Article on the Andressohn's

[Carolyn]

I just read this article on our newspaper's website, Florida Today. It's an update on the Andressohn family.

(I hope it's ok to post this here ... I wasn't quite sure what area to put it in, but since it's related to raw, I thought this would be ok.)

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051104/BREAKINGNEWS/51104003

[theresaann]

wow-this is such a highly charged, pivotal, ground breaking, precedent setting case. It's amazing to see the clash of ignorance vs. awareness. Wow. It's sad how far away most americans are from nature, from nurturing their own bodies, never having been fed a natural diet themselves. I feel so sorry for people who can't see. it breaks my heart. OM AH HUM.

[blessed]

This article shows both sides and it's good to see some postive information coming forth concerning a healthy diet of raw food.
Also I'm glad to see that they now are forcusing somewhat on the disability that the baby was born with.
Well I've said enough, thanks so much for posting the article.
The family has a long battle ahead of them. So glad they have the support they need.

Ann

[Carolyn]

You're welcome, Ann! I was happy to see that the medical 'expert' has stated that the baby wasn't malnourished, and it had nothing to do with the raw diet. That was excellent! I just pray this family can get back together and put this tragedy behind them. It's so sad that it even happened. :(



This article shows both sides and it's good to see some postive information coming forth concerning a healthy diet of raw food.
Also I'm glad to see that they now are forcusing somewhat on the disability that the baby was born with.
Well I've said enough, thanks so much for posting the article.
The family has a long battle ahead of them. So glad they have the support they need.

Ann

[blessed]

Hi,
Could you please keep us posted on what is going on with the family.
I have talked with them in the past before their court date and they were upbeat and encouraged.
We were getting a day by day court report on their case but the network has moved onto other cases.
Knowing a little bit of what they are going through makes me close to them in spirit.
Thanks so much.

Ann

[Carolyn]

Hi Ann,

Hopefully since this is a high profile FL case, our paper will continue to have updates. I'll keep watching for them, and will post anything else that I find!

Carolyn :)




Hi,
Could you please keep us posted on what is going on with the family.
I have talked with them in the past before their court date and they were upbeat and encouraged.
We were getting a day by day court report on their case but the network has moved onto other cases.
Knowing a little bit of what they are going through makes me close to them in spirit.
Thanks so much.

Ann

[Carolyn]

Just saw this breaking news story on FL Today ...

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051107/BREAKINGNEWS/51107009

[squidly]

thanks for the update - good they did not get prosecuted for manslaughter but the article is certialy biased at blaming the raw food lifestyle as being considered neglect to the children - not good!

[blessed]

Thanks Carolyn,
It's good to see them walk out of that courtroom together. They stayed together throughout the ordeal and they are together now. Wonderful example of when trouble comes your way you must stand strong and not faint.
I am not surprised about the other charges, State Officals as I have found out view Vegetarian/vegan diets as CHILD NEGLECT. Of course we know that is not at all true they still believe that the SAD is best for children.
As I have said all along, this is where they fail they refuse to be educated about our lifestyle holding onto the old food charts ideal of a healthy diet ever though they are outdated. Sadly many many of our parents are facing what this family is facing but not to the extent of possible jail time.
Thank you so much for the update.
God Bless You for the time you took to put it on this forum.

Ann

[Carolyn]

Thanks, Ann, :) and y'all are very welcome! I'm glad our paper is actually covering the story somewhat! (I'm a bit surprised!) It was very good news in part, but I really hate that they took potshots at this lifestyle. Why people consider it a "fad" or "weird" is totally beyond me. (And going to Mickey-D's every day for two or three meals is "normal"?!?!?!) :eek: Yeah, right ... NOT ....

