How Can I Get More Raw Calories?

[robh]

I am a big guy. I need about 2500 calories. If I do not get enough calories, I wander around the house at night, munching non stop.

Throughout the day, I eat lots of fruit, dates, soaked chia seeds and almonds. In the evenings, I have a large salad. I also eat an avocado most days. I end up with all my vitamins, all my minerals, about 1900-2000 calories (about 28% of it being from fat).

At night, I find that I am hungry and have not eaten enough. At that point, however, I am tired of fruit, tired of dates, tired of chia seeds, tired of almonds, etc. Lately, I have been turning to non-raw items to fill me up. Last night I had some cooked rice and I was actually full for the rest of the evening.

I am looking for a raw calorie source is not a fruit and is not a fat. I think about potatoes and corn. I cannot imagine eating a raw potato and any corn I get is going to be a GMO - so those two are out.

Raw, non-sweet, non-fatty calories - can anyone make a suggestion?

Thanks in advance.

[Dimond]

I personally find the best way to make sure I'm enough calories, is to consume mostly nutrient-dense liquid meals throughout the day rather than solids-smoothies, soups, puddings, etc. I also add different raw food powders to assist with that such as chlorella, protein, etc. If you just want to focus on 1-2 per day, you can make soups. I find fats are more satisfying in a soup or smoothie versus eating them on their own or in other solid meals. So maybe you can try doing it that way instead to see if that helps. Not adding more fat to your diet, but using it in a different way.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Greens, this is what you need to maintain your weight and muscle development. Best eaten at night.

With raw food, you don't necessary go with calorie but food that gives you energy. So if you plan to exercise etc.... fruits are the way to go in term of fueling your activity.

You can look into sprouted legume (rich in protein etc...), sprouted green peas, buckwheat, spirulina etc...

Look for sprouting thread.

All the best!

[robh]

Dimond, Interesting idea. Maybe in a more liquid form, I would get more nutrition (and more energy) out of nuts and seeds.

Does anyone eat things like jicama? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachyrhizus_erosus) I saw some raw recipes on a site that uses them. I am not sure where I would get them. The Wikipedia says it's a "Mexican Yam, or Mexican Turnip". Can we eat yams and turnips raw?

edit: Raw Angel Mom, we must have posted at the same time. Maybe I'm not getting enough greens (only eating salads). I do have legume sprouts (been kind of lazy with the sprouts). thanks

[fastfreedom]

Eat more fruit. LOL I know......you are sick of fruit by the end of the day. I was too, but I got used to it after about a week. Make the first meal in the morning a big fruit meal, then again more fruit for lunch, and snack on fruit during the day, then have fruit for dinner with some greens or just the greens. Salads are very low in calories though. I would have to eat 5 lbs of salad/greens to get 500 calories and it would take me HOURS. But I can eat 5 bananas within 5 minutes, easy. I wasn't a fan of sweets my whole life, I just never really craved em. And it took me a little while to get used to the sweet fruit, but I can say that it satisfies me.

Fruit is loaded with carbohydrate calories which your body uses for fuel. The tongue may not be satisfied at first but your body will be.

LOL I know that's not what you wanted to hear but it's how you can get lots of calories. That or eat lots of fats, which I learned made me feel terrible. After I cut down on the seeds and other fats I felt great again.

If you can find some heirloom organic corn at a farmers market....that would be great. I love raw corn but choose not to buy it at the grocery store cus it's GMO. I agree, the raw potato...yuck....but hey, "I know I'm not supposed to recommend this here", but...erm....uhhhh....steam it....uhhh. LOL It's still healthier than eating potato chips or a pound of cheese or a hamburger or a....ya get my drift. Or perhaps some form of healthy gluten free pasta. And then you can begin to transition it out. I learned that my body wanted carbs. I ate TONS of pasta my whole life so I think that's probably why I always passed on the sweet desserts and never had a craving for sweets. But I now get the same satisfaction from eating fruits. Though like I already said twice, it took me a little while to get used to all the sweet.

edit: I just saw on another post you mentioning that you weigh so much more than the other person and I figured out your weight. "yeah I'm a math genius. LOL" Anyhow, I assumed you were knowing how many calories you needed and were counting your calories cus you mentioned that you needed 2.5k calories. I weigh 50 lbs less than you and consume an extra 300-500 more calories than you say you need in a day. Check out cronometer if you don't already have a different calorie counter. I like it. But anyway, not eating enough calories I myself, like you, found that I was searching for a snack later at night. Get enough calories in during the day and you won't be searching for something at night. At least that's what helped me.

