How does a body die of old age?

I was talking about raw food and all of its wonders to my mother who is considering going raw after chemotherapy (yes yes, she should have done it BEFORE, I know). She is feeling very hopeless, and told me that it can't be as miraculous as they say beause: "Eventually gorillas have to get sick from something and die". I attempted to argue this, but had no good argument. So now I am hoping that someone here does.

What do animals die of if not disease or a wound? What really happens when an organism dies of old- age?

Ther must be an answer, I just don't know it!

Any takers?

Sungodess, this is from a discussion between me and Ross at energiseforlife.com, at least this is the beginning of an asnwer
LL


Pleomorphism is basically the concept that cells, and especially one-celled microorganisms, can change form under certain conditions to cells of another type.

For example an example of pleomorphism in human cells might be the morphing of skin cells to connective tissue cells, or of blood cells to bone tissue. In the field of microbiology, the concept primarily implies that bacteria of one species might change to bactera of another species under certain conditions. For example, this theory might allow that under certain environmental conditions, a typhoid bacillus could morph into a staphylococcus bacteria.

In the alternative healing world, and on the fringes of conventional mainstream science, there are those who feel that pleomorphism of mircoorganisms is widespread, and that such pleomorphism is how nature performs various tasks of toxin cleanup and tissue removal in the human body. In effect, this theory states that bacteria simply change to whatever form is most handily needed in the body, based upon cues from the body itself.

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As a background to this - it is based on the theory of pleomorphism:

Quote:
Pleomorphism is basically the concept that cells, and especially one-celled microorganisms, can change form under certain conditions to cells of another type.

For example an example of pleomorphism in human cells might be the morphing of skin cells to connective tissue cells, or of blood cells to bone tissue. In the field of microbiology, the concept primarily implies that bacteria of one species might change to bactera of another species under certain conditions. For example, this theory might allow that under certain environmental conditions, a typhoid bacillus could morph into a staphylococcus bacteria.

In the alternative healing world, and on the fringes of conventional mainstream science, there are those who feel that pleomorphism of mircoorganisms is widespread, and that such pleomorphism is how nature performs various tasks of toxin cleanup and tissue removal in the human body. In effect, this theory states that bacteria simply change to whatever form is most handily needed in the body, based upon cues from the body itself.

Indeed, in the many parallel theories of biological terrain assessment and adjustment, the underlying assumption is that "infection" by microorganism really indicates nothing more than imbalances in the inner biochemical terrain of the body, and that if the inner terrain of the body is allowed to normalize, then the "infectious organisms" will cese their inflammatory activity, as their presence is no longer needed, as determined by the interior milieu.

In these models, bacteria and other microogranism are not seen as dangerous, invasive or pathogenic, nor infectious, but rather as simply responding to cues from the body that cleanup is needed.

In other words, they are seen as performing simply necessary cleanup functions in response to cues from the local body tissues. So, in these models, bacteria are not seen as pathogenic or aggressive, but rather, inner biological terrain, the interior mileiu of the body, is seen as the chief determinant of the presence or absence of certain "infectious" processes.

Therefore, in these particular pleomorphic models, the interior milieu, or inner terrain, is seen as having primacy in determining presence or absence of "diseases" due to microorganisms. Thus, it would make sense that one would treat an infectious illness by simply adjusting the inner terrain of the body to allow it to become more healthful, thus eliminating the need for the presence of the "infectious" organisms.

Conversely, any attempt to treat an infectious illness with antibiotics (or hydrogen peroxide, ozone or colloidal silver, all of which are favorite armamentaria in the alternative healing world) or other "aggressive" means would be seen in most cases as short-sighted and merely cosmetic, as the practitioner would be attempting to treat a symptom of a deep imbalance, rather than addressing the deep imbalance. Further, these theories would suggest that most, if not all, antibiotics and other aggressive antimicrobial means would actually further imbalance and disrupt the inner terrain, thus eventually leading to further degeneration.

