Any wine drinkers?

[delmar]

Does anyone here drink wine in moderation? Certainly wine is a living food. I have heard a little bit about animal products being used in the production of some wines. I was thinking that drinking only kosher wine would be an easy way to avoid this issue.

[Ilse W.]

I used to live in Sonoma Co., CA in the middle of wine country, took wine making related courses at the local college and spent a lot of time at wineries. I don't recall "animal products" being used in the wine making process...?

[michigan roman]

theres something like ground critter bones are used in some kind of proccess by some wine makers

[MysticTree]

http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyle/food/drinks/

[Ilse W.]

Interesting. Never knew that. However, the wines I generally drink have sediment in them so I guess it's ok. Besides, I am "vegan" for health and not out of some conviction, so tiny amounts of animal don't bother me. Just think of your peanut butter and other such stuff were the government allows a certain amount of bug parts!

[laughalways]

I have a glass once in a while but not that often. I am going to pretend I didn't see this...lol.

[delmar]

I specifically mentioned kosher wine in the OP because, in kosher cooking animal products are kept completely separate from vegetable products. So imagine my surprise when in studying this topic I found out that not all kosher wine is vegan friendly. I did, however, manage to come across a fairly extensive vegan wine list.
http://www.yogavive.com/?p=1157

Below is a list of Wines, Wine Companies and Vineyards that have been approved of as Vegan; This is by no means a complete list and other lists are made available online. Is your favorite vegan wine on this list?

Academy Culinary Wines

Albert I Noya

Alderbrook Winery

Alexandria Nicole Cellars

Ampelos

Asda

Aum Cellars

Avery Lane

Balthazar Barossa

Barrelstone

Basignami Winery

Becker Vineyards

Bent Creek

Big Basin

Boordy Vineyards

Bordeleau Winery

Brown Brothers

Brys Hill

Bully Hill

Burrowing Owl

Calamus Estates

Caparone Winery

Carivintas Winery

Carmel Winery Caroline Cellars Winery

Carolinian Winery

Casa Barraca

Casa Patronales

Castle Rock Winery

Cave Springs Cellars

Chateau Diana Winery

Chateau St. Jean

Chatham Vineyards

Cherry Creek Wine

China Bend Winery

Chinook Wines

Chronic Cellars

Church and State Wines

Cima Colina Winery

CinnabarWines

Circa Estates

Cline Cellars

Colchester Ridge Estate Winery

Cooper Mountain Wine

Corbett Canyon

De La Montanya Winery

Deerfield Ranch

Diago Cru Estate Wines

Donkey Bum Rose

Door Penninsula

Duplin Wine Cellars

Eagles Nest Winery

East Dell Estates Edge Wines

Familia Zuccardi

First Drop Wines

Fisheye Winery

Fleur de California

Florida Orange Groves

Foppiano Vineyards

Four Chimneys

Foursight Wines

Frederick Wildman 7 Sons

FrenchRabbitt

Frey Vineyards

Frogpond farm

Hardy’s Bin 7 Riesling 2001.

Santa Rosa Estate Cheninb Torrontes

Tesco Monster

Tesco Seriously Fruity Rose

Tim Adams Clare Valley Resiling

Valbona Cabernet Sauvinion 2002.

Valbona Chardonnay

[delmar]

Interesting. Never knew that. However, the wines I generally drink have sediment in them so I guess it's ok. Besides, I am "vegan" for health and not out of some conviction, so tiny amounts of animal don't bother me. Just think of your peanut butter and other such stuff were the government allows a certain amount of bug parts!

I am in fact, not a vegan, but in keeping with the rules of this forum, will only discuss wines that everyone here could enjoy if they choose to, as well a discussing how to know what wines are not appropriate for everyone here to enjoy.

[delmar]

I was just looking at a recipe for Dandelion Wine and everything looks good except it calls for 6 cups of sugar. I suppose honey or ground raw sugar cane could be substituted. Though It seems like that would require using a little less water.

[MysticTree]

I thin you are a bit confused about kosher. Certain things must not be eaten together; for example meat and milk products. Ergo many people who eat kosher choose a veggie burger so that they can have a cheese burger. They couldn't have a meat burger with cheese but they can have a veggie burger with cheese. Do you follow?

[delmar]

I thin you are a bit confused about kosher. I was indeed confused. Kosher wine does not = vegan friendly. Got it!

[drraw]

I like white wine in moderation. Every once in a while I end up going just slightly over the point of moderation :-) I habitually buy all white wine labeled organic that are not at massively inflated prices. I would never consume any grape product from NoCal that was not organic.

--drraw

[walnutty]

Nope, not here!

I have never had alcohol and I never will! :wow:

[Ilse W.]

I was just looking at a recipe for Dandelion Wine and everything looks good except it calls for 6 cups of sugar. I suppose honey or ground raw sugar cane could be substituted. Though It seems like that would require using a little less water.

Honey is not considered vegan as far as I know. Rules, eh?

[drraw]

Not to mention, honey is very difficult to ferment and is not a good idea for wine. Yeah, and the rules too!

