alcohol?

[Atari117]

Sharon in Colorado]

This is quite like your situation. It's just the "stepping out" of your comfort zone, and getting to know others - soon you'll find there ARE others who actually go to college to learn, not to party. Your experience can be so much more than getting wasted with friends...don't think for a moment that this is what it's all about.[/QUOTE]



I know this was not at all directed at anyone. But, I would like to clarify this for my own sake ;)
I am a college student who goes to school to LEARN
I have a 3.7 GPA
I like many things outside of academics, not just partying.
Like I said - I KNOW there is no pointing of fingers but I wanted to set myself apart from the masses!

[eatyourbroccoli]

beer though not raw, is actually very nutritious in general, chock full of vitamins.

i think its very dangerous to make claims like this, when it is very very untrue. beer is essentially fermented sugar..and one of the most toxic things a person can consume.

i forget who originally posted this, but Top 5 Foods People Think Are Good for Them But Arent!

"5- Wine, and alcohol — According to toxicology (the branch of pharmacology that deals with the nature and effects and treatments of poisons), alcohol is classified as a protoplasmic poison, because it is poisoning to both plants and animals - from the smallest microbe to the most complex animal. Alcohol kills microbes but also kills the cells of a complex organism, such as the human being. It is an intoxicant that ruins millions of lives and kills people by the thousand each day, directly or indirectly.Unfortunately, it has become a social habit in many parts of the world to intoxicate oneself with alcohol. This poison habit is so prevalent and is such an intricate part of our lives that is now considered abnormal to abstain from this popular intoxicant. Most health professionals are aware of the ill effects of alcohol, but few will recommend to give it up completely. They will talk about “moderation.” “Drink, they will say, but be moderate.” How can someone be moderate with such an unhealthy and addictive product? To my understanding, moderation is only valid for the healthy factors of life, not unhealthy one. For example, no doctor will tell you, “be moderate in smoking,” although that is what they used to say. Can we be moderate with cocaine too?

Now, my readers should understand that when someone eats a healthy diet, alcohol has an even more disastrous effect on the body. That is because the body has stopped protecting itself from the various poisons found in a modern diet, because it is no longer or less in contact with them. Just like a child who has never taken alcohol will strongly react to it when drinking it for the first time. So my dear readers, even that little glass of wine has a catastrophic effect on the system. And when drunk with a meal, it makes everything ferment in the digestive tract. No if you cannot resist that glass of wine, only have a little and on an empty stomach only, not with a meal."

[rawnora]

Many things can be classified as poison even if they don't cause us to instantly drop dead. Even small amounts of alcohol are very damaging to the body. It doesn't matter whether it's "raw" or "organic". What is the point of making sure that the grapes or hops (not even a human food to begin with) weren't sprayed with pesticides if you're going to turn them into a poison by allowing them to ferment?

This is the danger of choosing foods based on their nutrient profile. Anything can be made to seem nutritious. How about some tree bark? It's also chock full of nutrients. And why put compost in your soil and wait for the plants to synthesize it? Why not eat it right out of the compost bin! What a time and energy saver.

eatyourbroccoli, thanks very much for posting that blurb. (It was written by Frederic Patenaude, btw.)

I also drank in college and I'm sure that my mind would be a whole lot sharper at age 50 if I hadn't wantonly slaughtered millions of my brain cells as I endeavored to escape from reality back then. Everyone who is young enough to avoid this particular mistake is crazy not to do so, imo.

Warm wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[exurb]

Broc, I am insulted by your insult.

I also pointed out that more than one drink is detrimental and negative from a statistical point of view.

Where did Patenaude get his PhD, and where were his post Doc studies? (that is where my info on the nutrition of beer comes from). What is that info based on that it is better to drink wine on an empty stomach? BTW, it's not fermented sugar, it's fermented barley, with hops for flavor.

I'm not advocating drinking, and I was clear that heavy drinking is worse for you. However it is well documented that people who have one drink a day are shown to be healthier than teetotallers.

Maybe it's because their condescension and other anti-social factors increase, and maybe it's associated with an ascetic personality, who knows what the etiology is, but it is a fact that one-drink-a-dayers are healthier. Go figure. Maybe it's a healthier attitude associated with it, and attitude and happiness has a lot to do with health. I'm just presenting the facts. There's a lot more BS info flying around than what I've presented.

You want toxicity, look at the studies on the hepatotoxicity of blue green algae aka Klamath Lake stuff (as in E-3 Live) everyone on here is swilling down.

