Where is the proof?

[Alissa]

Druid,

you have every right to want to find scientific fact about the raw vegan lifestyle, but what I want to know, is why do you expect US on this board to find it for you?

Thank you RP.

Druid, this is not what this board is for. we all believe that raw food is the best diet for us so read the mission statement.

Here is part of it below:

“This is a raw food board for asking and receiving questions and answers in regards to going and staying raw. This board is for the support of the raw food lifestyle, getting and giving advice and connecting with other people who are STRIVING TO GO AND BE RAW VEGAN. It is not for debating whether this diet is good or bad or for posting questions that try to debunk the raw food diet. This board is for people wanting support and connection.

There is enough fear and mistruth and debating about diet going on in all of the places outside of this Internet circle. This is not the place for that.”

FOR THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY.
FOR THOSE WHO DONÂ’T UNDERSTAND, NO EXPLANATION WILL EVER BE ENOUGH.

Please find your so called 'scientific' evidence somewhere else, this is not the place for it. This is a raw food support board.

Thank you,
Alissa

[Indi]

Hi Druid, Welcome

Raw has totally changed my life!
I have reclaimed my health through eating this way!

RAW IS TOTALLY EXPERIENTIAL!

NO AMOUNT FO READING, FACT FINDING OR SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE could have prepared me for this experience!

I have a good indication as to what is happening inside my body as i can SEE what is happening on the outside!

I feel free and so alive!

There is no way that any scientific data would convince me to return to the old eating patterns and or suppressive medication!

I listen to my body and my body chooses RAW!

Maybe you might like to get involved in Raw science. Embark on the 30 day challenge!

We are all here to support you! :)

Ps I am in the process of working to remineralise my teeth.

I vomited after almost every meal for over 20 years.
( As you may imagine, I tried many ways to stop this happening)
As a result stomach acid has been eroding my tooth enamel.

Since eating raw vegan, I no longer vomit, therefore removing the Cause of the problem. (a good start)

My dentist has told me that I can not repair the enamel.

Thats HIS opinion!
These are MY teeth.......

Its taken time to erode, so may take a while to repair.

With the cause removed, (through raw vegan diet) I stand a good chance of sucess, as experience has taught me that eating raw food regenerates and rejuvenates!

I will be posting my journey/ findings, on this site.
:)

[cactus]

I know loads of people have answered but I just wanted to add my little bit, I don't post much cos I don't usually have much to say but in this case I can speak with personal experience,
I was sceptical at the start, but I had so many really serious health issues and I was so depressed, suicidal etc because I just used to think whats the point, I am sick most everyday I feel pain most everyday, why bother with life, so I decided to try one last thing and this was it, OK its not proof to anyone else, but to me its huge proof, I had so many problems and I won't go into them all, but I can say that my entire life changed, I no longer have constant stomach pain,(ibs) pain from endometriosis and other issues( I have Lupus,) I do still have lupus, but the symptoms are so small that sometimes I don't remember I have it, I am no longer on any medications and my life, is not even comparable to how it was, I have gone on and off this way of life a couple of times and each time I come back because each time my health deteriorates and I become ill again, all the old issues come back and I get depressed, so I figure its the only way of life for me now, my husband who has seen the change (and not to mention how much better our marriage is when I'm not grumpy and depressed all the time from pain)
swears by it, although he wont do it himself :) so proof, I don't know the science of it, but my granny always used to say the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and she was right!!!

[Arky]

Mankind survived for hundreds of millenia on fresh, raw, wild vegetables, fruit, sprouts, seeds and nuts. Only in the last 150years or so has mankind denatured food to such an extent that it bears little or no resemblance to natural food and contains next to no nutritional value.

What factors have contributed to this?:-


The search for greater shelflife for practical and economic purposes. However, it is (if you open your EYES to the fact, rather than compliantly allowing yourself to be brainwashed), an inescapable fact that a great many of natures most powerful nutrients are short-lived.

mass brainwashing through media Who has the biggest profits, through their dubious activities, to spend on advertising? Not the organic farmers, that's for sure. So who has the biggest influence over the food choices (and, more tragically, nutritional beliefs) of the general populace? Certainly not the organic farmers...


The rise in power and profit of the pharmaceutical industry.

The rise in power and profit of genetic crop engineering companies.

