I wasn't sure where to post this.

[pauliegirl]

If this is in the wrong spot i will understand being bumped or moved. I really need an answer, so I am just g to get this post out there.

I have been diagnosed with anorexia and I am currently in treatment as an outpatient. I was supposed to go into the hospital, but when I found out what they make you eat, I refused. I agreed to try the intensive outpatient therapy and tonight was my first night. They had lasagna, salad and a cookie and pineapple for dessert. I haven't eaten cooked food in such a long time and I hated every minute of it. I know i need help and my insurance covers this, but I feel like I will go insane if I eat cooked food 3 times per week. I want to be 100% RAW, but for right now that is impossible. How will I get this cooked food out of my system, without using laxatives? What can I eat at home to help counteract these three cooked meals per week? As soon as I am finished with the intensive program I plan to 100% RAW, but until then I NEED to be as raw as I can be. Can I take enzymes while I am eating the cooked food? What are the safest cooked foods that I can eat. I don't ever want to eat cooked Lasagna again. It is sitting in my stomach like a brick and I have a splitting headache. I haven't had a headache in a long time. The worst part is that when I eat cooked food, it makes me feel so terrible, that I don't want to eat anything at all, not even raw food. When I wake up tomorrow, I want to eat something to help me feel better. I want to eat something that will help me feel like I am detoxing my body of that lasagna. What should I do. Any suggestions???

I have to stick to this program or the doctors told me that I will have to go into the hospital. If I go into the hospital, then it will be 3 meals a day of cooked food!!! I have to go through with this, and I need to know what to eat when I am home to help balance out the negative effects of the cooked food. Please help. I have to go back tomorrow and they are having veggie burgers on white buns. No one believes that I can get healthy on a raw diet and it makes me angry. Thay won't even give it a chance. I am sorry for rambling on and on, but I am going crazy over that lasagna. I feel that if I could find a healthy way to counteract as much of the cooked food as possible, then I would be able to relax and actually benefit from the outpatient treatment. The sooner I can relax, the sooner I can get better and get out of this program. I just keep thinking of cooked foods as poison and I would like a temporary antedote until I can eat 100% raw again. If I keep freaking out like this every night of treatment I am never going to get out of there. I will never move on. What are the healthiest things I can eat while I am at home?


PLEASE HELP,
pauliegirl

[Rawkinlocs]

Pauliegirl, this is fine...I actually just read your other post and started to move it here.

I am SO sorry you are going through this (((HUGS))). For some reason, I kinda want to say when you get home have yourself a big, tall, green smoothie!

I mean, I know it must be a bummer to HAVE to eat the cooked foods you don't want to eat, but again, as you said it's better having it once a day as opposed to 3 times a day. I know the main thing is that they want to make sure that you EAT. I guess you bringing some of your own items is out of the question? Like bringing your own whole wheat buns as opposed to the white ones they serve...also, do you HAVE to eat the bun or can you only eat the veggie burger? Can you request what you eat at all? Can you request that they not give you certain things, but rather cooked wholefoods that are vegetarian or vegan? Or is that pretty much out of the question and you have to eat whatever they give you?

I hope you are well soon!! It's too bad they don't think you can win this battle with raw foods. I'm sitting here reading you say they served you lasagne and I'm thinking to myself, "But she can have LIVING lasagne right out of Alissa's book!!"

But I guess the thing to do is to comply so they don't admit you. How does that work anyway? How can someone force hospitalization on a person? What would happen if you refused admittance?

Not saying you should or shouldn't do that, just wondering how that all works.

[Autumn]

I was about to reply when this was moved too, and all of a sudden I was like, "Uhhhhhh, where'd it go?" :rolleyes:

Pauliegirl,
I'm very sorry for what you are going through right now. I was going to suggest just about everything Rawkinlocs did-if you can bring your own food, make substitutions, etc.? Since all they want you to do is eat, I can't imagine that they would be totally inflexible about what you eat, especially because it is wonderful fresh whole foods that you want to eat.

Why don't you bring a few pieces of fruit, some nuts and some raw veggies tomorrow and see if they'll let you substitute the meal with your stuff or at least part of it?

I wish you the very best of luck.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Pauliegirl are you open to eating until satiated? I mean, is there any way you can ask for an abundance of fruits & vegetables since their cooked food is making you feel sick...I wonder if they'll understand this.

Maybe if you have to eat the veggie burger, you can request to have it with greens intead of a bun. If they see you eating and enjoying your food, maybe they will accept you bringing your own food.

[pauliegirl]

Thank you so much for your replies. I feel so loved!

There is no food allowed into the program, other than what they serve. If you don't eat the buns or bread they make you substitute with a yogurt or a can of ensure. Their vegan menu is so full of white bread, pasta and other colon gunking food like that. If you opt for the regular diet, it seems that there are actually more veggies. I don't know which foods make me feel worse. I know that whenever I eat cheese, pasta, breads or sweets, I won't go to the bathroom for a week. I feel so stopped up eating like this. I don't feel clean and energetic eating cooked foods. They are so closed minded to an all Raw diet and that upsets me, but I don't have any other choice. They want me to gain 10-12 pounds and then I will be able to move out of the program. I am 97 pounds right now. My problem is that I don't want to gain 10 pounds eating their junk. Whenever I eat SAD foods, I gain it in my thighs and hips. When I eat Raw foods, I seem to gain it all over in a more balanced way.

