View Full Version : question for alissa about muscle...working out..ect! plz help!
12-20-2004, 01:12 AM
i was wondering if you could give me any advice on what i could do with this situation i have...
i work out at the gym alot.. cardio everyday... not everyday intense tho...i also do weights...3 times a week atleast...i found the less i do weights... the more results i get... BUT my problem is biulding muscles
how do you build muscles while staying lean being raw??
hemp protien makes me gain lots of fat... gained about 15 pounds in 2 months... just from taking hemp alone.. and i didnt gain any muscle... :(
nuts also make me gain fat weight like crazy as well... even if i only consumed a few a week.. it makes such a huge difference in my body... my dad has always has this with nuts to.
any types of oils also make me gain alot of weight.
the only thing that keeps me lean is eating strickly only vegies, greens and fruit....but when i do that... i lose all of my muscle mass... no matter how hard i work on them at the gym... everything disapears....no matter how much greens i eat...ect.
so whats a girl like me to do?? nuts/hemp/seeds all make me gain fat .. no muscle.... and vegies and fruit and greens keep me nice and thin, but no muscle gains... which is rather disapointing after how hard i work to have them!
the only thing that keeps me super lean with nice muscle mass is isolate whey protien...which obviously isnt raw! id never try soy...as i wont touch any soy products... and im sure you wouldnt advice this anyways... since soy products arent even raw :p
anyways... any info about this would be soooo greatly appriciated!! thanks in advance... i cant wait to hear a response from you!!!
12-20-2004, 11:17 AM
I realized after I wrote this that you directed the question to Alissa. I just thought I would throw in my 2 cents :rolleyes:
It seems like your body reacts quickly to changes that you make. When you include higher fat foods (like oils or nuts) you gain quickly and when you include leaner foods like fruit you lose quickly.
It could be that you need to lose first in order to build back up on the lean foods. Perhaps you should eat more veggies and fruit and continue to work out with weights consistently. You will lose at first but then over the course of months, re-build a more solid frame with more lean muscle mass. The key would be 2 fold......keep training consistently and be very patient, giving your body the time it needs to rebuild on the good nutrition you are feeding it.
The patience part may be difficult for you since you are used to changes that happen quickly, but it seems that in the raw life....patience is definitely a virtue :) .
Peace and much success on your journey to a terrific body!
12-20-2004, 12:11 PM
Hi Pink Berry,
I thought I offer some on my own personal experiences--alot of your descriptions aout how you respond to certain exercises and foods sound a bit like me.
I am a classic endomorph body type (apple). I tend to gain weight easy if go off my "diet" even at one meal I tend to gain the weight in the stomach, shoulders and butt. That one meal can be one bad food and the scale will show for it the next day.
When you say that you gained 15 pounds after 2 months--Was this a result of adding oil to the same diet of veggies,fruits? Your right it sounds like you did not add lean muscle more like lost what they often say is lean muscle, water etc?
Considering your age and the body's exposure to "lean muscle weightloss," perhaps (this is only my opinion not a professional one) your body is resisting the weightloss when adding fats because the body does need fat (quality)to function properly. It's no surprise that you will lose weight eating the way you did--alomst a starvation mode for it. However, anything that your body hasn't had,that it needs, tends to react in strange ways--it was deprived.
Now going back to nuts, were you eating salty nuys the standard kind from the cans? Were you born overweight (I was as a child)? Are you a "yo-yo dieter? Were you ever a fan of diet sodas or what i call trendy diet fat burners?
I've been told by certified trainers in the past that the quality of your workouts make a big difference and ow often you are eating? Recovery period -days off is when your body is actually doing the "creating lean muscle" tissue. That was hard for me to accept b/c I like to feel like i've "fought a battle" to believe that I had a good workout--pain, sweat and worn.
Quality oils that respond well for me have been organic coconut oil, flaxseed, olive oil, and natural oils coming from raw unsalted nuts.
When I made my transition to allow my body to have the foods it needed and oils, I started by drinking more water. A kind of cleansing and rehydtrating the cells.
