Sauerkraut in mason jars?

[queenbee]

Anyone have any luck making sauerkraut in mason jars? If so, can you share tips and directions? I LOVE sauerkraut, but buying the unpasteurized stuff is costing me a fortune ($8.50 for tiny jar - and we are a family of SIX so it is gone instantly with one salad). I have looked it up online but haven't found any "real" testimonials on how to do it, and I get nervous about fermenting stuff (I don't know why). I'd feel better trying it if I heard from someone that's btdt. =)

Thanks!

[ReneeH]

Do you have RFFE (Raw Food For Everyone)? Alissa's sauerkraut recipe is FANTASTIC!!!! I haven't made it myself, but I had it when I went to Grezzo and again when I went to Alissa's Level 3 Class when her chef let us try it. It's REALLY great!!! If I make it myself I'll let you know how mi e comes out! :D

[DebB]

This is what we bought and have not regretted it for a second! No second guessing - no spoiled batches. You might like to do a search here on this, I know I've posted pics in the past when I was making sauerkraut..

http://www.perfectpickler.com/

I even posted about making your own perfect pickler. We did - we just went to a home brew supply store (locally) and got everything we needed for just a couple bucks. I posted about that too..

[SunshineMN]

Btw Deb, thanks for that posting. I'm going to try to make a couple next month when I get paid. I asked a friend (who has been brewing beer for the past few years) where he gets his supplies and he said there is a home brewing store less than a mile from me. I still need to pick up a drill bit that's big enough to drill the hole in the plastic lids, and get the lids probably from Amazon. I plan to start with sauerkraut, baby carrots and hopefully shredded beets.

Do you start it with a probiotic or just rely on the bacteria on the veggies? I'm thinking this time of the year it would probably be best to use a starter since the veggies won't be fresh from the garden and most of the natural bacteria will probably have been washed away before they get to the store.

I'll be taking pictures and posting them in hopes it will help others as well. I'm really looking forward to pickling my own stuff so I can use less salt, but I will use some sea salt, just not as much as recipes usually include.

[DebB]

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?65025-Pickle-Sauerkraut-and-KimChi-Maker-Canadian-source&highlight=perfect+pickler

I got the lead out and found the thread with the homemade pictures of the Perfect Pickler - thanks for the nudge SunshineMN!

You don't want that hole too big Sunshine - just big enough so that rubber stopper piece fits in - not as big say as the top of the stopper since it's tapered.

I can find that box of plastic screw on lids almost everywhere they sell Mason jars, they're getting quite common. I can even find them in grocery stores. Just a thought.

It's been a long time now since I've fermented anything, so just going from memory - it seems to me I did open up a probiotic capsule and add that to the 'broth' I used to top off the jars. The kind of probiotic I use / have on hand is this:
http://www.iherb.com/Dr-Ohhira-s-Essential-Formulas-Inc-Probiotics-Original-Formula-60-Capsules/3620

Yikes, that's gotten expensive - over $47. I used it because I already had it. I've been assured you don't need to use anything except salt. I'm pretty sure I've fermented only with salt.

One can also search YouTube for Sandor Katz and watch some of his videos on fermentation., I bought his book/DVD set and was disappointed in the video.

I've definitely added veggies like beets and carrots too - that's fun to do.

My favorite looking cabbage kraut is all green and then one small head of purple. The kraut will be the pretties pink when it's done fermenting.

I was looking through my files to see if I made any notes (I didn't) but came across this saved email from Mike, where I bought the Perfect Pickler:

mailto: mike@therawdiet.com


Mike Snyder
503-771-3904


Hello Debbie,

Thank you for your order! This email has some resources for the sauerkraut maker.