[Raw Angel Mom]

You can find the jicama at your store usually, you can ask. You can buy already made sprout. They are fairly easy to do though. Alissa explain how on her dvd.

All the best!

[robh]

Raw Angel Mom, thanks, I'll check that out. I really should start sprouting again.

fastfreedom, I use cronometer too. That's interesting that you weigh less and you need more calories than me. Do you play sports or work out? My activity level is very low and I work a desk job. I told cronometer that I wanted to loose a pound a week. It recommends 2000 calories a day. I just pulled up some random calorie calculator (http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm), put i my specs and stated that I have a low activity level. It says 2539 to maintain and 2040 to loose some weight.

I see what you are saying about more fruit. I just get burned out on the stuff, to be honest.

Good idea on the corn. I am also curious about the jicama. I think my main problem is variety. If I can get enough calories from enough sources that I don't get burned out on any one type of food, I might be OK.

I know I could continue to supplement my calories with cooked rice, oatmeal and steamed potatoes, but it seems like eating cooked food stops my weight loss (kinda weird).

[Non]

Heh, it seems like you're drawn to some of the starchy things and I think that's ok. I think sprouts would help you out. This and some greens. Actually I would try greens with sprouts. If you say you get enough nutrients just with fruit and nuts.. I'm surprised. I thought a diet would need lots of greens and/or microgreens/sprouts to get enough micronutrients. Well with that said.. you can look into some starchy things, like jicama, sprouted legume and/or grain. It's not bad. It just takes some work though..

[Living Food]

I second the sprouts, both starchy ones and sprouted greens.

fastfreedom, I'm glad that a (very) high fruit diet seems to be working well for you, but one size doesn't fit all and it seems like robh doesn't want to eat that much fruit. It's quite likely that he wouldn't do as well on a high-fruit diet as you. I'm just saying this because I don't think it's good for someone to force themselves to eat something that their body is telling them not to just because someone says it is better for them.

And I'm not trying to be offensive in any way.

[fastfreedom]

robh - I hear ya on the variety. My tongue was sick of fruit, but I noticed that my body really likes it, and that's the only reason why I stuck with it. You could always mix it up and try a gourmet meal of some type. Like one of my recent favorites added to the recipe section is the, "Thai Lettuce Wraps". It has salty, sweet, and spicy flavors all rolled into one dish. Or another dish that used to be a staple of mine but now I turn to when I want something different is chunky guacamole, with LOTS of cilantro. It's pretty much a cilantro salad with lime juice, avacado, tomatos, tomatillas, and purple onion. Then I wrap it up in romaine or a different leaf lettuce. Or one other I haven't had in a while that's sounding good ATM is, "Amazing Coconut Curry Special", that's a recipe I came up with cus I LOVE Thai food. And I enjoy it just as a soup too.

Yeah I suppose I'm a little active, but sometimes I sit around. Like today, I dug out my mtn bike, dusted it off, and was gonna go for a ride but the front tire is flat and I gotta find the spare, so I'm just sitting around.

I think the cooked food does make it difficult to shed the LBS.....as far as I've heard, I don't have any experience in that area. I hear over and again about a farmer that found out that if he fed his pigs raw potato's they wouldn't gain weight, but once he began to cook the potato's they began to put on fat.

Living Food - no offense taken. We're all just looking for health. And I still think the same as many here say, "listen to your body", that's how I found out that lots of fruit satisfied my body even though my tongue was wanting loads of salty gourmet stuff. And I also learned that to listen to my body I had to ignore my tongue until it caught up. My tongue loved salted spiced up fats, but my body felt terrible, with or without the salt and spice. My tongue didn't enjoy so many sweet fruits at first, but my body has been thriving.

