new to raw....contradicting information

[skipfire92]

Hi--

I'm a long-time vegan but fairly new to raw. i have come across a bunch of conflicting information regarding several topics. Can anyone help? Sorry this post is going to be a bit long; if anyone can respond to some/any of these I'd really appreciate it:

1. Fermented foods: if you make them yourself, how do you know you have the good bacteria and not the bad ones? sauerkraut, nut and seed cheeses, rejuvelac.... i saw that the hippocrates institute funded a study on rejuvelac and it turned out 60% of the batches had the bad bacteria vs 40% with the good ones and there was no way to tell by color smell taste appearance etc.

Also, are fermented foods good for us or not? another poster on another board says that they deplete b-vitamins in our bodies and then we need to supplement b's if were going to eat fermented foods

Are fermented foods (particularly sauerkraut) beneficial or harmful to people with candida? ive seen both claimjs

Ive read alot about the ideal state for the body is alkaline. but fermented foods are acidic, right? and yet they have been shown to be good for us (ie weston price found all the cultures he studied ate some sort of fermeted foods)....... so whats the deal?

2. sprouts: good or bad? i always thought good, and i know ann wigmore and many others have used them to cure people of disease, etc and she has written books on it. but i came across stuff saying that sprouts contain toxins and that they have special toxins when their young to prevent animqals from eating them before they have a chance to grow...so we shouldnt eat them because of the toxins. i think its andrew weil (?) who is claiming this but i dont know anythign about him...

3. teeth: ive read alot about people having teeth problems on raw vegan. and something about having to carefully balance nutrient levels; like if theres too much potassiusium (too many bananas) percentage it interferes and results in bad teeth. id like to avoid further dental problems...... so what do i need to know/do/eat? i know dark green leafies are good.
also on this point, what to brush teeth with to help remineralization? ive seen salt, baking soda and hydrogen peroxide. but ive also seen u shouldnt use salt if you have metal fillings because it corrodes them, that baking soda is too harsh for daily use and can wear off the enamel, and that hydrogen peroxide shouldnt be used by people with amalgam fillings because it can make the mercury leach out of the fillings into the body.... i have amalgam fillings that im not in a position to have removed. so what can i brush with? the glycerine in toothpaste apparently interferes with remineralization......

4. excitotoxins, soy and nutritional yeast: ive read that any soy when heated produces msg=excitotoxins which kill brain cells, even nama shoyu...? ive also been told that yeast extract is an excitotoxin. does this go for redstar nutritional yeast as well? also, what about "raw tofu?" i have a living foods recipe book with a recipe for this. teh author seems respectable and to know what hes talking about, but then ive read soy is just bad bad bad; that its an antinutrient, etc. and yet it has an admirable amino acid profile and i really miss tofu. for this recipe you sprout and ferment soybeans. but then ive also read that fermenting increases genistein (sp?) in soy which i guess is something bad.....

5. amount of food on raw: ive seen it recommended that we eat 1-2 and a half POUNDS of green a day. Theres no way i could eat this much greens. I already feel like im just cramming them down because i know theyre good for me. i like them, but not that much; that sounds like punishment to try to get down that many a day. some days i dont feel like eating any but i make myself anyway... yes i know about green smoothies but still, 1-2 and a half POUNDS? also, is there a limit on how much greens/nutrients the body can absorb at once? im not in a position to eat alot during the day escept easily transportable food so i end up eating greens mostly at night; but if my body can only use a certain amount of them then wouldnt the rest be wasted (ie just going right through me). Also, do you have to be high-income to be a raw-fooder? sometimes i feel like thats the case. my grocery bill has gone up considerably since switching from cooked vegan with a fair amount of raw to all raw. And to eat this amount of greens in a day would cost me like 30 dollars a week--just for greens. not to mention the other stuff that is expensive like flax and coconut oil and organic fruits and raw nuts........ anyone have any suggestions for raw-on-a-budget? i already shop at the coop and grow my own sprouts; no possibility of having a garden at this time, and i have a high energy physically demanding job (bike messenger in downtown DC) so I think my caloric needs are probably higher than someone who is doing primarily sedentary work...which means more high-density groceries....

Thanks for any help you can give. again, sorry its so long

thanks

kb

[SamuelWilson]

Wow, that is a loaded question. I was going to try and type a short reply, but I don't see how that would be possible.

