What is necessary?

[Over40]

Hello All,

First, as I post this, I hope no one thinks that I do this as a reflection on this website or its sponsors, this is not the case.

I will keep all "Accusants" anonymous as I "think outloud" here.

Let me get straight to it. I juice, and eat raw, as often as possible, which is a lot less then I should be doing, but probably more than most. As I peruse the "net" and have done so over the last few years, I have seen the raw movement grow, thanks in large part to the information that is available on the "net".

But what I have also seen grow are products being sold, with slogans touting their super duper effects on the human body. I bought a $60 bottle of a super food once. The stuff tasted so bad I couldn't eat, drink or take anything with it. Bottom line, it was a waste of money...

I guess my observation is, is that to be raw and according to some, "to do it right", it seems as if a person needs to spend a large amount of money on raw cocoa nibs, hemp proteins, wild berries from Katmandu (I type this somewhat jokingly), etc. There also seems to be a fear propoganda building up around these products that if you don't use them the four horsemen of the Apocolypse will arrive in your home and suck the life force right out of you... :eek:

Now I have felt for many years now that raw is where it's at, I discovered this through the Norm Walker books, and have continued reading, etc. on the subject. I also know that I am "weak" and would need a 30 day retreat away from all that the world offers to do the 30 day challenge.

So, that's my thought on teh whole raw subject, I guess it just boils down to, "Why does it have to be so difficult?".

Jon

[Doe]

Jon, I feel the same way. I've been trying more than 5 years to increase my raw intake. It's hard to live in the house with cooked food, go places with friends, and visit relatives, and not eat it. A 30 day retreat would be nice, I can't afford 3 days.

What do we need?

air
clean water
sunshine
fresh raw fruit, vegetables, nuts, and seeds
enough quality sleep
upbuilding relationships
satisfactory answers to questions like who are we, and why are we here
shelter from the weather

We really do not need the things the media pushes at us. The necessities of life are really very few.

Welcome to our group. Hope you find the support you need,
Teri S

[RawTruth]

Jon --

Actually, I think the raw movement is growing and thriving despite the information available on the internet -- which can be unreliable and not necessarily representative of the majority of successful, long-term raw foodists.

There are plenty of us who do not use any "super" products or supplements and who eat whole, ripe, organic vegetables and fruits, seeds, and nuts. Period. That's it. Oh -- well, 'course an occasional raw gourmet dish that uses Celtic sea salt or Nama Shoyu, herbs, spices.

The only "sponsor" of this website is Alissa Cohen. If you were to buy her book (silly me - you might already have it), you would read that she eats like I've described in the paragraph above and advocates just that approach to living on live foods. Plus, she's devised a simple plan that makes it incredibly easy to clear out your cupboards, restock with the raw staples (not a single cacao nib, goji berry, or green powder in there!), and follow her recipes for 4 weeks. By then, people feel so great -- and are so adept at preparing raw dishes -- that it's often not a problem to remain raw. This worked for me ... and for bunches of other people (most of whom don't post much here since they don't need lots of support anymore -- or who never used this forum to begin with). No retreat needed; just skills, strategies, and success at living raw in your own realistic environment instead of somewhere "ideal." (I know a number of people who did great at a 3-week raw healing retreat but who were lost once they'd returned home and soon fell off.)

I've attended lots of lectures and read the books - I tend to listen more to those people who have nothing more than a book to sell and who are happy to answer questions for people who don't even have their book: Alissa, Victoria Boutenko, Tonya Zavasta. They all say it's simple really.

Besides, I just don't think that most people are so gullible that they truly believe that humans were meant to live on only cacao beans (!!) or goji berries (!!!) or ... whatever the next thing is that someone will think they can make big bucks by marketing.

Doe -- I like your list. I'd only add:

love
calm, peaceful surroundings
positive outlook

[Over40]

Actually I have bought Alissa's book, now that volleyball season is over (anyone want to take a team over for me?), and things are back to mostly normal, I plan on getting to it.

In the past, when I was raw, I just picked things up at the local store and went with that. I am just amazed though, not with anything at this site, the prevelance of scare tactics being used by other rawists.

By the way, how did you know I was refering to goji berries??? ;) And Cocoa nibs, I thought I was eating dirt.

Jon

[rawpriestess]

I've been eating raw for over 5 years now, and I haven't bought one of those things, except I did buy 1/2 pound of cacao nubs, for very little at our co-op.

