Fed up with Pediatrician

[gcvfish]

Hi! I'm new here and have been lurking for quite some time now... But wanted advice from you folks.

My pedi has been concerned about my LO's weight gain. He's been growing, but has been around the same weight for about 2 1/2 months now. Which is around 18lb 13 oz.

Recently I have been eating a lot of raw and drinking a lot of green Smoothies, which my LO really loves! When this was mentioned to my pedi (Becuase he wanted me to start giving my LO meats for iron) I mentioned that he loved drinking green smoothies, and he basically dismissed it saying that meats would be a better source of iron... .I was dumbfounded. And then I said, that I wanted to give him fresh fruits and veggies (the ones he could acutally chew) instead of his jarred food, and again... He said it maybe once a day, but he'd rather him have the jarred food... THEN on top of that, he wanted me to quit breastfeeding and start giving him formula.... This one took the cake... By then I was really upset and just couldn't believe what I was hearing.

Anywho... The Doctor wanted to get blood work done to make sure he wasn't anemic (Mind you they checked his iron levels 4 weeks ago and they were above normal) and urine samples. DH and I went along with it becuase we thought, hey maybe something is going on, we need to know about. Well after 20 minutes of them poking and proding my poor little baby and them still not being able to get in his little veins, enough was enough. They wanted us to go to a Children's hospital to try and get the blood again, but I can't bring myself to put my son through all that again when all I see is a bouncing, happy, energetic, healthy little boy.
DH and I decided that we are going to pump the little guy full of fresh and healthy food (no more jarred food or unhealthy "adult food") for the next month until his 12 month Well check up and if he still doesn't gain weight then we'll talk about additional tests.

Thanks for sticking through my rant. My question and plea for advice is, what are some nuts and seeds I can put in his smoothies to give him healthy fats. I know I can up his intake of avocado and I will start steaming some veggies for him to munch on throughout the day... Fruits, he takes with no problem (He already has all 8 front teeth and a molar) I just don't know if I can stick the seeds and nuts straight in the smoothie and lt them get blended with the rest of the stuff or if it will be best to grind them up with a coffee grinder first and then give it to him. Thanks so much in advance for those of you who got through this and respond!! Any other healthy food ideas are greatly appreciated.

[Living Food]

As a general rule, the average doctor knows virtually nothing at all about nutrition (or health, for that matter), and nutritionists and dietitians really aren't any better. There are rare exceptions, but it seems like your doctor isn't one of them.

You can soak flax seeds and add them to smoothies, and you can make nut milks with most nuts and use them as the base for smoothies (there are many recipes on this site if you search for them). Another good thing you could try is to make fermented nut and seed cheeses and give those to your child; he'd probably love those. Sprouted sunflower seeds would also make a good snack.

It doesn't really add many calories, but you might want to try adding spirulina (an algae) to his smoothies - just a little bit at first, because a very small percentage of people are allergic to it. Spirulina is jam-packed with nutrients, including the elusive gamma linolenic acid, which is vital to a baby's brain development. It's almost as good a source as mother's milk. It also has extremely high levels of iron if that's a concern - a tablespoon has 21 milligrams, about as much as 5 medium steaks! It doesn't have the most pleasant taste until you get used to it, though, so that's another reason to start with only a little. Seaweed is almost as good nutritionally, although it has less iron.

Also just for nutritional value, you could try sprouting greens such as alfalfa and adding those to the smoothies too. Sprouts have amazing quantities of nutrients on account of their being the freshest food possible. Sprouts also have huge amounts of vital life energy (a difficult concept for some people to grasp, but all living things do), which is a very important nutrient in it's own right...and one that is lacking from almost everyone's diet these days. Raw food helps provide some, but most people eat mainly weeks old store-bought food where most of the nutrients and energy have disappeared long before they eat it. Even a little fresh sprouts every day can help compensate for this.

By the way, the more blood he has drawn, the lower his iron and other nutrient levels will be.

How old is he?

[gcvfish]

Thanks for the info!! He is 11 months old today. They didn't end up getting any blood today because they couldn't get the needle in his vein, and wanted us to go to the hospital to try again and I refused.

How would I go about starting my own sprouts. Is it something a health food store wold be able to help me with?

Also every weekend we have sort of like a flea market where all local organic farmers come to sell their produce weekly so I plan on going there tomorrow and getting enough greens and fruits to hopefully last boh of us for the week.

[Living Food]

Go to this thread (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?64973-Sprouting!&highlight=sprouting%21) for some good sprouting info. You can order sprouts online, and some healthfood stores have seeds you can sprout.