I suppose I really didn't need to say everything I did and I could of simply said, "find heirloom corn" or "check the recipe section", and left it at that. But hey......sometimes I like to share, cus I think in reality the only reason we are all here on this board is because we are searching for health and want to feel good. ;-)

[robh]

fastfreedom, it's all good. I appreciate all the responses. I'm not really into the gourmet raw, to be honest. My idea of preparing food is pealing a banana before I eat it. Chopping lettuce for my salad is truly about the extent of my "cooking" lately. I think you and I eat a lot the same. I just do less fruit and compensate the calories with nuts and seeds. To eat his own, right?

I picked up some jimaca at the store after work. I guess I'll have to grate that in the food processor and add something to it so I can eat. I'll get some corn on the weekend. That takes very little to prepare - peal and eat.

I'm not sure what's up with raw starches - not many people do it. I guess I'll find out!

Thanks everyone for the input.

[drraw]

I wanted to address this because I think there are a few fallacies here. First, calories are a false measurement. The more accurate measurement would be the amount of energy your specific body is able to absorb from a given food source at a particular time. This varies based on the food and it also varies based on biochemical routines going on in your body. I know personally there are some foods I can eat that will bloat me, take my energy and I still will feel hungry afterwards. There are also foods that routinely provide me with a good balance of energy and nutrition and I feel like I can run a marathon after eating them -- satisfied but not full.

So, the first thing I would recommend is to ditch the idea of calories and any preconceived notion of what amounts of protein, fat, carbs, etc that somebody tells you that you need. Learn to listen to your body. Eat foods in isolation and observe how you feel after eating them (i.e. still hungry, full, bloated, satisfied, etc.) and make notes to add them to your diet in the way your body needs them. The vedas believed that the body has specific routines for digestion that are activated as soon as you touch the texture of the food with your fingers. This is the level of body awareness that we need to strive to achieve.

I started out where you were about five months ago. After doing this for a while, I just seemed to need less food. I think part of it was mental -- me thinking that I'm a big guy and need a lot of food and part of it was how my body had adjusted to my previous routine. After a while, I realized I no longer needed a lot of food and listened to what I need. If I'm hungry, I eat. If I'm full, I stop. I don't bother counting calories or anything like that and I've still been losing fat, gaining strength and endurance.

One of my main staples for whatever reason is garbanzo beans. I could eat them all day as well as any raw almond-made treat.

--drraw

[robh]

drraw, that is a brilliant idea. I am going give it a try. thank you

[Raw Angel Mom]

I love your reply also drraw. Everyone is different and we need to listen to our body. For sure, i am a fruit person and not so much a nut person. My body doesn't like them but my husband does need the nut.

Totally agree about the energy concept. If calorie is what give you energy then why after someone engorge themselve with fast food or a big Holiday meal, they feel sleepy???? It just make sense to go with energy.

Glad that you found what is working for you, i am still in tune with myself but much in a better place then the beginning of this journey.

All the best!

[fastfreedom]

drraw - While I respect your opinion, I disagree about the importance of knowing how many calories your body needs to function. I used to also tell everyone on here not to be concerned with counting their calories because it was what everyone else was saying too. But I quickly learned that I could eat all day, but I was losing weight and getting skinny, and I'm not a person that has extra poundage to be losing. Simple fact was that I wasn't getting enough calories.

It's my assumption that most people on here are saying don't worry about the amount of calories you are consuming because the majority find themselves here because weight loss is their main objective. And perhaps in that situation, sure why count your calories, your body has tons of extra fuel stores it needs to get rid of. But for someone like me, I NEEDED to know how much to eat in a day so that I could maintain my figure and feel healthy and not want to binge on something every few days. So I began to count calories for a little while to get an idea of how much I needed to eat in a day.

[drraw]

There's nothing wrong with counting calories, as it's the only way I know of that we can track energy we are getting from food. But, the gripe I have with it is the belief we have in the measurement, which is quite flawed. If I say I live in a large house or that my car gets good fuel economy, the measurements of square footage and miles per gallon are pretty universal and don't need much explanation. With an accurate miles per gallon figure, I know how much it will cost me to fill up the tank and pretty much how far I can get before needing to fill it again.