I propbably didn't answer alot of your questions since I am not a professional in this field but I hope my experieces can help you address some other details.
good to have you,
12-20-2004, 12:28 PM
hi!.. thanks for responding :)
well im 19... ive never ever had a problem with my weight... i was always a "skinny" girl lol.. never ever had any type of fat extra on me! im 5'2... and ALWAYS weighed 100 pounds....no matter what i ever ate... now that i think about it tho.. i never really ever ate to much fat.. which makes sence on why maybe i gain alot when i eat it! ive never ever been drawn to fatty foods....and now with raw.. its basically the only thing that would fill me up... but i stay away from it anyways
i eat every 2 hours.. smaller meals.. so about 6 smaller meals a day...this works best for me to lose weight... any other way.. i gain it.. and ijust get all cranky cuz i get hungry really fast!
i gain weight super easy... but i lose is super slow! so its gonna take me most likely 5 or 6 months or so just to lose 10 to 15 pounds! which i need to... right now im at 110...and dont feel healthy at all... i have a super super small frame...in the summer i was 95 and still had extra fat on me....but i felt good.. compared to now!
anyways.. i gained the 15 pounds cuz i went off my whey protien powder and started taking hemp cuz i wanted to be all raw! :)... but the hemp made me gain soo much fat... this happens when my dad takes it to!! i seem to take after my dad alot.. when it comes to the body and such...but not in everyway...
any type of oils.. no matter how organic.. no matter how their made... i gain fat weight ( same as my dad ).... ive never ever been crazy about salty nuts.... i always eat raw nuts from my health food store...weve even ordered them off a raw site from the internet!....but no matter how few i eat... even just 2 a week... make a difference ( same as my dad! )
lots of fruit also makes me keep on the body fat... BUT... a little bit of body fat is okay....like in the summer.. it didnt bother me... but right now.. WAY to much body fat!! :(
even when i was 95 tho....the only thing that keeps me basically lean is eating lean chicken at night with some greens..and a protien shake after my work outs.....
other then that... nothing works... no matter how many greens i eat...cuz besides greens i dont have to much options.. being raw anyways...to give me lean muscle...
so i cant tolerate any form of oils...no nuts or seeds ( even tho i occasianlyl include them.. just for the added nutrients...but very rarely )...
all im left with is fruits and vegies and greens...and those dont fill me up... nor do they biuld any muscle... they just keep me looking like ive got an eating disorder... which is not the look im looking for! lol
any more advice would be sooo greatly apprciated.. and thanks in advance for even taking the time to read my long long post :o
12-20-2004, 12:35 PM
Hmm a little confused here how can fruit make you keep on body fat? Fruit has no fat in it and if one ate nothing but fruit they would lose weight. :)
12-20-2004, 12:59 PM
I think what she was referring to was the weight gain tends to sneak in with eating too much fruit.
The reaction to nuts sound like an allergy in a sense. The "fats" may be something that is new to the body since you have not eaten much fat in your life which is not too long ago b/c you're now 19 (if I remember).
This is a suggestion but there may be a kind of negotiating that you might need to consider. Even though you don't react well to fats, you may need to allow the body to change, adapt and "learn" how to utilize it. There may be some hormonal issue involved as well here.
given that you are 19 yrs old, the hard part may be accepting the fact that your body is going to add a few pounds between now and 25 yo ( a guestimate) not be fat but changing. Wanting to be raw and allow your body thenutrients it needs to funcion properly, have nice hair and nails and be internally clean, is a part of letting go of your prior habits. It's probpably not going to be uncommon to experence weight gain at first and start topping off. These chagnes are mandatory for the body--there is no other way unless you decide to stay with the same habits.
Speaking of eating disorders, I am a survivor and all my years of anorexia "no fats" (mine was intentional though ) and restricting, had done some serious thyroid and metabolic insults. So even thought you don't have an eating disorder per say, not having fats while growing up can have an affect/effect. I am still reparing my 17 years of "tormenting" my body.
My twin sister can eat quite a bit and I'm a at least 10 lbs more than her. So you may feel "fatter" adding fats but repairing the mechanics now would leave you more fat efficient.