I understand that they just want me to eat and I keep telling myself that this is only for a short time; I CAN make it through. What really helps is knowing that you guys are here during this and that I have your support and advice to lean on. I also know that as soon as I am finished with this program, I will really need all of your advice and support to help me go 100% RAW. I never realized how much I loved RAW foods until I started to eat cooked again. I was eating that lasagna last night and the whole time I was wishing it was the one from Alyssa's book. I couldn't even pretend that it was because it tasted so dead, if you know what I mean. While I was eating it I just thought of my children and how much I wanted to get better for them. I want to be a strong Mom and not struggle with this weight issue anymore. I don't want my daughters to go through anything like this.

In the spring I was eating 100% raw and I felt better than I ever did in my life. I wish I could figure out what triggered this past episode. I have some idea of what happened and I could kick myself for not recognizing it then. This therapy will help me recognize my triggers and I will know what to do if it happens again. I was so new to this RAW diet after my last bout with anorexia, and people were all over my case when I started to eat this way. There was so much pressure and I caved into it. I reverted back to not eating at all instead of standing up for myself and telling them that I can make my own choices.

I keep thinking that when I finally make it through this, I can go 100% RAW and that really excites me. I guess I have another great motivator to get through this program and get better. I wish that they would work with me more, but I can not afford this type of therapy without insurance, so I need to take what I can get. Maybe someday I could open a clinic of my own for people with eating disorders and help them all heal with Raw and Living foods. There is another reason to get through this!

I want to talk more about this if it is okay to discuss on the boards. I really need as much support as possible right now. I thank each and every one of you for caring enough to reply. I am so motivated to get through this and get better. I have too much to look forward to and I am not going to give into this disease anymore!!!!!!!

I have to leave now to go to the program. I will let you know how I made out with the veggie burger. Once again I thank you so much for your replies. Keep them coming!


:) :) :)
pauliegirl

[fruitbat]

dear pauliegirl
hello i really feel for you as i used to be anorexic and have had doctors on my case for 10 yrs and they are very strict on what you should be eating and if you say i want to eat veg and fruit then they say thats the anorexia talking and that no one can live on just fruit and veg well im proof you can get better and put on weight this way ages ago i came on here and said i wanted to be raw and evreyone helped me and said you can do it etc. so i did and i put on healthy weight and felt great then my parents split up and i turned to junk food too and have put on a bit to much and now batteling binge eating but im back on raw and getting healthy again please dont use laxatives ive been there done that and all ive got from it now is bad bowel problems i never digest things very well and i just always got a dodgy stomach that i hope will heal with raw
if they really wont let you take your own food which i cant understand why the doctors act like that as you can get a good amount of calories from rawfood if you include nuts and seeds and smoothies then i guess you can only eat there food then eat healthy raw at home my mum pulled me out of doctors care as it was making me worse as i wanted to do it raw and they kept shoving gross gain weight shakes down me and telling me to eat cookies and chips i couldnt cope with it and lost more weight so when she pulled me out from there help and i done it raw with her i got better but i guess thats not an option for you sorry i wish i could help you more as i feel your pain onestly i do i hope you get better though
why dont you ask them to work out the calories you need to put on waight through a raw diet or they just not going to acsept the idea at all?
take care love Danielle :)

[shakalover]

pauliegirl,

i'm pm-ing you right now. :)

[Lauraw]

Dear Pauliegirl,

Big ((((hugs))))!

I'm sorry you find yourself in this dilemma. I was bulimic for five years as a young adult, so I know a bit of what you're going through. I agree with Fruitbat: The people running the show probably think that "special requests" are the anorexia talking. It's hard to reason with them, because so few people know about and believe in the toxicity of cooked food.

Here are some ideas:

1) I see from your profile that you are an adult. You also say that you agreed to this program and you know you need help. As an adult, who is entitled to make her own choices, can you bring these well-intentioned folks some articles (written by doctors is always good) supporting the raw food lifestyle? And some testimonials from people who were raw and then felt sick after eating cooked (I'm guessing there are plenty of stories on this board that you could print). Then, go to them with an alternate food list that includes non-anorexic type things: avocados, nuts, almond butter (my thought is, when you say only "fruits and vegetables," that makes them hear "anorexia talking")? Agree to eat as many calories or as much volume as they want you to have, but raw. Enlist their help in coming up with a meal plan for you. Show them you're not fighting them, you're wanting their help.

2) If they just say NO, then how long do you have to eat their food? How long does this intensive program last? I'm guessing the three cooked meals a week won't literally kill you. You can use enzymes to help you digest. Probiotics might help, too. And, Rawkinlocs' idea about green smoothies at home is a great one...lots of energy from the greens and fruit. Between meals (not with, 'casue you want to digest as well as possible) drink LOTS of water to help flush your system naturally. Please don't do the diuretics, especially if that's been a pattern for you in the past. If the cooked food makes you feel bad, maybe take a nap or journal about it or write about it here...get your feelings out.

