how many take b12 supplements?

[Arky]

I see this one as an exceedingly simple issue - there is no convincing argument against B12 supplementation, yet there are considerable grounds for concern that B12 deficiency may be a potential occurrence in a vegan diet. I don't dispute that the jury is still out on this one (due, in no small part, to the difficulties of accurately measuring B12 serum levels with current technology), but there is, on balance, far more good reason to play it 'safe' than to play it 'riskily' (and before anyone opts to attack me, please note that I use the term relatively).

Do I run any risk, however small, of peripheral neuropathy as a consequence of taking a B12 supplement? NO

Do I run any risk, however small, of peripheral neuropathy as a consequence of NOT taking a B12 supplement? Well, maybe.

Who cares if there is no absolute proof - I'll play it safe since there is considerably less risk in taking that option.

Simple. Not rocket science...

To be frank, I believe this has as much to do with ideology, on the part of the non-supplementers, as it does to do with the present state of play, evidence-wise. The vegan ideology is wonderful and admirable from a philosophical perspective, however, there are, like it or not, potential pitfalls with the vegan diet, and these are hard to acknowledge within the framework of such a pure, idealistic, philosophy, so many choose not to allow any 'impurities' to impinge upon their vegan philosophy, because acknowledging that the philosophy just might be imperfect on a practical level, is too much for them to handle. If it comes to choosing between purity of philosophy or peripheral neuropathy, I'm afraid the latter gets my attention first and foremost, much though I admire the commitment of 'purist' vegans.


J.

[fruit]

Thanks again for all the replies........
Does anyone know how long it takes for the body to become deficient?
I know when i was pregnant with my son i was on a sad mainly fastfood and i was severe anemic.At the time i was still in my teens and payed no attention to it,Not really knowing how dangerous it could really be.I at absolutly no produce,I look back now and think how i wish i would have known how bad that was.My son was a premature baby and now has asthma,I wonder if things could have been different had i tooken better care of myself and my baby growing inside me.

[firefaery]

That's a tough question that really can't be answered. IT depends on your stores before going vegan, your absorption and your diet. Beware of answers that are just blanket statements like: 3 years. That doesn't take YOU into account.

I'm sorry your son had such difficulties and I'm proud of you for asking the tough questions. What we do in pregnancy (and before) does affect our kids much more than anyone realizes. My kids were both affected by my poor health. But, knowing better, I'm doing better!

[Gosia]

"Does anyone know how long it takes for the body to become deficient?"

Assuming what? That you eat cooked food, eat meat, eat junk food, take drugs, stress out about anything you can and have terrible digestion? Or, that you eat raw vegan foods, exercise, have positive outlook on life and your digestion is great? (Note that veganism per se does not cause any deficiences. :) )

Gosia.

[karenisraw]

Rawfigure,

I went and googled spirulina as I had read your post and was excited about the possiblity of b-12 in plant foods. Here is what one article said about b-12 that you may not be aware of:

Vitamin B12

Vitamin B12 is a member of the vitamin B complex. It contains cobalt, and so is also known as cobalamin. It is exclusively synthesised by bacteria and is found primarily in meat, eggs and dairy products. There has been considerable research into proposed plant sources of vitamin B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds, and algae such as spirulina have all been suggested as containing significant B12. However, the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be unavailable to humans and so these foods should not be relied upon as safe sources. Many vegan foods are supplemented with B12. Vitamin B12 is necessary for the synthesis of red blood cells, the maintenance of the nervous system, and growth and development in children. Deficiency can cause anaemia. Vitamin B12 neuropathy, involving the degeneration of nerve fibres and irreversible neurological damage, can also occur.

I will be back with the link to this article which explains much more about B-12.

Here is the link to the rest of the article.

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html

k

[fiddler]

I see this one as an exceedingly simple issue - there is no convincing argument against B12 supplementation, yet there are considerable grounds for concern that B12 deficiency may be a potential occurrence in a vegan diet. I don't dispute that the jury is still out on this one (due, in no small part, to the difficulties of accurately measuring B12 serum levels with current technology), but there is, on balance, far more good reason to play it 'safe' than to play it 'riskily' (and before anyone opts to attack me, please note that I use the term relatively).