I will mention that the sprouts are healthy. A claim that sprouts contain toxin to keep animals from eating them is just not true.

I will have to finish replying to this one later. You should receive some helpful replies in the mean time.

[sport]

I am going to state what I do (for what it is worth) but this id just me.

Fermented Foods
I do not use any fermented foods

2. sprouts:
I eat as much sprouts as I can because I think that they are terific and Andrew Weil is not even vegan let alone raw.

3. teeth:
I brush with the toothsoap that I bought from Victoria's site

4. excitotoxins, soy and nutritional yeast:
I think that soy is not good and all yeasts are bad.

5. amount of food on raw: Victoria says that if you use blended greens you only need about 25% because you absorb more.

Your bill will go up to begin with but you will find that as the weeks go by you will be buying less and less as you will have built up a store.

[kennym02]

I, too, have many of the same questions. I've read that sprouts contain mold, & if you have candida, you should avoid them, as well as all fermented food, since they feed candida. The Hippocrates Health Institute, founded by Ann Wigmore, relies heavily on sprouts & wheatgrass (also prone to mold) as well as large amounts of fermented foods to feed their clients, & they allow practically no fruit in their regimen. They say that fruit sugar is no good for you. I always thought that fresh fruit is alive with vitamins & minerals & they are a cleansing food. Also, most raw foodists eat an abundance of fresh fruit. Alissa says she cured her candida by just going raw & she uses an enormous amount of dates & fruit in her deserts. The Hippocrates is world-reknown. Who am I supposed to believe?

It's very frustrating to read one professional's opinion about diet & nutrition, then read the complete opposite opinion from another professional, who is equally well educated, & both have numerous degrees in nutrition.

Concerning Andrew Weil, he always speaks on health issues. However, he does not look the picture of health to me & he's getting bigger & more out-of-shape as we speak. If he wants people to trust what he is saying, he should at least look the part.

As far as teeth cleaning goes, I tried Toothsoap & returned it. I'm using Ora-md now. It has only 3 ingredients: almond oil, peppermint oil & spearmint oil. It really has healed my gums. They are pink now instead of red. It's almost impossible to find a natural toothpaste that doesn't contain sodium-lauryl-sulfate, which I believe was contributing to my periodontal problems. I have crowns & can't use abrasives. I'm told to use baking soda by one expert, & told by another expert that baking soda is very abrasive. If anyone here has a recommendation for an effective toothpaste without SLS, flouride, or glycerin, other than Toothsoap, I would appreciate it.

As far as greens go, its easy to get a lot of greens into you when they're in liquid form. Green smoothies are the best & very easy to make.

As far as cost goes, I don't buy organic. I can't afford it. I shop at the farmer's market every 2 days & buy bulk nuts at Costco & always soak them. I've found organic flax seeds at the health food store, & they're very inexpensive, 1-pound for $1.99. The flax oil is expensive, but Vitacost has Nature's Way EFA Gold Super Lignan Flax Oil, 16 oz. for $7.89. Coconut oil is also very expensive, but you should use only a small amount at a time & it should last long.

You're always going to find contradictions when it comes to health advice. I believe that each person's body is unique. What is recommended for one might cause harm to another. You have to experiment & find what works for you. Keep on asking questions. Good luck.

[Angelina]

Hmm..you posted a lot of questions!! I'll just answer the one I'm sure of, fermented foods and candida ~ its actually very good for Candida, according to Donna Gates and the Body Ecology diet, thats actually a staple of the diet. I think I have a candida overgrowth and just started adding kim chi (fermented veggies) to my diet. I'll let you all know how it goes.

[DrPr]

Concerning Andrew Weil, he always speaks on health issues. However, he does not look the picture of health to me & he's getting bigger & more out-of-shape as we speak. If he wants people to trust what he is saying, he should at least look the part.

I just read a thread that David Wolfe and one of the Boutenkos look rather chubby and unhealthy themselves, yet they are raw foodists. Sometimes the people who provide us with healthy info (like our overweight doctors and nurses) don't always practice what they preach. I agree, it does make things more confusing for newbies like me.

[karenisraw]

I will just tell you what I do and why.

Sprouts - don't eat them because they simply don't interest me or I dont particularly like them but I am going to eventually because my doctor recommends them.

