building bone density?

[NFrawRUNNER]

After my recent unfortunate accident (broken leg) it is evident I need to step up the bone density issues I have had (osteoporosis that I truly feel was getting better after 6 months in to raw veganism)...The "doctors are advising either medications or a change in diet....I don't want either but would love to increase my bone health through my "raw foods"....any pointers??? Thanks!
Diantha :confused:

[twinee1]

Add lots of the dark dark greens to your diet daily. They will provide loads of the minerals you need. Also once healed get that impact cardio in. That is great for the bone density.

[NFrawRUNNER]

Right now I have to take the blood thinner coumadin to avoid DVT's (blood clots)...unfortunately the very foods I thrive on can affect clotting...I need to increase them gradually so they can monitor my levels...have blood work twice per week...fun...but your advice is well taken! Thanks!

[Arky]

Eat foods high in natural silicon - according to David Wolfe, in his book 'Eating for Beauty', silicon is particularly active at sites of bone-healing, where it assists in the laying down of calcium (it is even contended that silicon may transmutate into calcium, although this is contentious). Many of the nightshades have high levels of silicon in their skins, but eating high levels of nightshades is NOT necessarily the best approach, since the alkaloids they contain (also concentrated in the very same areas as the silicon) are known to be associated with joint problems - they apparently inhibit connective tissue formation. Stinging nettles are very high in silicon (but also high in Oxalic acid, so take it easy, if you don't wish to over-tax your kidneys). Radishes are also quite high in silicon.

All of Twinee's advice was excellent. Also, in addition to flooding your body with minerals from dark-green leafies (organic produce has a higher mineral content than non-organic - it's not just a pesticide consideration), it is prudent to cut down on protein if you still consume high levels of protein (this is less likely on a vegan diet, but if you go very heavily on the nuts and beans it's still conceivable).

Alkalinizing your body is also an excellent thing to do, for numerous health reasons, but particularly, in your case, for the fact that it will reduce your body's propensity to draw calcium from your bones in order to neutralize excess acid in the blood. To this end, vegetable juicing is an excellent approach, since it also provides your body with easily-assimilable minerals. Note that consuming high levels of phosphorous and/or sugar will totally undermine any attempts to build calcium reserves, since the body will draw calcium from the bones in order to cope with elevated levels of the aforementioned - it is such an irony that many vegetarians and vegans continue to consume huge quantites of fizzy drinks, while believing, at one and the same time, that they are living healthily simply because they cut out red meat and eat lots of vegetables!


Your retort about foods undermining your blood-thinning meds presumably refers to the Vitamin K content of green leafy vegetables? If so, then do bear in mind that, <PROVIDED you obtain your doctor's blessing!>, consumption of foods such as garlic and Omega 3-high foods will assist in regulation of clotting, and positively reduce the inflammatory effects of certain prostaglandins (foods high in Omega 6 can, under certain circumstances, have the opposite effect, through action on other prostaglandins to increase the inflammatory response).

It is also of VITAL importance to ensure good levels of vitamin D in your body - either through diet or through good exposure to sunshine on a daily basis. Without Vitamin D, your calcium absorption will hit rock-bottom, and sadly, after years of nightshifts, I have come to understand this on a personal level :(

Lastly, you may like to check out Viktor Kulvinskas' all-too-brief, but nonetheless useful, remarks on the subject of osteoporosis, here:

http://www.chidiet.com/news/LivingFoodsNews20050917.htm


J.

[jaurequi]

Weight-bearing exercise builds bones. This would include running, jogging, walking and weightlifting.
You can try calcium supplements (make sure it has some magnesium for absorption).
Sesame seeds have some calcium as well as dark greens, broccoli is great too (make green smoothies, if you can).

Best,

[Arky]

Yes, I have read that the current thinking is that calcium consumption should not be exceeded by magnesium consumption - too little or too much magnesium, in relation to calcium consumption, may reduce the absorption or retention of the calcium.


J.

