Green For Life- a few things that don't add up

[Sunshine9]

Green For LifeÂ… a few things that donÂ’t add up for me

Let me preface this by saying that I recently read “Green for Life” by Victoria Boutenko and I thought it was excellent. I love the concept of green smoothies, and I have been enjoying including them in my diet for some time. I thought the book was enjoyable, well written, and very logical. I didn’t find all of the research in the book to be very sound though, so I thought I would type up the issues I immediately caught for discussion. I would love to read what others thought of these points in the book. Having read it is not necessary for all of the questions, though likely helpful. All opinions welcome!

Lets discuss.

• Victoria claims almonds are alkaline (page 82), yet according to Sapoty’s CaPNaK chart almonds, similar to all nuts, are acid-forming due to their strong phosphorous residue.
o This is the principle of the issue, because if she printed this based on facts that she read, what other facts are incorrect?

• How exactly does the Roseburg study show the effect of green smoothies on HCl, if all of the participants were supplementing with HCl capsules the whole time?

• I thought the point for green smoothies being superior to green juices was lacking. One of the main benefits of juice is that it requires next to no digestion and can be absorbed and assimilated immediately into the bloodstream while allowing the digestive system to rest. If one already has poor or compromised digestion, wouldn’t juices be superior to smoothies? Victoria states that she would only drink greens juice every few days and that is was a way to “cheat” and get enough greens, while obviously that isn’t often enough to see results. I understand the fiber argument, and I think it is excellent, though I don’t think that raw-foodists are lacking in fiber.

o My personal opinion is that both the smoothies and green juices are excellent, and will provide different results. And that one is not superior to the other.

• In the chapter “The Wisdom of Plants” Victoria talks about the problems with hybrid (seedless) plants. She says on page 100, “I am sure that it is not healthy to eat seedless plants, because their entire chemistry, electromagnetic charge, and who knows what else has been altered.” However, in this chapter she makes no mention to bananas, one of the most obvious hybrid and seedless fruits and makes significant use of them in the recipes section. Was this convenience, because green smoothies aren’t as tasty without the bananas?


Let us engage in a pleasant and intelligent discussion :)

[tracyinfo]

Green For LifeÂ… a few things that donÂ’t add up for me


• In the chapter “The Wisdom of Plants” Victoria talks about the problems with hybrid (seedless) plants. She says on page 100, “I am sure that it is not healthy to eat seedless plants, because their entire chemistry, electromagnetic charge, and who knows what else has been altered.” However, in this chapter she makes no mention to bananas, one of the most obvious hybrid and seedless fruits and makes significant use of them in the recipes section. Was this convenience, because green smoothies aren’t as tasty without the bananas?


Let us engage in a pleasant and intelligent discussion :)

All of the bananas I eat and buy have seeds in them! I have never seen a banana without seeds. Is it because I only buy organically grown bananas?

Blessings.

[Sillybloss]

Based on what I've read, all bananas commercially available (including organic and farmer's markets) are the hybrid type. The seeds in a natural banana (non-hybrid type) are much larger....large enough that you'd want to spit them out, like apple seeds. Therefore, they hybrid-ized the banana so the pesky seeds are small enough to not be trouble-some.

Also, my understanding is that a natural banana has very little sweetness to it. I don't know of any source for natural bananas. I believe they've all been replaced with the hybrid-ized type that humans prefer.

[misslinda]

about the almonds..I've raad another site that offers info on acid and alkaline foods

almonds were considered alkaline. some foods become alkaline when made contact with saliva according to one list I have.

I'm not realy crazy about the water addition to the smoothies that are in the recipe

I have read the book yet only what I have gathered from the posts.

[Revvell]

• Victoria claims almonds are alkaline (page 82), yet according to Sapoty’s CaPNaK chart almonds, similar to all nuts, are acid-forming due to their strong phosphorous residue.

On this chart, almonds are alkaline:http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html

Also, since almonds are usually soaked before eating the alkalinizing effects are enhanced: http://au.health.yahoo.com/041101/25/1uk5.html?r=967673075



o This is the principle of the issue, because if she printed this based on facts that she read, what other facts are incorrect?

If it's indeed incorrect, then it's not fact.

Revvell

[wyjoz]

Dear Joz,

Would you please post my answers? Please keep in mind that I am not sure I would be able to answer again in the future, as I am getting busier.
Love,
Victoria
Green For LifeÂ… a few things that donÂ’t add up for me

Let me preface this by saying that I recently read “Green for Life” by Victoria Boutenko and I thought it was excellent. I love the concept of green smoothies, and I have been enjoying including them in my diet for some time. I thought the book was enjoyable, well written, and very logical. I didn’t find all of the research in the book to be very sound though, so I thought I would type up the issues I immediately caught for discussion. I would love to read what others thought of these points in the book. Having read it is not necessary for all of the questions, though likely helpful. All opinions welcome!

