smasty scares me [Archive]

kmik

11-17-2005, 02:27 PM

Rawkinlocs

11-17-2005, 03:58 PM

Well, let's look at it this way, do drug addicts or alcoholics live in fear of the substance or do they just realize it can't be a part of their lives anymore and just do without it?

See, we have it so ingrained in us that eating cooked food is normal...so, when we find ourselves wanting it or going back to it, we make justifications for it because it's normal...everyone eats it and maybe it's we who are weird for NOT eating it.

My mother was an alcoholic. She drank very heavy stuff. Some years later, because of complications with her liver, she finally decided to go and get herself some help. She was clean and sober for about 5 years until her 50th birthday when she had a big party and decided that a drink or two wouldn't hurt. Prior to that, she still enjoyed going out but she would either drink soda, water or if they had it, a non-alcoholic drink. But this time was different. This was just one time...her 50th birthday blow-out bash. She drank and has been back to drinking ever since :( Started out with "just a beer after work" and then "just beer" led to other things unfortunately.

Now, she's once again having health issues that stem from her blood and liver. Part of it is due to her diet and part is due to her drinking.

So, said all that to say this...she lived for years without drinking or (to my knowledge) not even desiring a drink from the way she made it seem. She just realized that it was doing no justice and eliminated it from her life...period. No fear of it, she still went around it, around people who drank it and was fine with what she had. But that one night...that one taste...is it ever worth it once you are free from it (and "it" can be anything you want it to be)?

I know that eating cooked food and alcoholism are two different things...but then again, are they?

sweet courage

11-17-2005, 04:03 PM

OK, it's not really smasty that scares me (sorry Sue!) It's the reality of addiction, as she has painstakingly documented in her blog an Alissa's site.

Right now, at 49 days, I'm really not struggling. Although I had some issues between July and September... since the start of this challange, other than a couple rocky parts that a few words from my friends helped my through, I've been feeling pretty confident. Although I feel like I have this "dark cloud" hanging over me, because I haven't been able to tell myself that I can never eat cooked again, for fear of totally freaking. So I've been saying that when the 90 days is over, I can eat cooked if I want... just a little though, not enough to revert back, just like one or two days, then get in to another challange. Well, that's what I've been telling myself.

So today I read about how Sue almost effortlessly glided through six months of raw. Then BOOM! It sounds like she's been pretty much struggling since then. She gets things going for a while, but it keeps creeping back in.

Now, if you're not "addicted" to cooked, and 75%, 80%, whatever percent raw is working for you, then you can't relate. But if the thought of losing control to cooked food terrifies you, then you're here with me.

What I'm wanting to know is, how do I deal with this fear? I know I'm good for another month and a half. I'm confident I'll make it to the end of the 90 day challange. But like I said, I've got this dark cloud over me, and that is the possibility that if I eat cooked, I'll lose control. I feel like I'm being haunted.

What do drug addicts do? How do they cope? I don't want to spend my life either struggling with cooked, or in fear of it. Hmmm, maybe I just need to go for counseling :cool:

But if anyone has a thought process or anything they can tell me, I'd love to hear it!
K ~

I've delt with exactly what you are talking about. I admit, it can be extremely frustrating. As a matter of fact, as I've mentioned here a few times on already, I'm back 100% raw after 2 years of failed attempts to stay raw. However, the only reason I'm back is because I had to learn to change my thinking. I had to learn not to put that negative vibration out there. If you say you are not going to succeed then you can bet you WON'T. If you are already planning to give up at the 90 day mark you will! No doubt about it...GARAUNTEED! You must remain positive and live each day knowing that you will continue to be successful the next day. If you fall off, it's not the end of the world. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. I've read where people have been raw 12 years before they've become 100%. You can't make falling off raw a fear otherwise you will turn into something that is negative and undesirable. What happens, you begin to spend your energy trying not to to fall off rather than enjoying the journey you are on and letting it take you places you've never imagined. Basically that is one of the side effects of becoming raw...not only do you cleanse the body, you clease the soul. It forces you to face your fears and the garbage in your life head on...which is why many people have so much resistance to becoming raw, whether they know it or not.

KMIK ~ stop thinking that you have a dark cloud over you and start thinking about the wisdom you've gained during this experience and how you can continue to manifest that into your life.

SweetC

Autumn

11-17-2005, 04:49 PM

<<because I haven't been able to tell myself that I can never eat cooked again, for fear of totally freaking. >>

Kmik,
What I tell myself, and anyone else who asks, "Are you never going to eat cooked food ever again?" I reply, "I don't know. I only know that I'm not going to eat it *today*" That is much less scary, isn't it? The todays add up and add up.... and I'm never nervous or worried that I'll "never" eat it again. I just take it day by day. The option is there, I just choose not to take it *today*. :D

Sweet lips

11-17-2005, 05:02 PM

Although I feel like I have this "dark cloud" hanging over me, because I haven't been able to tell myself that I can never eat cooked again, for fear of totally freaking. So I've been saying that when the 90 days is over, I can eat cooked if I want... just a little though, not enough to revert back, just like one or two days, then get in to another challange. Well, that's what I've been telling myself. But if anyone has a thought process or anything they can tell me, I'd love to hear it!