My mini-rant for the day ... :rolleyes:

[blessed]

Hi Carolyn,
It seems that people of more accepting of the lifestyle they are living. Everything else is strange to them and therefore we have situations leading up to problems that we are seeing in today's society.
Now if there is a severe enough illness then some of these people may be forced to change their diet but they usually wait until they are almost on their death beds to do so.
It's been said that old habits die hard but Carolyn when it comes to my health it didn't take a brick house to fall on me.
Sadly parents who choose to raise their children in a healthy manner are looked upon as strange and odd by many people. If you choose not to let your child attend another child's birthday or if you send your child with treats that are different from the other children this is viewed as odd and unnecessary because sugar and white flour, dyes in the icing and etc. are okay and you are going too far with your dietary practices.
It's so easy to be singled out and that's why it so important to have forums such as this on that can give advice and support.
Thanks again.

Ann

[rawpriestess]

It would be nice if we could all get along, and totally accept each other's way of life.

It would be even nicer is we all got along and understand each other's way of life.

You see, I choose to live in the country, grow my own food, be a nudist, wear Birkenstocks when necessary, have no TV and paint and write and enjoy life, live in a big house that I own, and generally not make much of a fuss about political issues, because I choose to not even vote.

However, I understand, how exciting and exhilerating living in the city can be, with a taxi at your fingertips and all kinds of stores and restaurants within a block walking distance. I can see the beauty in being able to go to the ballet or the theater and get all dolled up and go out to gourmet dinners, not even own a car, because you take a taxi everywhere, and even be politically active, and maybe even an extremist, and not ever having to cut the grass. LOL

You see, I can see the joy and beauty in either life style, however it isn't because I just landed upon this earth In my India Cotton dress, I made a conscious decision to live like this, after I lived in the suburbs for years, and worked in an office, and lived in an apartment (1 year only--I learned fast), But I can see the beauty in all lifestyles.

It would be nice if SAD food eaters could at least accept if not understand our RAW lifestyle, but it would be also nice if us RAW lifestyle people could understand the SAD lifestyle too.

Just because they are different, doesn't make them wrong. It just makes them different.

[blessed]

Sadly we don't. Which I choose to look at things in a positive light, so whild I can accept others and their lifestyles and not become upset that they don't think the way I think or live their lives the way I live mine, it is not always true of others.
Many people I have found are so bored with their lives that they feel they have a mandate to live others lives for them. They compare other families to their own and other children to their own and where they begin put them side to side the differences can be a call to action for them so to speak.
They (some) feel like they must give their opionion and their views whether it's wanted or not.
I am glad to say I am open minded in that I can let others live their lives without forcing my views on them.
What an ideal world it would be if others minded their business and lived their lives to the fullest because there are only 24 hours in a day and if you take care of your household and whatever else you have to do and do it well you would find that anytime left over would be valuable time for YOURSELF. Ann

[Doe]

Carolyn,

Have you heard anything?

[Carolyn]

Hi Doe,

I haven't seen anything yet. I always check the breaking news thru the day (mainly to check to see what's going on out there storm-wise), but they haven't had a thing on it. I hope that no news is good news!! I'll keep my eye out for you, tho'! :)




Carolyn,

Have you heard anything?

[dhammala]

Their next trial date is in December.. I have a news alert on Google to email me when they hit the papers again. (http://news.google.com and then search for Andressohn and then click on news alerts on the left hand side.. really cool service!!)

[blessed]

It is sad to know that even though they have won the fight the war is not over. Our dietary lifestyle is still on trail.
To know that other raw vegan families could face what this family still has to face is WRONG.
I don't believe that there is a jury in these United States that would convict parents for feeding their children hotdogs and porkchops and all the other nasty foods that we are being told are good and necessary for the health of a child. We know what these foods will do to the health of a child but they can take a raw vegan to court and pass judgement against them for feeding their children healthy food.
It's past time ,we can't :mad: :mad: take this lightly, it's not a good sign.

[rawpriestess]

Okay, I may get "bashed" here, but this must be said.

"Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are NOT out to get you"

What I mean by this, is just because they were feeding their children raw, does NOT mean they were not neglecting them

This just occured to me in the middle of the night.