3) Finally, is this the ONLY program that can help you? Maybe there's something out there that would allow you to eat raw food? Or, like you said, maybe you're being prepared to create your own healing center. :)

If I can offer some hope...many of us on this board ate cooked, SAD for longer than you've been alive. We're here, eating raw now, and we're doing well. You'll get through this and you'll be onto raw soon. We're here for you.

[Gosia]

could you possibly get in touch with some raw foodists who recovered from anorexia with the help of raw foods? Getting support from them would be helpful. Luskinia is a girl who recovered from anorexia, and she has some interesting things to say. She is planning to create a website to share her experience, and I believe that this would be a great contribution. I've seen her posting on rawfooddupport and duriangroup (yahoo), so perhaps you could try to talk to her there.

All the best,
Gosia.

Here is some stuff she has said in the past (in blue), you might find it helpful:

This is G o o g l e's cache of http://rawfoodsupport.com/read.php?f=12&i=47392&t=47392
This cached page may reference images which are no longer available.



Author: Tash (---.nsw.bigpond.net.au)
Date: 01-04-05 02:55

I need some advice...for a long time I have been battling with digestive problems and I have had serious anorexia for a number of years. I have started a new job where I feel very stressed and pressured. I feel like I can't eat at all during the day! My digestion isn't very good and I usually feel bloated and a bit foggy after I eat. Even a piece of fruit. Some days are better than others and I have improved over time which I have to be thankful for. I don't know whether my inability to eat is nerves related or simply physical. I really do feel pressured to perform and when I don't eat I feel more focused and energetic. When I eat I feel tired and dopey. Even if I just eat fruit. Lately I have been eating just two apples a day. Maybe a little bit more. Then for dinner I will have a salad with some nuts or something along those lines.

I also do feel that I have an emotional blockage to putting on weight. I like the weight that I am at the moment and I would be lying if I said that I wasn't afraid of putting on a few pounds which might happen if I did eat more. I don't know if this is contributing to my stomach being in knots. I am in my first proper job since being treated for annorexia and being in a high pressure environment is making me very nervous too.

I am quite tall and I have relatively big bones so if I put on weight I always feel like I look like a big, clumsy oaf and I feel so embarrassed about myself. I know it sounds so ridiculous but it is the way I feel.

I don't know whether I should make myself eat or what I should do but I know that this can't go on. Does anybody have any advice? I would be greatly appreciative.

Tash.





Reply To This Message
Re: Only really hungry at night!
Author: Christine (---.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)
Date: 01-04-05 14:16

Hi Tash,

I'm not a professional, but it sounds to me like you are still in your illness of anorexia. A few apples and a salad a day is simply NOT enough food. You yourself said that you have an emotional block to gaining any weight. You said that you have recently finished treatment for anorexia. Perhaps you should discuss these feelings your counselor?

I hope this helps,
Christine



Reply To This Message
Re: Only really hungry at night!
Author: luskinia (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: 01-04-05 22:12

Hey there,

I've been thinking of you - I'm sorry that you're still struggling so much. Christine's right: that really isn't enough food and if you're still coming out of the anorexic mind-and-body set (or if you're still stuck in it) then all the anxiety and fear is going to screw around with your hunger signals - I know because I've been there.

If it's your first job situation since being in treatment, then you need tons of extra support! The thing that's been helping me so much is having just masses of support, between my meditation therapist, going to raw potlucks, and then as I got stronger just doing more and more health-enhancing (for me anyway) things like gardening and foraging.

It sounds also like your body still isn't used to eating. Back when I was still stuck in it, I found it hard to digest things too - but often I couldn't think straight for lack of food either. Back then, I found apples quite hard to digest and things definitely began to improve when I was having more in the way of gentler things like papaya, mango, persimmon, banana.

You probably know about the fact that a drastically calorically restricted diet leads to anorexic behaviours - the reason why I mention this is to point out that the longer you continue to eat so little, the longer you'll keep yourself in that mindset and your body will stay that way too. I know that it's hard to eat more and I know that convincing yourself to do it despite the fact that you might end up gaining weight is terrifying - I have been there deeply and painfully. I found that observing the quantities and varieties of food eaten by other people and the fact that their weight stayed stable eventually helped me to trust my own body - and even to accept that the weight that I did gain has been directly proportionate to my increase in strength and ability to do things.

So I'm suggesting that you should put some energy and intention into making a habit of eating more food because the amount that you're currently eating is keeping you in status quo and preventing you from healing more - this is just based on my own experience and I really hope it's some help.
love and sympathies,
Ela



Reply To This Message
Re: Only really hungry at night!
Author: Tash (---.nsw.bigpond.net.au)
Date: 01-05-05 01:54

Christine, thank you very much for your advice. I greatly appreciate it. I think that you are right. Luskinia, thanks for your words. They really help. I am finding it difficult. Since I have been getting help and have been consciously trying to heal my mind and body, I have been going through periods where sometimes I eat healthy amounts but as soon as I put on weight I freak out and go back to starving myself. It really sucks. I guess my digestion gets totally affected by my nerves as even the most perfectly combined meal or even a mono meal of fruit hurts my stomach.