Calories are different. Most modern processed food contains empty calories which have very little value to the body. There is a lot of work to digest highly processed food which takes away the energy value to the body. If you eat a meal with 2000 calories and feel tired afterwards for the rest of the day while you are digesting it, does it matter if you got 2000 calories as you are not able to use the energy?

In addition, people process calories differently. If I haven't eaten for the entire day and then consume a meal, I might use all of the calories and nutrients from it. If I just ate a full meal and then ate again, some or many of the calories may pass through my system partially digested. In other words my system might be more efficient at processing calories at one time and less at another time. Circadian rhythms also come into play here.

The calorie measurement was developed by burning food and measuring the amount of BTUs (heat) generated from burning it. That simply isn't how it works in real life as we don't have an internal "furnace" to burn food and it also doesn't account for the body being a biological machine and not a mechanical machine.

--drraw

[fastfreedom]

Ahh, I see what you're saying. I thought we were only talking about raw plant food calories and was assuming that SAD empty calories were obviously not even considered as part of the conversation. I totally agree though, plant foods are superior to SAD/empty calorie foods.

I also find it funny to compare food burned to ash and then weighed to be how calories are measured. Even still, I found it helpful to use a calorie counter to measure how much I needed to eat in a day. I could look back at my log and say, "ok, it's saying I only got x amount of calories today and I'm feeling quite hungry and have cravings for something, so tomorrow I need to eat more". I don't follow any type of advice from some "expert" saying that because I'm so tall and weigh so much that I need x amount of calories. Though I think it may be a good reference point to start with.

I always thought that calorie counting was hogwash. But I learned to use it as a tool to get a grip on what and how much I needed to eat so I could maintain my body and energy levels.

[robh]

drraw, more good points. I took your advice and started experimenting today.

I waited until I though I was hungry (I am not sure I know what the feeling is to be honest). It was kind of weird. I started to experience feelings I normally associate with detox. I have had this happen before on an empty stomach. I honestly didn't know that my body had toxins to work out (I normally start eating before I feel this way).

Anyway, I had a single banana and waited. My hunger faded a bit. I wanted more, but up until an hour after I ate it, I felt less hungry. The detox symptoms faded as well (body was busy digesting). After the hour was up, the hunger got stronger (as did the detox).

Two hours after having the banana, I was pretty hungry so I tried having 6 bananas. I actually had an impulse to stop eating after 2-3 bananas. I truly felt full (no more detox). I could tell, however, I wasn't satisfied. I wanted something, but I resisted. Instead of being full for 6-12 hours (as I had hoped), I was craving food (nuts) badly after just 3 hours of eating my 600 calories in bananas.

I ended up calling off the experimentation for the day and raw through the rest of the food I brought for work (2 oranges, 3 plumbs, chia seeds and almonds). That was a couple of hours ago and I feel really full and actually pretty satisfied as well.

I found it interesting how 1 banana can get me through an hour or two, but 6 can only get me through a few hours. Makes me wonder if I get more energy out of food by eating it at a slower rate.

Anyway, sorry for the odd, funky post. I found it interesting. Thanks for the cool idea drraw. I am very curious about all this. I am going to continue to experiment (in the mornings on an empty stomach).

Sorry I derailed my own thread. I have plans for the raw Jicama. I am curious if that keeps me off the cooked food tonight. I ended up with rice the last two nights. I think I gained a pound or two in response.

On another thread, someone recommended soaked wild rice. I always thought wild rice was rice. Apparently, it's grass seeds - pretty cool. I want to give that a try too.

Thanks again everyone for the stimulating thread.

[walnutty]

Raw, non-sweet, non-fatty calories - can anyone make a suggestion?



That pretty much leaves veggies, which are very low in calories. Hmmm...tough question....

Why are you opposed to raw fats?

[Non]

I always experienced that fruit leaves me hungry afterwards. Even carbs in general are not as "satisfying", at least as opposed to nuts/seeds but maybe it also depends on the type of carbohydrate ie, starch vs simple sugars like fruit. I know that also in low carb diets it's the fats and proteins which keep a person feeling satiated.