A number of theorists and practitioners in the raw foods world, among many other fields of natural healing as well, seem to also subscribe to theories which dictate the primacy of biological terrain. Thus, in treating illnesses which seem to be of microbiological origin, they would favor simply correcting the inner terrain via dietary modification and other simple means. Many people in the raw foods world, for example, believe that the primary reason for the many health benefits derived from a raw foods diet is simply improvement in inner biological terrain. This improvement in inner terrain is seen as due to the fact that the person has ceased intake of toxic foods and rather increased intake of truly healthful and nurturing foods, thus allowing the body to naturally improve its inner terrain



Source: http://www.rawpaleodiet.org/pleomorphism-1.html
_________________
email me with any questions
ross@energiseforlife.com

And also this: verymost interesting:



from Dr Young:

Current scientific evidence presented by Dr. Young shows something different. Microbes live in our bodies all the time, and change form into bacteria, viruses, yeast, or mold as the internal environment changes. In healthy bodies these microbes are inert, or have positive roles in cell and gene repair. But when our body tissues become overly acidic, these microbes come alive and take on a different purpose in the body, a role which is perfectly logical if you think about it: they are there to decompose dead tissue and recycle it back into the soil of the earth. That is what Dr. Young means by only one disease. When our tissues become overly acidic, this is the condition that all organisms go into just before death, so the microbes inside get the signal that we are dying and go into action to decompose us. The symptoms would begin at the weakest link in our bodies, so it might start with any of the diseases humans get. But in reality there is only the one disease: over acidification that tells the microbes we are ready to die and decompose.

So how do perfectly healthy animals or humans every die?

Light,

Wooohoo!! Nice to see someone else that gets pleomorphism! :)

Sun, I agree that the pleomorphic model nicely says why ALL things die. BAsically we ferment to death lol.

The bible actually says it quite nice, "ashes to ashes and dust to dust" we return to the earth. (as protits presumably)

Basically the bodies cells where out and decay, and then are fermented and we quick making more, and hence death. An interesting study of a chicken heart kept alive for 28 years seems to show that cells could have infinite life if not for SOMETHING else.

One possible theory is that telemorase (sp?) (it caps off our dna strands) can only allow so many dna replications before thats it. Once this happens death is inevetable as the body fails to renew itself. Some interesting theories about how to remedy this abound but as of yet none have floated in from the realms of meta physical science to reality. But maybe one day lol.

Jeff

Sungoddess anything can wear out. Even rocks can be worn away over time. There is a difference between dis-ease, which ranges from uncomfrotable to downright painful and is always caused by a toxic condition, and wearing out. In the latter case it is usually the heart that just stops. Here is an example of living without built up toxins and simply wearing out. Rawguru.com has this to say about Dr Walker:

“Dr. Norman Walker is the longest-lived, widely-known raw-foodist of the modern era. Thousands upon thousands of people credit Dr. Walker's live-vegetable-juice therapy for healing them of "incurable" diseases, including Jay Kordich, known to the world as "The Juiceman." When Jay Kordich had cancer, he met and was tremendously inspired by Dr. Walker. After healing himself of cancer through The Raw-Food Diet and juice therapy, Jay worked with Dr. Walker beginning in the 1940s up until Dr. Walker's death in 1984 at the age of 118. Dr. Walker passed away peacefully while taking an afternoon nap; free of any disease or other ailments common to people of advanced age.”

Hope this helps,
Teri S

Doe,

Dont forget Jack Lalaine!! lol ;)
(I love his leisure suit thing he wears lol)

He is a spry old geezer from all his green juice as well. I dont reccomend HIS juicer as the green start is so much better, but clearly the high mineral contents in raw juices is a superb addition for health!

