I think it's time for some input

[twinyoga]

Ok, I'm getting a weeeee bit discouraged and trying not to.

It's been a year since I went raw. I probably can count less than 30 days that I had cooked food. But many days where I've questioned what I do. When I'm well rested, confident and balanced...I'm all raw and no turning back. I love it. When I'm tired, unbalanced and insecure...I question this whole thing and wonder if I'm just nuts.

So, the last couple days I've been so insecure and unbalanced (not sure why, I'm working on that). I was doing 8/1/1 and loved it for a week, and was 100% before that, but I just crashed and though I'm not eating "junk" food, my body is definetly thinking that cooked food is "junk" food right now. I nibbled on some popcorn today (organic, air popped), I nibbled on some sprouted bread, some peanut butter, some beans and some rice cakes. I felt so ill afterwards. So, so, so ill. My heart was racing, my stomach ached and I just wanted to curl up in a ball.

Not that all of you aren't fabulous, I just feel so unstable. So, I'm sipping on my cleansing tea, haven't eaten since 5pm and going to bed. Just trying to ride this out. I really never saw this coming. I was going so strong. Hmmmm.

[Coriander74]

BIG HUGS Debbie... I understand where you're coming from... sometimes you just get kind of stuck.

You're not alone ok? You can e-mail me anytime, since I shut down my AIM thingie... my e-mail is coriander74@hotmail.com. This is a rough patch you're going through, all of us have them. You know you have it in you to fight back and reach out towards your goals again. Being sick is no fun, especially when we get sick at our own expense.

Hang in there ok?

[fiddler]

Twinyoga,

I'll try and share my story with you because I believe my situation may be very similar to yours as I went totally raw last year too. I also have had about a couple dozen days where I ate cooked and that has been in the last several months. The first 6 months were totally raw.

I have had periods of doubt too. For example, why am I doing this? Can't I just eat a few cooked meals? Etc...

But, the times I did eat cooked my stomach ached, my sinuses got clogged and felt bad and my cravings increased dramatically. Plus, I got so thirsty and had to drink tons of water. The weight started coming back on too. Plus, I had a gout attack after some cooked food episodes.

So, I continue on my RAW journey because for me there is just NO going back. It is too painful for me to eat cooked food now that I've been somewhat cleaned out with a RAW diet. So, on and on I go with my RAW journey. I'm striving now to eat more along 811rv because that seems to work best for me right now and also what appears to be the most reasonable approach, imho.

No doubt in my mind that eating a low-fat raw vegan diet is the most optimal diet. It is difficult to tackle emotional situations without the numbing cooked food --- but to me that is the only down side of RAW if you want to even call it that. We just have to learn to tackle our emotions, I guess without the numbing effect of cooked food.

Did you notice when you ate the cooked food over this past year that you could feel the "calming/numbing" sensation all over your body. To me, that really freaked me out the first time I ate cooked food after being raw for six months...

1. Are you getting enough calories?
When I'm lacking in calories, I get tired and have self-doubt. Banana smoothies (Just bananas blended with water) work wonders on knocking out my self-doubt and emotional charges.

2. Are you getting enough sleep?
If you'd rather roll-over than roll-out, then you should give yourself more sleep if at all possible.

3. Are you getting enough sunshine?

4. Are you exercising daily?

5. Other stresses?

Anyway, please excuse my above ramblings. Just trying to dump out my experiences in case they may be of some benefit to you. I'm still learning to try and live this lifestyle. Lots of challenges and rewards :)

Wishing you well on your continued success,
Fiddler

[Lay-Lay]

I know how you feel. This month is my 3 year raw anniversary since I began my journey. In between I had many 100% days, but lots of factors got in my way of going at it for life. Don't be so hard on yourself. It is a journey and no journey is without a few rocks in the road, right?

[Graciebeliever]

Ok, I'm getting a weeeee bit discouraged and trying not to.