The rise in power and profit of livestock hormone producing companies.

The rise in power and profit of pesticide production companies (pesticide is absurd and we already KNOW it is absurd - proper mineralisation of the soil, though natural fertilization and the proliferation of natural soil organisms, yields crops naturally resistant to pests (see McCarrison, G.T. Wrench etc.). Pesticides and chemical fertilizers cannot exist without one another. Such is the power and influence of fertilizer and pesticide-profiteers that organic farming is deliberately fought against, so as to benefit company bank accounts, rather than the health and wellbeing of the populace. The public, and employees (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/sho...light=congress), are LITERALLY paying for some company's profits with their own health.

The extreme (and downright evil) influence of such commercial interests on governmental activity, even to the point of EXPLICITLY seeking to prevent human beings from exercising their right to choose healthy food on the basis of ingredient information lawfully required.
(http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11400). Even raw, unfractionated, food still routinely gets irradiated and doused with flouride, chlorine, or wax, before it gets to supermarket shelves. It is becoming increasingly difficult to avoid such pitfalls and to find true organic produce, and this is no coincidence.

Notice how many states actually prohibit naturopaths from setting up a new practice. SUCH is the influence of pharmaceutical companies that this truly disgusting state of affairs has actually made it into the statute books.

Modern foods are so denatured that they are invariably almost entirely enzyme deficient. Isn't it one hell of a coincidence that pathologists are finding increasingly enlarged pancreases in cadavers? Certainly food for thought, that one..

Exponential increase in incidences of major, life-threatening, diseases over the last 150years, despite the rise of alopathy and pharmaceutical science.

Exponential increase in materialism amongst the general populace in western society.


Can you see any patterns?

Do you notice that ALL of these have occurred in direct parallel with the industrial revolution? Commercial machinery's (in both the literal and the abstract senses) influence on the nutrient supply has been devastating but has been mercilessly portrayed, by those profiting from it, as an improvement on nature. Just take a look at Weston Price's findings, across indigenous peoples the world over. In as little as a SINGLE generation, refined, fractionated, industrialised foods were photographically documented to exert SHOCKING negative influences on the physiology of human beings, abundantly visible, even on the level of skeletal structure, let alone internal organ structure and function.

Do you notice that NONE of these -not ONE- has been undertaken for the purposes of INCREASING nutritional status of the food or the consumer of that substance. The greater the industrial involvement, invariably, the less nutritional value remains in the food and, of course, the more money may be made, by virtue of creaming off valuable nutrients for other markets, by 'diluting' whatever valuable nutrients may still exist in the food with other less nutritious elements.

John Robbins' 'Diet For a New America' and Howard F. Lyman's 'Mad Cowboy' both examine the utterly inhumane pursuits of companies involved with livestock growth hormones and genetic crop engineering - they have become so tragically powerful amidst the corruption of the political and commercial climate in the US that it is often almost impossible for farmers to farm without their products because the odds are deliberately and maliciously stacked against them.

One simply HAS to draw the connection, in one's own thought processes, between the activities of the pharmaceutical companies and the companies involved with the systemic destruction of natural processes in agriculture and livestock farming - i.e. artifical fertilizers, pesticides, growth hormones, genetic engineering of crops. They are inextricably entwined.

One need not defend a decision to eat raw - it is the most natural way to eat and the way mankind has evolved. It involves the absolute minimum of human intervention, and thus the absolute minimum of corruptive, insidious, involvement. That's not propoganda - it is the truth, should one care to truly open one's eyes and mind to see it. For anyone to seek to challenge you for eating in a wholesome, natural, non-denatured manner, is simply absurd beyone belief. Sure, if you get fanatical about it and obsess about every last, infinitessimally small, morsel of food being absolutely 100% raw then their might be some room for debating your behaviour, but, in principle, their is no serious, valid, logical, argument against eating a predominantly-raw, wholefoods, natural diet.



What is so laughable about your post, Druid, is that, in order to ask the question of us (perhaps for trolling purposes, but that doesn't really concern me), you must already KNOW that there is something 'not quite right' about the Standard Western Diet. Even if you ask the question for amusement, you would be a total fool to ignore all of the points people have generously contributed to this thread. I'll leave you with just two more thoughts - when you seek information on a subject as frought with potential pitfalls as human nutrition and health, do you ever consider the SOURCE of that information? None of us, in this online community, have any commercial interest in guiding you towards eating as we do - on the contrary, we are all encouraging and supporting each other, and you, to eat foods with the minimum of human intervention and profiteering. I wonder if, in your heart of hearts, you can say the same about a can of cola or a pre-packaged microwave meal..?