[Rawkinlocs]

Moderator Comment:

I split and moved the brief dialogue of mushrooms here: http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9561

[NFrawRUNNER]

I have sent my mom to our local health food store with list in hand to purchase many items suggested herein! Thank you for the great advice! :p

[NFrawRUNNER]

Cross your fingers! I had my bone density re-done yesterday....results in a few days. My blood work showed improvements in FSH and LH levels (what does that mean?) and the dr. could not understand why they would be normal when I am post menapausel (at age 39!!!).....estrogen levels still low but we're working on that....hopefully being raw for 9 months has helped the bone density issues.....+ the homeopathic remedies and whole food supplements from "standar process.".....I'll post my results when I know them. Just wondering if anyone else has been through this???? Would like to know if RF has helped anyone else boost bone density. I do NOT want to take medication!!!!
:eek:

[robertandenith]

you could also do this by doing weight training! :)

[veggie]

I've definitely had experience with this one. I had a bone density scan 2 years ago, which revealed bone loss. In order to rebuild, I eat a lot of leafy greens. You can do this in the form of green smoothies as they are easily absorbed that way. Also, I had to put on weight, since I was too thin. If you have that issue also, I would suggest gaining weight with avocados, oils and nuts.

I ditto the weight bearing exercises comments too. Diet and exercise goes hand in hand.
My bone density improved, and I'm hoping the next test will be even better!
Best wishes!

[NFrawRUNNER]

I lift weights 3Xper week,
swim 3X per week,
run 5X per week,
cycle 1-3 X per week
+ do Pilates 1-3 X per week
so I think I'm covered in the weight bearing exercise dept. :)
but thanks for the advice...I really don't enjoy weight lifting. I'm more of a "let's go" kind of person but you are so right...gotta keep the upper body and core strong too!!!
My dr has me on a regimine of "standard Process" whole food supplements as well so let's hope that my osteoporosis/osteopenia has reversed or at least improved. If it has maybe some of my skeptics will believe the whole raw food approach. Not that I care but I am so tired of defending my beliefs!!! :eek:
Di

[NFrawRUNNER]

Thanks veggie.......we must've been typing replies at the same time! You give me hope! I am not really "too thin" but have low body fat (high muscle mass) so thanks for the encouragement....I love my greens and avacados!!!

[Brianna]

Definitely start lifting weights. It's very important for bone density.

[PhoeniX]

Weight training is a very good suggestion. It is also import to drink green drinks. Green drinks are really important because sometimes the body can have difficulty absorbing nutrients from food and green drinks are an easily absorbable form for the body to get nutrients (especially minerals). I have copied this from a previous post I answered:

The basic idea is this:

First, the body protects the lining of the intestines from acid with mucus. Over years of eating cooked foods the mucus lining can become quite thick and rubbery causing nutrient absorbtion to decrease.

Second, when food enters the stomach acid is produced to break it down (this makes the nurtrients available for absorption. When it moves into the intestines bile is produced to neutralize the acid. The body neutralises the acid with minerals. If the body has a shortage of minerals (or certain minerals) it stops producing acid in the stomach, because it doesn't have the resources to neutralise it later on. If it stops the acid production then the food is even less available for nutrient absorption, which means that the body has even less minerals. It becomes a vicious cycle. (the body stores lots of minerals in our bones, so having osteoperosis suggests to me that your body may be using the stored minerals to try to counteract over acidity)

When you separate the nutrients from the food manually (through juicing and/or blending) the food is in a state that allows for much better absorption, which means that the body can start absorbing minerals. As it does this the body will restart the process putting acid into the stomach, restarting a healthier digestive process.

It is really important to be having green drinks every day, especially at the beginning of eating RAW. Actually, even if you are not RAW I think it is really important. So I suggest that you go and buy a cheap juicer and start juicing every day. A good juice to start with is 1/3 cucumber, 1/3 celery, 1/3 apple. Use this as a quite pleasantly sweet tasting base and add whatever other veggies you like. Some cheap juicers I have had will even juice a small amout of leafy greens, which are really good for you as well.

Take care,
J
Edit/Delete Message

[Lunar*Fey]

I also am very very close to osteoperosis, at age 15! Actually I was at age 14 too. It's horrible. My doctor said if it doesn't increase by the time I reach 90 lbs and get another bone density scan then I will have to be put on medicine! I don't want that! I want to do it through natural sources. I think I heard figs are a good source of calcium, is this true? Also poppy seeds and sesame seeds. Reading this post really helped me as well. thank you for posting this. :) and good luck with reversing your bone problems.