It's been a year since I went raw. I probably can count less than 30 days that I had cooked food. But many days where I've questioned what I do. When I'm well rested, confident and balanced...I'm all raw and no turning back. I love it. When I'm tired, unbalanced and insecure...I question this whole thing and wonder if I'm just nuts.

So, the last couple days I've been so insecure and unbalanced (not sure why, I'm working on that). I was doing 8/1/1 and loved it for a week, and was 100% before that, but I just crashed and though I'm not eating "junk" food, my body is definetly thinking that cooked food is "junk" food right now. I nibbled on some popcorn today (organic, air popped), I nibbled on some sprouted bread, some peanut butter, some beans and some rice cakes. I felt so ill afterwards. So, so, so ill. My heart was racing, my stomach ached and I just wanted to curl up in a ball.

Not that all of you aren't fabulous, I just feel so unstable. So, I'm sipping on my cleansing tea, haven't eaten since 5pm and going to bed. Just trying to ride this out. I really never saw this coming. I was going so strong. Hmmmm.

Um first of all you are a MOM X 2! That explains a great deal.

One thing that I have seen in the short time I have been here is something that I saw lacking with some people. Although we all do the right thing by eating right, Lots of us do NOT take extra good care of ourselves in other ways.

You seem like a very active person that gives a lot to your family. Sometimes you need to stop and do something that is just for you.

There could be a lot of reasons why this happened but whatever the reason, your body is telling you, Be SO SO extra good to yourself. Get a babysitter, take a bubble bath, have a massage, have your man hug and hold you and keep the world away for a while, do whatever YOU need to regain your balance and joy.

I will be thinking about you and hoping that sleep will bring rest and rejuvination to you.

[yeahbethany]

Ok, I'm getting a weeeee bit discouraged and trying not to.

It's been a year since I went raw. I probably can count less than 30 days that I had cooked food. But many days where I've questioned what I do. When I'm well rested, confident and balanced...I'm all raw and no turning back. I love it. When I'm tired, unbalanced and insecure...I question this whole thing and wonder if I'm just nuts.

So, the last couple days I've been so insecure and unbalanced (not sure why, I'm working on that). I was doing 8/1/1 and loved it for a week, and was 100% before that, but I just crashed and though I'm not eating "junk" food, my body is definetly thinking that cooked food is "junk" food right now. I nibbled on some popcorn today (organic, air popped), I nibbled on some sprouted bread, some peanut butter, some beans and some rice cakes. I felt so ill afterwards. So, so, so ill. My heart was racing, my stomach ached and I just wanted to curl up in a ball.

Not that all of you aren't fabulous, I just feel so unstable. So, I'm sipping on my cleansing tea, haven't eaten since 5pm and going to bed. Just trying to ride this out. I really never saw this coming. I was going so strong. Hmmmm.

Hi Twinyoga,
I'd love to chime in here, and I hope this is helpful for you to read.

I was in the exact same place as you, about 9 months ago. No kidding. I had been all raw for over a year and a half, and really wanted to try 811rv, as I believed (and still do) that it was the healthiest way to eat. However, it was a really hard shift for me. Giving up salt, spices, etc was REALLY rough. By September, I was craving cooked food like crazy. The only thing that kept me from breaking down was the fact that I was going to run my first marathon on October 9, and I didn't want to make myself sick for it. Eventually, I did break down two weeks before the marathon. I was sick for a couple of days. My heart was racing, and I felt more thirsty than I had ever felt in my life that night. For the next few days afterwards, I just felt "blah." In fact, I just did a search for a post I did that week. You can read the thread here: http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6819 It sounds pretty much the same as yours. =)

After the marathon, I decided to eat some cooked food sometimes. The amount of cooked in my diet gradually increased. I decided that 811 was too restrictive. Eventually, by February 2006, I had started even eating junk food.