I guess you are both right. I need to make an effort to eat more and make sure that I am getting the proper support. Maybe then my appetite and eating will normalize.

Thanks a lot for your help.


Reply To This Message
Re: Only really hungry at night!
Author: lisa1 (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 01-05-05 05:56

Tash,

The reason you have a hard time digesting food is bc your body is not used to digesting anymore. Even ppl who are not anorexic who go on long term fasts expirience the same thing. You have to gradually build up your food intake. Perhaps in your case blended food is a good idea until your digestion is back to normal. Every day increase your amount of solid food by a small percent. I once spoke to someone who did a 30 day juice fast and he said the first day off his fast the only thing he could eat was a quarter of an apple. It took him some time to rebuild his appetite. It is actually dangerous to start eating alot right after you stop eating for a while, regardless of the cause, especially in heavy food.
Now regarding anorexia, my oppinion is this a condition created by our society. Yes, if you eat a SAD diet you may very well end up fat. I mean, what would you like me to say, eat fast food and expect to be thin and healthy? We're encouraged to eat the most unhealthy diet to man kind and then, if anyone has any fear of the consequences they are labeled with a disease. It's the same with any condition. Every condition in our society is labeled as a disease. For instance, today ppl no longer just have heartburn they have "acid reflux disease". The word disease, disorder, etc. usually encourages ppl to seek medical treatment by a doctor. I really reccomend you read "Natural Cure's They Don't Want You to Know about", by Kevin Trudeau. He goes more in detail on this.
Anyways, I am by no means encouraging you to starve as a means to loose weight. If you were having weight problems, there is a healthy way to loose it. As long as you eat healthy natural foods your weight will stabilize at where it should be. The reason people in this country look the way they do is bc of what they eat, and the lifestyle they live. No other country has such high rates of obesity, over half our country is overweight. Also, keep in mind that being skinny doesn't necessarily = being healthy. Many ppl are naturally skinny but are just as unhealthy as any SAD eater. Best of Luck.

Lisa


Reply To This Message
Re: Only really hungry at night!
Author: Christine (---.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)
Date: 01-05-05 13:34

Hi Tash,

I'm glad you are reaching out, and I think you have received some good advise so far.I think Lisa's idea of blending foods is a good one. It would help you to be able to perhaps consume more calories and bulk than you would if just eating normally. I really encourage you to not try to do this on your own. Do you have a strong support system available to you since you've finished treatment? By support, I don't necessarily mean from the medical point of view, but people you can talk to about your food fears, and who can advise you in your best interests? Try to stay away from talking to people who reinforce your anorexic thoughts. Instead seek out others who have walked the road before you, and come out healthy.

I agree with what Lisa said also, about maybe needing to build up slowly to eating more. The stomach stretches and contracts, according to the amount of food it is used to. If it's not used to having much in there at one time, it would be uncomfortable, and even painful, to try to begin stuffing large amounts of food into it. Maybe eating smaller, more frequent meals would be a good idea for you at this point. Ela pointed out some fruits that are a little easier on the digestion, papaya, banana, mango, persimmon, these are all good. And if you blend these fruits up, and make a smoothie, they will be even gentler on your stomach.

Lisa is so right, our society creates anorexia and other eating disorders by the double message of: look at all of this great food, full of fat and empty calories, eat, eat! Then, we are told: but don't gain any weight, stay skinny as a rail, look like a little girl, even if you are a full-grown woman. It's crazy-making! But, if we follow the way nature intended us to eat, of fresh, full-of-life foods, our bodies won't betray us. We will become healthy beyond our wildest dreams!

I wish you all the best, and hope that you will reach our for all the support you need.

Blessings and best of health to you,

Christine


Reply To This Message
Re: Only really hungry at night!
Author: luskinia (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: 01-05-05 20:42


I agree with the additional points about taking it slowly and having a support network. And Lisa and Christine are both totally right that you need to take it slowly.

I think I'd already shared with you that absolutely anything and everything used to upset my stomach, because I was so unused to eating and also - perhaps even more importantly - because I was taking the food in an attitude of fear rather than of love, gratitude and trust. Can you find one particular food that you really love, around which you can develop an attitude of trust? That's why durian helped me so much with my physical recovery: I'd never known it was possible to like a food so much; my whole body craved it and felt nurtured by it and it was the first food that I was able to eat wtih that feeling of trust.