The instructions are located at
http://www.therawdiet.com/pdf/KrautInstructions.pdf

Video: sauerkraut tutorial,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i77hU3zR-fQ

I have sample recipes at the bottom of this page-
http://www.therawdiet.com/kraut_recipes.html

This article discusses the role of the Starter Culture-
http://www.viktoraslive.org/vikimchi.pdf

This page has a good review with photos-
http://www.rawfreedomcommunity.info/forum/showthread.php?highlight=sauerkraut&t=1110

A great pickle recipe:
http://therawdiet.com/blog/2008/10/10/real-pickle-recipe/

This article discusses the importance of keeping the food covered in the brine-
http://www.wildfermentation.com/resources.php?page=vegetables

You may need to add in more brine to the sauerkraut maker after a couple days. You make brine by mixing in a ratio of one teaspoon of salt per cup of water. Each day, for the first four days, you may want to open the jar and with a fork press down the cabbage to force out the bubbles. Re-seal.

Dr. Andrew Weil on kraut- http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/ART02021

Nomi Shannon's veggie kraut recipe:
http://therawdiet.com/blog/2008/04/19/sauerkraut-recipe/

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Best Regards,

Mike Snyder
503-771-3904

Sauerkraut
By Nomi Shannon, The Raw Gourmet

The place of fermented foods in a living food diet has evolved over the years. Many raw fooders make a fermented beverage from wheat or rye berries (rejuvelac) and fermented pates out of nuts or seeds (seed cheese). But people sometimes have had negative reactions to these homemade fermented foods, in part because unwanted strains of bacteria occasionally grow in them.


As well, people who suffer from candida historically have not had positive reactions to the fermented drinks and nut and seed cheeses. It appears that non-protein foods are safer to ferment. As a result, many alternative health experts now say that health benefits from fermentation are best derived from only the occasional use of raw sauerkraut. This is of course subjective, because many people sincerely feel that they derive great benefits from eating all types of fermented food. If you are confused by some of the differing approaches the bottom line is, has, and always will be the same: listen to your body.


Raw sauerkraut is used much like the delicious Korean fermented cabbage dish called kimchee- as a condiment served with the main meals of the day. Aside from providing important enzymes, the fermentation process creates bacilli that encourage intestinal health.


Raw sauerkraut is fun to make and the best part is that it lasts for a very long time in the refrigerator (up to two months) so you can make a large batch. If you have checked the price for raw sauerkraut at the health food store you will see how much money you can save by making it at home. Also, although the label may say 'raw', if the jar was sterilized or the food pasteurized it surely isn't raw any more. And if sterilization and pasteurization did not occur, you should wonder if the sauerkraut was kept cold at all times during its transport to the store.


Be sure that you buy organic cabbage to make sauerkraut. Cabbage is a highly treated crop and the thought of mincing it up and letting it sit in its own juices, including dangerous chemicals, isn't very appealing or healthy. It would be better not to make sauerkraut at all than to make it out of cabbage that is not organic. Fortunately, sauerkraut isn't just made out of cabbage anymore! You can make many different types of vegetable 'krauts', as the variations below demonstrate. Additional fermented food recipes can be found in books by Ann Wigmore and by Viktoras Kulvinskas, both of who are well-known raw food pioneers.
Red or Green Sauerkraut

Use the cabbages soon after buying them. As they age they tend to dry out and you need the moisture from the cabbage for it to properly and evenly ferment.


4 or 5 heads of red or green cabbage, organic

Seaweed (wakame or other), several large pieces


Set aside 3-4 of the large outer leaves of the cabbage. Cut the rest up into pieces and put through and grate it or put through your juicer with the blank screen. If extra juice is extracted, add it to the mixture.


While the cabbage is fermenting, it can have a strong odor. It is best to allow it to ferment outside of the main area of your home. In cool or very dry weather the process takes longer than in a warm humid climate.

Variations of Sauerkraut

Mixed Kraut

Once you get the hang of making sauerkraut-you may never use the same ingredients twice. The flavor and visual aspect of red cabbage is preferable, but sometimes one can only obtain organic green cabbage. Here is a variation to add color and flavor to green cabbage. Place 1 green cabbage, 3 carrots, 2 medium beets, 1-2 slices of onion, to taste, 1-3 cloves of garlic (optional) through a Juicer with the blank screen, or grate them all together. Stir in 1-2 teaspoons caraway seeds (optional), then layer the mixture in a crock with apple and seaweed, following the directions above.