By March, I hated the way I felt on cooked food. I hated the way I looked on cooked food (put on 20 pounds!). I hated the way my voice sounded (not as clear and melodious). So, in the middle of March, I came back to raw. I still strongly felt (and still do!) that natural hygiene/811 is the healthiest way for us to be, and having experienced the flip side, I was much more psychologically prepared to take on the challenge this time. I was able to give up salt fairly easily. I got pretty close to 811, but still ate too much fat on some days. My energy level was lower than I would have liked to be, and I was a bit stuck on losing some excess weight (that I've carried with me my whole adult life). These lingering challenges convinced me that perhaps I need some help to overcome these hurdles. I've been consulting with Dr. Graham for almost 2 weeks now, and its really making all the difference. He's already given me some tools to get myself out of the rut of my behavior patterns, and my body is definitely cleaning house, but in the past two weeks, I've gotten closer to my goals than I have in over a year of trying by myself. I couldn't be more pleased with this.

So....sorry for the long, rambling post. My point? I've been there. I want you to know that you are not alone. 811 is hard, emotionally. Most of us, even if we know all about it, and have done all the reading on the practicalities of 811, are not ready to deal with it emotionally. I think I read someone describe it on another board as "it decreases your b.s. barrier." I found it hard to give up salt, stimulants, fats, etc. I'm pretty sure Alissa wrote at some point that she has seen many raw fooders "doing fine," then try this program and get so frustrated with it that they go back to cooked. There came a point where I gave up totally and went back to cooked, and it wasn't until I was truly ready for this that I was able to come back. And there came a point where I sort of got stuck in my own transition to the point where I needed some help and new ideas. And, with help, I realized that I really wasn't doing it as well as I could have been, and that is where some challenges arose...

More to share on this later. I'd be happy to talk more about some of the insights I've had on this lately. Feel free to ask any questions you'd like.

And, feel better, Twinyoga! =) I hope knowing that you are not alone is helpful to you...

-Bethany =)

[DavidZaneMason]

-Don't talk yourself out of your dreams. Just be honest and set realistic goals. If you fail...set smaller goals. The only true failure is the failure to try. You cannot always control outside circumstance.....only the level of your own giving. :)

-David Mason

[Sharon in Colorado]

Like Bethany I agree that the 811 may have caused sudden cravings. And like Fiddler, if you weren't getting enough calories it could also have triggered the cooked food cravings as wel. Because maybe you were thinking you should eat some healthy low fat cooked instead of some kind of high-fat raw concoction. It is hard to determine which is a better choice.

Even Dr. Graham says most people can't just jump from point a to point b right away. You should take your time getting there.

By the way, I totally believe that this type of diet is healthy and can only benefit a person who does it correctly. I have only done it for short periods of time too. It is just something that maybe not everyone can jump into and stick with, especially if, as Bethany mentioned, they are giving up a lot of stimulants like salts and spices as well as drastically reduce the intake of fat all at once.

I think if you ate less than 30 days cooked within a year that is definately progress! Just keep moving forward - it is a process but you are doing great!

[twinyoga]

Thanks, everyone. I'm really riding this out and just observing.

Your comments are so great. Right now I'm taking a break from food and just sipping water for 24 hours. I stopped eating early yesterday, so I slept through the worst part of the fast (for me!).

Being a "yogi" I have lots of friends who practice ayurveda. So I read books on that subject last night.

Whether I get enough calories I don't know. According to fit day I get probably about 800-1200 on 8/1/1 and maybe about 1200-1500 on regular raw. I so want to lose weight and I just don't know what my body needs in calories.

I have thrived on cooked foods (whole foods that are cooked, lots of raw) in the past, and I have been doing raw for a year with some ups and downs. I gotta listen to my body for a while. Even if that means experimenting a bit. And, like Bethany, I know raw is fabulous and an ultimate goal. I'm so glad I have an appointment with my holistic doc next week. :)

Gotta get the twin's dressed. Thank's again. I'll keep you posted.

