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View Full Version : Fat is fat is fat -- NOT!! (from Alissa)



RawTruth
01-29-2006, 03:11 PM
For those who wish to know, here is something Alissa posted back in July in a thread about fats (when she has time to be on the board more). A member was extremely concerned about raw fats and believed she needed to keep her fat intake to 10% of her daily food (this is according to a 80 10 10 plan espoused by natural hygienists, by the way -- but please don't go there just cuz I mentioned it, folks!). I've explained this just to put this post in context.

This is cut and pasted from Alissa's original post -- what follows is from her, not from me (though I wish I'd written it!! LOL) though the emphasis is mine.

Hi,

Sure its nice to get other view points, (as long as they are raw ;)) for this board as it is a raw food support board but there certainly are a lot of different ways to do raw. I think it's good that you know that for yourself if you ‘listen to your body’ you will eat too many nuts and too much fat. If you know you don’t feel well with that much fat then certainly its good to eat less of it. That’s great you're figuring that out. It really is a learning process. That’s the thing ... a lot of people think they can do raw for a couple of weeks and figure out the perfect diet. There is NO perfect diet. And let me warn you ahead of time… even when you think you have it figured out and have been eating raw for years and you feel you found the perfect way for you to eat… it will change! Think about it, we are always changing as human beings so of course our diet wouldn’t stay the same as a few years before when we were in a different location, environment, doing different things, working out differently, in a different emotional state, etc… it's ever changing .

DonÂ’t try to pin this diet down, it will never be perfect, just like us! LOL!

Ok, so first, I personally don’t believe that ‘fat is fat’. If that were true people would not be dying of excess meat consumption and healing themselves from a high fat raw diet. I've just seen both too many times. Of course there is always the person who is gorging themselves and eating 20 cups of nuts a day, etc.. and obviously that’s not the healthiest diet either. Excessive amounts of one particular thing is not good for anyone, raw or not, and there are always those that go to the extreme.

. . . I really never never never tell people what percentage of fat or anything else they should have. I have obviously got pretty good at looking at a few days worth of people's food intake and knowing what needs to be cut out, added, or changed. Most of it is because I have been doing this for so long but some is intuitive also as you need to take into consideration the person's mental state as well. I strongly believe that. Its really not just about the food. But that is another issue that we can discuss but let's stick to this first.

You asked in the above post: “What fat % do you suggest for weight loss with energy? Please don't say listen to your body CUZ I LOVE FAT - nuts, seeds...YUMMY!”

See this is the problem. Of course you can't listen to your body because unless you're starting with a clean slate your body doesnÂ’t know exactly what it needs. How can it tell when it's still getting cooked (I donÂ’t know if you're 100% raw or not) or too much of the wrong foods and is off balance. This is why I tell people to go 100% raw, totally vegan raw. Raw raw raw, no exceptions for a month or two or more because only then, I believe, is when you can really start to listen to your body for signals.

But here is also the thing. Even then, how do you know those signals are coming from the emotional or physical? It takes time to really get this. Not days or weeks or even months for some people. This is why I say to people, ‘go raw, don’t worry about the amounts of things, let your body heal and cleanse and when its ready you will naturally start to crave what you need and what is right.’ Otherwise people after weeks, months, etc…start adjusting or listening to other people and saying, ok maybe that’s my problem, and start cutting back and cutting out and adding weird things and then saying, this doesn’t work and this and that is not doing it for me. Like I always say, don’t expect to be cooked for 30-40-50 years and then after a month to have it perfected with the raw diet. It takes time really it does.

You also asked: ‘How long does a person have to wait to not crave the need for fat sources?’

LOL, wouldnÂ’t it be wonderful if I could answer that one! Who knows?! Anyone who tells you an exact amount of time it takes is lying. And you will always crave fat sources if you're not eating enough of them. At first you will crave more on raw, avocados, nuts, etc.. because your body is adjusting to a new way of eating. Your body is using these fats much more efficiently and quickly then cooked fats so you need more at first since your body is not used to the clean fuel its getting. It will subside, but give it time. I can promise you this. If you do 10% fat you will be craving fat more often then not. Maybe not at first, maybe not in the middle, but at different times. Why not just eat raw and let your body adjust. You won't be eating tons of nuts and loads of fat for very long. YouÂ’ll get sick of it. Your body is craving it for a reason. Maybe it needs the good healthy fats and maybe you shouldnÂ’t deny it that.