Veggie Kraut

This recipe has no cabbage at all! Use whatever seasonal root vegetables you can get your hands on. It is difficult to make a sauerkraut combination come out not tasting wonderful, so be creative. Place 6 large carrots, 4 beets, turnip, parsnip or rutabaga, to equal half the amount of carrots used, 1 small onion and garlic to taste through a Juicer with blank or grate them all together. Layer the mixture in a crock with apple and seaweed, following the directions above.
================================================== ==============

Hi Debbie,

Usually you don't need to add more brine. It is natural for the brine to overflow and come out of the lid and airlock.

If you look in the jar and see there are dry spots without brine, you can add in a little salt water, and gently push down on the sauerkraut to help any stuck air bubbles float to the top.

To add the brine, you can just unscrew the big lid. You do not have to replace the liquid in the airlock, but it is okay if you do.

Yes, if you add more brine, you can follow the process like when you first packed the jar: make sure brine comes out the grommet and reinsert the bubbler.

Does this answer your question? Thanks Debbie!

Mike

======================================

[DebB]

Hmm - I got a message saying my last (large) post won't be available until it's been okayed by a moderator. Maybe because it has so many links in it..

[laughalways]

Thanks for the information and link. I've been interested in making sauerkraut too.

[Arky]

Back when I was able to eat sauerkraut, I was buying supermarket pickle jars, discarding the contents, punching a hole in the lid, and fitting a rubber grommet and a brewers airlock. Worked like an absolute charm. Absolutely faultless, with great results.

But if you wish to use a masons jar, you can adapt those, too.


Some related links:

http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/index.php/2012/06/05/introducing-the-jars-and-vote-for-your-faves/

http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/index.php/2012/07/03/sauerkraut-survivor-final-report/

http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/index.php/2012/09/07/sauerkraut-survivor-update-the-fridge-results-i-never-would-have-guessed/

http://culture-this.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/what-containers-should-i-use-to-make.html

[Arky]

Hmm - I got a message saying my last (large) post won't be available until it's been okayed by a moderator. Maybe because it has so many links in it..

DebB, this is a right royal pain in the butt. It's the SPAM filter in the forum software.

I have, however, found a workaround.

Just type ONLY 9 characters / letters into a new reply, post it, then immediately go back and edit it, pasting in what you really want to say. Usually works perfectly this way.

[ReneeH]

Hmm - I got a message saying my last (large) post won't be available until it's been okayed by a moderator. Maybe because it has so many links in it..

We appreciate your patience while we work out the glitch in the system. In the meantime, the Mods are trying to "validate" the posts that filter there. We check several times in the day, so if it goes to the filter, just give us time to see it and respond. Thanks bunches!!!! :D

[MysticTree]

I really want to try this kraut making lark. This seems like a good way. On the subject of moderated posts, I agree with Arky, it's a good work around :) The issue must drive the mods nuts so a short post saying "I will reply to this in a minute" which is unlikely to get quarantined and which can then be edited saves everyone quite a bit of time and trouble. There doesn't seem to be any obvious reason for some of the posts being quarantined.

[Arky]

I really want to try this kraut making lark. This seems like a good way.

I buy my pickle jars from Lidl, but if you don't want to have to punch a hole in the top, to fit a rubber grommet and brewers airlock, then an alternative way of doing it, without using an airlock, is to use jars with lids that have a rubber gasket and a wire closing mechanism, since these yield slightly to the pressure generated in the jar during fermentation, and this prevents the jar from exploding. Ikea sell such jars, but they're made in Indonesia and I don't know for sure if they are truly safe glass (they might be, but I just don't know for sure). Therefore, it'd be wiser to spend extra and buy glass jars made in the UK (e.g. Kilner), France (e.g. Le Parfait), or Italy (e.g. Bormioli Rocco Fido). Fortunately, for you, there is a stockist of such preserving jars right on your doorstep:

http://www.bottlecompanysouth.co.uk/

Please read the following webpage to see the various options:

http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/index.php/2012/07/03/sauerkraut-survivor-final-report/


.

[MysticTree]

Thanks Arky. I have a long standing relationship with bottle company south. They are lovely people; I recommend them highly. I also buy from Lidl. Gerkins in large jars are perfect.