Oh, and yes, of course I need more sleep and time for myself, but I'm a Mom of twins! :)

[yeahbethany]

TwinYoga,

You are definitely not getting enough calories. I don't know how tall you are, or how much you weigh, or how active you are, but I would assume you need at least 1800-2200 calories. The exact numbers will depend on a lot of factors.

What have you read/heard about 811? I think it really does take a knowledge base to "do it right", and even with that base, I'm really benefiting from individual guidance.

A good place for you to go is this message board:

http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/index.html

Dr. Graham answers many of the questions that newbies have on this board. Searching the archives might be good. He has said there numerous times that one of the reasons people have cravings for starches, cooked foods, etc, is not getting enough calories from fruit. This was one of my problems, to be sure.

To get more calories.....bananas, bananas, bananas will help.

I'm glad you are taking a rest today. How are you feeling?

-Bethany

[blessed]

I was just eating some avocadoes,lettuce,peppers, one time a day. I just wasn't hungry and i started feeling sick, a real bad headache, like a tight band was around my head, dizzy and tingling in my arms and hands and the bottom of my feet.
Thanks to our friends here i looked into "low blood sugar" and got some herbal tablets for it.
My husband had some cooked chickpeas, i've given them up but he told me i needed to add some cooked foods to my diet because i wasn't eating enough.
I considered it but last night i ate some kale with sliced avocado and smal sliced yellow squash and today i'm feeling better.
Yes, the temptation was there but i didn't give in, i have in the past but don't feel bad it's easy to think that cooked food will save us during difficult times.
Hang in there, BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ann

[Ariannah]

After the marathon, I decided to eat some cooked food sometimes. The amount of cooked in my diet gradually increased. I decided that 811 was too restrictive. Eventually, by February 2006, I had started even eating junk food.

That completely is like I was by February.

By March, I hated the way I felt on cooked food. I hated the way I looked on cooked food (put on 20 pounds!). I hated the way my voice sounded (not as clear and melodious). So, in the middle of March, I came back to raw.

It took me a lot longer to come back and I gained slightly more than 20, but how I feel on raw is just beyond compare for me.

[yeahbethany]

You said it, Rawandnatural!

I look at photos of me last summer (simple raw) compared with Christmas, and I think "what was I THINKING?" "Why did I do that to myself?"

Hopefully I'll have some new photos soon!

[Pailani]

So, then, maybe trying for 8/1/1 is risky and should be attempted only with extreme caution and if you have the means to get personal counseling from a professional?

Rawnora says that you shouldn't ever think you're going to stay in the same place you're at right now, that transition is only a temporary thing, and eventually you get to more optimal eating, which seems to me to be something like 8/1/1. But then, people who actually attempt 8/1/1 crash and give up the raw diet altogether, so maybe being stuck in transition indefinitely eating salt, spices and fats isn't a bad idea??

[fiddler]

So, then, maybe trying for 8/1/1 is risky and should be attempted only with extreme caution and if you have the means to get personal counseling from a professional?

Rawnora says that you shouldn't ever think you're going to stay in the same place you're at right now, that transition is only a temporary thing, and eventually you get to more optimal eating, which seems to me to be something like 8/1/1. But then, people who actually attempt 8/1/1 crash and give up the raw diet altogether, so maybe being stuck in transition indefinitely eating salt, spices and fats isn't a bad idea??

If we undereat calories on any diet we're going to have some challenges. I don't think 811 is risky at all. However, I do think one really needs to read and understand the program. The program is laid out really well on Doug's site www.foodnsport.com and also in the discussions on www.vegsource.com
Stretch but don't tear. Strive to eat optimally and live to the fullest... :)

BTW, I picked up 2 cases (36 count each) of ripe, organic apricots from a distributor on the discounted truck for $1.00 each. That's less than $.03 cents an apricot! Downed a dozen or so of 'em just now! Looks like I'll be eating lots of apricots today and tomorrow :)

Cheers,
Fiddler