But Iv'e never eaten any packaged products that were bought off the net, I've only bought a few books off the net, but mostly from Amazon, except Alissa's I bought from her website with the DVD.

I've never even tried these other things.

so, I don't think it needs to be difficult at all,
In fact, I am gettng rid of most of my appliances in the next year, as we downsize to move to our island.

i will be buying a hand crank blender, and that's about it, I will use knives, but mostly we'll just eat like we do now, out of the garden.

Life can be so free and easy, and simple and elegant, by allowing ourselves to live the way the God/dess intended.

I think having all these tools were wonderful in the beginning, while I was transitioning, but now, I mostly eat just fruits and veggies plain.

occasionally a gourmet recipe, but not even every week anymore.

So, I think as we progress on our raw path, we tend to release some of that gourmet stuff and the gadgets that make it more fun and interesting, as we continue back to the garden, as I like to call it.

However, I have no challenge with people making money at something they think is a great product, who am I to say it isn't? it just isn't for me, that's what I know.

I may love goji berries, but I'll probably never try them, because they aren't fresh where I am now.

[Revvell]

Hi Jon,

Like others who have posted, I don't feel any of that stuff is needed. I've "tried" the cacao and goji and a few other things, out of curiousity yet, for me, eating what's fresh, available, organic as much as possible and in season as much as possible is good enough for me.

Revvell

[twinee1]

I will chime in and say I agree simple is best. I have a few beautiful cookbooks. I rarely make a goumet dish but I have been able to glean some ideas for complimenting spices and foods in my simple salads.

When I first went raw I did buy some packaged food, transitioning, and that was helpful to me. I loved the Essence and Manna bread and it got me interested in the fact that I actually prefered everything raw ! I still on occassion will buy prepared item but it is rare. If I want crackers I prefer to make my own.

I do like cacao, I admit it, in my raw hemp bars....and I buy it from time to time. Gogi berries I do not like at all, fresh berries are so much better.

[LeanGreenMachine]

Hey Jon!

I'm pretty new to the raw food way of eating but I have to tell you, I love it. I've never felt better, and believe me when I say most of us on this board have probably read over 50-100 books on diet, nutrition and exercise before we found a way of eating that feels good.

The ONLY special thing I buy to eat raw is organic instead of regular fruits and veggies, as much as I can. The extras are up to you. They are not necessary. I've never tried hemp powder, goji berries, cacao, etc. and I probably never will.

All I know is that after a full week eating raw, I dropped 6 pounds, felt so good, didn't have cravings for the junk and actually had the energy to exercise!

Just my two cents!

PS...everyone, I'm just new to this but I plan to post my before and after pictures at the end of 2006. I know it seems a long way off but I really want to be another success story along with you all so that other newbies at that time can see that raw is the way to go! Thanks for all your support so far.

[lily]

As another newbie to this site -- and to serious raw (though I've always eaten 'high raw'), i do agree and find this discussion so reassuring.

For me one of the joys of eating raw is the simplicity and the naturalness of it. I do hope 'big business' doesn't get hold of it and distort it.

Having said that, I must say I'm really enjoying experimenting with raw dishes in my oven which I'm using as a dehydrator since I've found it will keep a constant 100 deg temp on the lowest setting.

Today I made my first pizza, have just had it for lunch and it was to die for! (A hibrid recipe -- Juliano's bread topped with Alissa's tomato sauce and macademia cheese, all recipes loosely followed a la Lily...)

Lily

[Ariannah]

I've tried some of the exotic "superfoods", but to consume them regularly would take more of my money than I'm willing to part with.

For me, "just make it raw" works. Simply fruits, nuts, greens for me, and whatever's available. If something isn't available and I have to "special order" it, then I don't want it, nor do I feel I need it.

Food is basic.

[sweetgoddess]

Jon, what a great post. This really made me chuckle:
"if you don't use them the four horsemen of the Apocolypse will arrive in your home and suck the life force right out of you... :eek: " haha!

I have never found it logical that humans were intended to scurry all over the vast globe to secure hard to find food items in order to have optimal health. Especially considering how long mass transportation has been around. Imagine, on a donkey or horse, it would have taken an entire lifetime, ha.
(goji beries, cacao nibs etc)

Would we rather trust the Earth or a scientist/lab for our food?
(powders or potions)
Of course there is a benefit to some of these things, but that does not equal neccessity by any means.

Every raw "teacher" is different. They each have had a different experience and hold a different truth. It is up to each of us to find our own personal truth as well.