[NFrawRUNNER]

[QUOTE=PhoeniX]
...when food enters the stomach acid is produced to break it down (this makes the nurtrients available for absorption. When it moves into the intestines bile is produced to neutralize the acid. The body neutralises the acid with minerals. If the body has a shortage of minerals (or certain minerals) it stops producing acid in the stomach, because it doesn't have the resources to neutralise it later on. If it stops the acid production then the food is even less available for nutrient absorption, which means that the body has even less minerals. It becomes a vicious cycle. (the body stores lots of minerals in our bones, so having osteoperosis suggests to me that your body may be using the stored minerals to try to counteract over acidity)

When you separate the nutrients from the food manually (through juicing and/or blending) the food is in a state that allows for much better absorption, which means that the body can start absorbing minerals. As it does this the body will restart the process putting acid into the stomach, restarting a healthier digestive process.[/SIZE]

Thanks Phoenix...Interestingly, I was also diagnosed with IBS about a year ago too.....so I am wondering if the IBS and "early menapause" gave me the double whammy robbing my body of calcium, etc... leading to the osteoporosis???

I have been high raw for almost 10 months now, drink green drinks daily, etc... so I'm hoping that it's been enough to rebuild some bone density...I have been having more intestinal/bowel issues lately though and am not sure what to do about it. Do you think probiotics or food enzymes (as if raw food isn't enough???) would help? My ultimate goal is to use only foods to cure any ailments but if malabsorption is a problem I guess that needs to be addressed....I don't know, it's like the more you know the worse it is..Sometimes I think I was better off being ignorant and eating SAD (Sorry, just having a down day because I don't feel well)......thanks for listening

[karenisraw]

Hi All,

I read in an article in vegeterian magazine that was positive regarding raw foodist bones. It was just a small article but basically it said there was a study done that showed that raw vegan people's bones were although thinner than typically, that they showed no bone loss. Are thin bones all right? The article did not seem to think there was anything wrong with thinner bones. That is the impression that I got.

k

[Brianna]

Leafy greens, almonds, sesame seeds (unhulled) and figs are good sources of calcium. So are olives. But even more important that that, you MUST lift weights or do some sort of weight bearing exercise to strengthen the bones. Weight lifting doesn't only build muscle; it builds bone.

[luckitri]

I know this thread is old but I hope that you get this. I had full blown osteoporosis. It was partially disease induced. I had to take steroids every day for years just to stay alive. The steroids eat your bones as well. I applied this cream to my skin where the veins show and on my face. It is called "EssProL'eve". I get it from a place called International Health in Scottsdale, AZ. On the container is a phone number (800) 481-9987. There is also a web address - nopms@doitnow.com

Not only did the steroids stop eating my bones - this cream REVERSED my bone loss and I actually gained bone mass while on the steroids! After several years of using this product I OFFICIALLY NO LONGER HAVE OSTEOPOROSIS!

[startootsie]

I know this thread is old but I hope that you get this. I had full blown osteoporosis. It was partially disease induced. I had to take steroids every day for years just to stay alive. The steroids eat your bones as well. I applied this cream to my skin where the veins show and on my face. It is called "EssProL'eve". I get it from a place called International Health in Scottsdale, AZ. On the container is a phone number (800) 481-9987. There is also a web address - nopms@doitnow.com

Not only did the steroids stop eating my bones - this cream REVERSED my bone loss and I actually gained bone mass while on the steroids! After several years of using this product I OFFICIALLY NO LONGER HAVE OSTEOPOROSIS!


What does it mean when your veins show? Cause I got some veiny arms!

Please let me know if you know what this may be from, cause I have been trying to figure why I have these veins!

[luckitri]

sorry I should be more clear. The goal is absorption of the cream so you want to put it where your veins show through. I used to be skinny so I had alot of veins showing plus I am thin-skinned. (Even as a kid I was told that it was ugly to watch me eat cause you can see the veins in my face and now I am grown and the kids still tell me that.) Now that I am fat I put it on the veins on the top of my feet - any leg veins that show - inner arms by wrist - back of hands where veins show - like that. Now that I am in the clear I still use it but I don't have to find places to put it because I don't need as much. One thing that really helped me stay off the medicines (besides the fact that they tear up my stomach) was remembering that normal bone will not be composed of that medicine - normal bone is built with nutrients and hormones. The cream provides the hormones from a natural source (wild yam). I know that not all wild yam cream is alike or effective. This one worked for me wonderfully. There are many other healing success stories with this cream - if you contact them they will tell you.

[startootsie]

Thank you!

[Pierre]

Cross your fingers! I had my bone density re-done yesterday....results in a few days. My blood work showed improvements in FSH and LH levels (what does that mean?)
Follicle stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone are hormones pertaining to the development of eggs. What they have to do with bones, I don't know.