I definitely used to have to eat smaller amounts and more frequently, and for several months it was something I had to make a conscious effort over, despite my constant self sabotage. Enough of me had to want to become functional and happy again despite the constant fear and self denial. Please feel free to keep in touch with me about this and please get as much support as you can. If I could come out of the depths, there is surely hope for you too.

much love and support,
Ela



Reply To This Message
Re: Only really hungry at night!
Author: Tash (---.nsw.bigpond.net.au)
Date: 01-06-05 01:43

Thank you so much Ela, Lisa and Christine. I will let you know how I go. I greatly appreciate your words and your help. It is all very helpful. I think that I just need to relax into it and just chill out about everything. I think my nerves are my worst enemy. I just need to accept that I am worthy of nourishing myself with good food.

Thanks guys,

Tash.

[pauliegirl]

Tonight they had a veggie burger and I decided to eat it but I refused the bun and the potato chips. They made me eat a yogurt and I did, but only because I know that there are enzymes in the yogurt. I didn't feel too badly after that meal. I wasn't as stuffed and heavy feeling. The lasagna last night was the worst. It sat in my stomach like a brick. I had the hardest time digesting that pasta. I think if I would have eaten the bun tonight, I would have felt the same way.

Now I am excited because I know that I have 4 days to eat totally RAW, and that makes me feel better. I actually want to eat now as long as it's raw food. I am making some desserts from Alyssa's book and I am having the marinated asparagus & tomatoes and some lasagna for Thanksgiving. The hardest part is having an eating disorder and the whole family staring at you as you eat veggies. That is why I made 3 pies. Hopefully they won't bother me too much about the type of food I am eating and focus on the fact that I AM eating. I know they all mean well, but it drives me nuts sometimes.

I really want to thank you all for your support. It helps to know that there are people out there who really care and aren't judgemental. I am glad to know that no one condemns me for eating these 3 cooked meals per week in order to get better. I am going to try my best to keep pushing the raw food issue, but I doubt they will give into my requests. Until I am discharged I am going to focus on the fact that it isn't going to last forever and when I am done I can eat all of the RAW food that I want. I am trying to get my mind in a healthy state right now. That is more important than focusing on those 3 cooked meals. When I start to gain weight I just have to remember that I am getting stronger for my children.

I am going to start having alot of green shakes. What is the best combination? Is there a good cleansing and detoxifying green shake recipe? I was also wondering if eating more fruit would help. I am trying to drink plenty of water. I have some e3live algae that I haven't been taking. Will this help me? I did feel better when I was taking it before and I could start again.

I am so tired right now and I should get some rest. I am having 24 people at my house for dinner and I am the only one who will be eating Raw. I have cooked food to make and my Raw food as well, so I am going to be at little stressed and very busy. I will write more as soon as I can.

I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving. I know that I am thankful for all of your support and HUGS. You guys are great!

pauliegirl

[pauliegirl]

I read your PM and I am hoping to reply tomorrow. I need to get a few hours of sleep. I'm exhausted. I'll PM you as soon as I can. Thanks for your caring and understanding. It really means alot to me right now.

pauliegirl

[Beanie]

I do understand about people telling you what to eat/not to eat and freaking out over raw foods, forcing you to eat certain things. I'm quite underweight still, but I do eat. At times when I read what others eat here, I feel like I'm the piggy! People sometimes do ask me if I'm anorexic now and tell me I should eat meat, breads (I can't eat gluten!), pastas, and beans and grains and even animal fat!! :eek: I eat a decent amount of avocados, nuts and seeds/oils now, so I try to get extra calories that way. Sometimes its too heavy, but I'm busy and now it feels good. Actually, my brain thrives on it.....otherwise I knew I would have to eat some cooked since I started losing weight once I went raw. And I DO feel better raw! My "mishaps" have made me want to stick to raw though.

But in all honesty, until you SHOW them, they won't stop. And normal SAD people don't understand how horrible it feels to have a lump of extra fatty, large portions of dead lasagne sitting in your gut sucking all your energy. And they equate health with the number on the scale. Its really in your head! I don't think you will get them to budge......just plow through it and "fake it til you make it." Drs. sometimes are not so smart.

My weight has been fairly steady recently and 10+ lbs more than it used to be. And I struggle to keep it up and watch it. So my family isn't on my back now. And at times I will go against what some people say on this board because I also know plenty of people with eating disorders and don't want to go that route (thinking wise) nor do I want others go that way. I believe in eventually listening to you body and GIVE IT what it needs regardless of your weight, calories, fat content, etc. Then you are free. Thats how it goes! My Drs now tell me I'm healthy.....and I keep my mouth shut about what I eat.

BTW, I lost a lot of weight due to a period of depression. When it comes down to it, thats the main issue.....not the weight. So focus on WHY you don't eat enough or in your case, whats making you want to diet. This is just a temporary thing. Distract yourself somehow around the food and try to work a compromise if at all possible and it will be over. Gee, nuts and seeds are more caloric than bread so maybe you can sub those?

But when I had to gain weight and was forced to eat heavy foods, I used to just curl up in a comfy chair and lie there until it passed. Mad and angry over it and myself for losing too much weight. Then of course I didn't want/enjoy eating. But once I was "healthy" people left me alone. Then I went on my way and focused on the real problem! Now I do what I want and yes, I loooove eating!! :p Can't wait until tomorrow to muncha, muncha on LOTs of raw, vegan foods.....yummy!
:D Enjoy lifes simple pleasures, the sun, the trees, animals, the beautiful colors of fruits and veggies. Chug down some extra juices!