Alissa's message is different. It is simple and doable. It is given with a breathtaking genuine heart of love. And that is why I choose to spread her philosophy.
And so to is this forum different.

I guess it all comes down to this:
One raw "teacher" took cacao nibs and felt their cells tingle and their heart pound and thought "wow, that just woke all my cells up and made me feel good. Must be healthy!" while another takes it and says " ick! I dont like how this makes my heart race, and how it makes me feel. I can feel an unatural stimulating effect. Cant be healthy!"
We all see with different eyes. Thank gracious. ;)

And so the only thing to believe is our inner guidance. yeah!

"I also know that I am "weak" and would need a 30 day retreat away from all that the world offers to do the 30 day challenge."
This is not a true statement, to me. Have you ever heard the expression "argue hard enough for your limitations, and sure enough they are yours?"
You just need a retreat from your beliefs! It is sometimes difficult to change a behaviour without changing a sponsoring belief first.
There are a lot of us here who tried the Challenge many times!
Persistence paid off and it will for you also if you just keep at it. Try it a different way each time. It grows. Each time you try, you will have a new experience, which will form a new truth for you.

You have Alissa's book and DVD to help you, you have this forum and us to help you, you have tons of other places on the net to help you. All you need is you now! You can do it. Its all about belief.

Many Blessings~
Carmel

[tvillemom]

I AM NOT WILLING TO BUY ALL THE PRODUCTS! I think that God made food just the way we need to have it....no powders, or superfoods....if I eat plenty of my fruits, veggies, and seeds, good health will come to me! That's my philosophy! Great posts here, and I think alot of the people on this site agree that simple is best!
Wendi

[ReneeSC]

Though its already been brought to our collective attention that "some" folks here only prefer to be coached or spoken to by 100 percent raw persons; which, hey, is their perogative, I thought I'd offer in my own rather opinionated, and yet alternative experience. FWIW, of course. ( no one need tell me how stupid it is, either.. lol )

We do use superfoods here in our home. We were sick enough that we needed them. In all honesty, they've helped keep me as raw as I am and have been. The natural "bugs" and enzymes have helped cure some rather frightening ailments around here, and.. frankly, MSM ROCKS. ( opinion, of course - I don't sell anything :) )

I've never had cacao or gogi berries, though a friend from China imported his own from the Guang Zhou Province and offered me some. I did eat his tree fungus, though. ( m'kay.. that was interesting ). I've eaten WAY too many Lara bars and GoRAw! bars - but, at the time.. it was a necessary impliment in my desperation to keep on keel. It worked. I keep them in the house for anyone who wants them now; they've replaced Hidden Valley granola bars.

I spent hour upon hour upon hour in the kitchen working with raw recipes during the first 4 weeks of transition and 30 Day Challenge. It was arduous to say the least. I wasted FAR more than was eaten, and what was initially eaten is still eaten months later. I've not touched the dehydrator in about 6 weeks. I still have no real want to. I have no idea why, either. LOL

I found that when larger quantities of veggies and fruits were cut up ( call that quick prepare ) and placed in the fridge for a day or two... they fed us all quite fine with no extra preparation. Simple can be quite lovely and filling. I still blend foods, and vice cream is like Heaven on a hot day around here.

The opinionated part is forethwith: People are going to do what they want to do. People are going to find ways to get whatever "fix" they think they need at the time - and sometimes substitutions and gourmet recipes are their perfect answers. As far as expensive and far-off foods; to each their own, ya know? If that's what they want - that's what they want. Maybe it's not complicated to them ( ??? ) As far as homeopathy ( etc ) is concerned, that's a person's personal choice, again. Just because one does it doesn't mean another has to - and it doesn't mean that they're any "weaker" a raw foodist than the next one who wishes to take nothing - ever. I don't see thrones and sceptors being passed around for those who ascend the ranks of "good, better, bestest" raw foodist.

Alissa's approach is broad-spectrum - and it's for a purpose that she offers what she does in the ways in which she does. She's already understood the refinement process..and the "playfull and experimental" process some people dabble or even live in during their raw walk.

If you're comfortable in what you're doing - keep doing it.
If not, keep working at it until you get that way.

[sweetgoddess]

Rennee ~ "We do use superfoods here in our home. We were sick enough that we needed them"

That is GREAT! You are brilliant.
These foods DO have benefits. Powdered greens are helpful, digestive enzymes are helpful etc. Though they arent necessary for everyone, it is important to remember they do have benefits, in case one day those particular benefits are what you feel you need. :)

[Naturegirl]

This post has been reassuring, I was getting a little worried that I would be spending all my money on food from the internet to be 100% raw. I think that all those expensive raw items and gourmet dishes can scare people away (it did for me a little anyway).