[NFrawRUNNER]

Follicle stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone are hormones pertaining to the development of eggs. What they have to do with bones, I don't know.
Well, low estrogen levels leads to calcium leeching from your bones....so fsh and lh levels must ultimately affect your bones???? I just reread this thread I started back in May. I can say I did (just) start on enzyme therapy and "ionicfizz' calcium so it's readily absorbed. I can honestly say my bones aren't aching anymore but don't and won't know if it's changing my levels for another 10 months or so...Meanwhile, I feel great and am back to running, biking, etcc as strong as ever so something is working right ;)

[Lunar*Fey]

Dianthia,
Can you give me an example of what you have been doing for your bones. Like maybe even including what you eat in a day? Sorry if that is rude, but I am curious and in need of some help in this area...also I am afraid that eating as much sugar as I do might take away from my bones rebuilding...

(by the way, my email filled up and I just found your email again...thank you so much!! I have to go back through and read the links more thoroughly :) )

[NFrawRUNNER]

Dianthia,
Can you give me an example of what you have been doing for your bones. Like maybe even including what you eat in a day? Sorry if that is rude, but I am curious and in need of some help in this area...also I am afraid that eating as much sugar as I do might take away from my bones rebuilding...

(by the way, my email filled up and I just found your email again...thank you so much!! I have to go back through and read the links more thoroughly :) )
For one thing, I started enzyme therapy and it seems to be helping. and I started taking "calcium ionic fizz" to ensure I am getting more than enough calcium at the ionic level which is the most bioavailable form for your body to absorb. Of course, you already know I exercise and I avoid things that "leech" calcium.....coffee, soda, sugar, processed food...My bones have stopped aching at the hip joints...I really think the enzymes are important. What is the sense of PERFECT FOOD and nutrition if your body isn't absorbing the nutrients! E-mail me and I'll give you more info. on that. Good luck!
;) Di

[Lunar*Fey]

Thanks Di, I actually just emailed you before I read this lol. What is calcium ionic fizz?

[dreamrawalwz]

Right now I have to take the blood thinner coumadin to avoid DVT's (blood clots)...unfortunately the very foods I thrive on can affect clotting...I need to increase them gradually so they can monitor my levels...have blood work twice per week...fun...but your advice is well taken! Thanks!

Not sure if this has been said, but here's a thought. When they put you on coumadin they say not to take vitamin K. Why do you think that is? It's because vitamin K thins the blood. So why not knock the coumadin and do natural vitamin K? Just a thought! This is waht my mom has told me, so it may not be correct haha.

[NFrawRUNNER]

Actually coumadin thins the blood and vitamin K thickens the blood thus apparently canceling each other out....so what I did was research what fruits THIN the blood and discovered cantaloupe is one such fruit....so do you know what I did? I started eating cantaloupe like crazy and stopped taking the coumadin....when they tested my blood it was fine and they told me I could stop taking it!!! HEHEHE I already had! That was back in January! .....aaahhh a lifetime ago! Hard to believe it's been 9 months since I broke my leg...that was a nightmare but raw food sure helped me recover faster than expected!!!!

[dreamrawalwz]

Actually coumadin thins the blood and vitamin K thickens the blood thus apparently canceling each other out....so what I did was research what fruits THIN the blood and discovered cantaloupe is one such fruit....so do you know what I did? I started eating cantaloupe like crazy and stopped taking the coumadin....when they tested my blood it was fine and they told me I could stop taking it!!! HEHEHE I already had! That was back in January! .....aaahhh a lifetime ago! Hard to believe it's been 9 months since I broke my leg...that was a nightmare but raw food sure helped me recover faster than expected!!!!

Haha I guess I got it backwards! Oh well, I knew it had soemthing to do with blood thickness lol. Good job at the cantaloupe!

[Lay-Lay]

so glad to hear it is doing better.

[Lunar*Fey]

I found this website, it was very informational

http://www.nohypehealth.org/osteop.html

very good things to know for healthy bones :)

[NFrawRUNNER]

Lunarfey-the website looks very informative! Thanks I just printed the 21 pages off! I really think the enzymes are helping me the best right now...that and the calcium + whole foods v/m supplements....and I have been following 8-1-1 for almost 2 weeks and it is making a difference! I have a physical next week so I am going to ask for the "blood test" that is more indicative of BMD than the dexa scan....According to what I read from the link you posted the scan doesn't necessarily measure bone strength and I already had read that raw vegans have lower BMD but stronger bones so I am going to have a long chat with this new doc. and hope she is open to "my way of life." I'm in it for life now and need to have a dr. that is on board with it !!!