Kmik

:) One: I AM GLAD YOU ARE TAKING THE CLASSES THROUGH ALISSA!

Next - In Sue's days of raw - we talked and correspondence. I send this to you Sue as I am thinking about you often! ;) Secondly, she was extremly over busy and sometimes life has a way of getting into your life.

Staying raw - means as Alissa says in her book, when cooked food thoughts come in - change your thoughts. So, and please do not get offended, but if you think that way
I can eat cooked if I want... - YOU ARE GOING TO EAT COOKED FOOD AND BECOME LIKE THE EVERYREADY BUNNY - IT WILL KEEP GOING ON AND ON and you will end up in an abyss, constantly trying to climb out and being extremly hurt in the life you are living.

There are many things in my life that I used to do - that I know that I can no longer do - no, I am not so evolved to be tempted, but I have to constanlty remind myself of the good things that I have going on becuase of the changes that I have made - I am writing you today :D - and that may seen so extreme, but I want you to re-think where you are, where you want to go, and why the past never changes

You have decided to take the certification class (okay, I am in your business), at an expense (unless your last name is something like Rockerfeller - they still have money :rolleyes: ), and spread the word of Alissa Cohen, but also spread the words and experience of you - it will be hard, but there is something solidfying about being around a woman who had done this lifestyle for so long, but also to see her Husband and how he manages this as well and has healed.

I wish the best in this - from one cooked food junkie to another - I can tell you about this because I have seen the abyss - And I had to stop dealing with my physical and work on my mind - it takes a mind change to make it - what am I trying to accomplish - and Kmik, I love everythign about food- touch, smell, color, but at one point, I chose the easy way, bake, fry, boil, but why not natural. My mind is learning to say, " Eat for energy, eat for healing, eat for life! Somedays it is really loud and some days it is thumbs up and quite, and somedays, the sun shines to remind me, that I made it. I just thank God, that some one supported me enough to help get out and it was Smasty.

Gosia

11-17-2005, 06:01 PM

I do not mean to bombard you with stuff. I did genuinely find the information below, extremely useful in helping me overcoming my cooked food addictions.

Best,
Gosia.

Stuff:

Steve Carlson talks in depths about the emotional aspects which contribute to our addiction to cooked foods:
http://www.rawgosia.com/interviews/steve_carlson.html

Bryan talks about that too:
http://www.rawgosia.com/articles/bryan_yamamoto.html

More recently, I read a great story relating to cooked food addictions that helped me understand further that what I experience is my own doing. I attach it below:

Overcoming addiction to cooked foods
by Robert
(a post from Nora's Rawschool chat)

Hello Shari,
You said:
"I have been involved with the raw community for more than 9 years and still struggle with 100%. It is always 6 weeks almost to the day and I delve into cooked but only for a few bites. Something comes over me and the rationlization sets in "moderation is okay", "only one piece won't hurt". Today it is happening again and I have found I want fat & salt but in the form of toast with tons of butter. Any suggestions as to what might trigger this? 99% of the times I've relapsed it is on bread and butter. Celery and almond butter doesn't make it!"

which got me thinking, and that resulted in:

Welcome to addict shool! Another more descriptively accurate name for what human beings are doing to themselves in our modern society we like to think of advanced. It is advanced of course - advanced at turning ourselves into our greatest source of suffering.

Your comment of toast and butter reminded me of my years long struggle with bread in the beginning of going raw. I had no problem quitting alcohol, a quart or two of milk daily, cereal, pizza, chocolate and candies, and a host of other poor foods that were easy for me to get over, but then there was bread. It took years for me to lose the grip that bread seemed to have on me. I'm still amazed now that I've totally overcome those urges. I find it hard to believe I even had the desires of old, now. I'm very happy to be saying that, of course.

I remember in the first year how I'd occasionally eat a whole loaf of good old European style bread before bed. With honey. Or butter (I had never liked butter in my life, but going raw seemed to open me up to trying anything in my desperation. I even began fantasizing about yoghurt, cheese, and other foods I strongly disliked. Raw food seemed to be bringing out the worst in me!). When I first went raw, I did not go strictly all raw, as I wasn't quite aware of the need for total rawness then, but I was about 99% raw. After a year, I realized I needed to all raw. So I ate bread here and there, usually sprouted Mana bread, but let me tell ya, bread had a grip on me. Of course, I was coming from a life of eating loaves and loaves of bread. During the 12 years or so prior to going raw, I was eating a loaf of bread a day, plus other starches which I'll spare you the gory details of.

