how many take b12 supplements?

[fruit]

I was just wondering how many ppl take supplements for b12?
How long before ones body becomes deficient?
or is there enough b12 in the foods we eat?

[firefaery]

I know my opinion here isn't popular...but since you asked.

Anyone can be deficient-omnis as well as vegans. It depends on how well you are absorbing B-12. It can be checked by a plasma test (a standard blood test is faulty.) I was deficient as an omni, and so I do continue to take a supplement. It is found in plant foods, but there is debate as to whether or not it is usable. Some great sources say it is. I personally believe that everyone is different and the only way to responsibly monitor yourself is to test and know where you stand. If you have plenty-don't worry about supplementation. If you don't, think about it.

I supplement. B-12 deficiency isnt' something I want to mess with again. Often times by the time you catch it, the damage (generally neurological) is irreversible. Just know your body and where you stand. With nutrition, we have enough technology to not have to live in fear. When I am absorbing nutrients better, I hope to back off on the supplement. But there's no reason (IMO) to gamble on this issue when you can easily get answers that are not just abstract studies, but a clear reading of your body.

[sport]

It was my intention to supplement and I do have them, but have forgotton to take them for months. This has reminded me. I am now saying has my body deliberatly allowed me to forget. I see no harm in taking them just in case.

[chilove]

I don't supplement and I don't worry about it all.

Audrey

[marigold]

yeah i do..i know gabrielle cousens really plugs this one - as do many of the "top raw food talkers" i was listening to the fresh festival (uk) lectures on cd and most people were really urging people to take note...

[Shivananda]

I was just wondering how many ppl take supplements for b12?

This is one I feel is just not worth taking chances on, because I've had 2 good long term vegan friends go seriously B12 deficient, and one has suffered permanent nerve damage as a result, and the other had to get B12 injections on a regualr basis over a long time to restore natural energy.

So I use Red Star Vegetarian Nutritional Yeast in my unCooking, as well as a periodic boost from a high value sublingual supplement.

And I make sure I am checked for B12 level whenever having blood analysis done.

heres a link to an FAQ on this issue from Physicians for Social Responsibility:
http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/b12.html

[Gosia]

None. :)

“There is no such thing as a deficiency of vitamin B12, even in 100% raw vegans. They do not have to eat dirt, animal products, or take pills to secure coenzymes of B12. Bacteria in the intestinal tract make it for us, and the metabolically usable and necessary forms of coenzyme B12 are contained in unprocessed, fresh natural plant foods, particularly in nuts and seeds. The real problem in so-called B12 deficiency is a failure of digestion and absorption of foods, rather than a deficiency of the vitamin itself.”
(Dr Vetrano, read this recent, comprehensive article on B12 at http://www.roylretreat.com/articles/b12.html )

All you need to know about B12:
http://www.rawgosia.com/articles/sevenpoints.html


Gosia.

[Shivananda]

“There is no such thing as a deficiency of vitamin B12, even in 100% raw vegans.

Unfortunately, I find this to be just awful, wishful thinking at its very worst. Vitamin B12 deficiency is not only a scientifically proven fact, but it is an issue of special import to vegans, because the vitamin B12 produced by bacteria in the lower digestive tract body is not absorbed by the body at all, but is merely excreted, unused. We MUST ingest the B12 our body needs to be healthy, one way or another.

And I repeat, I have two very, very close, intimate friends, both longtime vegans who are currently dealing with this very issue, and one has permanent, irreversible nerve damage as a result. She's the one I really wanted to marry when I lived in the Northwest. She's stunningly beautiful, awesomely talented, and totally messed up forever by long term "healthy" eating choices that simply did not provide for her B12 needs.

The other one? Well, she's stunningly beautiful, is way smarter than me, was my original raw food "guru," and has had to get a whole series of B12 shots to try and correct the deficiency that was draining her of energy. With any luck, I may still get to marry her.

So this subject hits very close to home. It's not some vague theory by some far off writer, to me. It directly touches my intimate life. Please don't quote quackery to me when I know better from personal experience. B12 deficiency is real, and it is very serious business.

Physicians Committe for Responsible Medicine, perhaps the foremost organization of Western MDs who advocate FOR a vegan diet, have numerous warnings about Vitamin B12 deficiency on their very, very informative website. I suggest you start there in deciding for yourself whether the risk of ignoring this issue is worth it to you. To me it is not.

www.pcrm.org

[Gosia]

Shivananda, of course I disagree with all that you said, and I could easily dispute every argument listed, starting from the very obvious fact that there is not scientific proof of B12 deficiency (and this is coming from a scientist who has thoroughly researched the existing literature on B12). Nevertheless, I do not come here to argue, and am not interested in starting/continuing a never-ending discussion on the topic.

To those interested in learning the arguments that I am not listing here due to the space limitations, these are easily accessible on the links that I listed (if you are prepared to take the time :) ).

Gosia.

[RawTruth]

Fruit --

Go to the Want to know more about raw? section on this forum's Home page.

Alissa posted three -- count 'em -- three statements/threads about B12 there for beginning and questioning raw fooders.

I would post the links here, but I figure you're definitely clever enough to find it yourself!!

I personally pop a sublingual B12 every 4 to 6 months. Or ... hmmmm ... that was my intention, but I can't remember the last time. Ha ha!! Well, I used to do this.

I was a vegetarian/vegan for over 20 yrs before going raw, and I was careful about this. I DO NOT think that being raw vegan is the same as being cooked vegan. (I am NOT interested in debating or defending my opinion, which I am entitled to, here.)

[fruit]

Thanks everybody for your replies
I will go search that right now rawtruth.

[firefaery]

We had B-12 deficiencies, but we also had severely damaged guts. Very severely damaged. We weren't absorbing anything. So-I guess that fits. I also think there's a difference between raw and cooked, but we haven't gotten healed enough or far enough on the raw path to figure that out.

FWIW, I will still test to see what my body needs-as everyone is very different.

[rawfigure]

I use spirulina supposedly A teaspoon of Spirulina supplies 2 1/2 times the Recommended Daily Allowance of vitamin B12.

[Shivananda]

I use spirulina supposedly A teaspoon of Spirulina supplies 2 1/2 times the Recommended Daily Allowance of vitamin B12.

Maybe, maybe not.

I think this fact sheet from the venerable Vegetarian Society of the UK is pretty well balanced on the topic... it's not not extreme in any direction.

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html

[karenisraw]

I use a multi vitamin and mineral suppliment which takes care of my RDA allowance of B-12, which was according to my very detailed entries on Fitday.com said I was at ZERO consumption.

First of all, my raw vegan doctor who is not only an M.D. but a nutritional scientist and holistic practioner in addition to owning a raw vegan restaraunt and raw beauty spa as well as being the president Emeritus of the University of Natural Medicine in Sante Fe New Mexico, (whew) says to MAKE sure you are getting enough Vitamin D and Vitamin B-12 if on a raw vegan diet as many people (not only raw vegans) are deficient in those. He highly supports the use of tests and supplimentation. He also sells vitamins and minerals in his shop. The highest quality. He believes that some people do have deficiencies and raw vegans sometimes have deficiencies that they have to take suppliments for if they are not able to with food.

I did not know about the spirulina, but after writing this I am going to google it to see what it is all about.

Personally, I don't want to mess with my body and take any chances so I am going to suppliment all I need to. Also, with the demineralization of soil, I don't trust that all our fruits and veggies are completely chock full of what they say on the typical quides to the nutritonal values of these things.

I would say to make sure you are getting what you need, even if it means not being as "pure" a raw vegan as some people feel they need to be.

k