Clearing up some confusion in here

[wisslewj]

Dear Peops,

There seems to be some confusion as to what my "intent" is in here. So, rather then leave it to speculation, lemme just be real clear so there is no confusion.

First, I am not advocating any one diet type over another. There are pros and cons to ALL types and diet types that work better for certain people wont for others. Hence my sole purpose is to educate and with some factual things and science and let people plow their own road to health, whatever diet that may be. I cant advocate any ONE diet to anyone without knowing things like physiology, geographic anscestory and a whole mess of other things that are determinate on what someone would thrive on.

One can make MANY cases today for why one diet works and not another. Tell someone in the arctic to eat vegan and he will laugh as there is no vegetation really. tell someone in the tropic region to give up fruits and veggis and he too will think you are nuts (raw nuts :P ). Eat some tainted meat and you may get sick. Eat veggies from deficient soil and they are almost pointless. Different diets for different situations.

I have studied biology/chemestry/nutrition and natural healing now for a great many years and have come to a good understanding of bodily sytems and how food works with them. (Obviously I am not perfect) My main goal is to provide factual information for those that are looking for optimal health. With such advice they can choose what works best for them, whatever that may be. I would think that giving people scienticfic knowledge that may help them heal from something or avoid deficiencies in other things would be welcome rather then letting someone suffer silently. I have no dsesire to "convert" anyone to any diet. I dont care how anyone eats, only that they not be suffering needlesly. I have even refrained from offering any advice in here that goes contrary to the mission statement. If I have alternative methods I think would help a peson, I even state up front they are not vegan and as such one must contact me. A person can make the choice not to. I dont bully anyone in anyway. I really dont see how offering help to people, even when it is contrary to a vegan way (and not in this forum) can be bad.

Anyone that looks at my posts will notice I advocate vegetarian things like veggies, fruits, coconut oils and the like aplenty. that alone should make it obvious I am not advocating any specific diet but places to fullfill nutrition needs. (again if they are non vegan I always say email)

Most people want optimal health. When one cannot even post a link to a website that has helpful info (like the site i posted for enzymes even though meat was mentioed in like 2 sentences only and was not the focus!) then that becomes a scary thing. We should value truth and seek it, not dogma for the sake of dogma. We should offer help in love and not shun aid for the sake of dogma.

I hope that clears up my motives and intentions. I seek to be helpful and loving towards my fellow human, if that is wrong I apologize.

God Bless ya all
Jeff
wisslewj@yahoo.com

PS:cherie i got your email late last night about religion. I had an email all written and my puter crashed before i could send it! Anyway, when I get a lil time, I will replay ok. Love ya. :)

[Gosia]

"I really dont see how offering help to people, even when it is contrary to a vegan way (and not in this forum) can be bad."

Common Jeff, isn't it obvious to you? To make it easier to understand, would you go to Alissa'a retreat and do there what you do here? The fact that you are on an on-line forum does not make things any different. The only difference is your perception as it seems.

Gosia

[RawFoodieMom]

I seek to be helpful and loving towards my fellow human, if that is wrong I apologize.

I don't think that's really fair. No one has said anything against you in the simple respect of being helpful and loving towards your fellow human. We are a very caring group of people here.

But I don't think that just because you put a "email me" behind certain subjects you speak about that is against Alissa Cohen's MISSION STATEMENT for this board, that it makes it okay to mention those things. Here's a tiny excerpt of her mission statement:

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"This is a raw food board for asking and receiving questions and answers in regards to going and staying raw. This board is for the support of the raw food lifestyle, getting and giving advice and connecting with other people who are STRIVING TO GO AND BE RAW VEGAN."
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If you wish to discuss the pros and cons of different diets, like you've said, and what works for different people of different origins or places of living, I don't believe this is the place for that... As Alissa states, this is for discussion of the raw food lifestyle only, a place where people that are striving to go raw can find and share support with one another.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Hey Jeff,

I've got to thinking a lot about this lately since this has come up - I've noticed so far that nobody has really focused on your eating animal products. No one has tried to persuade you away from eating how you are and going vegan.

