Wisslewj 'just not vegan' posts

[Indi]

'I would be happy to offer advice for correcting this issue further if you desire. The answer is raw, just not vegan.'

God Bless
Jeff
wisslewj@yahoo.com

I found this response on the thread that BDraw started about green smoothies.

I have also clicked on a link left by wisslewj, about introducing raw meat into the diet.

Over the last couple of days, I have noticed wisslewj leaving several similar posts indicating that such things as teeth problems, hair shedding and sugar problems can be corrected by eating a raw NON vegan diet.

I know that wisslewj is not directly posting advice, rather suggesting that individuals contact direct.

However, i really do feel that this is inappropriate considering this is a RAW VEGAN SITE!

I am beginning to question your motives wisslewj!

[Sharon in Colorado]

Yes it is not a good idea to attempt to direct those away from raw plant food.

I remember a site called rawplus that would certainly be open to discussions like that.

Please continue to post here though - your raw vegan thoughts are always welcome.

[Revvell]

Did you email him? Seems that would be the most direct way to contact someone.

Revvell

[Amberly]

"Yes it is not a good idea to attempt to direct those away from raw plant food."

I understand that this is a raw vegan board, and that what we discuss is raw vegan food, but some people go so far as to make it sound like a religion/dogma. It gets a little scary at that point. Images of crusader and witch hunters come into my mind when I see comments like this.

I enjoy posting here and learning about raw food lifestyles, but I am not interested in joining a cult. I do not think this board was intended to be one.

[SwishTN]

If Alissa uses honey in recipes, which she does, would that be vegan?

Is this truly a raw vegan board, or is that what a lot of people would like it to be.

Just a question.

I agree with Revvell..... why not contact people directly?

Maybe this is a raw vegan board, yet, I have never been super clear on that.

Lauri

[RowanC]

Seems to me that it should be ok to ask someone to contact them privately about something that cannot be discussed in this group.

I mean, raw vegan may be perfect for one person but not necessarily another and to censor someone from even mentioning meat or dairy reminds me of the SouthPark episode on the 4 letter word we use for defecating... I laughed til I thought I'd die.

Anyway... I understand you don't want meat or dairy discussed on this VEGAN RAW site. But to keep someone from contacting another person privately reeks a little too strongly of censorship. We're all adults. I'm sure my day won't fall apart if someone says, "Hey, contact me personally to discuss this."

:::ducking so she doesn't get hit by raw tomatoes::::

[Sharon in Colorado]

Amberly this is the way Alissa wants it. She pays for the board and we are using it here as guests. To me it is like asking people not to smoke in your home. Nothing wrong with that.

Sorry you see it as a cult. Most people viewing this board are likely not even 100% raw or vegan all of the time, but the discussion is supposed to be a support group for those who want to be all raw and vegan.

[Revvell]

Ditto.......

Revvell

Amberly this is the way Alissa wants it. She pays for the board and we are using it here as guests. To me it is like asking people not to smoke in your home. Nothing wrong with that.

Sorry you see it as a cult. Most people viewing this board are likely not even 100% raw or vegan all of the time, but the discussion is supposed to be a support group for those who want to be all raw and vegan.

[luckitri]

Personally I found that wisslewjs link to enzymes helped me to understand it better than anything else I have read. Now I am trying to be able to order Alissa's since I read the information that he presented even though it was not vegan. I see the difficulty with the desires of this board (mission statement) and the fact that the board is a wonderful wonderful resource and a public service and I don't know where the boundary should be drawn but I have appreciated his information although it has not tempted me to leave raw vegan anymore than I would have otherwise.....I read a link to that guy whose name I cannot remember right - A something V something that he cured himself eating raw meat. I believe that he did this many years ago when our meat supply was safer. I would not dare consider this option today with all the growth hormones, antibiotics and diseased animals being sold for meat today. Where did I just read that 777 mad cows were eaten in the US this year? I am not offended by his information. I have found that it has enhanced my understanding. I appreciate what he has posted because again - it has increased my understanding of raw vegan diet. So the desire to be dedicated purist may slow down or stop the information exchange. He has posted links that I never would have found on my own. (Or at least haven't so far.) I have learned to value open-mindedness and information exchange most in my life so that is me.

[Rawkinlocs]

I think the bottom line here is not that someone is saying, "Hey, contact me for more info" but IMHO, it's the underlying message behind it. I mean, this board is supposed to be a place of support for those who wish to be raw vegan/vegetarian (and no, Lauri, honey is not vegan but - well, if you do a quick search, we've gone down the honey debate road a few times so that is why I always make reference to the board being raw vegan/vegetarian because meat, dairy and eggs are not advocated here) and there just seems to be this undertone in some of those postings that says, "Pssst...Raw vegan diets are not optimal - if you want to truly thrive on a raw diet, you're gonna have to include some raw dairy at the very least if you want those tooth, hair, etc. issues to go away".