Lets discuss.

• Victoria claims almonds are alkaline (page 82), yet according to Sapoty’s CaPNaK chart almonds, similar to all nuts, are acid-forming due to their strong phosphorous residue.
o This is the principle of the issue, because if she printed this based on facts that she read, what other facts are incorrect?

According to my research, there are many conflicting reports about pH, due to lack of sufficient research. I decided to stick to one source that I referenced in my bibliography: The pH Miracle, by Robert O. Young and Shelly Redford Young. In this book on page 73 there is a table that lists walnuts as being -8.0 acidic and almonds as being +3.6 alkaline.

-Victoria

• How exactly does the Roseburg study show the effect of green smoothies on HCl, if all of the participants were supplementing with HCl capsules the whole time?

Let me clarify that the participants of the Roseburg study had not been recommended to take any more HCl than they had already been taking for many years, since they were previously diagnosed with achlorhydria (lack of stomach acid) and had been taking HCl pills for prolonged periods of time with their meals and snacks. Dr. Fieber was also using HCl pills for testing their level of acidity in the stomach during four meals prior to the experiment and during four meals after the experiment. It was interesting to observe that as people in the study group were drinking green smoothies, they reported that their digestion was improving, and by the end of the month, many participants did not need to take HCl pills with most of their meals. After the experiment, Dr. Fieber was able to take several of these people off HCl pills completely, which is amazing!

-Victoria

• I thought the point for green smoothies being superior to green juices was lacking. One of the main benefits of juice is that it requires next to no digestion and can be absorbed and assimilated immediately into the bloodstream while allowing the digestive system to rest. If one already has poor or compromised digestion, wouldn’t juices be superior to smoothies? Victoria states that she would only drink greens juice every few days and that is was a way to “cheat” and get enough greens, while obviously that isn’t often enough to see results. I understand the fiber argument, and I think it is excellent, though I don’t think that raw-foodists are lacking in fiber.

o My personal opinion is that both the smoothies and green juices are excellent, and will provide different results. And that one is not superior to the other.

I believe that juices are fractured foods, food that is missing essential components—fiber. I believe that when we consume enough fiber, we take a load off our organism by dramatically improving our elimination. Toxins build up in the colon. Fiber cleans them out. When most toxins have been removed by fiber, then the body has a greater ability to absorb nutrients, thus improving digestion. There are many more important benefits of having fiber. For example, in my latest newsletter, I cited research about good bacteria needing raw fiber from fruits and vegetables in our guts to be able to survive. These bacteria are linked to B complex vitamins, a very important issue. Juices are not a complete food; humans could not live on juices alone. Very often juices have unbalanced amounts of sugar. Contrary to that, green smoothies are a complete food. Also, I have met people who went on prolonged juice fasts and saw no improvement in their hydrochloric acid.
-Victoria

• In the chapter “The Wisdom of Plants” Victoria talks about the problems with hybrid (seedless) plants. She says on page 100, “I am sure that it is not healthy to eat seedless plants, because their entire chemistry, electromagnetic charge, and who knows what else has been altered.” However, in this chapter she makes no mention to bananas, one of the most obvious hybrid and seedless fruits and makes significant use of them in the recipes section. Was this convenience, because green smoothies aren’t as tasty without the bananas?

Of course seeded bananas would be the best, I love them, but realistically they are no longer available. If there were no more seeded watermelons available, I would still promote watermelons, because thatÂ’s all we would have.
-Victoria Let us engage in a pleasant and intelligent discussion

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9158

[Sunshine9]

Well that really cleared all of my questions up...Joz if you could pass on my deepest gratitude and thanks to Victoria, I would appreciate it! Hope others found the answers interesting too. :) Happy new year!

[twinee1]

On this chart, almonds are alkaline:http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html

Also, since almonds are usually soaked before eating the alkalinizing effects are enhanced: http://au.health.yahoo.com/041101/25/1uk5.html?r=967673075



If it's indeed incorrect, then it's not fact.

Revvell


It is odd that at the site www.thewolfeclinic.com, the Almonds are under Protein Section and Nuts are the last item on the Protein List. The on the other hand the Nuts (not Almonds ) are on the Acid list under Nuts and Butters !!

ACID - NUTS & BUTTERS
Cashews
Brazil Nuts
Peanuts
Peanut Butter
Pecans
Tahini
Walnuts

[misslinda]

Acid-forming and acid-ash, alkaline-ash foods


Another way to talk about food acidity is not to measure the acidity of the food itself, but the body’s acidity once the food has been eaten. In other words, from this second perspective, a food is not labeled as “acidic,” but instead as “acid-forming.”

