Stop saying that you need more protein.

[Sunshine9]

I would disagree with the notion that we can just assume that fruits and vegetables provide every raw foodist with an adequate amount of protein. Every body is different, and I know for me personally I need more protein than is provided by just greens. I noticed that I stopped feeling hungry all the time once I added in a little bit of protein powder, spirulina, some seeds, and even more dark leafies. If I eat just sweet fruit & salad all day i would feel spacey and hungry.. I need to add in more density a few days a week.

According to Cousens there are two metabolic types-- a fast or slow oxidizer. Fast oxidizers need more protein and fat, and slow oxidizers need more carbs. He recommends getting protein beyond just greens. He certainly isn't advocating a high protein diet by any means, but rather he puts attention on the fact that it will be difficult for a fast oxidizer to be balanced and satisfied on a really high carb diet. I think it's an interesting idea... he talks about it in "Conscious Eating."

On a lighter note, I usually don't even answer the protein question anymore. I just say something like, "Have you ever heard of a vegetarian dying from too little protein? Yeah, I haven't either" That usually quiets most people...Or I'll say, "Oh wow everywhere, fruits, vegetables, greens, flax seeds, nuts, seeds, sea weed, protein powder, spirulina, algaes, some people do bee pollen, hemp protein powder." Haha can't really argue with that, can ya?

:)

[RawTruth]

My answer to Where do you get your protein? is:

-- the same place those big strong gorillas get theirs.

OR

-- the same place those cows (or steer) get theirs.

It quiets them right away, gets them thinking, and usually puts an interesting puzzled expression on their faces.

Raw food diet = raw fruits, veggies (majorly green leafies), seeds, and nuts = enough protein.

Be careful not to keep the cooked food/medical/nutritional/scientific/government RDA mindset when switched to raw and living foods. The body doesn't react the same.

Caveat: what I've said above applies to those who are eating completely raw.

Oh -- so that no one feels my previous sentence is putting them down, I want to point out that this is my "opinion" -- even though I'd also like to note that it's Alissa's (and other very very experienced raw folks') belief and the knowledge on which they base their practices.

[tglasco4]

Quick.....someone kill the Protien Myth!!

[onesmartcookie]

My answer to Where do you get your protein? is:

-- the same place those big strong gorillas get theirs.

OR

-- the same place those cows (or steer) get theirs.

Though I hear you on this one, I've always wondered about this because...we're obviously NOT gorillas or cows, and have different needs than them. I'm currently reading "Green for Life" by victoria Boutenko and she states that we share 99.4% of our genes with chimps...pretty remarkable. But, there are still some obvious major differences. I'm no human exceptionalist, but I guess this argument and retort doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If I were questioning a raw foodist and they answered by comparing themselves to other species...I'm not sure I would buy it. Hmmm.

Any thoughts?

[Evelynn]

This is probably the hardest part of veganism--dealing with the Protein Police.
I'm still in high school, and I have to suffer through the food pyramid explanations and "healthy eating guidelines" every single year, except this time around I more or less tuned it out. Just yesterday I told my friend that I hadn't taken a drug in over a year, and he said, "What about vitamins?" I said, "No." My Biology partner told me that I should, because I wasn't getting enough vitamins and minerals without meat...and then she brought up protein. Then another friend walked over at the end of class, sat down next to me, and went on this ballistic rant about calcium, since a spiral disc in the form of a nutrition seminar was waved in her face earlier that day. She had been told that dairy was essential to health. ESSENTIAL! This really, truly baffles me--can people not SEE what is wrong with that?

Honestly, do we go around TELLING people not to eat the way they do? I don't know about everyone else, but I'm attacked constantly! I've been called to the nurse and the guidance office several times. I've had to fill out an eating disorder survey, listen to the nurse's talk of soy products and the joys of dairy, and she even asked me to attend a "Survivor" seminar about nutrition (it was targeted at anorexics and bulimics). I know my friends are worried, but they're so conditioned that they refuse to hear my defense. That's all I ever do--I'm never on the offensive. Even my (conventional) doctor told me that veganism was probably healthier than SAD.

Another question. If you did happen to have a protein deficiency, wouldn't you crave foods with lots of protein, like nuts and seeds?

Sorry to give you my life story there.
Evie

[firefaery]

I agree. I'm all for raw, but my stomach does not have multiple chambers. I don't really think I'm getting as much from the greens as the cows.

Also, there are many many many studies that show chimps aren't vegan and eat a substantial amount of insects and some even actively hunt meat. So I wouldn't be impressed by that either if I was askng where a raw VEGAN got their protein.