[Arky]

I .... buy from Lidl. Gerkins in large jars are perfect.

But you know that commercial pickles are made with unhealthy distilled vinegars, right..?

But those are the same jars I use (I discard the contents and make my own)

They're nice fat stubby jars.

[Aleesha Sattva]

Hmm - I got a message saying my last (large) post won't be available until it's been okayed by a moderator. Maybe because it has so many links in it..

Actually...

rather than waiting for us to unmoderate your post... send us a link to the post in an email (by hitting the little triangle of your post or the post above it) and let us know you need it approved. MUCH faster as we see these emails immediately upon opening up our mail programs.

Thanks for your patience everyone...

[MysticTree]

But you know that commercial pickles are made with unhealthy distilled vinegars, right..?But those are the same jars I use (I discard the contents and make my own)They're nice fat stubby jars. I'm talking about buying the jars - the ones the gerkins come in are perfect.

[Arky]

I'm talking about buying the jars - the ones the gerkins come in are perfect.

OK, gotcha


The reason your meaning was a little ambiguous is because those jars are unsuitable for fermenting sauerkraut unless you adapt them with a brewers airlock, and you made no mention of that.

[MysticTree]

OK, gotchaThe reason your meaning was a little ambiguous is because those jars are unsuitable for fermenting sauerkraut unless you adapt them with a brewers airlock, and you made no mention of that. that's because I don't buy them for kraut. I buy them for sprouting. I mentioned on this thread that I'd like to try making kraut.

[DebB]

Actually...

rather than waiting for us to unmoderate your post... send us a link to the post in an email (by hitting the little triangle of your post or the post above it) and let us know you need it approved. MUCH faster as we see these emails immediately upon opening up our mail programs.

Thanks for your patience everyone...

Great idea - I'll remember that if it happens again ~

[Arky]

I'm talking about buying the jars - the ones the gerkins come in are perfect.



...those are the same jars I use (I discard the contents and make my own)

They're nice fat stubby jars.



...I'm trying to post a picture but, as ever on RFT, I'm being hindered from doing so.

SIGH...does anyone know how to get the forum software to actually accept a picture instead of repeatedly failing without even saying why ?



EDIT:

Am using Photobucket, as a workaround.

(these are the gherkin jars, available very cheaply indeed, from Lidl, in Europe. They work out at approximately $2.00 each, and are a really excellent size)

http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o700/BuoyantSee/Lidl_zps9bc0e208.jpg

NB: Righthand lid is for use after fermentation has thoroughly completed, since increasing pressure will cease to be a significant issue at that time.

[MysticTree]

I don't have a problem with pictures on here when posting from a computer. Posting from a mobile as I am now is pretty dreadful on every forum.

[Arky]

No matter what I do, I just keep getting 'http 500 internal server I/O' errors.

It's getting really tedious that every time I try to post anything on RFT, the forum software keeps throwing up obstacles...

[Arky]

Found the answer:

https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php/405212-Can-t-upload-images

[queenbee]

Thank you so much for all the information!! I am excited about this. =) I am going to read the threads (as recommended) - and thank you for all of the different links, etc. We will be eating up a sauerkraut storm here in a few weeks. =)

Cheers!

[walnutty]

OK, gotcha


The reason your meaning was a little ambiguous is because those jars are unsuitable for fermenting sauerkraut unless you adapt them with a brewers airlock, and you made no mention of that.


WRONG! Don't mean to offend, but you don't need a special airlock.

I watched this video on Raw Food Recipes dot com and make it the way she does - SUPER SIMPLE!!!:


http://www.rawfoodrecipes.com/video/523/make-your-own-sauerkraut21-raw-vegan-recipe.html

[DebB]

WRONG! Don't mean to offend, but you don't need a special airlock.

I watched this video on Raw Food Recipes dot com and make it the way she does - SUPER SIMPLE!!!:


http://www.rawfoodrecipes.com/video/523/make-your-own-sauerkraut21-raw-vegan-recipe.html

I've also fermented in just glass jars and plastic lids - no airlock, and had great success.