But you all are right, you can't stop someone from contacting an individual. People can and will make decisions on what they want to do - vgloveforlife in one thread actually told him in so few words, "Thanks, but no thanks". However, there are also a lot of newbies who don't need all these mixed messages being sent as they try to figure this all out...if they came here to learn more about the raw vegan/vegetarian diet, then they don't need to hear all the contradicting information, on HERE (there's plenty of it in other places) because this site was designed to support those seeking out the raw vegan/vegetarian diet and how to thrive on THAT. Let's give people some raw vegan/vegetarian solutions to their challenges rather than writing it off totally and saying, "Hey just face it, you're gonna hafta get some raw animal in ya for this to go away!"

Also, just for the record, we are not all adults here on this forum...there are quite a few teens and preteens here posting as well. But aside from that fact, just imagine if someone new to raw comes here and they read those posts and then they're like, "Oh no...if I choose to go raw, I have to eat raw meat or drink raw milk so I don't end up with dental issues or hair loss?! Well, I'm not doing that so I might as well just continue eating what I'm eating!"

But one of the main reasons I posted the "Raw vegan/vegetarian reinforcements" thread is because people need to know that they DON'T need/have to switch to a diet consisting of raw meat and/or dairy in order to thrive - that sometimes people will have issues with teeth and hair and sometimes they won't but when they do, most times it is rectified over time.

So, no, we can't stop someone from offering "alternative" information via email to others, but this thread indicates that while some may not be offended at the suggestions given, many are and are speaking up about it.

We'll see what Alissa says about it when she returns home, though.

[Shona]

I think this person posted a link for Weston Price which is extremely anti-vegetarian. I've had past encounters on vegetarian/vegan forums with people from WP ... I find them quite annoying. I don't troll the meat forums trying to convert people to veg*nism. Sheesh.

[Sharon in Colorado]

I don't troll the meat forums trying to convert people to veg*nism. Sheesh.

LOL Shona - are there any meat forums? Let's go check them out! ;)

Well, they don't particularly offend me although I think if there weren't any guidelines in place, I could see it getting out of hand with a bunch of threads popping up about eating animal products, recipes, lots of people asking questions about what kind of animal product to eat, it could get ugly.

That is why the raw plus message boards were created, for those who do eat it and like to discuss the 'benefits' of it.

[dreamrawalwz]

This is how I see it...it's pretty simple and straight forward. This is a raw vegan board for those that wish to be raw and VEGAN. There shouldn't be discussions of meat, egg, or dairy on here. I think even contacting in private to someone who WISHES to be vegan (or toying with the idea) about how we need meat/dairy/eggs isn't respectful. As someone previously mentioned...many are lurking and just starting out on this path. Mixed messages are extremely comfusing and I don't think helpful. People are here to learn about the health benefits of being raw veganism, if not just being vegan. They're here to learn that you don't "have" to eat animal products to remain healthy. This is not a cult at all. I'm sorry some see it that way. We're all after the optimal level of health and on our own journey. There are a few simple rules here for a reason and we should all respect that.

[keylime]

I think the info. that wisslewj has posted- and the way it has been written- is respectful. Indeed this is a "vegan" forum, however, folks need to be open in their search for health. As a naturopathic doctor, I know from years of personal experience with my clients that switching from processed fare to whole foods provides ground for miraculous health improvements, HOWEVER, most of these same clients reach a "cleansing plateau" and only continue in their upward climb after adding small amounts of organic, raw animal products to their diet....as much as I wish to believe otherwise- I see this year after year...after year. One person putting his information out there for others to contact him if interested is not going to cause major upheaval in this forum.

[Revvell]

Well, who is this person and what does he know? He says he's studied this and that....

The point is, Alissa pays for this site and it is for people looking for support in
the raw food lifestyle AS SHE WRITES IT in her book and in her mission statement.

Just as people tend to complicate and convolute everything else, this has become convoluted and complicated.

IF Jeff wants to be so helpful then, let him get and pay for his own site, his own forum AND his own book and dvd's.

Alissa has shown through her own experiences and those of her clients and students what works for her and them. Personally, I don't know Jeff, his experiences, his training (other than what he just stated in anoter post) and why he's coming to THIS site in particular to do what he's doing.