as though they don't help. Although I have only been raw vegan for about a year and a half, I do not feel like a beginner. In fact, I feel as though I have a very refined diet. I eat a lowfat hygine-style diet, mostly mono fruits.
I also eat some fresh greens, etc. but I do not eat gourmet food, and the closest I get to a recipe is a blended salad/soup type meal, and that is only occationally. Even Lara bars make me feel sick. More than a few bites of avocado, and I feel less well. Thus, no way I can just make raw recipes and get by.
I really don't know what to do. I'm still panicking.
Sharon's post felt closest to what I need, but I am still fretting so badly that I'm not sleeping.
Any thoughts? Please...

As I mentioned, a lot of what you'll need to do will depend on your specific circumstances, and you have to remember that we are offering advice without having all the relevant information. It's true that a brand new raw fooder would have less of a problem with the physical after-effects than someone who's been eating mono for a year or more. On the other hand, a long term raw fooder would have less of a tendency to let the situation develop into a serious backslide. So there are advantages on both sides.

The way you're eating currently reveals a lot of commitment and resolve on your part. Incorporating a hygienic-style diet into our lives involves a major shift in the way we socialize and otherwise conduct our lives. Your dad clearly has no idea the seriousness with which you've undertaken this attempt to be the healthiest you can be. It is an extremely responsible and commendable thing you've done. It is sad that something so worthy of pride is being condemned, essentially. I have to say that knowing a bit more about the situation, I tend also to agree more with Sharon's comments.

Obviously there are going to be no easy answers. I hope you find a way to deal with the situation without it costing you either your education or the great progress you've made with your diet.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com