I think the best evidence is how well *I* am doing on this diet. I get plenty of protein even nursing AND pregnant. I always know if I'm low and just down some chia seeds or throw some nut butter on an apple or something. I don't feel animal products are necessary at all unless you have seriously major medical issues going on. A healthy person can thrive on raw veganism. How many SADers have you seen that look like they are thriving?

[Evelynn]

Not many, firefaery!

If they do bring up the cow/chimp argument, you could always ask if they get the same amount of protein from meat as a wolf or a bear would...

[firefaery]

Not many what? SADers?

Clearly they aren't getting as much as an animal who is primarily a carnivore. Animals like cows and chimps are primarily herbivores-PRIMARILY. They still eat insects and for the sake of arguement some meat. Granted the studies also say that after masticating the meat they tend to discard it after extracting juices, but the facts are the facts. I agree with raw veganism. I'm just saying that the above stated arguement doesn't hold much water for me. I personally rely on species-specific studies, of which there are many. You can absolutely get enough protein. If I were meeting opposition I'd want to have the most convincing info I could, and IMO that's not it. That's all. I don't want an arguement that can have holes poked in it easily. You aren't going to win with your nurse or psychologist or whatever citing studies based on other animals when they aren't raw vegans. For me the best defense is the most relevant one.

[Evelynn]

Not many what? SADers?

Right. ^___^

I don't personally use that argument. I usually just nod and act like I'm seeing the error of my ways when I'm dealing with the nurses, but when I DO have to defend myself against friends, I tell them that people who do it right are fine, and I'm trying hard to listen to my body. I don't push it, because no one will win. Maybe someday they'll just come out and tell everybody the truth. Unlikely, but it's a nice thought.

[stRAWberry fields forever]

Firefaery,

I appreciate the logic you offer about not relying on using the habits of other species to justify our diets. You make reference to species-specific studies, (along with your own personal successes) as the basis for your case that raw veganism does not lead to protein deficiency. If you get a chance, could you elaborate on your argument, like how you know you personally are getting enough protein, or with links to / more info on the specific studies you are speaking of? I want to have as much knowledge about this subject as I can get to help stave off any protein police I cross paths with in the future.

[Evelynn]

Oooh, that would be nice. It would be great to have something really solid to stand on--I try to avoid arguments like the plague, but sometimes I just get sucked into them and I can never cite my sources.
And how do you know when you're NOT getting enough? I asked this earlier, but is it as simple as craving something?

[jorjeni]

My answer to Where do you get your protein? is:

-- the same place those big strong gorillas get theirs.

OR

-- the same place those cows (or steer) get theirs.

It quiets them right away, gets them thinking, and usually puts an interesting puzzled expression on their faces.

Raw food diet = raw fruits, veggies (majorly green leafies), seeds, and nuts = enough protein.

Be careful not to keep the cooked food/medical/nutritional/scientific/government RDA mindset when switched to raw and living foods. The body doesn't react the same.

Yes I have to remember that also. It was listening to one of my friends trying to tell me I am eating to many nuts that got me to taking them out of my diet even thought I knew I was eating RAW nuts but I sometimes forget RAW is not the same as cooked or roasted. I am now back to my senses . The thing I am trying to remember is all the research that has been done is for COOKED FOOD not raw. So if you are eating Cooked than yes you will need 30% or more but if you are eating RAW then you will need only 1/4 or less than that. Remember that ROSEANN show when they had DJ and a shrink and all he could say was "They say she's the same but she's not the same" over and over and over again about the changing Becky's LOL!!! anyway I keep thinking about that. "They think cooked protein is the same as Raw protein but there not the same" LOL!!! Stupid I know but I am doing it with everything Nuts, sweets everything.

[firefaery]

Absolutely! I'm running out now (already late-as usual) so I'll post this afternoon when I get back.

[stRAWberry fields forever]

Bump bump bump

[RawTruth]

Hey Folks!!

I was just sharing what I say -- and a bunch of my raw friends use it, too. Heck, Juliano used it when Path301's friend asked HIM (Juliano) the protein question (!!!!) a couple of days ago when good ole' Path was out here visiting.

It's light, it's funny, it's hopefuly thought-provoking, and it's not the only answer I ever give; it's just one in my repertoire.

It was commenting on the original post.

Don't use it if you don't want to ... or if you don't believe it's relevant.

It SURE wasn't intended to compare our stomachs to a cow's ... nor to say that we can reasonably mimic a gorilla's diet; it was illustrative of one of the main and most effective places raw vegans can get usable protein.

I wasn't trying to open up a discussion about it.