Since you are here at this raw vegan (+ honey) forum, maybe you too are searching as many others are. You must be here for another reason, not just to share your way of eating with us.

Why don't you set up a journal and go for the 30 day challenge?

[RawFoodieMom]

Why don't you set up a journal and go for the 30 day challenge?

Ahhh, Sharon you RAWK. Excellent idea.

I second the challenge!!! Now Jeff, can you resist it? :) What a better way to really find out if RAW VEGAN is the best way of eating of all the different diets you've researched...

[Rawkinlocs]

Jeff has done raw vegan - he stated that here: http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/sho...952#post206952

He isn't all that new here...he joined a while back and was pretty on board, but then ran into some challenges and upon research, found that adding certain raw animal products into his diet would alleviate his challenges and now he's pretty excited that it worked for him and his wife.

My thing is, while that may be true...there are also people who found ways to alleviate those same challenges while still remaining raw vegan/vegetarian and that is what this forum is for...support in combating those challenges on a raw vegan/vegetarian diet. Anything outside of that can be researched outside of RFT...that's all we've been trying to say, not that it's "right" or "wrong" to go outside of raw veganism/vegetarianism...but that this particular forum has a particular focus and theme.

Again, I don't think anyone would dare go to a general vegan board and start such discussions as we've seen here the past few days...so why do it here?

[wisslewj]

Hey guys

I hate to see so much arguing in here. It also seems that people are taking some things way out of context. (and even adding things I didnt even say lol)

If anyone cares to go back to any of my posts, they will clearly see that I dont advocate ANY diet in any of them. On the contrary, all my posts have simply been information on food or science, with coresponding links almost always, to show the science. NONE of the links were ever given in an attempt to support ANY diet type. The link to the Price site was to show, as the context said, the value of VITAMIN A and D. as nutritional neeeds. (not to promote dairy use) There are some good studies there worth reading. (Heck, I am a RAW food guy, so even I dont agree with the Price site entirely. That doesnt negate the good info on Vitamins though!)

Likewise the link on enzymes was to show ENZYME use, not the 1 sentence blurb about meat that was made toward the end. Again, I stated this in the post. If people look at the context of the links they would see that they are never "anti-vegan" in nature. (someone even got mad because one of the links about pleomorphism had a URL that was a meat eating site even though the info said NOTHING about meat.) Please people, I know some get emotional about diet types, and while that makes no sense to me, before ya get worked up please view the context of the post first.

Other then my very FIRST post, in which i mentioned dairy for teeth, I have never mentioned that stuff again as Rawkinlocs asked me not to and I wanted to respect that. (i even apolagized) Every other post has been simply food science. I offer my email to help those that are having troubles with diet in general. In fact, when I offer help, if the person wants to stay vegan, I offer help in that area, if they want to try other options, I show them those options as well.

I have made every attempt at staying neutral with my posts and just offering data. When someone is suffering though from things I have seen before and look like legitimate deficiciencies and not just detox symptoms, it would be wrong to just say, get over and offer no assistance if I am able to. Hence, I suggest emailing. I dont see my actions as being "disrespectful" in alissas house. Neutral data and an offer to contact me is just being helpful with knowledge I was blessed to learn myself.

I fear the day when we cannot post some data about Vitamin A and say email if ya want to know more about it.

I hope we can put the arguing aside and just get along in love and peace. The path to wisdom is only obtained as we seek understanding. Understanding only comes as we learn knowledge. And knowledge is best shared.

God Bless ya guys and have a great night
Jeff

[luckitri]

Perhaps I am wrong but it seems to me that we are borrowing knowledge from multiple disciplines because there are so many variables in raw and enough data has not been accumulated to put order to the raw world. So a newbie cannot come here and see - oh, if I eat this way I may cure my depression in 6 months - not that it would ever be a hard and fast fact but at least a guideline. If that were not achieved then a discussion of individual variables would be in order. So I just see Jeff as using a wider range of resources and I enjoyed his links and learned by them.