In getting over bread, I was successful by just not eating it for a few months. It took many tries, but that was the crucial action. Just not eating it. It was difficult. I worked long hours, made it difficult to go out and get any, tried to have no money on me, talked nicer to myself, ate more greens, ate less dried fruit, just grinned and beared my "cravings" at times, did alternate activities such as a walk or swim at those times, or anything else I could think of. Persistence at overcoming my addiction until I was over it was my best friend. I would do almost anything to get over that one big huge addiction. I'm very proud of myself now, since I know truly how large a grip bread had on me. I can even smell fresh bread now, and realize how good it smells, but I don't want it in me. It's like perfume to me. It might smell alright, that it's not food.

At the times I ate bread, it was like an avalanche of feelings and thoughts would overwhelm me. I seemed like a new being, out of control. It was amazing to experience. Where had all my control and intelligent thinking gone, I'd wonder.

I came to understand how my feelings and reactions to my feelings worked, and that helped me appreciate what the problem was. Basically, from time to time, I'd get myself into a vulnerable position where thoughts of bread or other food would suddenly lead to an exceedinly strong stimulating adrenaline action inside myself. I'd be feeling great, or not so great, and the thought of bread would lead to strong desires for excitement. And the excitement of eating bread I was well aware of and experienced in due to my life long addiction to bread. To get over the rush of feelings, I'd catch them early on, train myself to think other things immediately, do other activities, and eat other good things, like frozen bananas or dates instead. I didn't deny that I like eating bread and the thrill I got frmo them, I just realized the impact of where that lead and what it lead to. I accepted it. Doing that lead to calmer feelings of acceptance in me, instead of lower feelings of fear, or dilike, etc. This made it more likely that I'd not resort to bread to try and feel higher in spirits or energy. At other times I'd eat bread just because I felt so invulnerable, a bad habit of mine during my early days where I'd push myself hard all the time, accomplishing tonnes of activity or work, but at the cost of my long term health. Realizing that old bad habit helped me see I was doing it with bread eating and the excitation that comes from it. I wasn't taking my long term health seriously in those times, I was being negligent, foolish, etc. So I'd take on a calm persona, chill out, respect myself more, and otherwise practice better thinking habits in a moment of crisis (its always in the moments of crisis where it is really difficult to exercise new habits (talk is cheap when we're feeling good and things are easy), but when we do suck up and make the effort to follow the good behaviour, we recieve the biggest pay off in creating new habits).

One thing you can do is use your feelings and resulting thoughts more as indicators that you are thinking wrongly when you happen to think them. You will have feelings come up that may excite you to think, say, "gosh I'll have just one bit". Well, that's the mistake right there, and realize it seriously. Think another thought immediately, or do another healthy thing, and get in the practice of doing that, especially in the hard times. Re-educate yourself about your feelings and thinking practices. That can help a lot. The feeling wasn't wrong, because a feeling is a feeling resulting from previous actions. But the thought to eat bad food is definitely wrong (our cells don't suddenly like harmful food here and there). In other words, your thinking is out of sync with what your body is feeling. Many people think that their "cravings" for certain bad foods are actually a signal by their body as it uses feelings to get the food. In reality, the "craving" is merely our own habitual thoughtful misinterpretation of that feeling due to the (usually desperate) feeling going away as soon as we indulge in the exciting activity of eating (or other reactive activity that was not really needed or was inappropriate in the moment). It is by this way of misinterpretations of our feelings by our culture programmed thinking that we become slaves to our thinking habits (our mind) instead of listeners of our bodies true needs. Very often our true needs, especially during the transition to raw foods, are to remain non-reactive to our feelings (notably the "craving" feelings). We need to sit with them til they go away, especially at the hard times, even as the hard times become rare and well seperated. Old habits only die when we completely end their occurence by not repeating them. Cravings in truth are really only a temporary uncomfortableness that the body is experiencing and that the nerves are picking up as a person is adjusting to previous disturbances to itself. The disturbances have usually been caused by unhealthy food choices (since that is how people most often abuse themselves in our culture) though there are countless other ways we can abuse ourselves.

This brings to mind the thougth that you may be following activities that you may think are reasonable and consistent with good dietary practices, but which in reality are harmful practices that slowly lead you to develop these "cravings", such as eating foods in complicated combinations regularly, eating too often, eating in the morning before noon or so, eating too late in the evening, eating salads with herbs, sea salt, spices, or other needless stimulants, eating prepared fancy raw foods (as many in the raw food movement initially do in order to keep themselves motivated and sufficiently stimulated so they remain raw), and other habits that many do not realize are good as transitional habits, but not for long term habits.

