I think it's time for some input

[yeahbethany]

So, then, maybe trying for 8/1/1 is risky and should be attempted only with extreme caution and if you have the means to get personal counseling from a professional?

Rawnora says that you shouldn't ever think you're going to stay in the same place you're at right now, that transition is only a temporary thing, and eventually you get to more optimal eating, which seems to me to be something like 8/1/1. But then, people who actually attempt 8/1/1 crash and give up the raw diet altogether, so maybe being stuck in transition indefinitely eating salt, spices and fats isn't a bad idea??

That's an interesting question, isn't it, Pailani? One without easy answers, for sure.

I wouldn't like to think that one must have the means for personal counseling in order to succeed. But there are things to think about. I think a lot of us hear about 8/1/1 raw vegan, and hear the very convincing arguments for why it is the healthiest way to live, and say "I'll start now!" Whereas, in reality, maybe it should take a year, or two, or five to get there, depending on where we are when we start? I know that for myself, I did not really know how to get from point a to point b, so I jumped, held on by my fingers for a while, and then slid down, down, down. So when I was ready to try again, I had to learn to build a bridge, and that's where the personal counseling came in. After a while, I ran out of bridge ideas, and I'm afraid of heights, so I needed someone to help and cheer me on.

But, the important thing is...I got back up and tried again. Yes, I went back to cooked for a while. But I came back more emotionally ready than I was before. So, am I sorry I went back to cooked? No. I did what I needed to do at the time. Would it have been healthier for me to stay "gourmet raw" and never try to eat simpler? Perhaps not, especially if I learn habits that will stick more firmly. =). But I'd imagine that some people, when they go back to cooked, never want to come back to raw (even with salt, spices, and fats). Maybe they are eating worse than if they went back to gourmet raw. Do we know what is going to happen to us if we try? No. So it is risky. Should we sometimes take risks for things that are worth it? That is for the individual to decide. =) For me, I think it was, but then again, I'm certainly still on the journey here. I can't say it is worth it for the person who ends up eating worse than they were when they started. That is for them to determine. =)

By the way, maybe Gosia would care to chime in? =) She has such a beautiful approach to this - and firmly believes that these shifts should happen naturally, when one is ready for them, and not as a result of following any set of rules. I really admire that. Her website is www.rawgosia.com.

Oh, and incidentally - some thoughts about "having the means for personal counseling" - I thought this was "beyond my means" for a long time. Again, the only reason I "resorted" to it was that I was really stuck, and needed some help "building a bridge." But, for me at least, I had been mostly eating juicy fruits, and that got REALLY EXPENSIVE to buy enough to fill me up/provide enough calories. Turns out, it didn't really provide enough calories, which is why I was having so much trouble and struggling so much. I ate bananas a couple times a week before, but they were, by no means, a staple of my diet. But the tools Dr. Graham has given me really helped me learn to like bananas, and to rely on them as a staple. In the past two weeks, I've saved SO MUCH MONEY over the way I was eating before. Also, I'm a lot more satisfied with what I have. In the past, if I was craving, say, peaches, I felt a compulsion to buy them, even if I had some perfectly good fruit in the house that I could have eaten instead. So, not only did I buy the peaches (which were probably expensive), but I wasted the fruit in the house that would end up going bad. Now, I don't feel a compulsion to run to the store and buy things. I feel much more satisfied with what I have. Again, I am saving SO MUCH MONEY. I imagine that, from the amount of money I am saving, this consult will certainly pay for itself in 3 weeks time (or even sooner!), and SAVE me money in the long run. I NEVER would have imagined this. Just food for thought about "having the means."

Still, no easy answers...

[fiddler]

But the tools Dr. Graham has given me really helped me learn to like bananas, and to rely on them as a staple.

Bethany, would you be willing to share some of the tools that Graham provided? I've got a couple of his books and DVD's and am always willing to hear more from Doug.

I like the idea of bananas as a staple. Lots of calories and nutrients and they taste great!

Thanks for posting -- very helpful.

Cheers,
Fiddler

[Rawkinlocs]

I just wanted to say that I really admire those of you who have "arrived" at the point of being satisfied with eating more simply.

I wish to get there someday because I think that would just be the ultimate freedom in eating...to be able to eat simple, whole foods and enjoy the natural flavors of food without "needing" to add salt, spices, oils, etc., no preparation, no fuss...and to actually feel satiated eating those things. Right now, yes I LOVE some foods in their natural state, but not all, especially veggies. But even after a while, I start longing for something "more"...heavier, saltier, more savory and sometimes raw meals "hit the spot" and other times they don't and then that's when I start wandering off into unchartered waters if you know what I mean.

But I also appreciate that these things come in time and "going back" doesn't always mean STAYING there. Gil, Bethany and others such as Gosia, Nora and Audrey et al...your stories truly inspire me when I read about you growing into the place you are now. Thanks for sharing!

[yeahbethany]

Bethany, would you be willing to share some of the tools that Graham provided? I've got a couple of his books and DVD's and am always willing to hear more from Doug.

I like the idea of bananas as a staple. Lots of calories and nutrients and they taste great!

Thanks for posting -- very helpful.

Cheers,
Fiddler

Sure, Gil. I can share this. This advice was tailored to my situation, so it may not work for everyone in all situations, so it may not really be "tools", per se. As in, please don't try this if it doesn't seem to apply to you! =) This is not meant to be a prescription in any way. =) By the way, Gil, I love your website!

Well...here goes...