[Living Food]

Food from local farmers is much better then store-bought food, especially if it was picked recently like most farmers markets do. In terms of freshness (and nutritional value) I rate foods like this:

1. Sprouts
2. Weeds
*
*
3. Fresh local produce
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
4. Store-bought produce


The spaces are significant.

[Raw Angel Mom]

This upset me when i read your post, because it brings me back in the past with my daughter. She was radiant of health and to keep people happy i had agreed to blood work. Thinking it would be only one sample they did 10 of them. My daughter was traumatized and it took her a while to recover. The good news is that, they couldn't any more put pressure on me because her blood work was great and she has no deficiency. The amino acid were above average.

If your child is 11 months, use hemp seeds in the smoothie (omega 3/6 and have a lot essential amino acid), give tone of fruits, young coconut milk etc.... I WOULDN'T give nuts yet, your baby cans develop allergies, i would wait. Truly goes with fruits. You can soak gojji berries for extra source of vitamin such iron, vitamin A and C.

I agree they are clue less. Try to find another doctor. Have you stop nursing????

All the best!

p.s I read that e3live is ok to give to baby. Please research, i am not a doctor. I gave that to my child but she was older.

[drraw]

The problem here is that raw food and natural methods mix with "traditional" doctors as well as oil and water do. As stated above, they have no nutritional training and if you spend enough time around them, you see they have a quasi-religious view of their practice -- if they didn't learn it in med school or it wasn't sent to them as an approved method by the AMA, it doesn't exist. Even if you show it to them with visible results, it wasn't clinically proven. One of my clients is an endocrinologist and she has a large poster in her office with a strange graphic entitled "If you are too open minded, then your brains will eventually fall out." I think that about sums up a typical MD's attitude.

Another word of caution would be to tread lightly on them with mentioning alternative issues. They all have God complexes and if they think you are doing something that would harm the child like feeding too much raw food, they are apt to call CPS.

--drraw

[gcvfish]

Food from local farmers is much better then store-bought food, especially if it was picked recently like most farmers markets do. In terms of freshness (and nutritional value) I rate foods like this:

1. Sprouts
2. Weeds
*
*
3. Fresh local produce
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
4. Store-bought produce


The spaces are significant.

That's interesting, I never thought of food losing their nutritional value because of long shipment and shelf lives until I came across this site. Thanks so much for all the info.

[gcvfish]

This upset me when i read your post, because it brings me back in the past with my daughter. She was radiant of health and to keep people happy i had agreed to blood work. Thinking it would be only one sample they did 10 of them. My daughter was traumatized and it took her a while to recover. The good news is that, they couldn't any more put pressure on me because her blood work was great and she has no deficiency. The amino acid were above average.

If your child is 11 months, use hemp seeds in the smoothie (omega 3/6 and have a lot essential amino acid), give tone of fruits, young coconut milk etc.... I WOULDN'T give nuts yet, your baby cans develop allergies, i would wait. Truly goes with fruits. You can soak gojji berries for extra source of vitamin such iron, vitamin A and C.

I agree they are clue less. Try to find another doctor. Have you stop nursing????

All the best!



No I havent stopped nursing, although he has shown a lot more interest in food when he's hungry than wanting milk. I still nurse him at as much as he wants during the day and he wakes up 3-20( ok maybe 20 times is a bit much but sometimes itfeels like that!!!) times during the night to nurse.

[gcvfish]

DRRAW - I am really seriously considering finding another doctor for him. I agree with you complelely on the outlook of MDs. Its absolutley rediculous. I won't even get started or this post will end up way too long ! I would love for us to go see a naturopathic doctor but they are not yet allowed to practice in my state, so the next best thing is to switch to a DO doctor.....

[MysticTree]

Or move state.

[Living Food]

Thanks so much for all the info.

You're welcome :)

[Raw Angel Mom]

No I havent stopped nursing, although he has shown a lot more interest in food when he's hungry than wanting milk. I still nurse him at as much as he wants during the day and he wakes up 3-20( ok maybe 20 times is a bit much but sometimes itfeels like that!!!) times during the night to nurse.

Well, another reason to be even less worry. Your providing great source of nutrient to this little. I would continue nursing up to 2 years old to be on the safe side but you are the mommy and you will know when it is time to stop.

Give him as much fruits he wants. It is a simple food that require not much to digest and is loaded with nutrient and sugar for their brain.

All the best!