Jeff

Sungoddess,
My understanding of natural death is that it occurs when the weakest vital area in a person's body wears out or stops functioning. In modern civilization, we are all born with different relative weaknesses in our bodies, dictated by what is called our 'personal diathesis' or make-up. This is probably owing to our 12,000 year history of eating the wrong foods, among other unhealthful practices spawned by civilization. This doesn't determine whether or not we will be diseased, as is commonly supposed, but if the causes of disease are present it will determine in what area of the body it will occur. And, at the natural end of a person's life, it will determine how death will happen. For humans who ate and lived in accordance with nature and whose predecessors did as well, there would be less variance and in that case death would always just be a matter of the heart quietly stopping. This is probably the way it happens with wild animals. The main difference between death as we experience it in civilization and natural death is that the latter is very quick, with suffering either being completely absent or brief, and certainly not preceded by the long period of infirmity that we have come to expect. From what I've heard and read, tribal long-lived people generally work and play as usual right up to the day before their deaths.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

My beliefs on aging and dying are built around the science of vibration.
It's a scientific FACT that atoms and molecules vibrate at a certain rate.
When you get down to the basic scientific elements, discounting the spirit/soul, the only difference between a live body and a dead one is the rate of vibration that holds the body in its particular shape.

As we age, our molecules/atoms slow in their vibration, along with our metabolism and bodily functions. As they slow down, we don't hold our shape as well... If we exercise and eat right, we can stay flexible and strong up until the point where we begin to die. But like all things, life is a cycle. There is an incline, a middle, a decline, then an end. Nothing escapes. This is why the Circle is such a sacred symbol in so many cultures/religions. It's profound.

When the molecules/atoms slow down enough, the body can no longer hold its shape and it no longer can be a vessel for the consciousness/spirit/soul (depending on your belief system).

One way to see this concept is in a tornado... the wind is moving very fast and holds a particular shape. Once the wind slows down, the elements that make up the tornado (earth, water, and things it picks up like houses and cars) fall to earth and the tornado no longer holds that funnel shape.

Another example is a fan. The fan blade appears to be a solid object when it is turned on and moving. And in fact, it wll hurt your finger if you try to put it into the blade. But when it STOPS moving, you can see plenty of space between each blade. We have the same type of space between our molecules/atoms.

At death, the human consciousness/spirit/soul leaves the body. Where it goes and if it continues to exist can only be theorized, but I believe it does continue on. Some people believe it goes to heaven, some believe it returns to another body as in reincarnation. Most believe it returns to the "source"... whatever that means to them. Some believe that is just it.. the end.

The elements of the body, if left naturally, decompose back into their original state and we become mulch. Unfortunately, we're so afraid of death, we've decided to fill dead bodies with chemicals so they don't decompose naturally, and now we poison the earth and water supply with our dead chemical=filled bodies instead of feeding it, as it should be in a biologically sound system. We know that these chemicals are dangerous, so instead of discontinuing that dangerous practice, we make laws that say you must put the casket in a concrete box, so the chemicals don't get out. It just gets crazier and crazier.

If we weren't so afraid, we'd legislate to give up this horribly harmful practice of embalming bodies. Wow, an entire industry could be laid to rest! Think of it.. you wouldn't have to pay thousands of dollars for expensive caskets and embalming services. How silly we are to be so brainwashed!

If we really DO believe what we say we do, whatever our religion is, then WHY are we so afraid of dying? Ift is only a change of residence, like going on a trip, then there's nothing to fear, right? If it is "the end" then again there is nothing to fear.

I once saw a cute cartoon of two twin fetuses in the womb. One was saying, "I can't WAIT to be born! What an adventure!"

The other was saying "Ohhhh.. I'm so scared! I don't WANT to be born! I like it HERE! It's warm and cozy and I can hear mom's heart beating. I don't know what's OUT there! Can't I just stay here?"

So true, huh?
For me.. death really is just a different type of birth... I don't know what's "out there" but it's sure to be an adventure of some type. But I'm more like the second twin... I still like it here.. where I'm familiar with the surroundings and fairly comfortable. . . :::laughing:::

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Originally Posted by RowanC

My beliefs on aging and dying are built around the science of vibration.