We need to look to the rest of the millions of species of the world to see how they eat if we want to understand how our species should eat. I do not so much mean what they eat, but how they eat. Other species predominantly eat one type of food at a meal, they eat simply, they eat their biologically appropriate food, they eat only what they need, they don't mix all sorts of ingredients together, they often miss meals, they rest after eating, they stick to their preferred foods, and follow other simple obvioius habits. We can take a cue from these other species. Nature in its success works across the board. Humans are not a species in nature that, just because they've been eating haphazzardly for a few thousand years and less, will suddenly be non-subject to the laws of nature that describe and guide successful living results. In other words, eating simply, one food at a time will work wonders for us just as it does for the other species, since we are all made of organic living cells that originated from the same source and operate in the same general biological manner. Cells are cells, just as automobiles are automobiles and we can expect that a car with square wheels isn't going to move so well. That humans are alive today and that there are so many species out there is a testament to how successful nature is and has been and that nature's methods work very well when they are followed. We humans don't have to re-invent the wheel, we only need to correct our recently aberrant ways and return to sensible living practicesf, in all their numerable ways. Successful life beyond humans is all around us. We can be that way too, we only need to follow nature's successful ways. We are a part of nature, afterall. Unsuccessful ways include eating too much, preparing tasty complicated foods (thereby making it difficult for us to digest and assimilate the foods, which reduces our health, etc), and other eating practices commonly accepted as "normal" and good by modern intellectually mis-programmed humans. Our brains can be used to think anything --harmful ideas or beneficial ideas. If the ideas are harmful and we follow them, we'll feel the mistakes as unpleasantness. If the ideas are beneficial, we'll remain feeling good as long as we live.

Usually it is our thinking that gets in the way of our success. Many who go raw feel that once they start eating raw food, the job is done. In reality, going raw is about developing the habit of paying attention to our food choices forever and always improving and simplifying our eating habits til they resemble the habits of all the other wild creatures in nature, generally. Where we err, we will suffer, just as when we step off a cliff, we will get hurt. Nature doesn't suddenly make a bad move a good move for some specially liked species. We humans may have a proclivity to adore ourselves, but nature treats all the same and holds every living things to the same non-changing consistent laws.

It is difficult making changes after following one way for so long. Even if it is for the better. We often make ourselves dependant on a lifestyle or job or on feelings that we get from new activities, and then are resistance to giving up the comforts that those activities bring, even as they have damaging or harmful impacts on us.

If we are truly desirous of ending our suffering in all ways, or in attaining even better health or overcoming naggin issues or habits, we often have to reassess what we are doing, buckle down, take a new direction, face ourselves, suck up old unproductive thoughts, admit to mistakes, and otherwise get over our old selves and habits and create new behaviour that actually can lead to the goals we desire.

It is often when we hit a wall repeatedlhy that we finally make a decision to change. That is the case for most if not all of us in each area where we have trouble. We all need to give ourselves time
to really find out where we are making mistakes, if they are mistakes, and what the mistakes are. In going raw, there are innumerable mistakes that can be made, and it will definitely take time and experience and a willingness to go forth despite knowing
mistakes will be made to become successful in the long term. It is not a bad thing to make mistakes. Mistakes are normal to life. It is not normal or healthy to keep repeating mistakes once they are realized. It is normal to correct mistakes when they are discovered.
That is how living creatures or species in nature get along and live successfully for millions of years. It is up to us as creatures on the planet to stay attentive to our possibilities of making mistakes, to discover what our mistakes are, and to correct them for our own benefit. No one or no other creature can or will do that for us. Each is on its own in that regard, as it should be. That's part of
successful evolution. It's how nature works. Going against that means nature will not work. We experience the non-working of nature as bad feelings, frustration, low energy, sickness, lack of control, etc.

Personally I have come to enjoy my mistakes, just as I enjoy my successes. I enjoy my mistakes because I can use them to re-direct myself to living more successfully. They are learning lessons about how things work. And with how far humans have diverged from sensible, healthy, long term successful eating practices, there is a lot of oportunity to learn from mistakes that I've made and to thereby correct myself so that I can experience more health and happiness. I especially enjoy my successes, of course, and I try to repeat them as much as I can. My mistakes I leave behind as useable memories as much as I can. I look forward to others pointing out my mistakes, especially if they really are mistakes. We can use each other for that, even as many or most people are not correcting their habitual mistakes regarding their eating practices.

That's the end of this essay for now. I hope you didn't get bored and that you picked out what resonated for you and left behind what wasn't needed.

As a last comment, its good to stay with the facts we already know are definite, such as salt (such as table salt) is a poison to our cells. It never is needed. Thus it is obvious that the eating of salt is only being done for misguided intellectual reasons influenced by misinterpreted feelings. Our cells never want salt. It kills them. A person can only think they want salt. As I said, we can train ourselves to think anything, good or bad. It's up to us to find out the truth and stick to it.

