Opinions On Salt In Diet Wanted

[michigan roman]

ive been a vegan for 12 years , initially eating only raw or cooked simple plant matter . then over past 5 years ive gone back and forth from all raw to mostly raw . now once again im convinced that %100 raw is best . now the question has become salt, is it needed ? are small amounts harmful , make no difference or benificial long term beyond the short term benefit of making meal taste better to me ?

[Rawkinlocs]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

From what I've heard/read, Celtic salt is beneficial. Table salt is detrimental. Some believe ANY salt (celtic or not) isn't good (aren't there always those two sides where someone says it's good and someone says it's bad?)...though you've been doing raw on again/off again for 5 years...you're still (IMHO) in transition from cooked to raw therefore I would say as long as it isn't doing anything negatively that you are aware of, use celtic salt and overtime as you are raw longer and your body gets cleaner...it'll let you know if/when you ever need to release it from your diet!

[Gosia]

Interesting that you should mention that. I was just contamplating the issue. My initial (in the first year oy my raw food journey) attitude to salt was that it was OK to have good (Celtic) salt. But recently, as my body became more sensitive I guess, I have been experiencing negative aspects of ingesting it. I find salt too harsh on my body. I also noticed a direct relation between my cooked food divergences and salt, and its addicitve aspect. I have been realizing that my body does not really like it. I bought some celery sticks and intend to use these (blended in soups, cut up in salads, and eventually on their own) instead. I have been realizing that the "quantity test" (if you can make a meal out of a bowlful of something, then it is classified as food) is a very real way of checking whether something really is edible.

Best,
Gosia.

[Sharon in Colorado]

In Paul Bragg's book, Miracle of Fasting, it is explained that there are 2 different kinds of sodium.

One is organic sodium, found in plant foods. High concentrations of organic sodium can be found in celery, tomatoes and lemons. Plants take sodium chloride from the earth (or the sea) and convert it into organic sodium.

The other kind of sodium - inorganic sodium - is sodium chloride also known as table salt, Celtic salt, sea salt, etc. It is the kind of sodium that has not been converted to natural sodium via plants.

Paul Bragg strongly believed that sodium chloride, aka table and sea & Celtic salts cannot be used by the body because he would expell sodium chloride during long fasts. As each day went on, there would be a higher concentration of it in his urine.

There is also a theory or belief (don't know if it is scientific, but if could be) that only plants are able to convert sodium chloride into natural useable sodium fit for human consumption. All table and sea & Celtic salt contains over 96% sodium chloride and the rest minerals.

When you don't use sodium chloride, you can actually taste the natural sodium in your food. Many believe that sodium chloride is another kind of addictive seasoning that people could do without.

[cornvalley]

All free salts that are not buffered by being in solution (within plant structures) have similar characteristics. It could be classed as an irritant (it can cook snow on the streets) where a build up of protective tissue surrounding the tongue results in response to the amount of it's use. Like how sensitive do you want use taste buds to be?
Also sodium works in conjunction with potassium, the proper ratio being presented already within most edible plant foods. No need to supplement with extra sodium.
The mineral content of sea salts are quite low as much better sources are available and excluding the overdose of sodium.
Some people really enjoy the additional salt in their flavors but I think it masks the more subtle variations of the salts already in natural foods. Plus you can be assured your potassium to sodium ratio is easy maintained.

[FloridaBahai]

[QUOTE=Rawkinlocs]aren't there always those two sides where someone says it's good and someone says it's bad?

Yes! I remember reading where any kind of salt, as an additive, is bad because it's inorganic (dissolved rock) and the body will use water to "buffer" or "dilute" it as it makes its exit. But, what if the body is just getting rid of the excess salt, whether it be from food or the sea?

This one has gotten me because some animals actually do eat dirt in the form of clay at least. Parrots do it in the wild hence the inclusion of clay in some parrot food.

Craig

[FloridaBahai]

Also sodium works in conjunction with potassium, the proper ratio being presented already within most edible plant foods.

I had to keep from laughing at a co-worker of mine Saturday. I had eaten 2 bannanas and was about to eat a third. He told me that I shouldn't eat any more than 2 bannanas a day or my heart would fail!!! LOL!!! He said that TOO MUCH POTASSIUM would make my heart stop! Yeah, maybe if someone were to give me a shot of potassium chloride, my heart would stop. I wish I could have said what I felt but I was trying too hard to keep from laughing.