In the beginning though, it was all so new (and mysterious - wink), I didn't want to take the chance, which is why I ordered the perfect pickler. I was pretty leary and wanted to do it correctly. A lot of work goes into making a gallon jar full of veggies / kraut and I didn't want it to spoil...

[Arky]

WRONG! Don't mean to offend, but you don't need a special airlock.

I watched this video on Raw Food Recipes dot com and make it the way she does - SUPER SIMPLE!!!:


http://www.rawfoodrecipes.com/video/523/make-your-own-sauerkraut21-raw-vegan-recipe.html





No offence taken, at all :-)



To elaborate on my reason for saying what I did, my remark was specifically in relation to the jar type that Mystic & I were discussing. This is a glass jar with single-piece metal lid. The reason for this is that, yes, it is possible to ferment in such a jar without an airlock, but it's a safety & a quality issue.

As you know, the fermentation process creates pressure in the jar. Therefore, one should ideally allow some way for the pressure to be released, in order to avoid unnecessary stress on the glass jar. If your jar jas particularly thick glass, then fine, but in many instances, glass jars are not as strong as they appear. This is one reason why commercial sauerkrauts are pasteurised - so retailers don't get jars exploding on the shelf.


Also, in order to minimise the possibility of pathogenic bacteria, yeasts & moulds, competing with health-promotive lactic acid bacteria, during the fermentation process, one needs to ensure, as much as practicably possible, that air cannot come into the jar. Therefore, there is a paradoxical situation whereby pressurised air ideally needs to be able to escape the jar, whilst simultaneously preventing the possibilty of any air (& thus airborne contaminants) getting in. This is why I mentioned, in an earlier post, that lids secured with a wire frame are able to accomplish this feat. Such closing mechanisms have a natural degree of give/flex to them, which yields to air escaping at high pressure, but does not allow ambient air pressure to get in.


In the case of the type of jar&lid that mystic & I were discussing, the lid is not designed to operate in such a manner - it is designed to be either completely airtight, both inwards & outwards, or, if one leaves the lid a tiny bit loose, it will allows airflow both inwards & outwards, which risks potential contamination. Under such circumstances, one might get lucky & achieve good results, but the chances of success are significantly reduced. This is the reason why the traditional crude method of using a bucket can succeed, but often results in yeasts & moulds proliferating on the surface of the ferment. This is precisely the reason why the 'moat' method of using a water seal for the lid was developed, many years ago, evident in the Harsch crock. They didn't design that water seal without having good reason to make the effort to do so.


In terms of the video link you provided, walnutty, ( http://tinyurl.com/baktlb5 ), the jars she is using are of the 2-piece type, where there is a lid which does not secure itself but requires a seperate metal ring. This lid type can form a very strong seal. So it can work without an airlock but it's not particularly wise, from the point of view that pressure can build up within the jar, risking potential explosion. If one is happy with the strength of the jar being sufficient to overcome this, then fair enough, go ahead & it will yield good results.


There are ways of compromising to allow some yielding to fermentation pressure, even with lids that ordinarily don't permit any movement of air, in or out. One way is to use a plastic bag, which gets squeezed in between the lid & the rim of the jar. Another way is to use a rubber gasket, since this will yield to high pressure but not yield so much to ordinary ambient air pressure.


If you read the link I provided in an earlier post, you'll see that Lea Harris made a great effort to experiment with many different jar/lid configurations, & found very significant differences in the quality of the sauerkraut that was produced in each instance:


www.nourishingtreasures.com/index.php/2012/07/03/sauerkraut-survivor-final-report/ (http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/index.php/2012/07/03/sauerkraut-survivor-final-report/)


It's also worth mentioning that in that rawfoodrecipes link ( http://tinyurl.com/baktlb5 ), it is suggested that one may innoculate a new batch of sauerkraut using some leftover brine from a previous batch. Whilst this is, indeed, possible, & many people use this method, it is not, in fact, a good idea. This is because when sauerkraut ferments, it does so in several distinct stages, each stage relating to a progression in the acidity of the ferment, & an associated progression in which bacterial strains are most proliferating. Therefore, using leftover brine (or inappropriate probiotic capsules) in order to innoculate a new batch can interfere with the natural order of progression of the fermentation process, which relies upon specific strains of bacteria being predominant at differing stages of the fermentation process. It's well-intended but it's unfortunately analagous to 'putting the cart before the horse'.