[gcvfish]

Well, another reason to be even less worry. Your providing great source of nutrient to this little. I would continue nursing up to 2 years old to be on the safe side but you are the mommy and you will know when it is time to stop.

Give him as much fruits he wants. It is a simple food that require not much to digest and is loaded with nutrient and sugar for their brain.

All the best!

My original plan was to breastfeed him until he was ready to quit. I'm currently pregnant with my second due at the end of November, and I really don't know if I'm up to tandem nursing, but I'm totally not ready to wean him yet. So we'll see how it goes.

[adobegirl]

We had similar issues with our grandson. We finally just started telling the Dr what he wanted to hear. The tests proved he was healthy so we didn't feel bad omitting information. Even now, at his last checkup, the Dr asked how many glasses of milk he drank. We said 3-4. Because he does some days... but it's almond milk (he is older now). he didn't specifically ask if it was cow's milk and we didn't specifically say it wasn't. As long as he is thriving (and some children are just smaller than others) and doing well, I think it's fine. I'm not saying lie to the Dr though... but I guess we did through omission.

:heart :heart:

[Living Food]

adobegirl: Why do you bother going to a doctor? He's obviously not providing any useful information or service (no surprise there, though). Why not save the money?

[MysticTree]

I just signed up with a new doctor and went for a newbie appointment. He did and said almost nothing! I gave him my chart of bp readings I've been taking. He entered the latest reading of 119/69 on the computer and commented not that it was down from 190/120 just about 6 weeks ago. He didn't demand tests when seeing that I follow a raw vegan diet. He didn't comment on it at all. He didn't listen to my heart or lungs or take readings of any sort. No pee tests. Nothing. I was in and out in about 4 minutes. I have never had such a brief consultation!

[Living Food]

I wonder why so many people still insist on going to see doctors who know so much less then them - someone who knows less then you and is convinced that he is absolutely right and you are wrong, and who expects all of his/her (frequently harmful) instructions to be followed to the letter - sounds like a recipe to disaster! I haven't seen a doctor in a long, long time, and I never will again, unless I have the misfortune to be seriously injured in some accident.

The only real use of modern doctors and medicine is when people are injured. They're absolutely hopeless when it comes to actual health.

[Crystal2870]

Maybe its because they have all these charts which they expect every baby to conform too !, my babies charts are based on a bottle fed child which is crazy as obviously if being bottle fed they will put on more weight than a breastfed baby, dont forget hes alot more active now so burning more calories..
I'd agree the doctors dont know hardly anything about nutrition, I was told when I had my twins that I would Starve my twins if I breastfed them , how crazy is that !..
Good luck with breastfeeding while pregnant, try and get plenty of rest (easier said than done i know!), I was breastfeeding my son whilst pregnant with my daughter, it can be quite demanding !....and sore later on, my son self weaned almost overnight, I think it was when maybe the colostrum came in and the taste changed or something, he was only 14 months then.. x
I'd say trust your instincts as a mother if hes eating well and breastfeeding plenty Im sure he is fine ! xx

[Arky]

I'm well aware of the benefits of raw foods.


...but I wouldn't be so fast to dismiss your paediatrician. Whether you like it or not, there are nutrients a growing child needs which are not necessarily rich in a vegan diet, and this may be reflected in breast milk, wonderful though breast milk can be.


Zinc deficiency, for example, can be associated with growth issues. Zinc is available in the vegan diet (pumpkin seeds, for example), but one needs to make a deliberate effort to obtain decent intake.


MCFAs are important for child growth, too.


Vitamin D is also vital for healthy human growth. Shazzie discusses vitamin D here:


http://shazzie.com/life/articles/raw_vegan_children.shtml


If your diet is deficient in certain nutrients, then so, too, will your breast milk be deficient in certain nutrients, and thus your child may experience deficiencies of certain nutrients.


I've suffered the inadequacies of conventional medicine for many years, and indeed I'm still suffering from heavy metal issues contributed to primarily by a lifetime of ethyl-mercury-preserved vaccinations, so believe me, I do understand the shortcomings of conventional practitioners. However, what you have described does not seem like sufficient justification to write-off your paediatrician. Respectfully, it does rather sound like you may be interpreting your paediatrician's seemingly 'mainstream' concern about your child's raw vegan diet as representing a challenge towards your raw vegan philosophical idealism. If your child's growth is halting, then this clearly points towards a possibility of there being one or more nutritional deficiencies involved.