But yea, fruits are not always bad, sometimes fruit can stimulate appetite, stimulate digestion and or moves the lymph or whatever according to Robert Morse.

[MysticTree]

If 1 banana keeps you satisfied for 1 hour but 6 bananas keep you satisfied for only a couple I would say you are eating too much at a single go. How does 1 banana every hour make you feel? I find bananas keep me full for ages and three - five a day is all I can manage without the thought of bananas making me feel sick! 30 bananas a day doesn't appeal to me except in the sense that it would be a cheap form of existence for a short while.

If you feel you are craving nuts then wouldn't it make sense to have a few ready soaked to fill that need?

[robh]

walnutty, I am fine with fats. They are very good for me! I currently get like 30%-35% of my calories from fat. I see my raw sources of calories and fat and fruit (veggies have very few calories, as you said). I have no problems with nuts, avocados, seed and fruit. I eat so much, I get tired of them , though. I guess I'm looking for some variety.

MysticTree, I was thinking along the same lines - break my meals up into small portions that I eat on an hourly basis. Also, I do eat nuts. Yesterday, I was craving the ones that I brought (I was purposefully holding them back in my experiment). And, yeah, bananas are just cheap energy. I just tried them in the experiment because I brought a lot yesterday.

Non, I have to say. I notice the same issue with fruit. About a month ago I upped my calories from fruit and tried to reduce my calories from fat (I think I was reading info about that low fat raw vegan thing at the time). As soon as I started eating more fruit, I felt more hungry.

I think about the responses people have put on this thread about legumes and beans. I thought humans couldn't break legumes down (a similar problem humans have with wheat)? I have noticed undesirable side effects with wheat (I turn into a grumpy, grumpy person a day later). I am therefore hesitant to try sprouted grains. I read that legumes have the same issue? or a similar issue? To be honest, I am a little hesitant to eat sprouted legumes. I could also eat cooked beans, but I think I'd be in the same boat as cooked rice.

Fruit, nuts, starches, grains and legumes - OH MY!

edit: I am experimenting again this morning. I went with consuming about 100 calories every hour.

I made up a 500 calorie mixture consisting of 50 grams chia seeds, 50 grams of sesame seed, some rasins, some crasins, some water and some agave. The result is a high-fat source of calories rich in omega 3, omega 6, zinc, calcium and iron.

Every hour, I have been eating 100 calories of this mixture. I have to say, so far, today is much different from yesterday. I feel good. I feel pretty satisfied and pretty full honestly. We will see how the days goes, but this is good.

Anyway, thought I'd share.

[fastfreedom]

I've read the same thing about legumes......supposedly not the best for the human body. That's okay to me though, I think they're gross anyhow and could never eat em plain.

Good luck on your experiments.....you'll get it figured out. ;-)

[Non]

Actually sprouted legumes are different. I haven't tried sprouted grain but I do sprouted legumes in moderation. About 1/4 cup dried in the morning is what I'd like to start doing. Usually just lentils. About 4-5 days it requires and I haven't had problems with digestion. It's just well, it also requires that it be combined properly.

I also had the same problem with legumes being hard to digest before but I realized it's probably because I didn't sprout them long enough. I also add lemon juice to improve to deactivate phytase further. Well I haven't gotten my water filter though so, I've only had one good batch of lentils and they were good. We'll see anyways, Im experimenting. If they don't do well for me then I'll have to leave them. Besides yea I don't have that much, just 4 tablespoons dried.

[Living Food]

I thought humans couldn't break legumes down (a similar problem humans have with wheat)?

Some people have difficulty digesting them, but for most it is fine as long as you sprout them for long enough.

There is some speculation that legumes may have minute quantities of undigestable proteins, but if that's the case then it's certainly not unique to them and it's really not something to worry about unless you're going for perfection. I eat sprouted legumes as my main source of food (along with sprouted nuts/seeds) and feel amazing.

Sprouted grains are different, and I don't eat any (although many do), but legumes are fine for most people. You can also try sprouting quinoa or amaranth, which are more like seeds then either grains or legumes and digest very easily, but are both very good sources of carbohydrates; they both also have all eight essential amino acids.

