Wisslewj 'just not vegan' posts

[Rawkinlocs]

I think the info. that wisslewj has posted- and the way it has been written- is respectful. Indeed this is a "vegan" forum, however, folks need to be open in their search for health. As a naturopathic doctor, I know from years of personal experience with my clients that switching from processed fare to whole foods provides ground for miraculous health improvements, HOWEVER, most of these same clients reach a "cleansing plateau" and only continue in their upward climb after adding small amounts of organic, raw animal products to their diet....as much as I wish to believe otherwise- I see this year after year...after year. One person putting his information out there for others to contact him if interested is not going to cause major upheaval in this forum.

That's fine, people can be open to whatever they want, no one here is saying "if you eat meat you'll be killed or you'll die!"...bottom line is everything else outside of what this forum was intended FOR can be researched outside of this forum.

But this site has a purpose that has been clearly outlined by the out-of-pocket-paying forum owner...what is so hard to comprehend or accept about that? Respect Alissa and what she intended for HER board, period!

=====GENERAL STATEMENT AHEAD - NOT DIRECTED AT THE QUOTED=====
I don't even know why we're continuing to "argue" this point. This forum is for the SUPPORT OF the raw vegan/vegetarian diet. All else needs to be taken someplace else. The Rawplus board, as Sharon mentioned, amongst others.

Tell me something, would ANY of you have the gall to go to a cooked vegan, I mean downright vegan where they don't have anything to do with the explotation of animals at all; would you go there and bring up these discussions? Probably not and if you did, that would be VERY disrespectful and you'd probably be banned for it and with good reason because a vegan forum is very specific...it's not a cult, it's just serving a specific purpose for a group of like-minded individuals. Why is it that when it comes to a raw vegan/vegetarian board, people think they can and should be able to say whatever they want here and then when people get called out on it, we get accused of being too censoring or we get called a cult?

I also wanted to say that I'm getting a little irritated by the constant references to "dogma" and "cult" being insinuated around here lately due to this drama. Don't you folks realize that some people view the very fact that we're eating RAW, period, as being "strange", "weird", "too extreme"?!

So, to call someone who is adamently vegan dogmatic or what have you, isn't fair. Everyone is zealous about something or other...working out, eating raw, being vegan, being raw paleo, being a Christian, being Wiccan, whatever it is.

One thing I do know for sure is this...Alissa Cohen formed a site for a specific purpose and she has the last say in all of this regarding what is allowed or not allowed on her forum...so, as I mentioned before, we'll see what she has to say about all of this once she returns home from England.

[Gosia]

I think it would be easier for some to comprehend some thoughts presented above if they saw this forum as a guest-room in Alissa's house.

Gosia

[Sharon in Colorado]

Shiva???

Memories.... ((singing an old B.S. tune in my head))

[Revvell]

Memories.... ((singing an old B.S. tune in my head))

Re-incarnation?....

[light&happy]

I take issue with the fact that this is Alissa's forum, or her "house". I believe that I, in part, support this website as well considering I buy Alissa's products. I have also had friends and relatives buy her book and DVD at my suggestion. I also plan on attending her certification class. Of course she pays for the site, which may in part be possible by the fact that we buy her products! I absolutely can not believe that people here are actually being reprimanded for mentioning meat or dairy. This is a DISCUSSION board. People are going to bring up their questions, thoughts and ideas as they pertain to their raw food journey. Why not give your own advice based on your experience and let the questioner make up their own mind? If one is really certain that raw veganism is the best way to health and vitality, than the results will speak for themselves. We don't need to judge those who disagree and suggest that they find a new board to post on unless perhaps there has been some inappropriate profanity that I somehow missed on this subject? Controlling the respectful responses of those trying to be helpful is NOT an open discussion. 99% of the info on this board is on the benefits of raw vegan food. I don't think that anyone will be confused by a few responses about the enzymes in meat products! I agree with the person who posted that the fanatacism about what others say is cult-like. Not good. I am a raw vegan, and as a student of naturopathy, I am interested in what others have to say, whether I agree or not.

[Gosia]

"I take issue with the fact that this is Alissa's forum"

???

Gosia

[light&happy]

I believe that I ment "her forum" as in "her house, she pays for it". As i stated above, I believe that I, along with anyone else who buys her products also supports this site.

[Sharon in Colorado]

I absolutely can not believe that people here are actually being reprimanded for mentioning meat or dairy.

No, it's the suggestion of consuming these products to improve health, not the mention of meat or dairy, which does happen all the time and is perfectly acceptable within the guidelines of the forum.

People ask all the time inquisitively, the difference here is someone advocating people add it to their vegan diets for health reasons.

Many people bring up animal products...

"I had a dream that I ate a big mac"

"I'm trying to get my daughter off dairy"

"What can I substitute for eggs/omeletts?"


This is more like:

"The exclusion of animal products have caused many people to lose hair and have dental problems"

That's the difference.

[Gosia]

Respectfully disagree. It is presumptious to presume (ha ha ha) that just because one buys Alissa's products then they can do whatever they feel like on the forum created by Alissa. No, you don't own this forum. And yes, you do need to obey the rules as specified. The money that you pay for the products, gives you the right to use the products, but not the right to ignore the policy of this forum. And, I'd say that this is a widespread phenomenon (try your luck elsewhere to test this .

Gosia

[Revvell]

I take issue with the fact that this is Alissa's forum, or her "house".