I'm not criticising raw-veganism; I'm simply pointing out that raw veganism is not a flawless dietary approach (no dietary approach, of any kind, is flawless, vegan or omnivorous, cooked or raw). Therefore, if your child's growth is halting, then it is entirely legitimate to question whether there may be some nutritional deficiency involved in the situation - simply indignantly dismissing your paediatrician for posing such a question does not serve your child's best interests, no matter how much you love your child, and no matter how much you love your raw-vegan dietary philosophy.


Your child's best interests will be better served by you having a sufficiently open mind to be willing to explore various possibilities until (hopefully) an answer may be found, even if that answer is an uncomfortable one in light of your personal dietary philosophy. Perhaps it isn't a dietary issue (endocrine issues are another possiblity, for example), but perhaps it may be dietary.


I wish you and your child well. Please let me know how you both get on.


Take care.

[Living Food]

Arky,

Ah, but the catch is that most pediatricians know absolutely nothing about nutrition. I agree with most of your points, but to think that pediatricians have the answers is just typical brainwashed non-thinking.

No offence meant :)

[Crystal2870]

My son was 13 months and a similar weight to this child, all my children have been breastfed (although Iwasnt raw) and are non vaccinated, they are vibrant and healthy, I dont think any parent would embark on any diet without researching it beforehand ?, I think if the weight was dropping drastically it would be of concern?...My son is just small he was only 5.5 lb at birth and its just the way he is..

There is a good book (I think it is available as an e book) by Jessica Fenton in the UK on bringing up Raw kids, also the book by Shazzie is a great resource too.

Arky can understand where you are coming from ! Doctors do have a place ! but I read somewhere that they can study 5 years to become a doctor yet only 3 days on nutrition ! to advise someone to give up breastfeeding and replace with fake milk is just crazy ! x

[Raw Angel Mom]

I'm not criticising raw-veganism; I'm simply pointing out that raw veganism is not a flawless dietary approach (no dietary approach, of any kind, is flawless, vegan or omnivorous, cooked or raw). Therefore, if your child's growth is halting, then it is entirely legitimate to question whether there may be some nutritional deficiency involved in the situation - simply indignantly dismissing your paediatrician for posing such a question does not serve your child's best interests, no matter how much you love your child, and no matter how much you love your raw-vegan dietary philosophy.


I wouldn't say no diet is flaw less. If you figure out your natural diet, it will be flawless as the animal figured that out. Life food is the way as it is found in nature. I did dismiss my pediatrician after that i trusted him and he gave two vaccinations in a row of my two month old baby. She scored perfect on her birth and never was she the same after these vaccinations. DISCERNMENT, Research, following your gut feeling yes, your intuition is a necessity to protect your child. It is raw food, stimulation with her brain and early intervention that saved her but most of all, it is my intuition and the right people place on my path that guided me to do the right decision for her after this tragedy. Nothing wrong to stick with a pediatrician but you need to discern and not to give your power away, meaning, you are the boss and you are the one to make the best decision for your child. You can bet that nobody has ever give a vaccination to my daughter ever. I MADE sure of that. You have to take and leave. Animals don't worry about their amount of zinc or iron or calcium they just eat the food they are guided too. I am talking about the animal in nature, not the farm animals or domestic animal. Nothing wrong to get blood test done to make sure you are on the right track but at some point, you will know without a doubt that you are.

All the best!

p.s It is true that they spent a huge amount of time to study all the drug from the pharmaceutical company far more then nutrition. Also, their nutrition course is also base from the food guide sponsor by the dairy farm association. This tell you a lot. You are the one to figure out what is best for your child by researching and if you can find a dietitian that is into raw food and step outside the box from this food guide. Sadly, it seems that the tendency from their school is to train them to be sale representative of the pharmaceutical.

[Gianni]

There's a great book on this subject called, How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor written by
Robert S. Mendelsohn M.D. Every new parent should have a copy and read it.

He doesn't recommend routine annual check-ups for healthy people, nor does he recommend vaccines.

[Crystal2870]

Raw Angel Mom, Im sorry about your daughter and can understand what pressure that you must have been under x I'd agree about the sponsoring side too, my health visitor came and admitted its suprising anyone breastfeeds with the amount of courses and literature they are given sponsored via the baby milk industry, shocking !

[Raw Angel Mom]

She is doing fantastic now. She eat only raw food and on occasion i don't make it a fuss if she wants to try organic vegan food at my favorite restaurant, but she loves her fruits the most. This year she finished top of her class, i was literally shock because in the beginning of the year, she couldn't focus. Today, it is like she awoke. Truly, your body can rejuvenate and heal.