Similar to this “acid-forming” concept is the “acid-ash, alkaline-ash” concept, in which a food is not chemically broken down in the body, but instead burned, leaving an ash residue, which is then measured for its mineral content. Acid-ash foods are foods that leave high concentrations of chloride, phosphorus, or sulfur in their ash. These foods are called “acid-ash” because chloride, phosphorus, and sulfur are minerals that are used to make acids in the body (namely, hydrochloric acid, phosphoric acid, and sulfuric acid). Alkaline-ash foods are foods that leave high concentrations of magnesium calcium, and potassium in their ash. These foods are called “alkaline-ash” because these minerals are used to form alkaline compounds (called bases) in the body (including magnesium hydroxide, calcium hydroxide, and potassium hydroxide).

The acid-ash model of measuring food acidity is not, of course, what happens inside a living person. We don’t burn our food, and ash is not all that’s left after we eat. In fact, the whole concept of acid-forming foods is a much more complicated idea than the pH idea, since “acid-forming” is process that happens inside a living body.

How well a food is digested, for example, can influence the degree to which it is acid-forming or not. Many foods, including tomatoes, have preformed acids in their composition that would normally be altered during digestion. However, in a person with problematic digestion, these acids might not get transformed, and the acid-forming properties of the tomato would be increased.

Research on the acid-forming and acid-ash, alkaline-ash foods principle
Although there are many popular diets that revolve around the principle of acid-forming foods, there are virtually no research studies that have focused on this issue. A survey about dietary patterns and lifestyles carried out in China in the early 1990Â’s has shown that higher intake of animal foods and animal-derived proteins results in increased loss of calcium and acids in the urine, while increased intake of plant foods and plant proteins results in lower calcium and acid loss. Presumably, the loss of acids in the urine reflected increased formation of acids in the body that needed to be excreted, and decreased urine acids reflected less formation of acids in the body. Vegetables were one of the major groups of plant foods focused on in the study, and vegetables are a group of food that have been described in many alternative dietary approaches as being non-acid-forming.

List of alkaline foods
You asked us where to find a list of alkaline foods, and according to this second way of looking at alkalinity and acidity, you can find lists at the following websites:

http://www.naturalhealthschool.com/acid-alkaline.html

[RawTruth]

What a great and complete response from Victoria. Thanks, Joz, for writing her. I notice there's no more discussion here. Does that mean that you're satisfied with her answers?

[wyjoz]

We all have questions about pH too acid not alkaline enough. Here is a very good article http://www.relfe.com/health_natural/pH_human_body_balance_health_level_1.html

and a second one that I'm rereading 2nd time is
http://www.naturalhealthschool.com/acid-alkaline.html

and the best of the best is: How You Rot & Rust http://biomedx.com/microscopes/rrintro/rrintro.html
Hope this helps.

[jaurequi]

Does anyone know what Boutenko's current recommendation for daily smoothie consumption? Last I remember it was 64 ounces; is that correct?

[wyjoz]

I asked Victoria the last question by 'jaurequi' I promised her that that was the last time I would question her; here is her reply;
Dear Joz,

I donÂ’t mind answering questions when I have time. Today was good for that as I was surprised to discover that it is a holiday.

In the second edition of my book Green for Life, that will be printed in January, I will make a couple of corrections. One of them is about the recommended quantity of regular green smoothie consumption. Here it is briefly, not edited yet:

Last year, when I had just started experimenting with green smoothies, I figured out that 40% of my diet was supposed to be greens. I calculated that that equaled two bunches of greens a day. I attempted to drink smoothies containing two bunches of greens each day, which amounted to two gallons of green smoothie per day. I followed that regimen for three or four months and felt ecstatic. But after about three months I noticed that I simply cannot consume that much green smoothie. I felt less excited about them and I noticed I had to force myself to drink it. Naturally and gradually I reduced this amount to half a gallon, or 64 oz., every day. I believe there are two reasons for this:

1) Blended greens are assimilated more completely by the body, I donÂ’t have exact numbers yet but I guess that drinking half a gallon of green smoothie is equal to eating two bunches of greens a day by chewing, without oil. (If you eat it in a salad, you need to eat more, because oil slows down the digestion. Hence, by just eating greens in salad you can never get enough.)

2) Some people have noticed that they consume larger amounts of green smoothie when they start drinking them regularly, and later, reduce the consumption to half or less. I believe that happens because drinking smoothie improves the overall digestion and assimilation. Also, after drinking smoothies for a while, we saturate our body with nutrients that we have been lacking for a long time.