Fermented foods - I eat Kim Chee as much as possible, just because I feel like it is good for me and I like it.

I can't eat that much greens, but I would enjoy it if I was forced to.

I try not to eat soy - naturally don't think my wants or needs it.

Cost of produce - if I can afford it I buy organic, but I started buying regular because I can't afford it right now. I pretty much buy only foods with my income. If I need other household items, I shop at thrift stores to save money. (I used to be embarrased to do this, but I know tons of people that do so I don't mind anymore) :p

If I were you, I would look around and find where is the best price for you and do the best that you can. You are already eating healthier than most if you are raw vegan by far.

Maybe you will get a hefty raise and will be able to afford this more. By the way. The only appliance I own is a 19.00 blender and a kithchen knife. Although I do buy dehydrated crackers at a raw food restaraunt. I will probably invest in a dehydrator eventually but I do not need it to be raw.

Good Luck! I am sure you will find a way to afford being raw. No matter how expensive it seems to me, I seem to do all right.

[kayla]

I can only really answer your last question.

I am a 19 year old college freshman, so it definately puts me on a very limited budget, especially for food.

I found that it cost a lot of money to get some basics like olive oil, agave nectar, coconut oil, nuts, etc. Plus, I had to buy myself a good blender and food processor.

Other than that, I've found that it's actually costing about the same or less than it was when I was SAD. SAD food gave me so many cravings and I just couldn't control myself and I would binge on all sorts of rotten food and never get satisfied. But now, I really have started to eat to live instead of living to eat.

So, it really depends how many nuts you eat and how many gourmet foods you make. Of course, along with these gourmet type foods you need to realize you may make plenty of foods you dont like at all and end up wasting ingredients.

It doesn't have to be expensive, but it sure can be.

BTW, I only eat organic when I can because I've just started out and I am more concerned about staying raw as long as possible, than to be obsessed with whether my food is organic or not.

[exurb]

skipfire, welcome, and very interesting questions.

as an aside, I live in Canada, and we had a case taken to the supreme court here to allow bike couriers to write off additional food off their income taxes. I forget what the amount is per day, but it was considered fair because they burn extra food as fuel. :)

hope you have an excellent raw journey. Maybe as time goes on, try asking some of those questions individually too for more answers... such as raw on a budget as its own heading, you might want to ask people for some "portable food" recipes, like bars, etc... I'm sure we can be of lots of help to you.

some brief answers

1_ you don't have to ferment your nut and seed cheese, there are many recipes without fermentation

2) sprouts - I think sprouting is an excellent way to help do raw on a budget. If you're concerned with toxins, maybe research each type of sprout individually, rather than just write off the whole class. (I've read different things about different sprouts. I've seen animals decline one type of sprout but eat another). One strategy for toxins is to try to have as VARIED a diet as possible.

3) teeth is complicated, sorry can't be of more help. Personally I don't ignore the studies, and try to be extra vigilant about my teeth. I think the physical cleanliness can also do wonders regardless of what else you use as a "product" - I love my waterpik, and my Oral B 3-D power toothbrush.

4) I don't do soy, nama shoyu or nutritional yeast. If you would really miss the soy sauce, it's probably not that bad in small amounts on occasions.

5) I think you can do just fine with less than those poundages of green. I don't think you have to be rich to be a raw fooder.

We're never going to have a perfect diet. Even things that are good for us can also have toxic properties. So I think if you are suddenly going to eat huge amounts of one particular food, it would be a good idea to research it, but if you're really varying your diet, you're probably averting most potential problems.

For some budget ideas for you, consider getting nuts from Costco. Also sunflower seeds are cheaper than many nuts. You might want to get into some grains/"fruit of grain" (as raw groats), like buckwheat, oats, rye, quinoa, etc. If you settle on something you like, try to find a cheap source, you can buy a very large bag if it's something you're gonna go through. I buy buckwheat in a 25 pound bag for convenience. Grated root veggies like beets and carrots can be cheap in winter and make nice salads. There's lots you can do. You don't need a whole kitchen full of all the raw appliances you hear about to eat raw.

On the problem of overwhelming conflicting info, maybe try to look at the qualifications and motivations of the source to help sort it out for yourself too.

Gotta run, good luck!