I have a friend that is naturally underwieght and never dieted and she weighed 92 lbs @ 5' 3/4 until the age of 21 years old. She ate like anybody else and had no surfacing health problems. A year later she finally started adding on "adult-mature" weight and it seemed strange on here at first but it takes the body time to adapt. She is now 29 yo like meand is still slim @ 102lbs but then again that is different if she was a falbby 102 vs lean muscle 102 it would look different. I dont' want numbers to be an issue because it depends.
so bear in mind that you may not like how you look @ 110lbs because you dont' have much lean muscle right now but if you allow your body to make the changes of adapting fats and such to properly convert fat to lean muscle, then I dont think you would be freaking out about 110lbs. It sounds like you want to maintain the same "weight" (you were not lean muscle) @ this tender age of 19 which is different from being 110 lbs and gaining lean muscle which the number may not matter at all? Muscle weight 3 times more than fat so there is a mental aspect that you will have to consider when dealing with weight, numbers and dietary change.
Alissa would be more beneficial in you fats and nuts question.
suns coming out today,
12-20-2004, 11:59 PM
thanks for replying!!!
well i guess i shouldnt have started out by saying... " ive never grown up eating fats "... totally not true... what i ment was.. ive never really been drawn to super fatty foods! back in highschool i always ate lots of junk food.. never ever watched what i ate!.. but when i just think about the stuff i was drawn to.. it was never to " fatty "... chips with dip lots of bread with cream cheese...i ate lots and lots of pasta.. that was like the main thing i lived on!.. haha... also lots of ice cream.. LOVED ice cream...anyways.. now when im listing the foods i used to eat lol...that all does have lots of fat in it.. just never appeared to me that way!
anyways... like i mentioned... my dad also gains weight from nuts and oils... also dairy!
my only problem is... i cant seem to get a body im happy with being " all raw "
i can have a body im super happy with when i dont eat all raw and incorperate lean meats and such! i also have bad digestion when im all raw.. which is weird.. since digestion should improve... :S anyways.. thats not the topic of what im trying to get at hehe!
either when i eat all raw... i just get this frail appearance...really skinny.. with no muscle ... cuz non will biuld with greens and vegies and fruit alone....
i cant incorperate nuts oils and seeds.. cuz that just brings on fat weight gain....and also.. no muscle mass!
i have a super tiny bone frame... my doctor said my ideal weight for my frame would most likely be around 85 to 90 pounds... 110 to 112 is way to much body fat for my tiny little frame!!.. my mom is the same way ( but right now shes got way to much fat on her.. but shes promised to lose some when this new year comes YAY! )
now i just want to make this clear... i have no eating disorder whats so ever!... im not scared of fats or anything... i just cant be eating things with lots of fat regularly to gain muscle.. cuz my body converts these types of fat ( nuts/seeds and oils ) into body fat... :( which is weird... since when i eat animal fat i lose weight and gain muscle...same with dairy.. even tho i havent had that in almost 3 years! and not looking to include it into my diet.. since i wanna remain as high raw as possible!
in the summer i felt GREAT at 95 pounds....but gained the 15 pounds from the hemp protien i was taking as a replacement for my whey..... my dad started taking it around the same time as me ( hes been raw for almost a year now as well except hes always had a meal including meat at night for dinner ) and also recently told me later on he gained about 10 pounds , but didnt wanna tell me to scare me so id stop taking the protien lol cuz i thought it was gonna help me gain muscle.. not body fat!
no im only looking towards what i can do... what could i eat thats raw... to give me lean muscle mass without body fat!?
again.......i appricate all the help anyone can throw out at me!!! thanks in advance * HUGS!!*
12-21-2004, 08:08 AM
Not trying to be funny misslinda and I don't agree with this, ever seen a fat gorilla?
I think what she was referring to was the weight gain tends to sneak in with eating too much fruit.
12-21-2004, 09:19 AM
Hey Pnik Berry,
first I should clarify with Curtis......Curtis I wasn't stating that "fruit" makes one fat but according what PnkBerry said, I understand her when saying if hse eats too much fruit the wieght doesn't come off. I've been there and for some cosmic reason, fruit does that to us--pre raw diet. I still expereince this at time to time unless I balance it out with veggies. maybe it's a female thing ;p
Pink berry I'm so sorry I hope you didn't feeli like I was implying you had an ED--Oh no no I was just making reference for that particular response. I do believe you.