After going over a complete health history for me, the first thing Doug told me was to buy a case of bananas, and another one 4 days later. I was to eat nothing but bananas for a week, as many/as often as I wanted (whole, or blended with water, if I wanted). I was to e-mail him every day with how many bananas I ate, how many times I urinated (this shows how hydrated you are), how I felt physically, how I felt emotionally, etc. He would "hold my hand" daily for the at least the first four weeks, and each week, make suggestions that would slightly widen my food choices.

My biggest fear was that I would get sick of eating bananas and never want to see another banana in my life. =) After all, I only ate bananas maybe 2 or three times a week, at the time (in the summer).

I found the week very beneficial though - it helped me learn to like bananas (the opposite of what I expected), and it helped me learn to like eating simply. Also, I saved a TON of money that week. =)

The second week, he told me to make a couple minor changes: if I want to have a different fruit, have it for my breakfast meal. And, if at any point during the day, I wanted to have some celery, I should feel free to do so. It was during this week that I noticed I was happy to eat what I had on hand. I used to feel compelled to buy whatever I was craving, even if I had plenty of other food around. Now, I don't feel like I have to go out and "buy whatever it is I'm craving, NOW!" I feel like it can certainly wait until I've finished all of these yummy grapes that I have. =) It's VERY freeing.

Anyway, I'm toward the end of the second week now, so I can't tell you what is in store next week, yet =).

By the way, I should mention that this daily follow-up was all included in the price of the consult, so all in all, I'm totally satisfied with everything so far.

Hope this helps. Have a great afternoon!

[yeahbethany]

I just wanted to say that I really admire those of you who have "arrived" at the point of being satisfied with eating more simply.

But I also appreciate that these things come in time and "going back" doesn't always mean STAYING there. Gil, Bethany and others such as Gosia, Nora and Audrey et al...your stories truly inspire me when I read about you growing into the place you are now. Thanks for sharing!

Hi Rawkinlocs,
I'm really glad our posts are helpful to you. Thank you so much for the admiration... :) But, I do feel like I'm still on the journey.

I admire everyone here for their pursuit of their goals, wherever they may be along the way.

-Bethany

[fiddler]

Bethany,

Thanks so much for sharing Doug's approach with us. I too have gone days with eating just bananas and amazingly enough had not grown tired of them :) I bought a case of organic bananas today and they're downstairs in my basement ripening while I consume the rest of my ripe ones. I keep them in a cool place inside the case until they ripen. I like to always have bananas available -- they're definitely my main staple.

Its so great to hear the content from an actual consultation with Doug; he's one of my heroes. Some day I'd like to meet him at one of his health retreats.

BTW, yesterday I ate a whole large seedless watermelon. And a couple banana smoothies. Very convenient :)

Thanks again for sharing Bethany! You're an inspiration.

Wishing you well on your journey,
Fiddler

[Pailani]

I'm really glad our posts are helpful to you. Thank you so much for the admiration... :) But, I do feel like I'm still on the journey.

I like posts from people who have been at this for a while. Since I'm looking at this long term, I feel like it gives me a glimpse of what might be in my own future, and what kind of challenges I may have ahead.

[yeahbethany]

You're a lot wiser than I am, Pailani...I used to think that I would NEVER fall off the wagon! =) I mean, I was on for close to 2 years...

Fiddler, I'm glad you found the description of the consult helpful. =) And yes, eating this way is sooooooo convenient. No mess, clean-up is a snap! I'll need to start buying bananas by the case though - maybe I'll be able to get a better deal on them. I'm just not sure I'll go through a whole case in a week!

TwinYoga, how are you feeling today?

[twinyoga]

Much better, thanks. I'm enjoying reading all of this information.

I feel much more balanced today. I am not 100% raw, though. Just listening and learning. There's no rush.

[yeahbethany]

I'm glad you are feeling better today. Listening and learning is good. Indeed, no rush at all. =)

Have a good evening, everyone!

[chilove]

Hi Debbie,

I'm glad you are feeling better now! I just wanted to add that I agree with Bethany that you weren't eating enough and to not push yourself or blame yourself. Make changes as they feel emotionally comfortable to you and/or as your body prompts you to. Going and staying raw is such a great opportunity for us to learn about ourselves and our bodies. It truely is a journey!


Take care,

Audrey
www.rawhealing.com

[Sharon in Colorado]

Thanks for the info Bethany. I found it really helpful myself. I have always wanted to do a consult with Dr. Graham. I'm one of those who desires to do the 811 but have a challenge getting all my ducks in a row! :)

[yeahbethany]

I'm glad it was helpful info, Sharon! It's good to know that others are in the same boat as I am. =)

[twinyoga]

Here's an update on me. Believe it or not, I'm eating cooked foods and doing it intentionally. I'm observing everything good and bad about it.

I'm making brown rice, steamed tofu, even some macrobiotic cookies. I even had some challah.

This is how I feel: very thirsty, a little more bloated than usual, much calmer, sleeping well, and my "movements" and more solid, I get very uncomfortably full with just a cupful of food. So, as you can see I'm seeing good and bad. Do I miss raw, yes. I miss the "lightness" and I hate the thirst I always feel. But I love the more balanced feeling I have...not so tempermental.

Am I going back to raw? I hope to, really. And I love 8/1/1. It's hard to explain what I'm doing and I don't recommend it for everyone...it's like I just have to experiment and see what really is working for me.

I am eating only fruit or fresh juice for breakfast, also.


I would love any thoughts and comments.

[yeahbethany]

Debbie, I did the same as you were doing...and enjoyed it while it lasted. =) I'm glad you are feeling more balanced. If and when you are ready to go back to all raw, you will, and in the meantime, do what is right for you.

Hope you are enjoying the weekend,
Bethany