Fat and salt is in foods, in forms that are part of the whole food. Removing the fat and salt from the food and treating them as individual seperate items is part of creating confusion and poor health. We need whole foods that are fresh, ripe, deliscious, etc. That is our food. Anything less, or more, is not suited for us. If the old way of thinking is not getting you the results you desire, then the correct action is to change those parts of the old thinking that are incorrect, even if it means giving up cherished thinking. Nature does not make it so that we need to hold onto beliefs or favoured ideas or needless indulgences in order to be 100% healthy, happy, blissful, fit, and engergetic. Nature only requires that we follow simple truly heatlth building practices. Nature freely gives
those, and life and freedom is automatically recieved by those who adopt natures successful ways. There comes a time to move on in improvement and to simplify. Nature demands it, if health is desired. It's how nature works. To deny it is to ask for poor health and continued suffering.

Okay, that is straight talk, I'm getting off on myself here, a lot, I think. I use this type of thinking to myself and even to others, to inspire myself to take natures' successful ways serious. Good health and happiness is a serious thing. It only comes easily when we do the right things. Nature speaks loudly when I make a mistake too, and I like that about nature. I take doing the right things
seriously, even if it means facing my faults and the embarassment or unpleasantness that brings. I love walking through my feelings, particularly the difficult ones, so that I learn how to process them correctly and healthfully instead of denying them or avoiding them. My feelings are my messengers of life, good and bad. I accept them and embrace them all for my own good, and I strive to use them in a way that healthfully benefits me in the long run so that I remain as secure as possible in myself in whatever expresssion or situation. Even when that means crying when I feel like and need to. Or laughing. Or shouting. Or getting angry. Or stern. Or serious. Or lighthearted. Or joyous. Etc.

A person can take a step away from one bad habit by introducing a less harmful habit, such as substituting a prepared raw food that simulates a former cooked food. But the day comes when that will not be enough. The person will need to take the next step of simplifying their diet more, facing the tough feelings, sitting with themselves instead of avoiding their feelings, and other things. Work can be done in other areas of life, such as taking classes that teach us how to use our thinking to modify our emotional behaviours and that help us develop understanding of ourselves. Our different activities all have impacts on each other. We can take advantage of the fact that we have one set of nerves that deal with all of our activities, so where we are improved in one area, that nerve improvement will help us in other activities that we wish to do well in.

Enough said before I explode :) Sorry for the major over- indulgence. Nora, what have I done. My brain won't quit. I'm a slave to my fingers! Oh please, stop! There, I've done it. The end!!

Hope you enjoyed the ramblings,
Robert

Sweet lips

11-17-2005, 06:47 PM

A person can take a step away from one bad habit by introducing a less harmful habit, such as substituting a prepared raw food that simulates a former cooked food. But the day comes when that will not be enough. The person will need to take the next step of simplifying their diet more, facing the tough feelings, sitting with themselves instead of avoiding their feelings, and other things. Work can be done in other areas of life, such as taking classes that teach us how to use our thinking to modify our emotional behaviours and that help us develop understanding of ourselves. Our different activities all have impacts on each other. We can take advantage of the fact that we have one set of nerves that deal with all of our activities, so where we are improved in one area, that nerve improvement will help us in other activities that we wish to do well in.

Very Well said - one of the reason that I like the verbiage part of Alissa's book - because it sets it up for you, along with the various quotes to walk a different path!
Kmick we are here to listen and for you to lean when you need - don't close off - stay open, it helps through the hard times! Smasty, you ought to come back and begin again - there is shoulders and chest large enough to hold whatever comes out!

kmik

11-17-2005, 08:36 PM

Rawkin, I don't know... what do other addicts do? The ones that get past and are able to just move on? I'm so sorry to hear about your mother... and that is my fear exactly. And no, I believe food addiction is not different from alcohol, or drugs. My husband thinks I'm nuts, but I do think addiction is addiction. Some things can kill you a little faster, but all can mess up your life.

SweetC, thanks so much for your enlightening perspective! (Are you going with us to Karyn's next Tuesday? :) )

Autumn, that makes it feel a little easier :)

SweetLips, thanks for all that. I too am very glad I will be hanging out with Alissa soon. I imagine that, in itself, will take some of my fears away. But you are right... I can't forget, you guys will always be here, and I will always have someone here to hold my hand if the temptations start to overwhelm me.

Gosia, um... still reading ;) but thanks in advance! I'm sure it's all good stuff!

And just a big thank you hug to everyone... I have a bad habit of putting myself in the place of other people when I read their thoughts and feelings (and don't put me in front of a sad commercial, cuz I'll cry!) But anyway, as I was reading Smasty's blog, I felt like I was going through all of what she must've been feeling. It got kind of uncomfortable at times. Probably good for me to live it through her, while I'm still sittin' here 100% raw! So thanks Smasty! You've helped me address these things ahead of the game!

jaurequi

11-17-2005, 08:42 PM

Hi, Kmik!

You know, I'm not sure I can be much of help, but I'll tell you the way I go about things:

To me, there is (should be) no fear surrounding something essential like food. Now, I'm not demeaning anyone's experiences, I'm just saying that for me, whenever I find myself fearing something, I know something is not right; after all, "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." Okay, that was corny :p but Yoda makes sense sometimes!