There are others that I have read about here, respond so called "negatively" to raw. My sister gets diarrhea fro a glass of clerey and beet juice. The intent here is to "clean" our bodies. Get rid of what is not natural. Here is my amateur opinion--I am not a professional but based on different things I have read.
Think about how may days you are touching chemicals......the clothes you wear, car fumes, makeup, shampoo, water chemicals, the air we breathe, preservatives and chemicals in regular food-the list can go on. did you know that some flavorings of ice cream have the same chemical as rubber cement glue (but of course in smaller amounts)? With that said in mind, your consumption or merely your skin, abosrbs these unnatural things. It's like a "defense" wall that has built in your body--=the optimal function like breaking down fats, nice hair,skin and nails, good bowel movemets and memory (just a few to list) is slowing down b/c of all that synthetic stiff. When something good comes along, the body "wants it" but has to do all sorts of things to get it. The body has the ability to recognize what is truly good for it and cleanses itself. It wouldn't be unusual to lose weight when being raw--the body's most important agenda, is purifying,cleaning what is not pure for it. That is why we urinate and have BM's.
I am not a doctor so don't think that I am telling you what to do--I am not one to tell you what is even wrong but merely offer you some opinions to get the ball rolling. It may be a good idea to send email directly to Alissa.
Wish I could help more but this truly is facinating--your whole family.
Dont' worry we will all helpyou out.
Early bird today,
12-29-2004, 12:37 AM
is there anyone else out there who could offer me a bit of help!?? im desperate :(
12-29-2004, 07:51 AM
Ok, ive been putting off writing because there is so much to say here and i havent had the time so ive been waiting until i did, which is not happening. Sorry to ignore this thread. You got great advise from everyone here. Here is what i see happening with you, its what Todd said:
"It could be that you need to lose first in order to build back up on the lean foods. Perhaps you should eat more veggies and fruit and continue to work out with weights consistently. You will lose at first but then over the course of months, re-build a more solid frame with more lean muscle mass. The key would be 2 fold......keep training consistently and be very patient, giving your body the time it needs to rebuild on the good nutrition you are feeding it."
You had not been 100 raw so you never went through shedding your false body. You cannot build up again if you dont have the 'clean' structure to build upon. You FIRST need to clean out and THEN build. It CONNOT happen at the same time.
Sometimes we want what we want. But you cannot go against nature.
I just read your threads again. Im confused, how long did you go off whey and on hemp for? Were you 100% raw during this time? 100% with NOTHING added?
I need to see exactly what you are and were eating. If you can list that out, i can take a brief look, i would really need to talk to you more though because sometimes people think they are doing one thing and they are not. Im not saying you are lying ;) i just know that our minds can justify anything!
There is something going on that your not seeing here and its impossible to give you advise if i dont 'see' what your doing.
But back to it...
What i wanted to say to you is this. You are expecting to be lean and lose the weight AND build muscle. It DOESNT work that way. Not on raw food. You cannot compare raw eating to the medical modal of the S.A.D diet.
Your body will start to shed and detox OR it will build. At least at first until you shed the old junk it doesnt need.
If you look at my pictures you can see that im really ripped in some of them. I had to almost starve myself to get like that. I have a totally different frame then you. I can look at a weight and get 'big'. I also have a really hard time being lean. I almost competed when i was younger because i just naturally had the physique. I even look bulky in clothes if i gain 5 pounds. You on the other hand are a naturally skinny girl as you say. So you need to work with what you have. I know, sometimes its not what we want, but...
Fruit will not make you fat. Fruit will make you 'flat' though if you are on a regular S.A.D diet trying to get lean. There are a lot of different rules, i know, it can be confusing.
I do think you need to have patience and go in stages as Todd said. Your expecting both and it wont happen, at least not for you with your frame.
Its not that you cant build muscle while losing but for you its not going to be that simple as it seems you have a naturally Ectomorph type.
You can gain the 10 pounds and turn that into muscle but it will take a while to do that. You can lose the weight first and then work VERY hard to build muscle but that will take a long time.
The raw food diet will bring you back to your natural physique and will create a healthy body for you. Building muscle on someone with your frame and type of body is not a NATURAL thing. Youre trying to go against nature. Do you know what i mean? I know thats not what you want to hear. But when people work with me and tell me that need to be big and strong and have muscles and they dont want to lose the muscle mass under any circumstances i tell them not to go raw because you will lose that false weight and false body mass. The raw food diet will bring you back to what is natural and healthy for you.