Please feel free to PM me if you want!
Take care and lots of warm hugs to you!!!!!!! :)

[Sharon in Colorado]

Pauliegirl, do you think they would cooperate if you told them you had a grain allergy/intolerance? I'll bet it's the cooked grains that are doing you in.

I really believe the proof will be in the raw pudding if you were to take some blood tests to show your nutriend levels. With all that raw food, I bet that you will blow them out of the water.

(Possibly dumb) Question: It sounds like you *want* to eat, raw. Isn't anorexia when you don't want to eat at all? I know if must be complicated, I don't understand it myself. But it seems like if you have a desire to eat food that is raw, and consume plenty of it to satisfy you, how would that make you anorexic?

[1-icurn]

Awh...I can't believe your post. Pauliegirl..search all my posts and you will see I have had food issues for a long time. We have so much in common and I more then ever want us to get together now. Just a quich question..what clinic is it? Friends or Renue? Like the other posts say...mention and agree to eat the equilivent in healthy raw food. If they even hesitate do not push it. Just do what they want to get through the program without incident. You do not need to be getting 3 of those meals a day. Some of my suggestions would not be considered healthy so I will not post them here but take my advice and stay away from the laxatives no matter what. Check your email and I will be home on Friday..


Deb

[pauliegirl]

I want to eat now, but a month ago I slipped back down the anorexia path and I went for over two weeks without eating. I was low weight to start out with and those two weeks really did a number on me. Anorexia is not just about "not wanting to eat". It is more complex than that. It is a fear of losing control combined with many other issues. I still struggle with not wanting to eat, but when I do eat, I want it to be healthy raw foods. I know that I will get to the root of this problem through therapy and then I will absolutely WANT to eat again. Actually even when I was not eating for weeks at a time, there was a starving little voice begging me to eat. Deep down inside people with anorexia want to eat so badly, but the fear that consumes them is even stronger than the desire to nourish themselves. It must be hard for anyone who has never experienced this to understand. I am sure it sounds sick and warped to some people. But to anyone who has gone through it or is going through it right now; I know you understand. Eating raw foods is just the best way in my opinion to help me recover.

I have told them about the grain allergy/intolerance and they will not comply unless I have a bunch of test results from the doctor proving this. I had one test done and it was negative, so I cannot even use the allergy approach. Although my gastro doctor told me that I probably have a hard time digesting those types of foods, until he signs the paper stating that the blood test came back positive; they will not budge. I am just going to get through this program and deal with the issues behind it. I am going to do my best to stay as raw as I can and just deal with the 3 cooked meals per week.

pauliegirl

[ReneeSC]

Like bringing your own whole wheat buns as opposed to the white ones they serve...also, do you HAVE to eat the bun or can you only eat the veggie burger? Can you request what you eat at all? Can you request that they not give you certain things, but rather cooked wholefoods that are vegetarian or vegan? Or is that pretty much out of the question and you have to eat whatever they give you?

Pauligirl,

I went through two bouts of anorexia as a teenager. I completely understand why you're feeling what you're feeling. I'm so sorry! If I hadn't turned diabetic, I wouldn't have had so much weight to lose before going raw ( I'm normally a thin person - blood sugar changed that ..well.. actually..I'm looking thin again YAY!!).

I have to say that I think that Rawkinloc's suggestion of bringing some of your own food from home and showing it to them and eating it infront of them.. could make a large impact upon them. I realize that you're eating foods prescribed by a SAD nutritionist, and they want meat and carbs in you so that you'll not waste away. Frankly, I'd do it anyway, even if they refused you ( which would be INSANE!) Everytime you show up for your nutritional counseling and checks, bring your food and start munching. I WOULD! So...alright.. maybe you'll have to swallow down a few bites of "something" just to keep them happy.... but I'd really bring your own food. Remember, part of anorexia is about control ( just as you said)... so, take control and insist that you are able to eat what you bring.

Why not make some raw concoctions like.... date nut torte balls... bring some raw nuts ( macs they know are high mono fats ) - bring a salad made with broccoli and spinach ( calcium/protien), carrot sticks dipped in one of Alissa's sauce/dips, and... really like Raw said.. why not show up with a hefty mug of a shake ( I'd throw protein powder in there just for them ), and just be sippin' away as they work on you.

One, you'll get fed the nutrtion your body DOES need to stay alive...and we all ( even you ) want that to happen!
Two, they'll see you're not in defiant denial - can be reasoned with - ARE eating, and might just let you do it.