Also, I would eat more avocados and fatty fruits and vegetable instead of tons of nuts as you won't feel great after eating that many nuts. But again, you need to step back and let it take its course, [and not] feel an urgency to get it right. Raw food will never work if you need to be perfect with your diet. It's not set up that way. If youÂ’re a calorie counter, fat watcher, carb and protein analyzer . . . then this isnÂ’t the diet for you.

This diet is so beautiful and feeing. Let it be that. WhatÂ’s the point if you're going to do it the same way you did cooked?


RawTruth again here -- I think she said this perfectly. Hopefully, it will answer the concerns many of you new to raw food have been having about fats. To sum up: eat up them avocadoes, olives, and other plant fats -- fat is NOT a bad word in our world!!

Now, get out there!

RawFoodieMom
01-29-2006, 03:21 PM
Thanks for reposting this, RawTruth! :) Alissa really did explain it well here. I have a question. I really really don't like olives (maybe that will change later) and I don't like avocados, though I'm going to try chocolate pudding, etc to try and incorporate them into my diet for the benefits. What other plant foods have good fats besides nuts? I would like to vary my foods more.

Debra

sweetgoddess
01-29-2006, 03:22 PM
hallelujah RT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rawfoodiemom.....do you like coconuts? GREAT source of raw fat! Just to let you know I despised avacadoes when I first went raw and love them now after a year. Your tastes will change. :)

berrienoire
01-29-2006, 03:32 PM
yes, many thanks for reposting this!!

Beanie
01-29-2006, 04:06 PM
When I tried 811, I was going to ditch raw foods. But once I started eating fats and prepared foods, I started to feel good and I can maintain that! So I'm all for slow burning fats! ;)

faith4u
01-29-2006, 04:23 PM
This is very helpful. Thank you so much for bumping this up. I am still learning and re-teaching myselfy what is right and what is wrong. I am going to print out some of these things that Alissa has said so that I can have them to read over and over.

rawfigure
01-29-2006, 05:11 PM
This is very helpful. Thank you so much for bumping this up. I am still learning and re-teaching myselfy what is right and what is wrong. I am going to print out some of these things that Alissa has said so that I can have them to read over and over.

Yes very Helpful Rawtruth. Being into my 4th Month raw I am experiencing all that you write, or should I say Alissa, mentions. Thanks again.

I am one of the "former' calorie counting everymorsel, carb, fat protein ratio counter...so this has been a BIG step for me. 30 yrs of calorie counting has left me alittle (a little ? understatement here!) mind warped, so my detox has not been just of the body, but also of the mind...and it is taking some time. But so Worth it !

formally twinee, now rawfigure, really Leslie

lily
01-29-2006, 06:40 PM
Dear Rawtruth, thank you so very much for posting this. It describes exactly what has happened -- is happening -- for me and is so reassuring and encouraging.

First of all I just couldn't get enough nuts, now I feel almost sick at the thought of them and this last week, since I had some kind of flu or maybe it was a 'healing crisis', I've been craving avocados -- 2 or 3 large ones a day -- but at last the weight seems to be dropping off because although i haven't weighed (and won't!), all my clothes is getting very loose.

So thanks again, you and Alissa both, for the wisdom and encouragement.

What a miracle this way of life is --

lily

misslinda
01-29-2006, 07:54 PM
RT, thank you for putting that in a "nut" shell for us. I have been pondering fats as I'm finishing a long fast. This takes alot of the fear out. :)

RawTruth
01-29-2006, 08:03 PM
FINALLY!!!!! A picture of the real MissLinda!!! I've been looking forward to this for a year!!! Yay yay yay!

Leslie, we ALL are more than a little "mind warped" as you so aptly put it. We've been taught the wrong things in school, given misinformation by our doctors, had literally thousands of diets sold to us (most usually contradicting the last diet that came around), have corporate-owned fast food outlets actually tell us that their food is nutritious and healthy, and have had our taste buds totally distorted from their natural state by the taste enhancers, additives, chemicals, and denatured elements in most of the food we've been eating. Well ... d-u-h!!! we'd have had to fly in from another planet not to have been affected by all this crap.

You're doing fine (all of you). Just keep investigating and finding out the truth.

And -- most of all -- get Alissa's book, darn it!! It has so many answers to the questions y'all have and the concerns your loved ones have about you. (Okay, commercial over for now!)

p.s. If you don't have Living on Live Food because you really, truly can't afford it (not because you've chosen to spend your money elsewhere like on a manicure!), email me privately.