I know you say you dont want to look anorexic and im glad you want a healthy body image of a strong and healthy fit person, but that takes a long time to accomplish on raw for someone in your frame. You can do it but just know that it wont happen overnight for you.
I dont want to turn you off to all raw, you just have to know that some people are blessed or cursed, however you look at it, with having a tiny frame that loses weight and gets skinny easily on raw. And to try to force it to grow muscles is not natural...also, no FOODS with produce muscle.
Im just confused a bit since you say you get anorexic looking but then say you lose weight slowly?
I really would need to talk more about this with you and see your daily diet but this is the jest of whats going on for you i believe.
Does that help at all?
12-29-2004, 06:32 PM
I hope it helped her because I just learned a lot reading this, thanks Alissa!
12-30-2004, 12:58 AM
wow... first i have to say thanks for putting in so much time to reply to me !! :) * hugs* i know how hectic life can be at times and then to come here and take the time to reply to me...thank yoU!!
yes.. it did help alot... it acually opened up my eyes alot... and you know what... im kinda confused with my own body now! lol
its so hard to even explain. i'll try tho.. so here goes!
im a small person 5'2.... i have super tiny little bones...and even when i go down to 95 pounds or a little less.. i still dont look skinny... i have excess body fat!.......well i shouldnt say body fat.... i just dont look sickly skinny.. if that makes sense! lol
in the summer... i was 100% raw... besides the whey protien i was taking. i got pretty lean... i was 95 pounds...didnt look sickly tho... had nice muscle definition...and had no extra body fat... nice and lean... but when i leave it out... even if i still stay at 95 pounds.. i gain this excess body fat... that just hangs around..everywhere..even under my chin! its sick! like... i dont look lean anymore.. i look like a skinny girl on the ouside, but underneath my clothes i have jiggly fat everywhere...haha...ive seen that lots on other poeple to.. they appear real skinny, but underneth the clothes.. thats where it really shows what they eat lol so basically i start to look like someone whos naturally skinny but eats junk all day and never works out! not a pretty sight.
but because i didnt wanna take the whey anymore.. i decided to get some extra protien from the hemp... since i had already been eating alot of greens and vegies... also lots of fruit! ... i took it for about....3 months... and in the time i didnt once step on the scale... but i could see in the mirror i was gaining..... i just ignored it tho... till one night i wanted to go out to a club with my friends.. put on my jeans.. and well.. they didnt fit lol....i had gained 15 pounds in 3 short months... with out any other added fat in my diet!!!... and it wasnt muscle fat either.. this is acual body fat im talking about! i had a huge roll over my pants ....and thats a huge disapointment to a 19 year old who used to be super lean and healthy looking in her jeans lol
in those 3 months ...maybe almost 4... i got such intense cravings for food to.. like it was all i could think about... it was insane.. i felt soo unbalanced....at the slightest hint of hunger i needed to eat and if i didnt it felt like i was gonna die lol!... what a horrible experience.. and it wasnt even cravings for raw food.. it was cravings for everything...and i always felt like i needed to eat... like i could shove enourmous amounts of food in my mouth and never have enough, even tho i was soo full!... my mom got pretty worried about me..and even i got worried.. cuz having an obsession with food... basically haveing like binge attacks.. was something i had never experienced in my life!
so since then.. ive gone back to my whey...and the funny thing is.. the first day i had it again.. its like this little voice in my head went off that said... wow.. i needed you!...it was the weirdest experience ive ever had....
i went to a nutritional advisor ( natural doctor ).. and he said it was because my entire amino acids were unbalanced... and thats why i was having those reactions to food.. cuz my body was searching for those amino acids so thats why id keep wanting to eat and eat and eat.. even when i was full!...
since taking my whey again... im back to my old self... enjoying my food .. my RAW food lol ... and not stressing!
now my whey is the most natural and purest on the market right now i think. it only contains isolate whey protien ( from certified hormone free grass fed cows )... ezymes and stevia to sweeten!
anyways.. my problem is...