If raw foodist are supposed to eat what "God" made available for us then why do we need a dehydrator (won't a sunroom or just the sun do the same trick)?

[Revvell]

If raw foodist are supposed to eat what "God" made available for us then why do we need a dehydrator (won't a sunroom or just the sun do the same trick)?

We don't actually "need" a dehydrator yet, many of us don't have sun rooms or enough sun to dry things fully and fast enough. Some things, like burgers, will remain too wet too long and get moldy.

Right now, I'm drying cookies. There's no sun. Now, I do have choices ~ I could eat the "dough" as is (which I have ~ lucky there's anything left to go into the dehydrator) or, I could use a dehydrator. As I want to take some cookies and/or fruit bars with me on a hiking trip Sunday a.m., I'll use the dehydrator.

Like many have stated here, after awhile, most of us rarely use dehydrators yet, on occasion, good to have. When something takes 12 hours to dehydrate, there's not enough sun to accomplish that and have a meal prepared for when one wants it.

Revvell

[wolfieandbetty]

I'm a newbie too. I found myself spending WAY too much time yesterday on another website perusing all those products. Then I had an epiphany: that activity is just an extension of my food addiction! I immediately closed the browser and got on with other things.

Look around at how much time we all spend thinking about, planning for, shopping for, cleaning up after, entertaining around - Food. Yikes, if that isn't addictive behaviour I don't know what is. What's the difference between not being able to stop yourself from eating a bunch of chips or other food that makes you feel bad physically, emotionally, and mentally, and drugs or alcohol?

My personal choice to go Raw in addition to just making sense from a health perspective, is to free myself from Food. I have no plans for the time being to use any of those products because it just feeds my addiction and I don't feel at this point that it's a healthy thing for me to do.

I have a husband and step kids at home who are still eating the SAD and it hasn't been tempting at all because I don't allow my mind to go there. I just look at their food and say " I don't eat that". I don't allow myself to give any energy to it and that has helped me so far. I also recognize I'm new at this but I usually accomplish what I set out to do. I am so happy to have found a healthy way to kick this addiction.

Thanks to all on this forum for sharing. It's a fabulous resource.

[TA]

Great post...I was wondering if perhaps I was the only person on the planet who thought cacao nibs tasted like dirt :D .

I totally agree with the wisdom of all the experienced raw foodies above, Jon, keeping it simple is realistic.

[mbf]

What a great lot of responses ! I would add that you won't find any super food pushing going on here.
I have tried gojis and cocoa nibs again like someone else said, out of curiousity.
I been raw since June and had never heard mention of any supplement or super food until I went to Raw Food Counseler just last week ! She was trying to get me to add lecithin granules into my buckwheat shakes and wants me to take Green Chlorella A !! I am looking into it but feel organic produce,some raw nuts,good water, a few frontier seasonings and tasty recipes are all we need right now.

MBF

[Naturegirl]

We don't actually "need" a dehydrator yet, many of us don't have sun rooms or enough sun to dry things fully and fast enough. Some things, like burgers, will remain too wet too long and get moldy.

Right now, I'm drying cookies. There's no sun. Now, I do have choices ~ I could eat the "dough" as is (which I have ~ lucky there's anything left to go into the dehydrator) or, I could use a dehydrator. As I want to take some cookies and/or fruit bars with me on a hiking trip Sunday a.m., I'll use the dehydrator.

Like many have stated here, after awhile, most of us rarely use dehydrators yet, on occasion, good to have. When something takes 12 hours to dehydrate, there's not enough sun to accomplish that and have a meal prepared for when one wants it.

Revvell

I don't have a sunroom either, and it is the middle of winter where I live, so I guess a dehydrator could be helpful sometimes (I'm just making excuses because I don't want to pay for one.)

[Nini]

If you crave crunchy snacks, like I do, you will pay a pretty penny at the store for them, like I do. Because I do not own a dehydrator. Someday I will invest in one. I spent $30 today in crackers because I crave crunchies!

[rawpriestess]

Nini, just to let you know, you can get an American Harvest Snack master dehydrator at Wallmart for about $40, make sure it has the temp control.

[Nini]

$40 at Walmart???? Oh yeah, I am there....

Thanks rawpriestess!