"Where is the proof" that a predominantly-raw, wholefood diet is the best approach to human nutrition? Simple - you would not be here otherwise, because, even with the discovery of fire it is predominantly what your ancestors ate for hundreds of thousands of years before microwaves, TV dinners and sodapop. The likes of Weston Price observed this, firsthand, by visiting cultures who had, prior to the influence of industrialised foods, maintained scintillating health and consumed many raw fresh foods.


J.

[jimi]

Gary Null is a tremendous resource for the "prove it with science" crowd. PHD in nutrition and dozens of years of accumulated research. He links to 100's of scientific studies, medical journals, and relevant articles. He breaks them down to the key findings on his internet radio show.

It gets a little dry for me, but may be just the ticket for you - dfferent strokes and all --->

[tglasco4]

Personal experience and testimony is really the only proof I could offer. If anyone feels that is not good enough, they can certainly choose (as a free moral agent), to not do raw. From what I have read, seen and personally experienced, I'll take my chances with raw.

Peace.

Todd

[dreamrawalwz]

I'm sure there is scientfic proof somewhere, but personally I havn't felt the need to search for it when I found out the results for myself. You don't need to defend yourslef. Just absorb the information you read on this board and other books and just live your life. Why did you go vegan? You said because heart attack right? Where's the scientific proof there? You FELT the adverse effects of eating meat and so you changed your way to feel better physcially right? Maybe I'm wrong on that asumption. Why not do the same for raw?

[Arky]

Check out Mike Nash's EXCELLENT 'Aggressive Health' for a bundle of scientific discussion on eating high-raw (don't be put off by the title and the hard-sell, it's a really great book).


J.

[misslinda]

;) Hey Druid,

I hope we didn't overwhelm or scare you It really sounds like you are desperately wanting to change your life and heal............. :)

I know in your previous posts from months ago, you already have Alissa's book and DVD. How 'bout a fresh new start? We can definately walk you thru along the way.......

Are you keeping a journal?

Welcome back,
:)

[technip]

I am the proof.

[heabrook]

I'm with misslinda. Let us know how we can assist you, and please feel free to keep a journal to monitor your progress.

You can search for proof and for advice/testimonials from others. However, sometimes it is best to find the proof within yourself. :)

If you choose to take the 30-day raw challenge, let us know and keep us updated. Good luck to you.

best,
heather

[yeahbethany]

The most effective scientific arguments I have heard for raw foods are those of Dr. Doug Graham and Rozalind Gruben. Their DVD series "Making Friends With Your Food" really explains everything in such as way that those without a scientific background can understand it. It really speaks to everyone's common sense.

Hope you can find what you are looking for, druid.

-Bethany =)

[druid]

Wow. I am suprised by the comments, suggestions and responses!

Thank you all very much!

My next meal will be 100% raw, tomorrow I will do the same, all day.

[druid]

Thank you RP.

Druid, this is not what this board is for. we all believe that raw food is the best diet for us so read the mission statement.

Here is part of it below:

“This is a raw food board for asking and receiving questions and answers in regards to going and staying raw. This board is for the support of the raw food lifestyle, getting and giving advice and connecting with other people who are STRIVING TO GO AND BE RAW VEGAN. It is not for debating whether this diet is good or bad or for posting questions that try to debunk the raw food diet. This board is for people wanting support and connection.

There is enough fear and mistruth and debating about diet going on in all of the places outside of this Internet circle. This is not the place for that.”

FOR THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY.
FOR THOSE WHO DONÂ’T UNDERSTAND, NO EXPLANATION WILL EVER BE ENOUGH.

Please find your so called 'scientific' evidence somewhere else, this is not the place for it. This is a raw food support board.

Thank you,
Alissa

and this is what a customer receives that bought your book, bought your dvd and talked to you on the phone? Take my scientific evidence somewhere else, this isnt the place for it? Thank you.

[misslinda]

LOL.....you still drinking coffee Druid?