--drraw

[MysticTree]

Honey is allowed on this forum because Alissa's raw programme allows honey.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Some dangerous mushroom are vegan and toxic for you. Wine in my humble opinion compromise our goals that we want to accomplish when we choose a raw vegan life style.

People can say what they want about wine butt if your goal is health, youth and freedom then this has to go too. It will create a bound and co-depency as the cook food do.

I personally would stay away from it and don't make exception. I used to drink wine in moderation, but when i got pregnant , i couldn't make exception during the time and when i was nursing. I haven't had wine anyway for a long time before i got pregnant because i was on raw vegan before. Anyway, i am glad that this is out and i don't intent to drink wine. I never like the alcohol anyway.

I want health, energy, youth, freedom and beauty more then this substance.

If someone, doesn't care about that, then what matter is that they focus on their accomplishment and not worry about that wine if they choose to consume it.

You can tell yourself story to justify why you would drink it or are drinking it but the truth, the result on your body will never lie.

All the best!

[jyakulis]

Some dangerous mushroom are vegan and toxic for you. Wine in my humble opinion compromise our goals that we want to accomplish when we choose a raw vegan life style.

People can say what they want about wine butt if your goal is health, youth and freedom then this has to go too. It will create a bound and co-depency as the cook food do.

I personally would stay away from it and don't make exception. I used to drink wine in moderation, but when i got pregnant , i couldn't make exception during the time and when i was nursing. I haven't had wine anyway for a long time before i got pregnant because i was on raw vegan before. Anyway, i am glad that this is out and i don't intent to drink wine. I never like the alcohol anyway.

I want health, energy, youth, freedom and beauty more then this substance.

If someone, doesn't care about that, then what matter is that they focus on their accomplishment and not worry about that wine if they choose to consume it.

You can tell yourself story to justify why you would drink it or are drinking it but the truth, the result on your body will never lie.

All the best!


My friends grandfather had 2-3 glasses of wine with dinner everday since he was 16, did nothing else to watch his health and lived until he was 97.

[MysticTree]

My friends grandfather had 2-3 glasses of wine with dinner everday since he was 16, did nothing else to watch his health and lived until he was 97.

I wonder how old he would have lived to if he hadn't drunk excessively? Also of course it isn't just about how long you live but how well you live.

[Traceyraw]

I love FREY wines. I usually just get the RED TABLE wine because its cheaper but its very good. I haven't really drank any alcohol for the past 2 years.

[Charybdisjim]

Some wine makers do go produce unfined or clay-fined wines specifically in order to produce a vegan product. These will of course be clearly labled as such since letting people know the product is vegan is important if that's the market you're specifically aiming for.

Many wine makers produce unfined and unfiltered wines in order to produce a specific flavor profile - chosing slower methods for removing or settling sediment and opting not to clarify the wine at all beyond that. These wine makers, if they are renowned for making a particularly celebrated wine, often do not clearly make this information availible because they seek to protect their methods which they fear other vinters may try to immitate. For these wines, depending on the particular labelling requirements, it can be quite difficult to find out whether they are fined or not and by what. It also makes it almost impossible to find by searching wine vendors inventories by keyword - you end up having to rely on reviews and word of mouth then actually read the bottle or contact the winery to verify it.

That's a shame because the wines for which it can be harder to know whether they are fined or not and by what also tend to be particularly good. Luckily you do manage to hear about them every now and then and here, for example, is an unfined unfiltered wine I recently tried that was absolutely delicious:

https://winelibrary.com/wines/60592-10-andezon-cotes-du-rhone-rouge

Under $15 and having scored 91 pts with Wine Advocate's Robert Parker, this is a hard one not to reccomend to any wine drinker. Its also the single best vegan wine I have every tasted. For a reliably good maker of unfined and unfiltered wines there's also Paul Hobbs.

http://www.paulhobbswinery.com/about_us/winemaking

They're not as good value for money as some of the gems that come to be unfined and unfiltered through the evolution of the vinter's experiments with flavor over generations which incidently yields a vegan product today, but of the easily identifiable vegan wines they're better than most.

One online supplier which does have a decent number of identifable unfined wines is this:
http://www.klwines.com/content.asp?&N=0&Nr=OR%28OutofStock%3AN%2CInventory+Location%3ASpec ial+Order%29&Ns=QtySoldLast30|1||QtySoldLifetime|1

Unfortunately whether or not you can order wines this way varies greatly depending on local laws.

Wine and health

Alcohol consumption in general and wine drinking specifically has been very well demonstrated to have positive health benefits and no measurable negatives except in those with digestive intolerance, allergies, or relevant metabolic disorders (including diabetes.) This is true if and only if it is consumed in consistent moderation; no binge drinking and no exceeding the ideal daily amount for the individual patient. In excess though, almost all potential health benefits are demonstrated to be statistically negligible compared to the effects of high alcohol consumption and risks of alcoholism.