Why don't you try sprouting some lentils or mung beans (or quinoa/amaranth) and see how you feel afterwards?

[robh]

Yeah, I am going to give sprouted legumes a fair shake too. I have some mixes from sproutpeople sitting at home. I'll have to read and see which ones have lentils and mung beans. I remember they have a lot of beans!

I could be misremembering what I read, but I thought there was something in legumes that blocked absorption of certain vitamins (or was it minerals?). And whatever this something was could be broken down a little by sprouting or broken down a lot by cooking. I think that was the other factor against legumes. Anyway know what I'm talking about here? I can go look it up when I get back home if no one knows.

Today, I am doing really well on the chia/sesame seed mixture. I just finished my 500 calories, eating them 100 calories at a time. It has really sustained me today. In about an hour, I'm going to go back to normal eating mode with fruit and almonds, but today's experiment has been really interesting.

I'll get some legumes sprouting (curious how much I need to eat to get 500 calories - heh) and I need to get my hands on some wild rice.

The whole thing has me pretty curious. :)

[fastfreedom]

I thought there was something in legumes that blocked absorption of certain vitamins (or was it minerals?).

Yeah, that's it. And I'm not sure that even sprouting stops that. I think the only thing sprouting basically does is make it easier to get some usable nutrition from the legume. And of course it removes some of the phytic acid but not all nor even enough to make it completely stop it vitamin/mineral blocking. Here's a direct quote from wikipedia, "though of course I'm sure most don't have a lab to verify everything we hear and read", but anyhow.

"Phytic acid, an antinutritional factor, occurs primarily in the seed coats and germ tissue of plant seeds. It forms insoluble or nearly insoluble compounds with many metal ions, including those of calcium, iron, magnesium and zinc, reducing their dietary availability. Diets high in phytic acid content and poor in these minerals produce mineral deficiency in experimental animals (Gontzea and Sutzescu, 1958, as cited in Chavan and Kadam, 1989)[citation needed]. The latter authors state that the sprouting of cereals has been reported to decrease levels of phytic acid. Similarly, Shipard (2005)[citation needed] states that enzymes of germination and sprouting can help eliminate detrimental substances such as phytic acid. However, the amount of phytic acid reduction from soaking is only marginal, and not enough to counteract its antinutrient effects [16]"

And this is just wikepedia, I've read in other places of the studies done with humans instead of animals and it produced the same effects.

Though I still am unsure on just eating just the tiny plant that the legume would produce and not eating the legume itself, I guess that would be considered a micro green?

I think another thing that makes legumes, grains, and such, "hard" on the body is that if you are consuming them consistently then it makes your body acidic. And when this happens you not only need to be concerned about the legumes blocking vitamin/mineral absorption.....but also need to consider your body beginning to leach minerals from bones to counteract the acidity.

But I still consider listening to your body more important than having blind faith on what is said or read from anywhere. If you really wanna know you gotta experience it.

[Non]

http://www.sproutpeople.com/docs/vegejournal.html

Soaking alone causes a significant decrease in anti-nutrients, as the antinutrients are leached into the soak water. Soaking for 18 hours removed 65% of hemag-glutinin activity in peas.66 Soaking for 24 hours at room temperature removed 66% of the trypsin (protease) inhibitor activity in mung bean, 93% in lentil, 59% in chickpea, and 100% in broad bean.42 Then as germination proceeds, anti-nutrients are degraded further to lower levels or nothing. Soaking for 12 hours and 3-4 days of germination completely removed all hemagglutinating activity in mung bean and lentil.56 Soaking for 10 hours and germination for 3 days completely eliminated amylase inhibitor in lentils.62 Normal cooking removes most or all of the anti-nutrients.

So you see, the lentils and mungs seem to be the best for sprouting. I'm sure that by 4-5 days of germination they are even better. I wonder why Indian cuisine also uses so much of them. Also peas too but I think maybe they need to be sprouted a little more also.

Also a lot of those nuts and seeds you eat could be better if at least soaked over night, even better if germinated 1-2 days.