Craig

[Rawkinlocs]

Hi Craig,

Again, it's one of those things where you have to make the choice. You will hear it's good...you will hear it's bad. It takes time to get to a point where you no longer "need" the savor of salt on foods, especially when you still have remnants of cooked food in your system.

I use it and have no problems with it. When and if the day should come the longer I'm raw that my body no longer tolerates it, like Gosia, then I'll give it up. But for now I use it and will continue to do so until my own body says otherwise.

It's just like the thread where they're talking about raw fooders and drinking alcohol...it's a personal choice, there may be a negative side to ingesting it, but you have to make the decision to use or not use it and deal with your choice.

Cherie (sitting here munching on my delicious, *salted* flax crackers and onion dip! :p


[QUOTE=Rawkinlocs]aren't there always those two sides where someone says it's good and someone says it's bad?

Yes! I remember reading where any kind of salt, as an additive, is bad because it's inorganic (dissolved rock) and the body will use water to "buffer" or "dilute" it as it makes its exit. But, what if the body is just getting rid of the excess salt, whether it be from food or the sea?

This one has gotten me because some animals actually do eat dirt in the form of clay at least. Parrots do it in the wild hence the inclusion of clay in some parrot food.

Craig

[Beanie]

I use it too and don't mind admitting it! One thing I find with the body, is that the kidneys take time to adjust, especially with sodium and water balance. If you do eliminate it, do it slowly (unless you want serious muscle cramps), but then don't expect to be able to eat something "salty" again without havic! I find small amounts of Celtic sea salt pleasurable and for now I'm keeping it. My body gears me to what is right and at the right time. No two people are the same IMHO.

[FloridaBahai]

Cherie (sitting here munching on my delicious, *salted* flax crackers and

I'm glad you said that! I almost forgot about my soaked flax seeds! They are going into the dehydrator as soon as I get off here. :)

Craig,

P.S. I agree about the personal preference. I used Braggs for the first time today and it's salty by itself, but in the fettuccinni alfredo recipe, I couldn't taste the salt. It just tasted good... and was very filling! At first, I thought to myself, "I could eat that whole bowl." Well, there's still over half a bowl left.

[rawpriestess]

I don't know if salt is good or bad, or if it is a specific salt that is good or bad, what I do know is that the longer I am raw, the more foods I can taste.

I don't use salt at all, not even in recipes any more.

I LOVE Braggs, which leads me to think that it is highly addictive to me.

I have never been a salt eater, never salted my foods, never added salt to dishes, don't even have salt or seasonings on the table.

I do enjoy many spices and herbs.

I really like fresh fruits and veggies plain, no salt, no sauces, no nothing, although I know that many people like salt.

When I am feeding anyone else, I always put out the salt shaker, and they always reach for it. They say, "it needs salt.", while I am thinking, "Oh, how can you ruin that beautifully fresh tasting meal."

LOL

so, to each hir own.

[Sunshine9]

Sodium is essential to our health, and it can be difficult to get enough through vegetables alone. I have read that the phenomenon of the "EMACIATED RAW-FOODIST" comes from being deficient in sodium, because their bodies aren't holding on to any water. Sodium is what keeps us hydrated, and keeps us cool. Animals in nature lick the salt minerals from the ground! I think it is optimum to get most of our sodium from vegetables, and to use small amounts of high quality salt if necessary.

[Sharon in Colorado]

The Myth of the "Salt Lick"

Is a low-salt diet a deficient diet? Don't we need plenty of salt in our diets to keep us in top physical condition? This is popular notion...but is it true? People will tell you that animals will travel for miles to visit the so-called "salt licks". I investigated the salt-licks where wild forest animals congregated from miles around to lick the soil. Although all of these sites were known as "salt licks" the one chemical property they all had in common was a complete absence of sodium chloride (common salt). There was absolutely NO organic or inorganic sodium at the salt licks. But they had an abundance of many organic minerals and nutrients which the animals craved.