This issue is described in the wikipedia sauerkraut entry, for example:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauerkraut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauerkraut)


This is also why I came to realise that my previous use of probiotic capsules to innoculate my batches of sauerkraut was an unwise thing to do, so now I only ever make it with either zero innoculant or (almost always) with a proper kraut innoculant, such as Caldwell's or Body Ecology (I prefer Caldwell's, but that's purely personal preference). The point is that Caldwell's & Body Ecology are intended specifically for fermenting vegetables, not for directly innoculating the gut.

Another mistake many people make (& one which I myself have occasionally been guilty of) is to allow insufficient time for fermentation to fully mature. This is because of the aforementioned series of stages. Some people ferment for just a few days, & assume that because the bubbling & pressure formation subside after 3 or 4 days, that this indicates completion of fermentation, but apparently, it does not. You can find this issue discussed in food chemistry texts (e.g. http://tinyurl.com/bb6sggj ), but it's also summarised in some articles on the web:

www.foodrenegade.com/3-biggest-fermenting-mistakes-youre-already-making/ (http://www.foodrenegade.com/3-biggest-fermenting-mistakes-youre-already-making/)

www.nourishingtreasures.com/index.php/2012/05/15/the-science-behind-sauerkraut-fermentation/ (http://www.nourishingtreasures.com/index.php/2012/05/15/the-science-behind-sauerkraut-fermentation/)

http://tinyurl.com/akhf9zz

Conclusion?

'Super simple' methods can work.
'Quick-&-dirty' methods can work.

But so can more considered approaches, such as:

Using a brewers airlock for certain jar/lid types
Using a wire lid locking mechanism
Using rubber gaskets to modify how a lid may yield to fermentation pressure.
Using a 'water moat' seal, as in the famous traditional Harsch crocks

& there may be sound technical reasons for making the effort to use a more considered approach.

Everyone has variations in the way they do their fermenting. My discussion of using an airlock with the single-piece metal lid type evident in the Lidl gherkin jars should, admittedly, therefore, have been a little less emphatic, but my emphasis on use of an airlock with this lid type was based upon an understanding of the shortcomings of not using an airlock with this lid type. This type of lid does have a little 'flex' built into it, but it's extremely minimal & therefore it does not, in its standard manufactured form, provide sufficient means of overcoming fermentation pressure concerns. One can manage without an airlock, but the odds of avoiding either explosion (if the lid is 100% sealed) or contamination (if the lid is allowed to be not 100% sealed) are much reduced without use of an airlock. A workaround for this type of lid (if one was determined to avoid use of an airlock) could be the introduction of a rubber seal.

FWIW, I do intend to try some ferments using the rubber gasket+wire-closed glass fido/le parfait/kilner type jars, when I eventually return to sauerkraut, as I am inspired by Lea's success with this method.

For anyone who is absolutely determined to use a totally-sealed, unyielding, jar/lid type, it's worth considering that the likelihood of explosion will increase as the jar size increases. This is due to the relative amount of carbon dioxide being produced by a small vs large batch, & also because a larger jar has more surface area over which the pressure will be able to exert itself, which is consequently a greater strain upon the glass. However, most people prefer not to ferment in small batches, so this trade-off can be quite a dilemma...


Anyway, sincerely no 'egg-sucking' intended, with all this. I merely wished to explain the reasons why I said what I did! ;-)


Whatever jar/lid type you use, & whatever method you use, I wish you the best of success!









I also wish to give props to Lea Harris for doing such a great job of researching the various jar/lid options, & for digging deeper, just as I did, on the topic of stages of fermentation. This topic of stages of maturation of fermented vegetables tends to be seriously overlooked, but it's important to understand it, if one is to achieve the most health-promotive results.

.

[DebB]

You're blowin' my mind Arky! ;)

[Arky]

This fermentation malarky is a really curious, multi-faceted thing, isn't it?