A votre sante!!!!

[eatyourbroccoli]

exurb, i wasnt insulting you and i apologize for you taking it that way. youve been on this board awhile and hopefully youre able to see that im one who almost always attempts to avoid controversy, and intends only to help people - not to offend them.

i dont, however, feel its necessary to justify my "alcohol is a poison" stance, and ill therefore be ignoring this thread from now on.

[exurb]

exurb, i wasnt insulting you and i apologize for you taking it that way. youve been on this board awhile and hopefully youre able to see that im one who almost always attempts to avoid controversy, and intends only to help people - not to offend them.

Thanks broc. I would also think that you would have seen me helping many people, and not intending to be "very dangerous" as judged by you, in fact in many cases I have gone out of my way to help people avoid danger.

The thing I was trying to point out, is that the stats show that people who have one drink a day are healthier. Sure the alcohol is a toxin. Lots of things, foods, etc., have toxins coupled with componenets that are good for you, and our livers have their work cut out for themselves. Even if you're a "breatharian" your lifestyle is not without toxins. Flax has hydrogen cyanide in it . (BTW no more than 50 g a day recommended by quality research :) ). The reports I have read on the Upper Klamath Lake algae are horrifying.

I think rawbies have to be careful to not be hypocrits, holier than thou, ascetic, judgemental, narrow, etc. I believe that these pack negative health consequences. My vision of raw is decadent, fantastic, non-limiting, expanding, delicious, sensual, enjoyable, divine, wondrous, and social, and if that half a glass of awesome red wine every now and again practically gives me an "O" I'm sure I'm better for it. I'm more worried about sucking back the E-3 Live, eating cups and cups of flax all the time, or other toxic habits.

Vann could contemplate having a single drink here and there as maybe a healthier attitude to life in general, or he/she could teetotal. The statistics and studies keep showing that teetotallers are less healthy than a-drink-a-dayers. Binge drinkers are less healthy than both groups.

[sport]

I must say that I am concerned about this idea that people who drink one drink a day are healthier and I can not believe it.
Do other people believe it or will I put it in to the same box as the "Milk is good for your bones".
I know that there are probably lots or reports supporting it but are there any we can thrust. I can not contemplate the idea of taking a drink a day and I know (am convinced) that it would do me harm.
This is coming from someone who did not give up partying until in to her fifties but always knew that the alcohol was damaging me.

[Atari117]

I don't think it is as general as "alcohol is good for the body". More like studies have been done with red wine and the heart. Or at least that is what I've read. My dad had open heart surgery and they recommended (or rather, gave permission) to red wine.
But then again, I'm sure someone is going to disagree with that study.

To be honest, I think this is an opinion thing and debating the issue just offends and insults other people's opinions.

[luckitri]

Just for the record - alchohol WAS regulated - during Prohibition - and many people made their fortunes running it - as are others today with illicit drugs. Alchohol has been with us for centuries - since recorded time.....some say that in the Bible they drank wine because it was safer than water - a sort of water purification system - and that the wine of that time was very weak. Everything in moderation!

[RawNut]

The Buzz about Grape Juice

OK, it's not wine. But it has many of its health benefits.
By Peter Jaret
WebMD Feature

April 3, 2000 (Petaluma, Calif.) -- Even the most heartening news about the health benefits of wine wasn't enough to convince Susan Sanford to imbibe. "I've just never liked the taste of alcohol," says Sanford, 42, a film sound engineer in Northern California. "Still, with all the headlines, you can't help wondering whether you're missing out on something that might lower your risk of heart disease."

Well, Susan Sanford, worry no more. If you don't like wine, the latest studies show you can get almost all the same benefits from grape juice. The reason: Purple grape juice contains the same powerful disease-fighting antioxidants, called flavonoids, that are believed to give wine many of its heart-friendly benefits.

What'll It Be: Wine or Welch's?

The flavonoids in grape juice, like those in wine, have been shown to prevent the oxidation of so-called bad cholesterol (LDLs, or low-density lipoproteins) that leads to formation of plaque in artery walls. In a study published in 1999 in the journal Circulation, researchers at the University of Wisconsin Medical School in Madison asked 15 patients who already showed clinical signs of cardiovascular disease -- including plaque-constricted arteries -- to drink a tall glass of grape juice daily. After 14 days, blood tests revealed that LDL oxidation in these patients was significantly reduced. And ultrasound images showed changes in the artery walls, indicating that their blood was flowing more freely.