They might be raw foodists and all, they might be very natural parents, and they might have been feeding their children super healthy almond milk and fresh fruits, but then again, they might have been neglecting their children too.

Just because they are raw foodists, doesn't make them great parents. I know I certainly wasn't the perfect parent, I don't think anyone is perfect, but I think we all do our best.

Howeve, this trial is a GOOD thing, it brings the raw lifestyle out into the public eye, and although there may be mis conceptions about raw food, we have the opportunity to change those mis conceptions.

Jinjee and Storm and Rhio are very active in support of this particular situation and quite active in the support of the trial. I believe (at one time) they were asking for monitary contributions for the Andreeson's attorney's fees and such.

You see, when something like eating raw food, is brought out into the open, we each have an opportunity to educate the people around us. When someone is commenting on what they "have heard" which usually has no basis in fact, we have the knowledge to help educate that person, and they in turn can help educate others.

When something is made mainstream, it can be a very powerful tool to get the word out to the masses.

So, although it is a terrible ordeal for the Andreeson family, they made the conscious choice to feed their children this way, as many of us have, and each one of us has the opportunity to educate all the people that we come in contact with.

Raw food may never have entered anyones' mind unless this trial became so public.

But, I choose to send them love and light, and "let the truth be known" energy, instead of fear and concern.

Blessings to that one family, who is helping to change our entire world.

[Ariannah]

Okay, I may get "bashed" here, but this must be said.

"Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are NOT out to get you"

What I mean by this, is just because they were feeding their children raw, does NOT mean they were not neglecting them.

Well said, RP. I've read some testimony that they used to punish their children for saying they were "still hungry". You can underfeed and neglect children on cooked, raw, vegan, vegetarian, McDonalds 8 days a week.

It reminds me a few years ago of a man who fed his infant only Rice Dream and nothing else. The headlines said "Infant dies on vegan diet!" - the shock value was tremendous. One would have thought from all the hoopla and attacks on vegan diets on all the boards I saw after that, that they didn't read the article below it, which stated the child was only fed Rice Dream. That is not your typical vegan diet, eh.

I don't believe in all the wheat grass enemas the children had to be subjected to, nor the alleged whippings they received for asking for seconds, but I do believe that when a child says they are hungry, they should be offered some food.

~Ariannah

[rawpriestess]

Ariannah,

I agree, that if a child, well, heck, if anyone is hungry they should be fed.

I don't agree with enemas, I believe they are invasion to the body, and when done to a child, I believe they cause sexual disfunction (my opion) and I don't see how NOT feeding your children can be good for them.

I don't know these people, and I don't believe everything I read.

I just woke up in the middle of the night, with this "thought" and had to write it down for people to read.

I wish them well, all of them, I hope their family can get back together, but mostly I wish the children a happy and fulfilled life with plenty to eat, raw or otherwise, although I believe in eating 100% raw, I believe in being happy first.

[GlimR]

People have a tendency to "jump on the bandwagon" either in support of a cause or against something. In my opinion this trial IS NOT about the raw food way of life and that seems to be what everyone's focus is on...what it IS about is that a child who depended on the common sense of her parents to make choices for her that she could not make for herself is dead.
I am astounded by the fact that in the rush to keep the raw lifestyle from being bashed we overlook the obvious.
I wish them well, but think it foolish as hell to be blinded by some holier than thou attitude and refuse to see the bigger picture because of it.