I see something like overall health, including eating as committments -- would I ever break a committment made to someone I love? Would I ever break a committment/promise to a friend? To my coworkers/peers/boss?? Heck, would I say I was going to do something for an acquaintance and NOT do it?
No. I'm one of those people who cannot let someone down once I've given my word. So why would I let myself down? Oh, I know it's easy to -- it's *the* easiest thing to do; but it's also the most damaging.
So this is how I explain to myself the ease at which I've been able to transition. It was the same with veganism; same with most everything in my life. Once I know better, I can't go back.

Don't know if this has helped you, as I know we are all made up differently. But, perhaps if you're like me, you may want to look at it as a committment issue -- that it is to yourself shouldn't diminish its status :)

Best,

dhammala

11-17-2005, 09:41 PM

Thanks for posting those links and that text.. Some good stuff there!!

fiddler

11-17-2005, 10:03 PM

Hi Kmik,

Have you read "12 Steps to Raw"? I can't remember if you posted that or not. Anyway, V. Boutenko documents how cooked food can be addicting. I found this book to be excellent.

I like Autumn's response by saying to yourself "One day at a time". Isn't that what recovering alcoholics say as well? It keeps things in perspective.

One thing I've found is that if I start off the day immediately with a quick glass of BarleyMax (a green powder drink from organic barley/alfafa plants), I get rolling in the right direction.

Also, be careful not to subject yourself to too many negative programs (i.e. TV, radio, newspapers, etc...). Paul Nison talks about how such negative programming creates fear in us (i.e. television programming, radio, news, etc)

Anway, Best of Luck!

Gil
I Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me". Philippians 4:13

11-17-2005, 11:01 PM

Jaurequi, I really like your comment "Once I know better, I can't go back." That is so true on such a fundamental level. It speaks to responsibility, accountability, and whether we are honest with ourselves in this journey.

deedub

11-18-2005, 01:42 AM

Great thread with many great words of wisdom. The thing that stood out for me was (and I did not read it all) in what Gosia posted, what I got out of it was do what ever it takes not to give in to a craving for something I know is not good for me and I may not have control over.

I think one of the many great things about Bill W. and AA is that they say the only requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking. This allowed people to belong even if they stuggled even if they stumbled and even if they fell. And the word desire is powerful as well. Because there is a lot of feeling attached to it and it is not willy nilly.

And finally may I say fear not Kmik for your are supported and loved.
Peace

rawpriestess

11-18-2005, 01:43 AM

Let me say this one thing

People who are addictive are just that, they have addictive behavior, and the ONLY way they can get over one addiction, without major therapy, is to substitute another addiction.

MOST addicts, will substitute religion, such as in the 12 steps of Alcoholics Annonymous.

Now, I'm not saying this is good or bad, as that is a judgement, but it is true.

So, you need to get hooked on something else, it can be raw food and the prep and classes, and collecting raw food uncook books, and taking more classes, and coming up with your own recipes, and exercising, and bicycling and mountaing climbing and kayaking, etc.

Or, you can go back to cooked, it is your choice.

It may sound way too easy, but it is the truth, ask anyone who has ever beaten an addiction, and you will see they are addicted to something else, well, let's say obsessed.

I am an obsessive person, meaning I take on something and I need to know everything about it, I live it, I eat it, I sleep it. If it is my work, then people say I am a work-a-holic, and am driven and focused, and make alot of money, and am determined and am tenatious, and am lucky, and and and.

If I focused on religion, I may be a preacher, or a saint, or a phylanthropist, or a benefactor, or very generous with my money or time.

If I am focused on anything, I can be obsessive, it's when it takes over your whole world and causes you pain that it is not so good to do.

Gambling can be like this, or sex, or cooked food, or alcohol or whatever, but you can overcome this, if you undertand the way addictions work.

Finding Me

11-18-2005, 01:53 AM

People who are addictive are just that, they have addictive behavior, and the ONLY way they can get over one addiction, without major therapy, is to substitute another addiction.

I can agree with that! I'm trading my smoking addiction for RAW!! Now that's a good trade!!

~FM~

sweetgoddess

11-18-2005, 07:53 AM

kmik, Alissa said something to me when I was struggling a lot in the beginning of my raw journey.
" It's about persistence, not perfection."
Persist and keep your desire and goal alive and in focus, and try not to judge the moments that you view as falling short. A complete change on all of your levels is difficult to make happen overnight. Experiences make that happen.
By realizing that if you persist, you will grow, it takes the pressure off. You do not have to strive to be perfect, for you already are simply because you exist. You would not be imperfect if you ate cooked food.
We often think when we do something that we view as not in alignment with who we want to be, that we are failing. Instead it serves us to realize those are just judgements we are making. There really is no good or bad, their is just our opinion of whether we want an experience or not. If a "struggle" does come up, realize it can be a very valuable learning tool for you. Persisting with your goal of loving yourself with a raw diet will slowly change many thing for you on all your varied levels of being. When that progresses, it seems to me an inner shift occurs and it is no longer a struggle.
When I look back at the times I made a choice that did not seem to support my goal--I can so clearly see how much I learned and essentially grew from those experiences. They were a gift! So, maybe with some contemplating and perhaps by adopting a different perspective of what a challenge like that would mean to you, the fear of said unknown can be discarded.