Grape juice can also lower the risk of developing the blood clots that lead to heart attacks, according to unpublished findings from Georgetown University researcher Jane Freedman, MD. So can red wine, but in this case grape juice is the more practical way to go: "Wine only prevents blood from clotting [when it's consumed] at levels high enough to declare someone legally drunk," says University of Wisconsin researcher John Folts, Ph.D. "With grape juice, you can drink enough to get the benefit without worrying about becoming intoxicated."

What's more, alcoholic drinks don't seem to improve the function of cells in blood vessel linings the way grape juice does. And alcohol generates free radicals -- unstable oxygen molecules that can actually cause damage to blood vessel tissues -- dampening any of the benefits that red wine's antioxidants may offer.

Longer-Lasting Protection

Even better news, for Sanford and other teetotalers, is that the antioxidants in grape juice appear to linger in the body longer than do those in wine. At the University of California, Davis, researchers took a 1996 cabernet sauvignon, removed all the alcohol, and asked a group of nine volunteers to alternate between drinking the nonalcoholic wine one day and an alcoholic version the next. In their findings, reported in the January 2000 issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, a key antioxidant called catechin remained in the blood for more than 4 hours after the volunteers drank the nonalcoholic wine, compared to only 3.2 hours for the full-strength cabernet. Apparently, alcohol hastens the breakdown of the antioxidant in the blood, speeding its elimination from the body.

But wine may provide at least one benefit grape juice doesn't: Alcohol has been shown to increase levels of HDL, the so-called good cholesterol, in the blood.

Even so, if you're a non-drinker, grape juice is a terrific way to get many of wine's potential health benefits, Folts says. If you do go for the juice, choose the purple kind, which is far richer in antioxidant flavonoids than red or white. Surprisingly, eating red table grapes won't provide as much protection. That's because the juice is made by crushing not just the skin and flesh but the seeds, too, which are especially rich in flavonoids. White grapes and grape juice won't do either, because they don't contain the flavonoids that purple or red grapes do.

Sanford can now rest assured. With a glass of purple grape juice with breakfast or for an afternoon snack, her heart can realize the same benefits as those of her wine-drinking friends. And if you don't want wine at dinner, uncork one of the fine nonalcoholic reds on the market. They're loaded with antioxidants as well as great flavor -- and you can drink all you like without worrying about driving home.

Peter Jaret is a freelance writer in Petaluma, Calif., who has written for Health, Hippocrates, and many other national publications.

http://www.webmd.com/content/Article...?printing=true

[Forever Young]

[QUOTE=Atari117
To be honest, I think this is an opinion thing and debating the issue just offends and insults other people's opinions.[/QUOTE]
You are correct about that. Only drink wine. Forever young

[Sharon in Colorado]

I think Vann was really posting and asking about partying with her friends. When I was her age, I didn't just have 1 drink, I had several until I couldn't think straight, so I think it's more of a social drinking/getting blitzed question rather than asking if 1 glass of wine or bottle of beer at dinner is healthy.

Back in the 60's when I was being breastfed, the doc told my mommy to drink a glass of beer a day for the vitamins.

I dont' know how that shaped me to this day, it could be my strengths or it could be my weaknesses.

But I've never really enjoyed drinking, unless I was drinking to get a buzz with my buddies. I did get into wine a little bit, but the last time I had a glass of Manishewitz, it made my whole face numb, so I think I'll be drinking grape juice this Passover.

By the way, what ever happened to Vann, the OP? Did she just start this thread and run off or what?

[RawNut]

Thanks for bringing us back Sharon,

I'm an "all or nothing" type of person. I could never just have a couple and I do regret drinking like that. Perhaps Vann, you could join some clubs such as a religious one for whatever your religion or anything so long as you aren't sitting at home on Friday and Saturday nights. How about joining SADD?

Craig

[Vann167]

Hey thank you so much for all the replies. I loved hearing all the different perspectives and opinions. Sorry it took me so long to reply, I didn't realize the thread would be so active.

It really helped to hear that some people could relate to where I was coming from, thanks for not flat out being insulted that I would even pose the question.

I think I'll definitely stick with raw foods and try to majorly cut back on alcohol on the weekends, again I don't drink that much or every weekend, so I'm just going to see how my body feels. Once I start being able to listen to what my body wants more, maybe I'll realize how horrible alcohol is making me feel.

Anyways, thanks so much for all the advice and debate.

Katie