[Mike]

Hello friends,

Rhio (author of an amazing recipe book) just put up
an update to her hotline. She discusses the Andressohn's case=>

http://www.rawfoodinfo.com/hotline/Nov05_hotline.html

[shakalover]

i didn't realize there was a thread, and posted some more info http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=73185#post73185

[Rawkinlocs]

Wow, there are many strong opinions about this whole case and I'm not sure we even have ALL of the facts in order to form a complete opinion about it. I also wonder if stories are getting mixed up. I watched the trial and recall them saying the kids were spanked for asking for cooked foods (which is still very wrong); but hadn't heard they were spanked for asking for seconds. **shrugs**

One thing for sure is this...the child died and that's the most unfortunate part of this whole ordeal. It's unfortunate for the baby who is no longer here...it is unfortunate for the parents who have LOST their baby...it is unfortunate for the children who lost their baby sister and now may even lose their parents. The question is, DID the child die due to what her mother fed her (or didn't feed her) or did she die due to DiGeorge Syndrome?

I read up a little on it and here is a blurb from the site:
If an infant with severe DiGeorge Syndrome survives the neonatal period (first 4 weeks of birth), he or she might exhibit increased susceptibility to infection, characterized by chronic runny nose, recurrent pneumonia, including Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia, oral candidiasis, (thrush), mucocutaneous candidiasis, diaper rash, and diarrhea. These patients are weak, fail to thrive, and may be susceptible to sudden death.
http://npi.jmfworld.org/patienttopatient/index.cfm?section=patienttopatient&content=syndromes&area=3&CFID=2813523&CFTOKEN=39718732

I read the autopsy report on Court TV and it said (amongst other things of course) she had no thymus gland, was very weak and before she passed she had cold-like symptoms and breathing difficulty.

Now my question is this...would there be a trial going on right now if baby Woyah indeed had DiGeorge Syndrome (lack of thymus gland) and Lamoy and Joseph fed their children a typical diet, had the fridge stocked with milk, cheese, meat...cupboards with canned goods, rice, cookies and chips? Would there be a trial right now if when the baby was found she was the total opposite of what they found...instead of a 6-month old baby who looked like an infant, she was a 6-month old who looked like a 2-year old due to being overweight? Would we even be discussing this had the other children been chunky and chubby rather than thin? I mean I see children all the time who are terribly overweight and people may scoff at them (the parents), but I have yet to hear of anyone calling Child Services on someone for OVER feeding a child or allowing children to eat a whole lot of junk food! NO...take them to the doctor overweight and the doctor just say, "You need to cut back on this or that and make healthier choices"...but bring an underweight child in and then they get really concerned and may even investigate you...especially if they find out you are vegan or raw vegan!

See, my whole thing is this...ANY-time something happens and there is something going on that is against the norm, there is such deep investigation. I mean, I know that deaths are investigated, period, especially when it involves children. But 9 times out of 10, it doesn't result in what is going on here with this family. I've mentioned this before and I'll mention it again in this thread...I had a teenaged uncle who was slightly overweight. He was playing ball at school, had a heart attack, collasped right there in the gym and died. It made the local news and papers...but my grandfather and his wife were not scrutinized.

One other scenario that doesn't quite relate, but in a way it does to prove my point about how people will not give a second thought about one thing, but will about another IF it goes against the grain.

Homeschooled children and public schooled children. If a homeschooled child had some issues with learning and didn't know xyz, best to believe that someone is going to say it's because they're homeschooled and they NEED to be in public school (my mother in law did this to my kids when she asked them something and they didn't know the answer). But let a child in public school not know xyz and it's, "Oh well, they must not be studying".

My oldest daughter was a late reader (totally contrary to my son who was reading at age 4)...but my inlaws said it was because of her being homeschooled and "Cherie's not a teacher and doesn't know what she's doing" But my public-schooled little brother who is the same age (12 soon to be 13) and is reading at a 3rd grade level..."Oh he just needs Special Education"

See what I'm saying here?

So, while it IS important not to try and "protect" an ideal or a lifestyle and in doing so, ignore the big picture...we do understand that raw foods IS on trial because that is what the media is making it out to be..."Child dies on vegan diet"..."Living Foods Death"...these are headings I've seen on the Court TV website regarding this trial.

