I am not going to eat cacao for a while

[Lay-Lay]

hope you fill better soon!

[rawnora]

now I want to know why you think cacao is not good (you directly/indirectly said that).

One way that I know that cacao is bad is how my body reacts to it. Since I've been eating a very clean diet for many years now, I can trust my body's reactions. However, there is more objective information to be had for those who wish to find it. For example, I just did a cursory search and found the comments below by Frederic Patenaude. Cacao is #3 on his list of "the unhealthiest foods that people think are healthy". The info that you'll find on line is mostly focussed on the positive aspects of chocolate because so many people are selling it, but the truth can be found if you look hard enough. I think Doug Graham has written about the poisonous effects of cacao, and I'd be surprised if it hasn't been written about truthfully in Living Nutrition magazine, as well.
Regards,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

"Coffee, Black Chocolate and Cacao — First premise: coffee, chocolate and cacao (raw or cooked) are stimulants. They contain certain substances (caffeine and theobromine) that disturb the nervous system. If a person is eating a more natural diet, these poisons have an even more disturbing effect on the system. For a raw- foodist, one cup of coffee has the effect of maybe four cups for someone eating a standard American diet. Personally, half a cup of coffee taken in the morning will disturb my sleep at night, while my dad can drink a cup in the evening and still fall asleep. However, as Shelton wrote: “toleration to poisons is merely a slow method of dying. Instead of seeing in the phenomena of toleration something to be sought after, it is something to seek to avoid the necessity for.” A detoxified person is much like a child: she will strongly react to the smallest dose of any intoxicant.

So there is no room for compromise with caffeinated drinks and cacao products, which include: coffee, hot chocolate, black chocolate, raw cacao beans, black tea, green tea, maté tea, etc."

[Sunshine9]

I simply disagree -- just because one is clean and reacts poorly to a certain food does not by default make that food "toxic." Some of the cleanest and healthiest people I know feel extremely well including cacao in their diets.

And I know everyone respects different gurus in the raw community, but I do not think Patenaude or Graham are any more qualified to deem cacao unhealthy, as Wolfe is to claim that it's good for you. Therefore that leaves only personal experience to decide what foods are the best for us as individuals.

Whatever it is, let's all eat with love and gratitude...

[rawnora]

Sunshine9,
If I state "the tree is green", you can disagree if you'd like but that doesn't make the tree other than green. There is nothing subjective about the toxic nature of cacao. It may seem so because its effects vary from person to person, but that's because how a person reacts is dependent on how clean and healthy s/he is. That stimulants are extremely harmful to the body is a self-evident fact, which anyone can demonstrate to him/herself by the method I mentioned above.

Graham and Patenaude may not be any more 'qualified' than Wolfe to dispense advice, but they're not selling cacao either. They have nothing to gain by telling the truth about the harmful effects of stimulants like cacao.

Additionally, fyi, the negative reaction of a healthy body to a poison is not a "poor" reaction, it is the appropriate response of a vital body.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

[Sharon in Colorado]

I think Graham is as qualified on the raw food diet as anyone could be based on his own health, education, background and experience. But then there is Storm Talifero who's been raw the about same time, in tip-top health as well and advocates things that Graham would never advocate. I know Storm uses carob, but does not advocate using cacao products or supplements.

I would not even put Fred P or David W in the same category as those two.

[honeybee joy]

Originally Posted By Walkin'onWater
I don't do caffeine anymore...my body does the same thing with even tiny amounts.

Does it have caffeine in it? Dr. Ross from the Tree of Life told me the caffeine was only in the peel, and that the nibs and powder were caffeine free, because the peels were removed.

[faith4u]

I agree with Nora completely.

I cannot eat cacao without a reaction. Even the powder that I bought directly from David Wolfe since it is supposedly the only truly raw source makes me feel terrible. I start out feeling giddy and great and then within a couple of hours I am jittery, shaky and feeling like I am going to pass out.

I have noticed it affecting me in other areas too.

[Lay-Lay]

The only effect I have found it has on me is the shrinking it does to my wallet ;)

[Goldsplinter]

no wonder i've been getting high.

it's a fuckin stimulant.

Yeah i'll think i'll stop eating cacao.

[Goldsplinter]

Cacao is #3 on his list of "the unhealthiest foods that people think are healthy".

Link? Or just copy paste the list.

[Goldsplinter]

And I want to know if carob is considered a stimulant also.

[Goldsplinter]

Also, why is cacao a poision to our bodies, if it affects our nerveous system, makes us high/giddy w/e, what's bad about that?

[LightLover]

Sunshine9,
If I state "the tree is green", you can disagree if you'd like but that doesn't make the tree other than green. There is nothing subjective about the toxic nature of cacao. It may seem so because its effects vary from person to person, but that's because how a person reacts is dependent on how clean and healthy s/he is. That stimulants are extremely harmful to the body is a self-evident fact, which anyone can demonstrate to him/herself by the method I mentioned above.

Graham and Patenaude may not be any more 'qualified' than Wolfe to dispense advice, but they're not selling cacao either. They have nothing to gain by telling the truth about the harmful effects of stimulants like cacao.

Additionally, fyi, the negative reaction of a healthy body to a poison is not a "poor" reaction, it is the appropriate response of a vital body.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

* Nora, is it so that all the positive statements in the "SAD-world" about certain foods (cacao etc...) are less valid to the ones in the raw wordls, because these statements have been made comparing with Sad people which didn't take this certain sad-food? And the conclusion would be completely diffeent if compared with rawfooders?

LL

[Sunshine9]

Yikes well if anyone feels that an item is a poison to their system, I hope they do not eat that item. Feeling that something is harmful will do more damage than any amount of "bad" food.

[rawnora]

Goldsplinter,
Here's the link I referenced: http://www.erreur404.info/nutrition/...you-44460.html

Carob is not a stimulant. While not being an entirely optimal food, it is a much better choice than cacao.

What's wrong with stimulants is that they occasion extraordinary chemical, mechanical and hormonal responses in the body that overexpend the body's normal resources. And just like when you overspend your bank account and you've got to deposit more to keep a positive balance, your body must recoup the losses that are incurred when you overspend your energy. It does this through rest and sleep. People who regularly indulge in stimulants constantly fight the attempts their bodies make to regenerate energy (which is signalled by feelings of tiredness or weakness) by re-stimulating themselves. For example, I know people who drink coffee late into the evening and claim that they sleep great in spite of this. However, before they can even function the next morning, they have to drink coffee. That stereotypical need for a morning cup of coffee in our culture is indicative of the body desperately demanding rest so it can cleanse, heal and rebalance its internal chemistry. You can get a horse to run faster by whipping it but it can only go so long before it collapses. In the case of the body, the collapse comes when a person gets a bad cold or flu, or some other acute illness. Some people even refuse to let their bodies rest when acute symptoms are present (they take remedies), which is particularly dangerous because it never allows the body to unburden itself, and this in turn leads to chronic or degenerative disease.

Lightlover,
I'm not sure I understand your question. Do you mean -- is a harmful food more harmful to SAD eaters or to raw fooders? If you can clarify I'll try to answer. Thanks!

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com