[sport]

[QUOTE=kennym02]As far as teeth cleaning goes, I tried Toothsoap & returned it. I'm using Ora-md now. It has only 3 ingredients: almond oil, peppermint oil & spearmint oil.

Can you tell me why you returned the toothsoap and what was unsatisfactory about it. I have started using it so I would be interested in your experience.

[twinee1]

I just read a thread that David Wolfe and one of the Boutenkos look rather chubby and unhealthy themselves, yet they are raw foodists. Sometimes the people who provide us with healthy info (like our overweight doctors and nurses) don't always practice what they preach. I agree, it does make things more confusing for newbies like me.

Did you read this on thebestdayever.com ? (that is David's site , members only that has access to audio and video files ) and I am a member and I never saw such a post.

Recent pictures & audio of David do not support that message he recently talked ( and he said he was going to post his recent blood test results) and they would prove that to be "gossip". I would not take that post as gospel.

Those that are close to David, like Len Foley would refute that post. Link me to it if you can ?

[sweetgoddess]

It is very common to start on raw, come across conflicting information and become confused. That is because everybody's perspective and everybody's experiences are going to differ, since we are all unique beings.


You cannot find truth in a book or at a lecture. You can only find what is true for you through experience. Eat some sprouts and see how they make you feel. Eat some kraut and see what you think. Your truth will be different. It will be found in your very own, personal experience!

Best wishes~
Carmel

[Smileen]

I haven't read Andrew Weil in many years, but did when he first came on the scene. Back then, he mentioned only alfalfa sprouts as being toxic. The mold question is another story. Than can obviously happen with any sprout.

I hated the Toothsoap too.

Thanks for your thought provoking questions.

[sport]

[QUOTE=Smileen]I hated the Toothsoap too.

I did not like it in the beginning but I persisted and now it does not bother me.

[Punky]

Hmm..you posted a lot of questions!! I'll just answer the one I'm sure of, fermented foods and candida ~ its actually very good for Candida, according to Donna Gates and the Body Ecology diet, thats actually a staple of the diet. I think I have a candida overgrowth and just started adding kim chi (fermented veggies) to my diet. I'll let you all know how it goes.

I've always heard fermented foods were good for candida too; I have
Donna Gates book and a few of Dr. Gabriel Cousens books ("Rainbow Green
Live Food Cuisine"). After I eat fermented foods I feel excellant; just
my experience.

[Punky]

I just read a thread that David Wolfe and one of the Boutenkos look rather chubby and unhealthy themselves, yet they are raw foodists. Sometimes the people who provide us with healthy info (like our overweight doctors and nurses) don't always practice what they preach. I agree, it does make things more confusing for newbies like me.

I've seen David Wolfe in person twice for lectures. Last year and the year
before....He did not look chubby or unhealthy in my humble opinion.
His skin is tan and GLOWING...rather radiant...his weight is average
for his height...he was not ultra thin like many raw men can get,
but certainly not chubby. His whole crew that were there were thin
as well.
But that was last February...have no idea what he looks like now.

[sigtau66]

I'll answer part of one of your questions because I recently came across an article discussing it from a place I trust.

Sprouting and mold. If you sprout in a jar or bowl, you shouldn't have to worry about mold. Now if you're sprouting things in soil (wheatgrass), specifically in small trays inside, you do have to be aware of mold. Because the seeds are planted so close to each other and it's natural for a certain amount of seeds not to grow, the growing wheatgrass can absorb the moldiness of the dead seeds into their leaves. If you're allergic to mold, you should be careful about growing wheatgrass indoors in small trays. There's a reason most people can only drink a small amount of wheatgrass juice.

If you want to read the full article, go to this link: http://www.newstarget.com/016747.html

As for your other quesitons, I think I have to concur with Sweetgoddess. Eat raw and then evaluate how you feel. If you feel good, then I wouldn't worry about some of those questions you had.

[kennym02]

Sport, I think the toothsoap did a good job of cleaning my teeth. However, the taste was horrendous. I had ordered the peppermint one, & there wasn't a hint of peppermint in it. My teeth felt clean, but that feeling only lasted about 5 minutes & it did absolutely nothing for my breath. The booklet written by the toothsoap creator is, in my opinion, useless. Maybe you will have a different experience with it. Good luck.