If they have a smart response ( we want you to eat ONLY what we give you!) ( again, INSANE).... Then be ready to say.. something to the effect of:

"I am a patient here - OUTpatient, A VOLUNTEER. I am not a prisoner. The issue here isn't eating what YOU want me to, but eating what my body needs to stay alive and to get healed. I know you want me to get well. I appreciate you helping me; but telling me that I MUST eat only what you make me... does take my control away, and THAT'S part of this problem! Why not give me the control....and we'll compromise. You'll let me sit here and eat this "Rabbit Food" - and I'll then eat some of your's. We all win"

C'mon, Love... readjust that backbone of your's right infront of their faces ( it just might impress them...and totally realign your internal thinking) - focus your defiance from inward control..and start taking the control outwardly.
YOU will win. And it's YOU here that is the central issue - NOT FOOD.
So, don't let the argument at hand shift over to a fight about food ( the tool ). Take control.

God Bless you, Hon! RAWK ON, Girlfriend. FIGHT!

[pauliegirl]

I wasn't going to but I binged. It was all raw food, but I still felt horrible. :mad: I ate zucchini pasta, asparagus, and some other veggies. That was fine, but then I ate almost 1/2 of a raspberry banana cream pie, 3 pieces of an apple pie and a piece of lemon pie. It was all raw, but it was too much. I just couldn't stop. Today I restricted, but not too badly. I ate very lightly and I ate all 3 meals. I have been craving sweets like crazy and I am so afraid of losing control. Is there something I can do to satisfy these cravings without eating so much that I feel like taking laxatives again? I haven't been drinking enough water because it's so cold and I have been wanting warm tea. I guess I could warm my water up a little and squeeze some lemon in it.

I am trying to keep eating, but I still feel like I want to restrict, even on raw foods. It's getting better, but I'm still not quite where I want to be in my recovery. I know it's not going to happen overnight, but I wish I could have a major RAW revelation and feel how Alyssa feels. :D Her book is so inspiring. Maybe I should read the beginning again, instead of looking at all of the recipes. I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving!

pauliegirl

[Sharon in Colorado]

Honestly I'm not sure many people here can help you. A couple people did mention they knew what you were gong through so you may want to try communicating with them.

Please don't take laxatives though! If you realized that your waste is going to come out anyway, it is not going to make the food move through you any quicker.

Listen, you body is going to utilize what it can from anything you eat. The rest will go out through your bowels and whether or not you take a laxative or do an enema, it will eventually come out! So, there really is no reason to take a laxative, if you think it is going to get rid of the food that you ate. Your body will process it and use it as it needs to.

This food will be properly utilized in your body so please don't try to get rid of it after you put it in!

Hope that helped.

[ReneeSC]

Pauligirl,

NO laxatives. ( shakes finger! ) - they're harsh, too harsh. Eating the raw food, drinking the amount of water your body needs, relaxing, ( lemon water helps in movements with some people)... will move the food waste through. But, this isn't about moving the waste through - this is about eliminating the ememy out of your body that you stuffed too much of down your throat. ( don't look at me like that! I told you I know where you're coming from ! :D )

Raw food IS NOT the enemy. Raw Food is your tool to healing. Raw food will help hone your control over time.

You have to switch the mindset from "I can't eat anything I want on raw and not be in control" to.. "On raw - I can adjust my body!"

Raw food is MUCH different than cooked food. It does not act the same in the body - so the control and forced control issues won't be the same anymore. That doesn't mean invent new ones for raw. :p

So... you binged. Okay. You probably needed to eat anyway. Everything you ate is good for you in some way or another. You just might feel uncomfortable with all of that suddenly in your belly at once. S'okay... there's always tomorrow. Right?

Again, transitioning onto raw food when your body is sick or is compromised can cause some discomfort - that's the detox and the adjustment period your body needs as it learns how to respond to the nutrition it's not used to having. Expect to have a lot of ups and downs of eating with raw. That's really just the way it is. One day you'll feel like you're starving to death, the next day you don't want anything to eat for a week ( not advised to obey ). You still need to feed your body.

If you have been downing any sort of refined carbs lately ( having been through the hospital outpatient service..or at home ), your pancreas is trying to keep you from starving..so it's kicking out insulin. When you pull off of carbs - WHOOOO.... all sorts of things can happen ( nothing earth-shattering... ). Many folks, of whom I am CHIEFTESS, feel like they can't eat enough..and will actually go into what looks like a binge mode. That's okay.. seems fairly normal for some of us. Just keep eating..and keep drinking.. Your body WILL adjust, but you must KEEP AT IT every single day you possible can.

You HAVE the control. Is right there with you, all of the time. Its just a matter of using the correct tools to work through it all.

[pauliegirl]

Thanks Renee, I needed that finger shaking. I know that as soon as the therapy starts kicking in and I get to the root of this problem, I will not have this idea in my head that food is the enemy. Cooked food is, of course, but not raw living food. My stomach is not used to eating all of that food at once and I think it wasn't combined for optimum digestion. My digestive system isn't totally up to par yet, so that food really made me bloat and feel like I gained 50 pounds. The problem is that I don't want to eat smoothies and blended salads all of the time. I am craving something heavier. I think that if I follow proper food combining for a few weeks, I will feel better. The problem is that Alyssa's chart is confusing me. I need someone to just list what foods combine well and what foods don't go together.