As a parent, I know that my inlaws who already think our way of eating is extreme, the daycare worker friend of ours I mentioned once before who gave my husband a big box of food containing meat, canned stuff, cookies, etc. all the while saying, "That diet is fine for you, but those kids need nutritious stuff...HERE take this!"...these people are hearing about this trial and saying to themselves, "Umm hmmm....see, I told Cherie and them that they need to feed those kids "regular" food! This diet they're on killed that baby!"

My kids are healthy and I try to make sure I give them what they need...even still nurse my 2 year old. But God forbid something suddenly occurs that results in one of my children's death that had absolutely nothing to do with how we eat because it would then be my husband and me in that court room awaiting our fate.

So again, what actually killed baby Woyah? Lack of breastmilk....being fed the diluted wheatgrass juice and seed milks....not being taken to the doctor....the lack of thymus gland...or all of the above? We really don't know all the facts and the whole truth at this point and will we ever?

[Sharon in Colorado]

I have 3 children and they do not get spanked or reprimanded for saying they are hungry or wanting seconds or cooked food, but sometimes they don't eat what's given to them (dinner or whatever - whether it's cooked or raw) and then walk away from their half-eaten dinner and 1/2 hour later whine that they are hungry.

I think it is a bit presumptious to always take the child's side. I don't know this family's personal situation or what went on in that home but these public cases always seem to take the children's side and shake a finger at the "irresponsible" parents, like they are monsters. Yeesh, we have it good here in America, the freedom to feed our children any kind of diet, not scrounging around for a rat to barbeque like in other countries with families going through garbage dumps looking for scraps. Sorry about the rat reference but I've seen this with my own eyes, and it's terribly sad.

So when my kids say they are hungry, and I will offer them an apple "no, don't want that"... a banana "no don't want that" or a cookie "ya, that's what I want"...that is nothing new to a parent. When a child is really hungry, he's going to eat the food that the parent made for him, whether it's some kind of cooked concoction, or a salad.

Most 2 year olds will eat nothing but their milk for days on end. Does any parent of a 2 year old not recall going through this? Plus children will nibble on the littlest thing every 1/2 hour...that's just the way they eat.

Children do need our guidance with their food. Gentle guidance, but guidance nevertheless.

[Ariannah]

So when my kids say they are hungry, and I will offer them an apple "no, don't want that"... a banana "no don't want that" or a cookie "ya, that's what I want"...that is nothing new to a parent. When a child is really hungry, he's going to eat the food that the parent made for him, whether it's some kind of cooked concoction, or a salad.

Most 2 year olds will eat nothing but their milk for days on end. Does any parent of a 2 year old not recall going through this? Plus children will nibble on the littlest thing every 1/2 hour...that's just the way they eat.

Children do need our guidance with their food. Gentle guidance, but guidance nevertheless. I have the same experience with my children. My 4 year old is currently the one doing that. "I'm hungry". Well have a banana. "I don't want a banana I want raisins" (which are not in the house at the time). Either have the banana or don't, because that is what I am offering. She'll then carry on with what she's doing and then half an hour later ask for the banana, take 3 bites and then offer the rest to her brother and sisters. But the point is, when they express they are hungry, I don't ignore it. (unless the next scheduled meal is in like 20 minutes or so hehe).

I do wish I could find the source ( I read so many articles on that case - with a google search - that it's hard to find it) but I seem to recall that the children were allegedly either spanked or punished in some way for indicating they were (still?) hungry. And now having someone express doubts about that is leaving me with doubts that I myself even saw that. If I am in any way wrong, please accept my most sincere and deepest apologies. I generally tend to be careful about what I write.

At any rate, I should disclaimer, that my opinion is based on what I believe I have read, and it was meant to follow-up RP's thought that just because they are raw foodists (which I obviously agree with) it does not necessarily mean they are therefore incapable of neglecting their other 4 children.