Miracle of Fasting, Paul Bragg, page 15

More on the effects of salt from pages 13 & 14:

1) Salt is not a food..2) Salt cannot be digested, assimilated or utilized by the body....salt has no nutiritonal value...salt has no vitamins...salt has no organic minerals...no nutrients of any kind...3) salt may act as a heart poison...increases the irritability of the nervous system...4) salt acts to rob calcium from the body and attacks the mucous lining throughout the entire gastroinstinal tract...swine have been known to die after large doses of it

[Rawkinlocs]

ONCE AGAIN...we will find people for AND against...but many if not most of us here are in transition and may still require the usage of certain things that are not considered "optimal".

As many arguements as there may be about how salt is bad...we can find just as many arguements that our precious raw foods diet, PERIOD, is bad. Again, arguements to support and arguements to dispute.

Everyone has to decide for themselves.

Sharon, do you still use salt or have you gotten to that point where you no longer require it as a part of your diet and you appreciate the natural sodium found in foods?

[tglasco4]

I believe that most people probably use way too much salt in the SAD diet. Since I have been raw, I did do a couple of experiments on myself going without salt for different periods of time. I didn't like it, nor did I find major improvements in my health. So, I decided to just let my body, mind and spirit reveal to me if and when I should cut down and/or discard the use of salt. For now, I love it on my salads. For me, at this stage (20 months raw), there are other things that I have discarded for good (bread, rice, potatoes come to mind immediately), but salt is not one of them at this time.

Peace.

[Beanie]

All I can add to this is that I had a friend become hypothyroid from lack of iodine and essential fatty acids it is believed. She added those back and got better. So for me, I cannot see the harm in adding small amounts of what I consider healthful items. I'm not risking my health either unless my body has negative effects from consuming these foods. I believe in living a happy, moderate lifestyle that is healthful and sustainable personally. Extreme measures I have not found beneficial for me. But thats a personal choice we each have to make. I do not need to have the most controled diet.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Rawkinlocs I do still use salt occassionally in my diet.

The OP asked if it was needed. The information I posted, I have always known about, and wanted to share, so I kept my person opinion and experience out of it, except for I *have* tasted the sodium in my food when I don't use salt. I have also read several testimonies stating that once salt is removed from their diets completely, they stopped craving it and tasted a pronounced flavor in their foods.

I read about the salt lick myth in Bragg's book so long ago, and when I saw these 2 posts in this thread, I retrieved my book and typed in exactly what is written about it.

I know Paul Bragg, N.D. Ph. D. did a lot of his own (urine and what-not) research & testing, he was a bio-chemist to my knowldege.

I once performed an experiment (I've posted it here before), where I put 2 celery stalks in 2 different glasses of water, one in tap water and one in distilled, the celery stalk in the distilled water didn't last as long. The one in the tap water stayed green longer. That gave me some evidence that plants use hard minerals.

If people want to use it, that is great. But the OP wanted different opinions about salt, and if it is "needed".

[Rawkinlocs]

Sharon, I apologize if my post came across as harsh and abrupt...I know you are only sharing information based on specific questions asked.

I just don't want to see people getting all into an uproar about salt when there are SO many varying opinions on it. I mean, you saw my husband's test results...his blood pressure was just as good as all else! And we have been using salt (not even Celtic, but the Real Salt brand) for quite some time now. I think that if we had been using the old stuff we used to use...the Morton's or other brands of white table salt, then his results may not have been as favorable as high blood pressure is another one of those things that "runs in the family". Not only does he use it on his food, but also does those salt flushes as mentioned in Stanley Burrough's Master Cleanse book, from time to time.

I mean Paul Bragg was a remarkable man who contributed a LOT to the world of health...but at the same token, not even all that HE says can be taken as gold because just look at what's going down about one of his company's main products!

So, my post wasn't meant to be an attack on YOU, but just on the whole thing of listening to any one person's argument on an issue. Dr. Doug Graham and Dr. Gabriel Cousens are sitting on opposite sides of the fence with the whole "how to deal with candida" issue...for some, the no/low fat, high fruit approach has worked wonders while for others, the no/low fruit approach was the ticket.

It can make your head spin that there are so many opposing views on so many important issues. That's what I get peeved about and just don't want people (mainly newbies to raw) being fearful of certain things that are posted here when it may or may not even be worthy of concern.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Rawkinlocs no problem. I think Paul Bragg may have been speaking to the wider SAD audience who used salt liberally.