Basically, do it in moderation or not at all. If you have a history of alcohol abuse in your family or compromised liver function then it might be best to not drink at all. A familial history of alcohol abuse may indicate the presence of genes which substantially increase the likelihood of certain types of addictive behavior, such as alcoholism. In this case the risk of starting drinking when one had previously been dry might far exceed the benefits even if they can't imagine they would drink in excess. Because of the deleterious health effects and problems associated with excessive drinking, many doctors are reluctant to advice someone who does not already drink in moderation to start drinking red wine despite the potential health benefits. If you're already an abstainer by choice then a doctor would likely not advise you to start drinking since they could not be reasonably sure of how well you would manage it.

Also note that dietary intolerance is not as uncommon as some may think, particularly to someone not accustomed to drinking wine. If you are not and do decide to start you may find that you experience mild abdominal distress or other reactions even when consuming it with fatty foods such as avacado. If this is the case it is probably advisable to stop if it continues because the effects of continually irritating your digestive tract can be deleterious.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/red-wine/HB00089

Does Wine Have a Place in Raw Vegan diets

Wine crafted in a traditional manner and bottled unfilterd and unfined could very well be considered a raw vegan food in the same way as a naturally fermented pickle could. Just as with pickles however, the cooked and processed varieties are far easier to find than one which might more a more natural product. Unlike pickles however, you do not have the easy option of producing wine yourself.

Whether you consider wine specifically or alcohol products in general to be allowable in your diet and under your philosophy is a more personal matter. While they certainly can be a raw vegan product, the line between healthy consumption and unhealthy consumption is a fine one. They are also one for which the impulse to consume in excess can be a powerful one and for which one may be genetically predisposed towards feeling without realizing it.

So yes, wine may have a place in raw vegan diets and a good one at that. On the other hand wine may have no place in your particular diet for specific philisophical or health reasons and only you can decide that. If you decide it has no place in your diet, no one should rightfully be able to tell you you are wrong. If you decide it does then you can be equally right unless you prove otherwise by drinking in excess or discovering a dietary intolerance.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Your body will never lie. Meaning, we can tell our self story or find anything to make us justify to drink alcohol but you should experiment. Don't consume alcohol for months and then try to do it without changing your diet. Just take notice of your skin.

I personally don't have a good feeling about this, except to lead to more dependency and slowing down our healing process and even compromising it.

Observe your skin.

Just eat fresh grape. Those are great for your health and detoxification.

[drraw]

Just eat fresh grape. Those are great for your health and detoxification.


Fresh grapes aren't fermented. There's a lot of info that shows that fermented foods build healthy gut bacteria which helps digestion.

--drraw

[jyakulis]

I wonder how old he would have lived to if he hadn't drunk excessively? Also of course it isn't just about how long you live but how well you live.

I believe they call that faith.

[MysticTree]

I believe they call that faith.

You may believe that, it doesn't make it so.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Fresh grapes aren't fermented. There's a lot of info that shows that fermented foods build healthy gut bacteria which helps digestion.

--drraw

I doubt there is bacteria left when the grape reach a huge amount of alcohol? The alcohol itselve, is very toxic.


For fermented food, you can do rejuvelac, raw vegan cheese, raw vegan yogourt, sourkrut, etc....


All the best!

[Ilse W.]

For those who love their wine but don't want the alcohol, there is alcohol free wine.

[drraw]

I doubt there is bacteria left when the grape reach a huge amount of alcohol? The alcohol itselve, is very toxic.


That's an interesting point which I think I'm going to research. One thing is that regardless of whether it is alive bacteria or not, the wine has been pre-digested just like kombucha or any other fermented food. I know a lot of bacteria hibernates if it is frozen or cannot eat, so it may be in hibernation.

As for the alcohol being toxic, I won't dispute that but point that everything has purpose in moderation. Phytates (i.e. raw almonds) and alkaloids (i.e. raw kale) are also toxic yet serve an important purpose -- it all depends on how much you are ingesting.

--drraw

[Raw Angel Mom]

That's an interesting point which I think I'm going to research. One thing is that regardless of whether it is alive bacteria or not, the wine has been pre-digested just like kombucha or any other fermented food. I know a lot of bacteria hibernates if it is frozen or cannot eat, so it may be in hibernation.

As for the alcohol being toxic, I won't dispute that but point that everything has purpose in moderation. Phytates (i.e. raw almonds) and alkaloids (i.e. raw kale) are also toxic yet serve an important purpose -- it all depends on how much you are ingesting.

--drraw

I guess everything in moderation. I think, it comes down to see for ourselves and experiment. I personally feel better without it. I truly value freedom and this is the place i want to be : to conquer any co-dependency and be free.

I don't do good with kombucha either, believe it or not, i can feel the little alcohol in them, lol... and not to count that they constipate me. I think this is the carbohydrate in them. They are quite addictive to me, so i am staying away. I prefer a lovely raw vegan yogurt and cheese, so so yummy.

Nice talking with you, all the best!

[RawSweetie]

Right now Im in 2 glass of red wine per week mode. It's a pleasure I enjoy. :-)

When it begins to feel detrimental, I guess I'll stop. I don't pay attention to whether it's organic, etc. I have certain reds I've always liked and I'm ok with them right now.

Im just chiming in for any new-to-raw parties who may be reading this thread and thinking, "Oh nooooooo! Im not ready to give up my WINE!" Lol.