And, we are all here for you regardless of what your journey brings. Be assured, in the grand scope of your life journey, it's all good!

I can see your passion in your posts. I can feel it. I do not think you have anything to worry about. Trust yourself, that you can handle any situation that arises, that you can allow anything to serve as a tool. I trust that you can!

Big hugs and blessings to you sparkly soul. You are already "there" right now, this moment. The future holds nothing but growth for you, so do not fear it. The future is actually right here and now and you are thriving! Yeah you!

Blessings~
Carmel

Sharon in Colorado

11-18-2005, 08:03 AM

Everyone I know who has been "perfect" in the beginning has stumbled. I haven't met anyone who has stayed like that without a few potholes along the way. I agree with Sweet G - Persistance, not perfection.

Keep moving ahead and you will get there. Be more worried about not having challenges along the way.

LNdolls

11-18-2005, 09:00 AM

When I stopped smoking in 1996 - I did not quit smoking as much as I became a non-smoker. And after reading Gosia's post of Robert's brilliance, I finally understand where I have been most vulnerable in this journey going raw. I have been thinking I was quitting/giving up cooked food - and of course that is where my focus eventually lead me - to the cooked food. Whereas if I shift my thinking to this : I am becoming a raw food eater - well, that is a whole different slant and focus. I can discover what that means for me - along with boo-boos and slips and mistakes... I certainly did not have a black or white idea about smoking - I had a few cigarettes in my journey to become a non-smoker. So, I can forgive and allow myself a few cooked meals in my journey to become a raw food eater. And know that the journey is a process.. and remain open to new discoveries.
And what came up today for me is the idea of simple simple meals, no recipes, no fuss.. just good, ripe food ready to eat. I am going to see what that is about for myself.
Thanks for bringing this topic up this way!
Best,
LN

lodestar

11-18-2005, 09:22 AM

Dear Raw Friends:

Thank you so much for your inspiring posts. Your hearts are generous with experience and wisdom and I have benefited greatly.

Ariannah

11-18-2005, 09:58 AM

Who is Sue and where is her blog?
Ariannah

Sweet lips

11-18-2005, 04:43 PM

Who is Sue and where is her blog?
Ariannah

a great person and www.alissacohen.com

Ariannah

11-19-2005, 05:55 AM

I finally found it.
http://www.alissacohen.com/process_sue.html for anyone else as non-clued in as myself ;)

Thanks,
Ariannah

kmik

11-19-2005, 12:34 PM

Finally catching up with my reading!

Gosia, thanks for the highly insightful stuff!

RP, my husband's hoping maybe I can develop an addiction to sex :eek: but seriously, I must be on the right track because my father was wondering if this was like Amway :rolleyes: I'm like always trying to encourage him to do it, and trying to get him in front of speakers and stuff... now I'm off to California next month... surely I'm OBSESSED!

Everyone else... thanks for all your comments and support! Way too many to acknowledge individually!

I do feel my fear subsiding, and I'm confident that I will continue following the right path. I feel better knowing that if I stumble, all your wonderful helping hands are there to pull me back on as long as I reach out for help :)

karotw

11-21-2005, 11:48 AM

Wow - just wow. . . this thread is the answer to yet another prayer for me. I'm so grateful for all the thoughts and opions that everyone has shared here.

As a recovering alcoholic (clean and sober for over 6 years now) and a food addict and I can certainly say that the similarities outweight the differences. . .but for some reason my fear about drinking alcohol again has pretty much subsided. I don't desire alcohol any more and I truly can imagine living the rest of my life without drinking alcohol again. . . .

But food is a different story, at least today. I appreciate the response to "Will I ever eat cooked food again?" being " I don't know, but I won't for today". . .that is how I got sober and it seems to work the best for me with regard to food. Another things that I often remember when I'm looking at cooked food is "that's not my food, my food is raw and whole and nourishes my body". . . .For me the most success I've had with not caving to food cravings is being daily conscious - making a very conscious decision each morning that I will eat healthy food today - and with checking in regularly for support - even after I think I don't need it. . . .especially when I thought I didn't need it. . .

Anyway. . .thank you all, again, for you comments and suggestions!