[RowanC]

Seems like everyone has an opinion so I may as well post mine.

I think as long as the sprouts are fresh, they are good for you. I've had more energy and healing since I've been on this "diet" and I eat boatloads of sprouts. I will also answer your question about greens here. If you are trying to just push down greens and sprouts alone, it could get mighty boring. The answer is to use the recipes calling for those things. Alissa's book ROCKS and there are other websites with posted recipes. I could no more eat a cupful of alfalfa sprouts on a salad than I could surf, but mixed into Alissa's "tuna" recipe, they are awesome. Same with other sprouted seeds.

I have multiple chemical sensitivities and am very sensitive to grains, but I can eat sprouted, dehydrated grains with no problem.

Regarding what to brush your teeth with, I'd not panic too much. Most of those danged studies are done in excess. Like they may take a tooth and brush it 1000 strokes, then say the paste is causing enamel damage. Duhhh... If you're that concerned, you have to read the entire study, not someone's mention of it on a website or in a book.

My grandmother is 90 years old. She has brushed her teeth with a mixture of soda, salt, dried lemon peel, and a drop or two of cinnamon oil forever. She has ALL of her own teeth... ALL of them... no false teeth. A lot of dental problems are hereditary. Of course, if you are eating sticky sweet fruit, you need to brush your teeth afterwards or yes, you will get cavities. But you can use just water if you want. And use a SOFT brush. And FLOSS... just once a day is enough according to my naturopath dentist.

By the way, the toothbrushing powder can be kept in a small salt shaker. You just shake some into your palm, dip your brush into it, and brush. You can mix it up in a coffee grinder.

I can't remember your other questions, so I guess I'm done.
Do what feels right to YOU... there's no one answer for everyone.

Peace.

[skipfire92]

hi--

wow! just wanted to say thanks for all your responses. looks like some others have come across some of the same sorts of conflicting info (kennym02 :) ). Based on the responses given here, it seems that fermented foods probably are ok and ok for candida--i now recall, as angelina mentnioeed, coming across that body ecology book and how fermented foods were one of the major food groups in it. My question still remains about how if you are making your own fermented foods how you avoid getting the "bad bacteria"instead of the good ones, but that is probably a topic for a separate post. Also thanks for all the advice on raw-on-a-budget. i have all the "gadgets"" already, which i have accumulated over time--blender, coffee grinder, dehydrator, food processor, juicer... (i hate my dehydrator though....) a couple of you suggested nuts from costco....are their nuts raw? also in regards to this, ive seen alot about nuts being rancid--im not suggesting that costcos are any more than the ones from my coop are--but that anything out of shell is likely to be rancid, particularly walnuts, and that most nuts besides almonds and hazelnuts are steamed to get them out of their shells.,.....? this true? anyone know anything about this? its hard to tell cuz nuts dont actually ""sprout" even if you soak em, and if we're intaking rancid fats, it would be better to not be eating them at all....and yet how many of us can afford to purchase direct from producers (which i assume is much more expensive...?).

as a side note--exurb--re: bike messenger food and fuel: i guess we also had a similar law passed here in the states recently. i tried that argument on my tax guy a couple years ago--that i was powering my bike with food and energy and that car couriers got gas allowance so shouldnt i get food exemption allowance--he said the govt wouldnt buy it. i guess they have now--to a certain extent--but the lady who gave a courier tax seminar suggested somethign like $800 a year might be a reasonable claim....YEAH RIGHT!!! i spend ALOT more than that on food...and i work 8 plus hours a day five days a week. i say about 70% of my food is going directly to power my bike.....and hence to make money...so that i can buy more food...to power my bike.....so i can make more money...ahhhh...what a vicious cycle ;)

[divaitalia]

Where do you get the ora-md? I would like to try it. I tried toothsoap and it was awful. :eek:

[RawTruth]

skipfire -

I have seen David Wolfe and the Boutenkos in recent months. David Wolfe is not chubby, Igor Boutenko is not only not chubby but he can do something like 1,000 pushups and he's in his late 40's. Victoria Boutenko is no longer slender, but she says upfront and in straightforward terms that is because she rarely exercises anymore. Despite that, when both Boutenkos were tested by the medical research team in St. Louis last year, she was shown to have the cardiovascular system of a much younger woman.