Rawmney
01-29-2006, 08:08 PM
I understand what's presented here re: the veg fats being healthy re: diet - no argument! Any thoughts re: heart disease? Dean Ornish advocates less than 10%, and I don't know that he differentiates olive oil, avocados, nuts, etc. Also, on some of the lists of what the raw diet helps with, I'm not sure I've seen heart disease listed.

Now let's hope I don't have heart disease anyway, but I have bad family history. I'm planning to ask a cardiologist about this next week, but am not too optimistic she'll be familiar with benefits of raw. I know walnuts are supposed to be heart healthy.

Thoughts anyone? If I've missed a reading in the article section, please just point me there of course!

RawTruth
01-29-2006, 08:27 PM
Rawmney,

He advocates 10% because he advocates eating cooked foods. That 10% is not raw plant fats.

And, yes, there have been people who, by eating only raw and living foods, have allowed their bodies to heal their unhealthy hearts. (Not 90% raw, not 95% raw -- but ALL raw.)

Our bodies are magical organisms. They're made to be self-healing. Think of a fever - it's the body's attempt to burn out whatever invader (or who knows what) is causing problems for it. When we interfere with this natural process by taking Tylenol, we are keeping in what our body, in its innate wisdom, is trying to burn out. Thus, we remain sick for longer ... each time the temp goes up, we take (or give to our poor children) another dose of Tylenol or Bayer aspirin or whatever. The same is true of anything going on in our bodies. Our bodies know what to do to keep us healthy. We don't have to understand it intellectually, we don't have to know exactly what it is that's it's doing, we just have to trust that it will do what it needs to. This can happen as long as we are giving it the tools it needs - fresh, raw, ripe, organic (if possible) fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds. And, as long as we stay out of its way!!

If I may ask, why are you seeing a cardiologist? Are you having heart problems now? Try to keep in mind that if you go to an allopathic doctor, he or she will likely find something wrong with you -- or, at least, give you a prescription for something that will (supposedly) keep you from becoming ill. The medicine is almost always worse than whatever did or did not ail you to begin with. Dr. McDougall recently reminded his newsletter subscribers that the AMA (!!) long ago recommended AGAINST yearly checkups. Anyone interested can go to his site and search ... or read the last few months of newsletters. Except for his dependence on cooked foods, he's a great M.D. who's done great work, I think. By the way, even he says that all raw is the optimal diet, but he just doesn't feel that most people can do that ... and his mission is to reach as many people as possible.

Sorry -- waaaay more than you bargained for with my reply!!! I'll try to be brief from now on! (Well, I promise that I'll try ... )

berrienoire
01-29-2006, 08:39 PM
RawTruth...

It's a good thing that you weren't brief in your last reply... That info serves me very well, thank you very much!! :D

sweetgoddess
01-29-2006, 10:25 PM
"so my detox has not been just of the body, but also of the mind"

And that's what its all about!! Yeah! :)

It all comes down to getting out of your head and into the true experience of your body. Stop analyzing and just do it! Give yourself the gift of the experience.

JMD
01-30-2006, 08:34 AM
RawTruth!!

THANK you for posting this!! I think it is a great reminder. For me, I am allergic to coconut and sensitive to avocados---however I can drink flax oil by the gallon--kidding here. My body does the best on some ground seeds and flax oil--that is it for fats..but I love them and keep them about 15-25% of my daily intake of foods. It also changes depending on season time of month and my digestion. I find fats are not the culprit--it is food combining and how I eat that makes the difference for me.

The way I look at life as well as raw food journey is that it is a DISCOVERY! it is gonna change ---as we change--- Keep a journal and look at the mystery unfolding within each of us... Lately, I do not need TV I am my own DISCOVERY CHANNEL.!! :p

JMD:)
10 days 100% raw--no steamed veggies--my crutch for the past 9 months..

Rawmney
01-30-2006, 10:38 AM
Thanks RawTruth! Very helpful comments!

I do have an arrythmia that needs to be checked out and some misc. discomfort (don't want to keel over while I let the raw foods do their magic... or while I get to 100%, no lapses). I'm sensitive to the drug-pushers, turning down a doc who wanted to put me on cholesterol lowering medicine a ways back and leaving her entirely when I found her answer to everything was a prescription!

Victoria Boutenko talks about being cured of an arrythmia via raw, but for now, I can't give blood until I get the clearance. Of course, if I stay raw, I may not weigh enough to give blood anyway.

I'm definitely excited that raw can be my ongoing insurance against bad genetics. Just being careful in the meantime and watching for anything that might be mechanical vs. nutritional.