I wouldn't say it 'fascinates' me - my interest is purely from the standpoint of wishing to achieve the most health-promotive results, but I can nonetheless appreciate why some people (eg Sandor Ellix Katz) do become very engrossed in the topic.

I'd like to see people here on RFT post pics of their sauerkraut making experiences :-)

[queenbee]

You're blowin' my mind Arky! ;)

My thoughts exactly!! Thank you so much for all of the information. I feel a little overwhelmed, I have to say. I
We have 5 jars of sauerkraut fermenting right now - 3 in regular pint mason jars, 2 in 32-oz wire/rubber gasket jars. Hopefully they'll turn out okay. My DH just opened them to let the gas out and there was definitely gas leaving the jars.

My DH says he won't use regular mason jars again as it was more of pain to vent them as opposed to other type.

I haven't attached pics before, but I'm making my first attempt here...

9328

[DebB]

This fermentation malarky is a really curious, multi-faceted thing, isn't it?

I wouldn't say it 'fascinates' me - my interest is purely from the standpoint of wishing to achieve the most health-promotive results, but I can nonetheless appreciate why some people (eg Sandor Ellix Katz) do become very engrossed in the topic.

I'd like to see people here on RFT post pics of their sauerkraut making experiences :-)

I don't know if you saw the pics I posted a while back Arky - they're here (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?65025-Pickle-Sauerkraut-and-KimChi-Maker-Canadian-source&highlight=perfect+pickler) on post #11.
When I try a couple of Supa's suggestions (because I'm getting the same error message you are when trying to post - have you seen his new thread addressing this?) then I think I have more kraut pics I can share.



My thoughts exactly!! Thank you so much for all of the information. I feel a little overwhelmed, I have to say. I
We have 5 jars of sauerkraut fermenting right now - 3 in regular pint mason jars, 2 in 32-oz wire/rubber gasket jars. Hopefully they'll turn out okay. My DH just opened them to let the gas out and there was definitely gas leaving the jars.

My DH says he won't use regular mason jars again as it was more of pain to vent them as opposed to other type.

I haven't attached pics before, but I'm making my first attempt here...

9328

Great job queenbee! On the kraut and attaching the pic. Let us know how you like the kraut ~ it looks great :)

[Arky]

One thing I haven't yet found out is whether or not the lactobaccilus are impeded to any extent, if they're kept under pressure during fermentation. I know they do still proliferate under pressure, but I mean as a relative measure, I wonder if there is any difference between efficiency of proliferation between pressurised and unpressurised fermentation procedures.

If anyone happens to know, or finds out, please let me know; I'm always eager to learn :-)


Oh, and thanks for posting a pic, queenbee

[MysticTree]

I'll ask my mother. She is a retired bacteriologist. I hope she still remembers her stuff!

[Arky]

I'll ask my mother. She is a retired bacteriologist. I hope she still remembers her stuff!

Sounds like you've been holding out on us! :-p

[MysticTree]

Sounds like you've been holding out on us! :-p
I'm sure I have mentioned it before. Her background is in the dairy industry (I wonder if that will get the post quarantined?)

eta ... it went straight to the thread without complaint!

[Arky]

I don't know if you saw the pics I posted a while back Arky - they're here (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?65025-Pickle-Sauerkraut-and-KimChi-Maker-Canadian-source&highlight=perfect+pickler) on post #11.
When I try a couple of Supa's suggestions (because I'm getting the same error message you are when trying to post - have you seen his new thread addressing this?) then I think I have more kraut pics I can share




Oops! Apologies, Debs, I really don't know why/how, but I somehow didn't notice your post. Those pics look great! It's always a quandry how much space to leave, to avoid overspill of fermentation fluids through the airlock, isn't it? I must admit, I always cave in to the temptation to just fill the jar with celery/beet juice and knowingly allow it to spill over, into a bowl, just as your pictures illustrate. I'm happy to do this, not least because I am eager to drink the overspill juice (as long as I drink it very promptly, before it degrades or is contaminated).