Naturally I don't have all the facts. I only have what is available to every other common person, so hopefully it goes without saying that I am basing my personal opinion on that. :D They could have done things wonderfully and all of the accusations could indeed be sensationalist hype (I truly HOPE so!!)

I do wish the whole family well, and hope to see them all together again. This whole ordeal must have been hell for the family, and I can't imagine what they must be going through. To be forced to be separated from your children, and have no input on their lives, and to not be able to grieve together, especially after the death of one of them, must be absolutely brutal!.

[rawpriestess]

Rawkie,

You have some great points there. I really understood the homeschooling, and if the parents were feeding their children cooked food and the baby died, would they be on trial.

such good points.

I feel for anyone who loses a child, or a loved one.

This is indeed the tragic part of this whole story, like I said, I wish them well, and health.

I think you are also right, that we may never know the entire story.

And this whole thing is so very sad. Any situation where someone dies is sad.

Especially a child. it breaks my heart.

[Ariannah]

My kids are healthy and I try to make sure I give them what they need...even still nurse my 2 year old. But God forbid something suddenly occurs that results in one of my children's death that had absolutely nothing to do with how we eat because it would then be my husband and me in that court room awaiting our fate.

Well said, Rawkinlocs. Many people have said "It's not raw food that is on trial here", and while to a point that may be true, it is indeed raw food that is getting all the hoopla. It's eventually going to be believed to be the cause of Woyoah's death and be blamed for any conditions the children may have suffered. Raw food's reputation will be what the media will magnify and many willing thrill seekers are going to be swallowing it (no pun intended) hook, line and sinker.

[Pailani]

I know we all keep hearing about the raw food part of the equation, but isn't the real issue of neglect focused on the fact that they didn't seek conventional medical advice?

[rawpriestess]

Pailani,

that is the truly scary part of all of this.

All we can do is to "let the truth be known" and that is it.

We can be shining examples of how raw REALLY makes your body and health absolutely fantastic, and that is what I intend to do.

Be an example of RAW and natural food health.

[Sharon in Colorado]

I know we all keep hearing about the raw food part of the equation, but isn't the real issue of neglect focused on the fact that they didn't seek conventional medical advice?

I was under the impression that this is how they found out the child was born without a thymus.

[dhammala]

Just wanted to bump this and post an update for everyone...


Lamoy and Joseph Andressohn -- acquitted of manslaughter in the death of their 5-month-old baby -- moved a step closer to getting their family back together Tuesday when a judge ordered they be allowed to visit their four older children.
...
The jury convicted the couple of neglecting the four older children.

Despite the neglect convictions, Circuit Judge William Thomas ruled that the Andressohns should have supervised visits with their four older children, who have been living with Joseph Andressohn's sister since Woyah died.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/13288408.htm

[PandaBear]

What makes me mad about this case is that it doesn't detail exactly what she was fed or her medical conditions. If she was not fed her MOTHER's natural milk, then of course her immune system will be horrible. Mother's milk is essential, that is why we MAKE it from our bodies for our babies, no matter what diet we're on. If she was not breastfeeding, then this is no surprise. Plus, was the food organic?

[dhammala]

Hey all!

Just another bump to let you know the update on the case. The couple was given a 15 year probation on their child neglect charge, and the judge lifted the 'no-contact' order on their other children. They can see their kids again after two years!! If another judge approves the reunification of the family, they will have to have regular pediatrician and nutrionist visits and attend a parenting course.

http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/ap/2005/12/22/ap2410973.html
http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/family/5614346/detail.html

[Carolyn]

Excellent news!!! Thanks so much, Dhammala!!! :)



Hey all!

Just another bump to let you know the update on the case. The couple was given a 15 year probation on their child neglect charge, and the judge lifted the 'no-contact' order on their other children. They can see their kids again after two years!! If another judge approves the reunification of the family, they will have to have regular pediatrician and nutrionist visits and attend a parenting course.

http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/ap/2005/12/22/ap2410973.html
http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/family/5614346/detail.html