Many Blessings,
Karot

kmik

11-21-2005, 12:45 PM

. . .but for some reason my fear about drinking alcohol again has pretty much subsided.
Karen,

First of all, outstanding! Second, thanks for mentioning this. This was one of my main concerns, that I'd have to spend the rest of my life running from cooked food. If that fear has subsided for you with alcohol, then perhaps my fear of eating (and mostly losing control to...) cooked food will go away as well. (Although it has already to some degree, with the strength the answers in this thread have given me!)

And also, as a person that has endured those two addictions, thanks for confirming that there ARE mostly similiarities. When I told my husband that I was addicted to food and it felt like a drug addiction, he just thought I was nuts.

I'm glad this thread has helped you as well... it's made a world of difference for me :)

karotw

11-21-2005, 02:03 PM

Kmik -

You're welcome! I'm glad something I said was helpful. Support is such a key for me with staying out of my food addiction. Let's all help each other as much as we can!

Many Blessings,
Karot

DavidZaneMason

11-21-2005, 02:51 PM

Hmmm....

Opinion:

-No one eats 100% cooked, processed crap. Even the die hard junk food junkie occasionally gets a pepper in his pizza! Ha! ha!

-Although cooked food MAY be considered an 'addiction'......harsh cures are often more damaging than the disease. Heroin addicts use methadone. Is this wrong? Somewhere between eating 100% crap....and eating 100% fresh, raw plant food......is a level that IS comfortable now.....to the individual. It is my experience / opinion that it is from this level that a person should start their journey. Even the longest journey starts with 2 steps in front of you. Why try to leap frog this?

-If one is engaged in a lifetime PROCESS....then there can be no failure. Only the failure to try ensures failure. Therefore any large break from a persons routine.....any thing that ensures a level of un-comfortability..........I believe should be avoided. I think the exercise credo: a good stretch...but not a painful pull...is in order.

-I think a person can utilize a healthy-food spectrum to eat comfortable and increasing amounts of healthier cooked food...and larger percentages of fresh, raw plant food.....as they become more comfortable.

-From my own emotional experiences.....I think is is JUST as important to be conversive with the PROCESS of healthy eating. Changing one's eating habits too quickly sets one up for an 'all-or-nothing' type mentality....that makes it easier to fail. This is just my experience.

-On the other hand.....a gradual process....when engaged in slowly and consistently....can always be sped up if accepted very easily. While a process that goes too fast.....sets one up for a so-called 'crash'.

-What do you think?

-David Mason

kmik

11-21-2005, 07:57 PM

David,

What do I think? I think that you've never experienced addiction before.

Edited to add:

And if you think 100% raw is a "harsh cure" then you've never been 100% raw.

DavidZaneMason

11-21-2005, 08:26 PM

I hear you. :) Been raw for quite a number of years.......and had my own share of emotional and physical addictions! For sure! :) My experience/opinion is simply that I've seen more successful, long-term healthy eating and lifestyle changes with those that have made more gradual and holistic changes in their life. Those that set themselves up for a long-term process....experience a whole lot less negative self-talk....then if they make a big change...and....completely go back at some point down the line. This was certainly the case with me.

-So much of raw food is also emotional....and psychological....as well as the physical components......as I'm sure you know.....that eating healthy often entails a LOT more than simply throwing away the cheetos and buying some Romaine! Ha! ha! (just my experience / opinion).

-I send you all green lights on YOUR road!

-With love & support,

-David Mason

kmik

11-21-2005, 08:48 PM

I've heard of people who can transition to 100% gradually, but never met one. I guess they're all by you ;)

I tried to transition between July and September. I tried to keep "healthy" cooked foods in my diet. But they always led me to the hard stuff. Food controlled me. I weighed 243 pounds... THAT'S when I had negative self talk. I hated my life.

Being 100% raw has allowed me, for the first time in my life, to finally have control. There has been no negative self talk as I've lost over 50 lbs and three sizes. I'm going with my family to a water park this weekend... I tried on my bathing suit yesterday, and I felt GOOD about the way I looked. I no longer look like a beached whale.

I can't describe how liberated I feel. If I had to wait and go through a transition period, I would have become so frustrated, and probably just ended up staying on my poor diet while thinking my situation was hopeless.

I'm sure the more time that passes between cooked and me, the more my fears will subside. Right now it's still a little like having been held hostage all my life and finally breaking free. You're going to be a little skiddish around the corners wondering if you'll turn and see your captors. But there's no doubt that you LOVE being free! I sure would hate to still have to be back there on the weekends, and have someone tell me it's GOOD for me!

Anyway, I'm glad you found a path that works for you, and I appreciate that you offered it to me. But I have found the best path for me, and there's nothing wrong with looking for a little help every now and then to stay on it.

DavidZaneMason

11-21-2005, 09:07 PM

Power to you! Oh yeah! A giggidy-giggidy! :)

-David Mason

tvillemom

11-28-2005, 03:30 PM

I wanted to bring this back up for a good (no I mean GREAT) friend! Thanks Karen for all you do for me!!
Wendi :D