Your comments were informative, not long. I think the message creator with its compressed width makes us feel we're going on longer than we are. When it's valuable, it doesn't matter anyway. Thanks again!

RawTruth
01-30-2006, 05:49 PM
While it's true that there haven't been any long-term studies on raw foodists about which I'm aware, this article describes the results of last year's study of raw foodists (including Victoria and Igor Boutenko) done at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. I recall Victoria describing their week-long stay there and the incredible myriad of tests performed on them -- every conceivable blood test, treadmill, cardiovascular, etc. The small news release, of course, emphasized the one area that can be viewed as a negative -- although the articles mentioned that low bone density is not necessarily a problem.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4389837.stm
UK



Raw food eaters thin but healthy



Fresh vegetables are a good source of vitamins

People who follow a raw food vegetarian diet are light in weight but healthy, according to US
researchers.

It has been suggested that eating only plant-derived foods that have not been cooked or processed might make bones thinner and prone to fractures.

But a study in Archives of Internal Medicine found although bones were lighter on this diet, turnover rates were normal with no osteoporosis.

The lower bone mass is due to raw food eaters being slim, believe the authors. We recommend a varied, healthy, balanced diet which includes raw fruit and vegetables as well as other foods.

Dr Stephen Walsh, nutrition spokesperson for the Vegan Society

The researchers compared the bone health of 18 people who had been following strict raw food diets for up to 10 years with that of people who ate a more typical American diet, including refined carbohydrates, animal products and cooked foods.

The raw food diet is different to more typical vegetarian and vegan diets, which do not exclude cooked, processed or otherwise refined foods.

The groups were matched according to age, sex and socioeconomic status.

To gauge bone health, the researchers looked at each person's body weight, bone weight and mineral density, markers of bone turnover, levels of vitamin D and inflammatory markers.

Bone health

The raw food vegetarians in the study had lower body weights (BMI) and total body fat than the other volunteers. They also had lower bone mass and bone mineral density.

"It is well documented that a low BMI and weight loss are strongly associated with low bone mass and increased fracture risk, while obesity protects against osteoporosis," said the researchers.

But the people who followed raw food diets did not have any other biological markers that typically accompany osteoporosis and had normal rates of bone turnover.

Lead researcher Dr Luigi Fontana, from Washington University School of Medicine in St Louis, said: "We think it's possible these people don't have increased risk of fracture but that their low bone mass is related to the fact that they are lighter because they take in fewer calories."

Dr Fontana said the raw food diet group also had higher vitamin D levels than people on a typical Western diet, even though they did not consume dairy products which are known to be a good source of vitamin D.

He said this was probably due to sun exposure.

Dr Stephen Walsh, nutrition spokesperson for the Vegan Society, said it was to be expected that people who ate only raw foods would be slimmer and that this would in turn have an effect on bone mass.

Balanced diet

He stressed that raw food vegetarians account for only a minority of people who are vegan and vegetarian, and that some might find it difficult to get enough calories to maintain a healthy weight eating only raw foods.

"We recommend a varied, healthy, balanced diet which includes raw fruit and vegetables as well as other foods," he said.

A spokeswoman from the Vegetarian Society said the study was interesting, but given that only 18 people were studied, it's usefulness to those wishing to follow a vegetarian or vegan diet was very limited.

"We recommend eating a healthy, well balanced vegetarian or vegan diet that includes 2-3 portions per day of high protein foods such as pulses, nuts, soya and wheat proteins, five portions of carbohydrates (the less refined the better), 2-3 portions of dairy products or calcium-enriched dairy alternatives and at least five portions of fruit and vegetables.

"Raw foods can and should be included within this 'balance' but it is not advisable to embark on an exclusively raw food diet without proper research and expert advice," she said.

A spokesman for the National Osteoporosis Society said: "This is an interesting study which highlights the fact that low bone density is just one part of our overall risk of breaking bones.

"We would recommend that raw food vegans make sensible food choices to ensure they are taking in an adequate amount of calcium from a variety of foods and ensure they obtain good amounts of vitamin D from sensible exposure to sunlight."

Elaine Bruce, experienced naturopath, homeopath and director of the UK Centre for Living Foods, said calcium was important for building bones, but that inorganic calcium in the form of supplements would not do the job.

"You have to have organic calcium as it occurs in fresh green leafy vegetables. "What we do in our programme is maximise that intake by having it in juice form."

She said that the chlorophyll found in green plants and vegetables also contained right amount of magnesium that is essential for the uptake of calcium for healthy bones.

"The chemical composition of chlorophyll and blood is very similar which further facilitates this uptake," she added.