I am feeling much better and I have been trying to drink more water, which helps. I haven't weighed myself in two days and that is a big step for me. It's driving me crazy, but I think it's important NOT to look at that number and have it dictate to me whether I should eat or not. I think having the support form all of you helps so much. Thanks for warning me about the ups and downs of going raw. I will keep that in mind when I am having a bad day.

:D :D :D
pauliegirl

[ReneeSC]

'Atta Girl, Pauli !!! Yay!

I didn't weigh myself for ...oh...many years after I recovered from anorexia; I just KNEW that would just make situations worse and cause me to focus in the wrong direction. I weigh myself now - and didn't really start until I went raw - because I was trying to see how my body was responding to the new treatment I was giving it with live food. It was interesting for me - but it really was a roller coaster at first. The scale is relative, HONEST! It does NOT ( and I can't be emphatic enough ) measure how well your body is healing or how well you're feeling, or how well your clothes are fitting. I know that can sound trite about now - being that you've just started treatment and you have all sorts of things swirling around in your mind. But, truly - the scale is relative.

I'm glad you're drinking! Keep hydrating because it will flush out your organs and it will help to prep your body to heal. When we go into starvation mode ( our bodies, that is ), it will store toxins ( interestingly enough, just as when people over-eat for long periods of time ), so you're going to need to be in this mode, probably, for a long time. There's nothing wrong with that!

Food Combining: I am not the combination expert, by no means, but it's so hard to say what will upset your system at this juncture and if food combining would even have much effect in short or long term. Let me explain: As with what I said concerning your healing and with changing your diet when your body is compromised ( could be any-thing ), and you introduce raw food, your digestive tract ( just like you also mentioned ) will spasm, it will blocade, it will curdle and gas up...etc. That's fairly normal for many people in the beginning. Some take that as a sign that this way of eating just isn't for them and quit. Nothing could be farther from the truth!

What many do, instead, is to just eat whatever they can when they can with trasitioning to raw, with any amount. That will fly in the face of most conventional and some trained wisdom; because who would tell anyone to eat that way? But, because of how goofy our bodies can get on raw food transition, trying to put too many restrictions on it during that time could lead to further disaster. What you want is FREEDOM. If freedom still means that you count all calories, that you incessantly fret over combining, if you're concerned of fat intakes.... you're not free yet. What I mean is, if you're illness is still dictating your eating to the point where raw is now also the same challenge SAD was, you've just switched one control system over and made it work for another. That's why I say...KILL THE SYSTEM.. just get rid of it altogether and relax enough to allow the food to spark your body.

What if what you're eating is truly making you ill? Okay, that's when you can begin to adjust - or if you have any allergies or sensitivies. It can take weeks to MONTHS to get to this point, so be REALLY patient with yourself.

Detox: All manner of weirdness can occur. Do not be afraid of it. Raw food will not kill you ( lol ) - you're going to be tired, or hyper.... sad..mad..glad...euphoric, dancy, prancy, lazy, weepy, happy... because not only do your physical cells need to be healed, but so do your emotions and your mind. Lemme tell ya.... when emotional detox hit me... WOW..that shocked me. I'm still in it right now. I'm not having fun. But I know I have to get through this time in my life. Some don't have much detox at all. We hate them. :p :p :p :p ( just kidding !) We love them! We wish we were them! But for those of us who need massive amounts of healing to do all over our beings... raw food WILL do it ( spark it ).

Hang on, Darlin'.. cuz.. while this is going to be a bumpy ride, you've been introduced to a great gift of knowlege here with these raw folks, ... and I sure wish I'd had them when I was so sick. (waaaaaaaa!)

I'd still consider taking your own raw foods with you to your appointments and insisting they sit there and watch you eat it... I'd take a mug of smoothy ( make anything you want, but do try to make some green ones..I use a super food ).. and make sure you bring water, also. If they make you eat lasagna..well... sigh... eat some of it ..congratulate them on getting you to eat.. ( bah!)..and get your emotional counseling done. I would really like you to start training your mind to quit ..stop...override... the fretting about the food. Remember.. the food is the tool - its our beings that need to be dealt with. So.. keep REALLY good tools for the job.

Are you keeping a journal now?

[Lauraw]

I second everything Renee has written. Very well said.

Pauliegirl, I was heavily bulimic from age 17-22. Since then, it's been various stages of recovery. Only now, at 42, do I feel (on raw food) that I'm finally getting free of the binge mentality and the "was that bad to eat?" syndrome of thinking. It's a process. It probably won't take you as long to get there as it did me (cuz I ate totally SAD until about three years ago, and then various amounts of SAD until just a few months ago), but allow yourself some imperfection. Ups and downs still mean you're moving in the direction you want to go.

I eat sweets now, and I stop when I'm full. I don't obssess about them being in the fridge. I used to. I overate a bit (raw) at Thanksgiving and felt a little too full, but the next day I ate only when I was hungry...no big deal and no return to "failure" mentality. That's a miracle in my book.

You can have a healthy relationship with food. I believe you will.

Hugs,
Laura