Feel free to although it IS her forum.

We don't need to judge those who disagree and suggest that they find a new board to post on...

Ummm, are you "judging" the "judgers"?

[Rawkinlocs]

As quoted by Alissa in various past threads:

"Its a raw forum for people who are striving to be raw.

This does not mean that you cant participate here if you are not all raw as many here are working towards that and are 'playing' with the percentages that work best for them.

As far as the discussion of eating raw animals and promoting that, no i guess you could say that would not be welcome here as this board was set up for the purpose of getting support and learning more about the raw plant based diet. Not a ‘fanatical vegan raw board’ but people supporting each other in that and not to encourage the consumption of animals.
Btw/ i donÂ’t eat raw milk, cheese or eggs obvious now that ive stated the above I suppose, but...;) "

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"...Im talking about links that point towards boards that slam raw foods, like tom billings site.
Someone wrote a post about the cons of a certain food and then posted his site to back it up. i also 5 minutes later took out a link form someoneÂ’s post about another site where someone was promoting a meat eating diet. Come on people, this is a RAW FOOD SUPPORT BOARD! if you want to read those other sites or gather information on what you need to do and are not sure about raw, fine, go and read them and when you decide you want to do raw, come back and join us. This board is not for the discussion of whether raw is good or bad or for you to decide if its best for you, its for the people who are raw to chat, get advise and support each other!...
Alissa

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"...Please keep in mind that this board is a continuation of what I teach. I originally created this board to go along with the teachings in my book, living on live food. I have let that slide a bit, obviously, because as you all will see there are many ways in which people approach raw food. There are threads on here about other teachers, other techniques and variations on the raw food diet other then what is taught in my book. I decided a while ago that that is fine. I am just happy that people have a place of support to go to and be accepted within the raw food lifestyle. I realize that there are many ways in which people choose to eat raw and everyone is different so I do not have a problem with that. But PLEASE just keep in mind that this is a raw food support board and there are things that wont be tolerated here such as talking about how to transition back to cooked, why eating raw nuts and raw fats are bad for you, and talking about how this diet didnÂ’t work for you.

I personally love to see a post about someone struggling and asking for help because that helps so many. And the posts about the emotional aspects of eating raw and the struggles and obstacles that come up around that, etcÂ… but if you are not convinced of a raw food diet and are feeling that this may not be right for you, then please figure that out before you post on this board with people who are looking for support and encouragement on HOW TO DO THIS and the questions that come up around it. Of course my favorites are the post about how well this is working for you and the amazing benefits you see with raw because that is what encourages others to take the leap and regain their health and their lives."

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"...Second and this is a biggie for this board is that i do not advocate (Weston) Price as I do not agree that eating butter, lamb and the like is healthy. Great, he studies primitive culture, who eats that way now days? No one I have ever seen or met. AndÂ… there have since been many studies such as Campbell's that are now concluding that dairy and meat are not as healthy as a vegan diet.

To be totally honest with you I don’t care to debate this. This is a raw food board and I posted this to bring light to this book that I thought could help people. Please read the mission statement ____. I appreciate your intellect in posts but from what I have seen you seem to be playing the devils advocate in many threads and that is really not what this board is for. These people are not here to debate or think about ‘is this right for me’ they have already decided its what they want to do and they are here to get support and help within that realm. I have already erased many posts from you when you added a link to tom billings and such. If they want to find this info they can easily do so but this board is for people who ‘want to be raw’ plain and simple unlike some of the other boards debating weather this is good for bad.

Please accept my apology if this is taken the wrong way as im not trying to offend you and you seem to offer some very intelligent information on this board, but if you have no desire to be raw vegan then why are you here? It just makes me a little suspicious. Of course there are different paths for nutrition but this board is here to only promote one. Raw veganism.

Thanks for your understanding ---.
Best,
Alissa"

====================

"Hi _____,

Thank you for understanding what I was saying and for taking it the way I meant it. I do think youÂ’re sincere as well. It is difficult not to bring in other paths of nutrition and diet and to debate and give thought to them, while discussing issues about raw diet and nutrition. But I have to somewhere draw the line as things get so out of control so fast on a forum board. So I have decided to draw a hard line about keeping this board only for discussions of help and moving forward and keeping people motivated about this raw vegan diet.

Yes, I understand very well that there are so many conflicting thoughts about diet and nutrition. I wondered for years, about 25 years ago when I become vegetarian, why every book I read said something different about the same item of food. I drove myself crazy reading and searching and experimenting on myself to find the right path. I don’t think there will ever be a common mindset about it, just like, as you stated, religion or philosophy. Its just that if everyone on this board were doubting and posting the negatives that are out there it wouldn’t be much of a place of support. Of course I encourage people to do their research and to read and search and make sure they are not burying their heads in the sand and just taking one persons opinion as their truth. Do a search on line, read more, talk to people, etc… but when you feel this is the place your in and this really feels right to you and you want to explore the beauty of it more and talk about what is right and great and amazing and life changing about this diet, then come on in and join us! Again I had to draw the line at some point about what this board is really for. Anyway, I appreciate your honestly and I hope you will continue to enjoy the board and offer your ‘raw’ advise.
Best,
Alissa"

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Nuff said?

I think this thread has run it's course and I REALLY want Alissa to give her final say on this matter so we can all squash it!

So, until "mama" comes home, this thread is going on lock down and sorry if you don't like that decision, but...