[Arky]

During all the lively discussion in this thread, I forgot to mention that, as healthy as cultured (fermented) vegetables are, one should take care to not focus exclusively on any one type of vegetable. I'm enthusiastic about sauerkraut (it is rich in gut-healing elements, such as glutamine), and I must admit I tend to use the term a little more generically than I really should - almost synonymously with 'cultured vegetables' in general, and of course, the term 'sauerkraut' really refers quite specifically to fermented cabbage.

If you hunt through the RFT archives, you'll find a fair few discussions about goitrogenic foods. Brassicas are one such family of foods. The goitrogenic effects are said to be more evident when brassicas are eaten raw than when they are eaten cooked. Anyone consuming brassicas regularly, in their raw state, should always remain mindful of this.

Goitrogenic foods inhibit uptake of iodine by the thyroid gland. For moderate consumption of goitrogenic foods, the solution is to include plenty of iodine in the diet (by eating a little kelp each day, for example). But if one consumes brassicas to excess, even this solution will fail.

Generally, the advice, with fermented foods, is to not eat more than a tablespoon or two per day. The goitrogenic aspect of fermented cabbage simply reinforces the validity of this general advice when eating fermented vegetables, sauerkraut in particular.

So, don't eat excessive amounts of fermented vegetables each day - 'more' is not necessarily 'even healthier', and when you are making fermented vegetables, be sure to try a broad spectrum of vegetables. Thankfully, the process is very amenable to a huge variety of different vegetables.

It's really nothing for anyone to be worried about; it's just something to be mindful of. As always, everything in moderation!


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[kitlynne]

Arky,

I"m glad that I was able to catch up on this thread! I love sauerkraut, the husband not so much. >< Now I have ideas on what to do to get myself some by my own hand. :D

[Arky]

I want to update my most recent post, above, to point all of you to some new information Supa kindly provided to me in another recent thread. I don't yet know which of the various experts is correct, but the information Supa pointed me to does appear to contradict the 'long-accepted wisdom' that brassicas are goitrogenic. This is not the first time I've witnessed controversy in this area (for example, I am given to understand that the Weston A Price foundation used to assert that fermentation nullified goitrogenic compounds in cabbage, but later reversed this position).

Whatever the case, you all deserve to have the various viewpoints presented to you, so you can draw your own conclusions about the issue. In the spirit of supporting RFT members to do this, then, I hope I'll be forgiven for providing a link to their website, even though their overall ethos is non-vegan, since the article in question is entirely about cruciferous vegetables, and is a very informative one:

http://tinyurl.com/d3sq2wv

...and Supa provided a link to the opposing viewpoint, re' goitrogenic properties of brassicas/crucifers, in the following thread (thanks again, Supa):

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?71417-Fruits-Veggies-amp-Nutters&p=714830#post714830



Happy reading!


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[Arky]

Just a quick note to mention that Mercola is currently testing a proprietary starter culture for fermented vegetables, with the aim of achieving high levels of Vitamin K2 in the culture, so that's one to keep an eye on.

[CaraS]

I use regular mason jars to make sauerkraut and once I learned a couple tricks from the fermentation master, Sandor Katz, I haven't had any trouble with it.

The trick is to make sure to massage and squeeze the cabbage and salt until when you pick up some cabbage and squeeze it, it looks like you're wringing out a sponge. Then you pack it as tightly as you can in a mason jar - a bit at a time and keep pressing it down. Make sure that there's liquid above the cabbage when you put the lid on. Put the jar in a cool, dark place and in about a week you'll have sauerkraut. I like mine to ferment longer - how long you ferment is really up to you. Once the jar is open, keep it in the fridge and still try to keep the liquid above the kraut.

Super easy, super cheap and super good for you!

[PunkRotten]

I just made a 1/2 gallon worth of it. I used green cabbage and daikon. I usually just chop up all veggies and put it in a huge bowl. I add salt (in this 1/2 gallon case I used 2 tablespoons) and let sit for 10 mins. After that just message the hell out of it and squeeze the juice out. Then I start filling the jar and as it get to the top I push it and pack it down until the liquid is above all solids. Put a lid on and let ferment for 10 days minimum.