Tonya gave me permission to include her Green Pudding in my second edition. My family already came up with a couple of new combinations by adding bananas, blueberries and raspberries.

We like to have green pudding in the middle of the day, when we crave heavier food, and to have more liquid smoothie upon arising in the morning. I think that both versions are good. The more variety we can have, the better.

Please post my answer to the forum. Thank you!

Sincerely,
Victoria

[RawRobin]

Oh no! I just ordered "Green for Life" from Amazon. I guess that means I will be missing out on the corrections to the first edition and that yummy sounding green pudding recipe in the second edition! Darn!

RawRobin

[RawTruth]

I had the green "pudding" when Tonya talked locally last month. It's just mango and swiss chard in a VitaMix -- no water, no other ingredients. Fresh not frozen mango and chopped up swiss chard. It's thick enough to eat with a spoon. It's quite luscious but it's near impossible to do without a Vitamix since there's no water.

[sport]

I would like everyone's (well some anyway) opinion on the fact that when I make smoothies for my husband I add Udo's Oil and ground flaxseeds. If I do not put them in his smoothie then he is not going to get these items in his diet. As a result of Victoria's reply I have to decide if the benifits of the oils outway the fact that they negate some of the benifits of the greens. What do you think.
I do not add oils to me own smoothie as I get a lot of flax from my crackers.

[jaurequi]

Thank you, wyjoz. And thank you, Victoria, for responding and for your generosity in sharing information. Your green smoothies got me to the highest degree of health I've ever been. I'm not sure what "two bunches" quantifies, and I think I consume much more than that; but I won't be worrying about overconsumption of greens anytime soon :). I also experience the fluctuations in desire for smoothies, and, while they are a daily part of my diet, I'm sure I get what I need when I consume a bit less from time to time and more other times.


sport, I would consume the oil with the greens if that's the only way to get them. I have read that the best way to consume e.f.a.'s is with greens. If you're worried, perhaps just increase his green smoothie intake? Or perhaps just divide his current amount into two servings: have him consume one with the flax and oil at one time of day and the second another time of day without the flax and oil.
Also, she may be referring to chewing greens; in other words,if you are taking your greens by chewing and using fat, the fat will satiate you sooner than if you don't chew; thereby consuming less greens overall. I don't think she's suggesting that fat with greens makes the greens less available per se,only that you may consume less and therefore less benefit. If it's with a smoothie, I don't think one would consumes less...and I don't think it negates the effects of the greens -- I don't think that's what Victoria is saying.

[tvillemom]

Boy, this is alot of info. I think I get at least 2 bunches of greens in one smoothie. I guess that would depend on what you call a bunch? (a handful?) My smoothies have the blender crammed full, about 5-6 cups. I think that for right now, that is sufficient. I can't imagine drinking a gallon of smoothie per day, just too much for me. To each his own!
Wendi

[wyjoz]

The Green Smoothie recipe; it's posted here several times and it's in Ode to Smoothies:

2 bunch of 'greens' = Kale, chard, dendelions, red chard, lambs quarters =
2 ripe mangos
2 ripe banannas
32 oz of water

***i use less water*** I like mine thicker
Hope this helps

a BUNCH is how it's sold in stores, usually with a twisty or a rubber band around it.

[wyjoz]

Tonya Zavasta writes "you can never have too much Kale"

KALE GUACAMOLE

3 leaves of Lacinato* Kale
2 avocado
1 clove of garlic
2 tablespoons of lemon juice
1/2 cup of fresh parsley
Braggs Liquid Amino Acids or Celtic Salt to taste.


Place all the ingredients into the food processor and mix until smooth.
Serve on crackers.
You can never eat too much kale! Enjoy!

Kale's attractive greenery packs over ten times the vitamin A as the same amount of iceberg lettuce, has more vitamin C per weight than orange juice, and provides more calcium than equivalent amounts of cow's milk. Kale’s concentrated beta-carotene content is an excellent source of vitamin A. Both vitamin A and beta-carotene are important vision nutrients. A cup of kale provides 15.4% of the day's needs for manganese. Kale also contains calcium, one of the nutrients needed to make healthy bones.–from new book

–from new book "Beautiful On Raw" http://www.beautifulonraw.com/html/showNewsLetter.php

[girl007]

All those recipes in Victorias book? Green for Life?
Do most book stores carry it?

[wyjoz]

Green Smoothie is from Victoria's www.rawfamily.com newsletter.

and the Kale Guacamole is from –from new book "Beautiful On Raw" http://www.beautifulonraw.com/html/showNewsLetter.php

You can order their books from their links.