When she was an infant, they try to pressure me also to give her formula, they have these weight chart. A baby always loses weight after they are born and then start to gain again. They would compare her weight from the day she was born versus when she started to gain weight. Anyway, i didn't want to give formula but i did supplement her under pressure. She would vomit the milk and i would use a pump to simulate my milk every hours, to produce more. I made so much milk that i had to freeze it at some point, lol.... I never had to supplement her again, and she was exclusively on my milk for 15 months then she had raw food with my milk up to 4 years. Anyway, i am so glad that this is behind me now and i am committed to speak up. Knowing what i know now, nobody would have convince me of supplementing her.

All the best

[Zoefzoef]

In the country where I was born and raised you go to the doctor when you are sick. Now I live in the US and I have to find ways on how to adapt to new rules of society while staying true to my own beliefs.
When my daughter was born 2 years ago, my midwife warned me that if I would not bring my child to well check ups I could potentially get in big trouble. Lets say you get in an accident or what not and you have to bring your child to the ER, if you then cant show any proof of regular doctor visit for your child, they can bring your child to social services and take her/him away. So we have been to a pediatrician 3 times in 2 years, to have her measured and weighed. Each time was a different doc because we didnt like the previous one.
Anyway.....

[drraw]

For some reason, I always have this conflicted feeling when reading this thread.

On one hand, I have practiced as my own physician since I was a teenager and I completely accept responsibility for it. I also have a perfect feedback loop. My body alerts me to things and I respond to them in the manner I feel appropriate and as a result I've always been very healthy. If I screw up, I have no one else to blame and can always engage a credentialed doctor, but in 20 years it hasn't happened yet.

The issue here when dealing with someone else -- especially a child who has specific growth stages and may not recover properly if certain things do not happen at certain times -- is that there is no feedback loop and that it is not possible to fully take responsibility.

I don't have the answer here as the mainstream doctors do have quite a bit of power to cause an unseen number of problems (health, financial, legal, etc.) but OTOH they do have a great level of observational knowledge and in their own way seem to think they are doing what is best for the patient.

--drraw

[MysticTree]

I get where you are coming from drraw but then again who exactly says that all children should hit their growth spurts at the exact same time. and in any case, the doctors can only go by an average of stages that are hit by children who mostly don't have a healthy lifestyle when it comes to food in the first place.

Part of the problem is the litigious society we live in. Doctors get sued. Doctors therefore, to protect themselves, must adhere to guidelines and it's sort of tough shit if the guidelines are screwed.

[adobegirl]

adobegirl: Why do you bother going to a doctor? He's obviously not providing any useful information or service (no surprise there, though). Why not save the money?

I used to be all about herbal medicine and didn't even want to hear about western medicine. As the years have gone by, I've realized there is benefit in both. There are some tests that are done through the western medicine that are helpful. It doesn't mean I have to use the treatment they want me to use, either for me or anyone in my family. Life is a balance for me. If the tests for my grandson had come back with anything wrong or out of balance, it would let me know that I need to do something to help it. I would choose natural healing for it, but would have been thankful that I knew, however I got the information. :heart

[Raw Angel Mom]

I've realized there is benefit in both.

Agree, we need both medicine and learn about all the other options also.

The only problem that i find is the way we were raise and brought up. It is like we go see a doctor and say here fix me, but it is our responsibility to take charge and to make the decision for ourselves. There are great doctor that are willing to step outside the box or some even to be willing to listen to you. Once we plant a lot of little seeds, it will grow.

In the mid time, we are the voice of our children and we need to stop rationalizing the intuition and to have more respect for this guidance.

I never had a good feeling about those vaccinations with my daughter but today, i listen to this voice and trust.

Both medicine are needed but our perception needs to heal and our heart to open and to do what makes the most sense to us versus going with logic where intuition is completely block off.

[Raw Mommy]

I agree with this, but sometimes its really hard to buy GOOD local products. We are in Indiana, and GMO land. People here are not very aware of even the Organic food movement, let alone raw foodies! All of the local products we find are either drenched with pesticides or bio engineered, and I just won't buy those. We have a garden in the summer and eat about 50% from there, but just to have some variety, we have to buy store bought organic. I guess we all do what is necessary. I envy people who live in areas with lush farmers markets on every corner!

[Raw Angel Mom]

Perhaps, you can find other family and group together to order your food on line. Also, if you talk to your grocer, you can request they carry organic. In my town, it was hard to find organic produce and it took a long time, now, we can find it every where. You just need a ripple to start.