Do I run any risk, however small, of peripheral neuropathy as a consequence of taking a B12 supplement? NO

Do I run any risk, however small, of peripheral neuropathy as a consequence of NOT taking a B12 supplement? Well, maybe.

Who cares if there is no absolute proof - I'll play it safe since there is considerably less risk in taking that option.

Simple. Not rocket science...

To be frank, I believe this has as much to do with ideology, on the part of the non-supplementers, as it does to do with the present state of play, evidence-wise. The vegan ideology is wonderful and admirable from a philosophical perspective, however, there are, like it or not, potential pitfalls with the vegan diet, and these are hard to acknowledge within the framework of such a pure, idealistic, philosophy, so many choose not to allow any 'impurities' to impinge upon their vegan philosophy, because acknowledging that the philosophy just might be imperfect on a practical level, is too much for them to handle. If it comes to choosing between purity of philosophy or peripheral neuropathy, I'm afraid the latter gets my attention first and foremost, much though I admire the commitment of 'purist' vegans.
J.

Arky, I like the way you think! [Sam Kinnison in "Back to School"]

Can you recommend some articles supporting this position? I'm interested in reading them since I pop a B12 pill now and then.

[karenisraw]

Gosia,

I found this in the article that I posted a link to above.

"The current nutritional consensus is that no plant foods can be relied on as a safe source of vitamin B12.

Bacteria present in the large intestine are able to synthesise B12. In the past, it has been thought that the B12 produced by these colonic bacteria could be absorbed and utilised by humans. However, the bacteria produce B12 too far down the intestine for absorption to occur, B12 not being absorbed through the colon lining."

You may want to look somemore into the B-12 issue.

k
:)

[karenisraw]

Arky,

I have discovered that until I brilliantly discover all there is to know about nutrition and science, that I had better be safe than sorry.

I too had the vision of eating berries off of vines, lapping up cool spring water from a fountain filled pond, and cracking nuts with a rock in a flower filled forest, however, I had to wake up from my wonderful dream and drive to the NHF store and find what was available and inexpensive. I believe that there may be plant sources of B-12 out there and maybe not. I just have not found them yet. Until then I will have dreams of plucking b-12 suppliment off of lush bushes in the meadow.

k

[Gosia]

Karenisraw, I am well familiar with this argument (as I said, I have researched the literature carefully) as well as with the counter arguments. There isn't anything published that proves veganism per se causes deficiences, nor do I expect anything like that to be ever published.

In contrary, I believe that becoming raw vegan is that best thing one can do for one's health.

Do not feel the need to convince me. I have already chewed through all the arguments, digested them and spat them out! :)

Gosia.


PS Great points on the related topic: http://www.rawschool.com/nutrientdeficiency.htm

[RawTruth]

Again --

I strongly suggest you read the three threads Alissa posted here on this forum.

Funny how some will search alll over the place but ignore information that our host believes relevant enough to raw veganism to put right here where we can read it.

[*SunChild*]

I pop a chewable once or twice a week, knowing that I'm getting some keeps me at ease.

I'm not a fan of supplements, I do drink vital greens (all raw, dried and powdered greens & algae)...and just a bit of b12 occasionally.

Blessings~ Shivananda, I enjoyed all that you wrote.

[karenisraw]

Here is an article that I found in a thread here on RFT posted by Alissa.

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/sho...highlight=b-12

k

[firefaery]

When people post questions like this I assume they have done the research and are looking for people to speak up about how to apply it. I have read Alissa's links, but they don't apply to me. Not much that has been written really does because it doen't address pre-existing conditions like malabsorption, lack of ability to convert and other kinds of intestinal damage. I can listen happily to the theories, and then make sure that I'm being responsible and safe. I take what I can, and make the appropriate adjusments.

[JMD]

I do take a multi -B daily. I do not over-supplement but FOR ME these help.

[rawnora]

I just wanted to say how much I admire your dedication to truth, Gosia. The belief system that has sprung up around raw veganism is extremely popular and entrenched, and it takes a very strong, discerning and independent mind to go against it. Thanks for being such an inspiration to me and others.
Nora
www.RawSchool.com