Another example is a fan. The fan blade appears to be a solid object when it is turned on and moving. And in fact, it wll hurt your finger if you try to put it into the blade. But when it STOPS moving, you can see plenty of space between each blade. We have the same type of space between our molecules/atoms.

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* thanks, wonderful metaphor :)

LL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rawnora

The main difference between death as we experience it in civilization and natural death is that the latter is very quick, with suffering either being completely absent or brief, and certainly not preceded by the long period of infirmity that we have come to expect. From what I've heard and read, tribal long-lived people generally work and play as usual right up to the day before their deaths.
www.RawSchool.com

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Nora, this is so important for people to think about. As a CNA on the Oncology Ward, I saw a LOT of people die. Some had "good" deaths.. some had horrible deaths, kept alive by machines and drugs and made to suffer when there was absolutely no hope of survival.

The best deaths I saw were when I worked at a hospice facility where people were basically waiting to die. They received lots of support but no life-extending drugs, no tubes, no force feeding. If they wanted a banana milkshake at 3 in the morning, they got it. I took more than one person out for their medical marijuana smoke and took one patient outside, bed and all, to dance in the rain... something he wanted to do before he died. I rolled that bed all over the place.. we both got soaked. We both laughed like kids, and the next day he died peacefully, satisfied to have gotten his last wish.

The only thing we know for certain about death is that we are ALL going to die. Now is the time to think about how you want that transition to be... gentle, natural, with your loved ones by your side? Or prolonged with unneeded suffering forced on you by a medical industry that is sometimes guided by financial greed? NOW is the time to get a download and sign Advanced Directives and make sure people in your family have a copy and make sure they KNOW what you want! No adult age is too young to do this.

Ack...this is a sore spot with me. I quit one job because they were insisting that I FORCE a 90 year old woman to eat when she just wanted to stop eating and die peacefully. Made me so angry, I quit!

Natural death is generally not painful.
The person stops eating, stops drinking, sleeps more and more, and eventually everything just stops. It's a wonder to see...and makes me less fearful.

Today scientists do not know just why humans grow old and die. The Bible, however, explains that we die because we are born sinful, having inherited this condition from our first human parents, but we have been promised that death will soon be no more.

the best book I have come across is "How We Die" by Dr Sherwin Nuland. He is a top notch professor of surgery at Yale University. He also wrote a VERY interesting book called "The Wisdom of the Body". Highly recommended, and you will get a very true explanation, no BS or ill-informed explanations.

Hi RowanC

And we do put our whole hand in to the blade of the fan, isn't that our problem? :(

LL

Well, I could go on a fancy scientific discussion of telomeres to damaged DNA sequences to faulty cell reproduction, or some such nonsense.

But the simple truth is that the body ages because it isn't working properly. That's why some people look 20 years younger than they really are. It's because they are 20 years younger, if you judge age by physiological stability, rather than years.

We each amble through life with our own idea of what life is. At start, we are unconcerned with life and death. We just want to have fun. We are called children.

Then, we learn about how we are supposed to live and, God forbid, how we are supposed to die. We get into a routine, and each day passes one after another, bringing us ever closer to our death. But it's not the time that kills us. It's the routine. With each passing day, we hold our hates, our joys, and our fears. We carry them with us. And we get lost in the experience of our own humanity. We forget about eternity. Some of us even forget about God. We become confused. Our minds become divided, and the body loses its ability to function.

An interesting study was done on mice. Sceintists took old mice who were losing their ability to manipulate objects with their front paws. The control group were left alone. But the experimental group were trained to play with their food. The experimental group lived 30% longer.

Let me repeat. The mice lived 30% longer. No genetic tampering. No dietary intervention. No pills or injections. Just a simple retraining of basic skills that the mice had lost due to aging.

Age is, at least in part, a mental process. If you are losing your skill, if you are losing your desire to live, then you are aging. Not from a physical cause, but from a mental one. You are telling your body that you no longer desire to live another day. Your body is responding.

Live your life the way you want to. Because if you won't live it for your own pleasure, then you won't live it at all.