I mean Paul Bragg was a remarkable man who contributed a LOT to the world of health...but at the same token, not even all that HE says can be taken as gold because just look at what's going down about one of his company's main products!

It is kind of sad in a way that his name is used on products that Patricia Bragg patents and now markets. She now runs the company and has after his death. I would have to wonder myself if he would approve of Liquid Aminos with his health background.

[cornvalley]

This NEWS FLASH just in!
Some people are sensitive to excesses of sodium, others aren't.
The beauty of it all is YOU get to decide through your experience.
Entertaining concept.

[Mike]

In Gabriel Cousens new book, he writes that the salts "Celtic
Sea Salt", "Himalayan Salt", "Krystal Salt" and "Real Salt" have
around 90 minerals in them.

These minerals are angstrom sized, which are in a form our
body can use. Angstrom is the size of organic minerals found
in plants.

A good way to eat this salt is to put a tiny smidgen into a
morning glass of water.

It could be difficult to eat enough sodium on a raw vegan diet
if you are not careful. For optimal digestion, we need the right
balance of potassium and sodium. My favorite way to do this is
with my daily green juice made with 25% celery juice.

This is my favorite article on salt:

==> http://www.curezone.com/foods/saltcure.asp

Salts that Heal and Salts that Kill
Unrefined Ocean Sea Salt versus Refined Salt - Table Salt

[SamuelWilson]

I just received my Himalayan Salt and it taste great. It has a slight pink color and smells like the ocean. I have a hard time believing this stuff is unprocessed. It taste very good with a strong salt taste like SAD table salt.

I like it better than the Real Salt or the Celtic Sea Salt.

[Gosia]

Oh, I see that the discussion is still going. I think that we would all agree, that while in transition, there will be non-optimal foods that might be helping us staying raw. I suppose that salt is one of them. And, I think I would prefer to continue to stay raw and use salt for some transitional period, then revert to cooked foods (although I discovered that salt may induce cooked food cravings, so my reasoning here could be questionable).

Now, as far as what happens in the longer term, time will come when one might contemplate some changes. I am certainly in the process of doing this. I came to a point that I can no longer tolerate salt in my diet without experiencing adverse effects. So, I came to a conclusion that no type of salt is beneficial, or harmless. Well, I am not a pioneer in this thinking.

If one would like to find out more details about that, there is more out there.

In the meantime, enjoy your raw foods!

Sincerely,
Gosia.

PS Too much arguing can lead to deficiencies.;)

[SamuelWilson]

I have read a lot of supporting information regarding unprocessed sea salts. Alissa includes it in her recipes in her Living on Live Food book.

If it is not healthy, then I don't want to use it. I feel that if it was not healthy, then Alissa would not list it as an ingredient.

[Gosia]

I am sure that Alissa would not mean anything bad towards anyone. She is a very loving and open-minded person, and I admire her. I am not a fortune teller, but I gues that her response would be to focus on staying raw, rather than worrying about some small component of the raw diet. I think she might have (sorry if my memory fails me) said something like that with respect to Braggs aminos, which are now considered to be not so healthy, and which has appeared in some of her recipes. I guess, you can use it, if you like it, but if you feel that your body does not tolerate that, then don't! The main thing - stay raw. And peaceful! :)

Best,
Gosia.

[Rawkinlocs]

Well, let's just keep in mind that if one wants the conflicting information on an ingredient that Alissa DOES use, advocates, and even sells on her site (celtic salt) then one can do the research and find it.

But again, this site was founded on the principles on which she teaches which is, as you stated Gosia, to focus on being and staying raw and then once the body is cleaner you do whatever tweaking is necessary.

Once again, Dr. Doug may be against as well as Herbert Shelton and many others...but as many as we find against salt (as they are also against many other things raw fooders use as staples - onions, garlic, seasonings of ANY kind, dehydrated foods, etc.) we'll find just as many credible, reputable people who are in favor of it.

Now, I think the OP's question has been answered and s/he has enough here to consider, chew on and make a decision for themselves and on that note, I am going to close this thread now as it's only going to keep going back and forth.