I can tell you that if you choose to eat cultured food, you would make it yourself and use probiotics that are purchased. That's how you have "good" bacteria.

The main thing, though, is to just jump in and start eating this way, if you haven't already. You can overintellectualize and end up vacillating forever ... or, until you exhaust yourself and turn back to the cooked food world. I would advise you to go completely raw using Alissa's book and, as you proceed, get your hands on reputable, scientific-based raw books to educate yourself as you proceed further into the living foods lifestyle. By the time you've hit 30 days raw and then 60 day and then 6 months, you'll have your questions answered ... and your own personal experience to back it up. But ... go ahead and start.

p.s. There are numerous thread on this forum about "budget" eating on raw. If you search for them, you'll get some really great hints. I personally (and many others) have found that eating this way is actually cheaper, not more expensive. Just one quick hint -- you do not need to buy coconut oil, agave nectar, nut butters, hemp, maca, or other expensive "raw food" items. You can remain unprocessed, which is always cheaper, and do just fine, if your budget is really tight.

Good luck!!

[oceanluv]

Hmmm, I must be weird, I liked the toothsoap right away. ;)

[kennym02]

Divaitalia, you can order from www.oramd.com.

[rawrevolutionbaby]

I am also new to raw and am looking for any tried and true recipes that y'all can share... especially balanced ones that take into consideration the nutrient needs that newtoraw mentions.Also, I dont have the money to buy all the gadgets yet so I could really use easy recipes
Also, I have noticed the teeth concern in one big raw-guru (jeremy Saffron). But who knows what else he is ingesting or if he is eating too many fruits or what..?

[RawTruth]

.. especially balanced ones that take into consideration the nutrient needs that newtoraw mentions.Whatq "nutrient needs" are you referring to specifically? How much reading have you done so far? What books do you have?

For a start, I suggest you read Alissa's posts in the "Need to know more about raw" section. It is great for answering the basic questions that come up when you're new.

Also, if you don't already have Alissa's book, you must get it right away. It will answer all the questions you have and help you get started solidly and with the greatest chance for success.

Great to have you here. Happy reading (the older posts are wonderful sources of information after the "Need to know ... " section).

[rawrevolutionbaby]

Can you share some starter recipes or even just some basic ingredients needed to experiment with til I get the book and the food processors,tc?

[RawTruth]

Go to Alissa's website (upper left button on this page). When you're on her home page, click on A Raw Food Diet. Then click on Recipes ... voila!!

As far as ingredients go, it can be as simple as going to the store and buying whatever fruits and greens you like. Get a large variety of greens. Add in some flower vegetables if you'd like (broccoli, cauliflower, etc.), some non-sweet fruits: avocados, tomatoes, cucumbers. In the morning eat fruit -- as much as you want. If one banana doesn't fill you up, eat another ... etc. until you're full. Many of us drink green smoothies in the a.m. which are incredibly healthy, satisfying and a great way to get your greens in (40% fruit, 60% greens - see recent posts about it here or at www.rawfamily.com). For lunch, make a huge salad. Squeeze lemon over it or mix up a quick dressing using raw olive oil and some apple cider vinegar or Nama Shoyu (all raw or living ingredients). When you're hungry in the afternoon, eat some more fruit or some celery stalks with almond butter or some other veggies and a few raw nuts. For dinner, pile some chopped up veggies and sprouts onto a giant collard leaf, add some freshly-smashed up guacamole, tomato, cilantro, roll it up and chow down.

In order to make more than this, you'll need a blender and a food processor. But, with Alissa's book in hand, you'll be able to do wonders with just those two appliances. Get the Hamilton Beach $29.99 food processor at Target. Get a blender with a good motor (there are recommendations on this board for that -- I went through several cheesy ones myself), and you're set (you don't need to get a Vita-mix although, if you've an extra $300 lying around, why not!).

Good luck. This board is a great resource.

[amber75]

I am new to raw, and am not ready just yet to purchase a juicer. I have a handy little "magic bullet" mini food processor that does most purees in 10 seconds. I have been making smoothies in it. Can I make vegetable smoothies in it as well? I may be on the wrong thread but I am desperate to get started as my fibromyalgia is ruining my life! Also---any other fibros found positive results with the raw foods diet?

Any replies appreciated.