[Indi]

I hope we can put the arguing aside and just get along in love and peace.

Wisslewj. I started the original post to which you refer.
I have made my position clear and so have you.

Wisslewj, i am happy to just get along in love and peace.
Blessings Indi

[RawNut]

Jeff,

I don't doubt your sincerity in wanting to help people one bit. I did my research on the paleo diet and read the beyondveg site before I decided to join this forum and order Alissa's book first. Having said that, I would'n go to a paleo forum and make allussions to cutting out meat and dairy, nor would I ask the members to contact me so that I could tell them off list, with everyone knowing what I'm going to tell those members privately.

Have you gotten a hold of The China Study yet? That really might help you change your mind about meat and dairy. Also, I've ordered a DVD called Eating 2nd Edition, which I'm awaiting. I'm going to ask for a review by any who've seen it.

God Bless,

Craig

[RawFoodieMom]

I would'n go to a paleo forum and make allussions to cutting out meat and dairy, nor would I ask the members to contact me so that I could tell them off list, with everyone knowing what I'm going to tell those members privately.

Yes, I think that's the key thing here...

[Sharon in Colorado]

I fear the day when we cannot post some data about Vitamin A and say email if ya want to know more about it.

Oh, knock it off will ya!

Now, lets all kiss and make up and you can do your 30 day challenge now, okay?

[wisslewj]

Folks,

I still think there is some confusion here. People assume I say email me and then I tell em all go drink milk or eat meat lol. That isnt even close. In fact, all I really do is teach some basic food science based on what people are suffering from and include the sources they can get those deficiencies resolved in. Its their choice what they pick. In fact, I include all options available as some people cannot do one thing or the other. Ya cant tell someone in a Northern climate to get his Vitamin D from the sun as UV-B is almost non existant there, but the person STILL needs Vitamin D. So, I give options, including some supplemental options if they so desire. Contrary to popular opinion, I am not here to lure anyone to any diet, just to help them be sure its complete if they so desire that help.

Anyway, lets all just kiss and make up! Mwaaaah lol
God Bess ya guys
Jeff

PS: RAWNUT, I am getting that book from the library if they have it.....once I pay off my huge library fine lol...I am so bad about getting ooks back on time as I take out about 20 at a time, the fines a wee bit hefty! :P

[Revvell]

You still don't get it do you? NO one is saying you are luring anyone to any "particular" diet. What we ARE saying is you are dis-respecting Alissa and the mission of this site which is to support people in the raw food lifestyle. That's it!!!

So, knock off the "there is some confusion" here as though we are a bunch of dummies. (or is that dumbies? lol).

If you can't conform to what this site is about, then begone with ya. (
And btw we are not peops).

Revvell

[Pailani]

Perhaps I am wrong but it seems to me that we are borrowing knowledge from multiple disciplines because there are so many variables in raw and enough data has not been accumulated to put order to the raw world. So a newbie cannot come here and see - oh, if I eat this way I may cure my depression in 6 months - not that it would ever be a hard and fast fact but at least a guideline. If that were not achieved then a discussion of individual variables would be in order. So I just see Jeff as using a wider range of resources and I enjoyed his links and learned by them.

But this isn't a general raw food forum where people are gathered together to sort out all the information and misinformation that abounds within raw foodism. It's Alissa's board, created for the purpose of implementing the kind of raw diet she advocates in her book. The purpose is to provide a place for people new to raw to come and just try it - without hearing "don't eat too much fruit" or or "you should only eat fruit" or "fat is bad" or "all raw fat is good" or "supplements are unnecessary and worthless" or "you'll get deficient unless you supplement." All of that conflicting information isn't helpful to someone just starting, it's just confusing and more likely to make them want to run the other way.

There are plenty of places where people from all aspects of the raw lifestyle can go to discuss all the different ways to eat raw. There's nothing wrong with respecting the rules and intent of this board - that's what makes it feel safer here.