that i gain weight from eating any kind of nut or seed. even if i eat one of two... once a week... ill gain body fat!... my dad has this problem to so i must get it from him.... which explains the bad reaction to the hemp protien since it comes from the seed lol so i cant have any of those for added protien... IF i wanna keep my figure...which i do.. cuz i feel my best when im at a lower weight. i feel light..energetic.. i can run fast and long.. my back doesnt hurt...which right now at 110 is does :(
BUT... when i only eat lots of greens and limited fruit...i just get sickly skinny.....well i acually dont lose weight... but i lose the muscle thats left on my body and nothing biulds stronger!....its like the muscle...turns into flabby fat...and then it wont budge
and i guess i should make it clear.. that i dont want huge arms.. i do not want HUGE muscles...since im so small.. huge muscles just wouldnt look right on my frame.... i do want SOME muscle lol cuz thats part of a healthy body!
i just lose all the muscle i have...and i just start to look unhealthy ..
ive also tried eating more fruit and less greens... but this didnt work either! :mad:
sometimes what i think is that ive ruined my entire metabolism from being on the pill for 2 years ... it seems like sometimes i think my entire thyriod isnt functioning properly.....
but i do have faith in raw foods..and hope that my body will re biuld itself ....
ive had sooooo many benifits from being raw... id never give it up!
also... i lose all my energy for even lifting weights when i dont take my whey protien... like ive got no strength... and i dont believe this to be detox... i do believe in detox to some point... but not when for months you lose all your strength and desire to even work out!...
my whey seems to be the only thing that acually keeps me on track... about how i feel... keeps my emotions in balance... my entire system feels more balanced... ive only noticed such positive things from it... so could this mean my body just isnt ready to give it up!? and maybe as time goes by.. evenually i wont need it anymore??
i do want to give it up... becuase it the only thing that keeps me from being 100%... but then. its the only thing that DOES keep me on 100% lol .. well 99% i should say eh !
hmm... there is so much more i could say.... but if i did.. this post would never end!!
i guess id love some ideas as to how or what i could eat... that i could replace my protien with... without getting the negative side effects i did the last time i shut it out!
ps. i do know the body is constantly rebiulding itself... and you can always be going thru detox... ect... and i have gone thru detox..several times... not to harshly tho..thank god.. maybe cuz im still young and didnt have to much damage on my body! but my degistion since going raw has slowly been getting better and better ( 2 x a day now.. compared to only once every morning for about a year on raw )....
my hair and nails are really strong....which could be from the supplements i take...since i always have and always will... i take super blue green algea...maca to balance my hormones & ive noticed it helps with keeping SOME muscle on me...MSM..which has done wonders i think!..also a multi here and there...ill never give these up... UNTIL i get to eat a 100% certificed organic diet... which i do eat plently of now.. but i also eat conventional... and ive read tones about the dangerous side effects of pesticides... so i find peace with myself when i take my supplements.. that they give me an added boost and kick out the pesticides i do injest :p
all thru out highschool i got terrible terrible cold saors...but i never wanted to believe my dad that it could be from my horrible diet... TILL i finally started eating better... whole foods.. meat at dinner...fresh vegetables.. and sometimes steamed...brown rice... oatmeal... basically cut out all refined white sugar ( and all other sugars besides fruit ) and white flour...and since i havent seen a cold soar... all the while always taking my vitamins tho! this was like.. 3 years ago..when i started eating healthy... and for a year ive been raw now...not a cold saor in sight..besides the time i gave up my vitamins... :( it seems like the vitamins do help to keep my immune system strong... i also never get sick ( i better knock on wood now lol )
this is way off topic now!!! i bet this post is miles long! soo sorry!! like i said.. i could make this miles long!
anyways..thats a bit more about myself...seems like my life is becoming an open book for everyone to read.. hahah!
again..thanks sooooooo much for taking the time to respond! i do hope this helped a little so maybe you could give me some more advice?
your above post did help alot tho...thank you :)
01-01-2005, 07:57 PM
Thanks for posting a reply, Alissa! I found it helpful to read, too. I too was confused/frustrated by thinking I could lose a sig. amount of fat and build a sig. amount of muscle all at once. Your post definitely helped to put it in perspective.
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