I hear flax can be EASILY sprouted if left to soak in water at least 24 hrs. Probably the same for chia seeds. For me this was nice to hear because I always thought these seeds needed a longer process. Im sure that it would probably be better but heh, what more could I ask for if they're at least germinated? I don't need to green them. At least I don't have a desire to yet. Make sure you chew the seeds too. If not, a cracker is good too, especially if you want to grind them later on. Sesame needs to be soaked about 1-3 hrs, then it can be germinated for 1-3 days.

I hear you on the work part but if you just start minimalist style until you get the hang of it you can make baby steps towards a garden full of sprouts.

IMO the most important though is clean water. Have some hydrogen peroxide to clean them if necessary, some lemon juice if you want to deactivate phytates even further.

[fastfreedom]

WOW. I'm always amazed at how much contradictory information there is out there. If anyone wants they can find something good and something bad about whatever they're researching. I guess the simple fact is to say, "I honestly don't know", and I really just need to try it and find out for myself.

I used to sprout. I still have about 20 gallons of flax and sunflower seed sealed up in the basement. LOL At the rate I'm eating it now it's gonna be more than a few years till I get to it all.

[Non]

hm.. I was reading somewhere that flax has cyanogenic glycosides and that they're released when they are ground and/or sprouted. Now Im wondering one of two things. If this can be avoided by just not chewing on the flax seed, which doesn't seem logical as the fats are mostly inside the seed (mucilage is not made of fatty acids). or if one can use lemon juice also on them. and it can help reduce the cyanogenic glycosides? Hm.. well i know that cooking can do the same for other foods with the same compounds. You know the ancients could combine foods/herbs to reduce toxicity of other foods/herbs like in natural/indigenous or folk systems of herbal medicine.

[Non]

WOW. I'm always amazed at how much contradictory information there is out there. If anyone wants they can find something good and something bad about whatever they're researching. I guess the simple fact is to say, "I honestly don't know", and I really just need to try it and find out for myself.

I used to sprout. I still have about 20 gallons of flax and sunflower seed sealed up in the basement. LOL At the rate I'm eating it now it's gonna be more than a few years till I get to it all.

yea that's true. Though it would be nice if the industry or the scientific community could help us out with some research lol. But seeing as this world is not raw vegan or even vegan who knows when that will happen.

[drraw]

yea that's true. Though it would be nice if the industry or the scientific community could help us out with some research lol. But seeing as this world is not raw vegan or even vegan who knows when that will happen.

With all the business we're stealing from them, I certainly doubt it. They put their big resources into shutting us up.

--drraw

[robh]

Non, thanks for posting that link. That is some great info on how the anti-nutrients in legumes are broken down and consumed by the sprout as it starts to grow.

I'm gonna get to sprouting and see how they do.

I started eating fruit again this afternoon. I feel like I'm back in that hunger cycle now.. weird.

[Living Food]

There seems to be a lot of confusion when it comes to phytic acid and other antinutrients. For starters, not only legumes have them; all seeds, nuts, and grains do too, and so do many unrelated foods. Virtually all vegetables and greens have some, and nearly all fruits have low levels (bananas, apples, apricots, peaches, pears, and grapefruit being the main exceptions).

I remember posting this here somewhere else, but I'll do it again because I can't find it. This is a chart of some of the foods that contain phytates:

FOOD SOURCES OF PHYTIC ACID
As a percentage of dry weight
FOOD MINIMUM MAXIMUM
Sesame seed flour 5.36 5.36
Brazil nuts 1.97 6.34
Almonds 1.35 3.22
Tofu 1.46 2.90
Linseed 2.15 2.78
Oat meal 0.89 2.40
Beans, pinto 2.38 2.38
Soy protein concentrate 1.24 2.17
Soybeans 1.00 2.22
Corn 0.75 2.22
Peanuts 1.05 1.76
Wheat flour 0.25 1.37
Wheat 0.39 1.35
Soy beverage 1.24 1.24
Oats 0.42 1.16
Wheat germ 0.08 1.14
Whole wheat bread 0.43 1.05
Brown rice 0.84 0.99
Polished rice 0.14 0.60
Chickpeas 0.56 0.56
Lentils 0.44 0.50

FIGURE 2: PHYTIC ACID LEVELS8
In milligrams per 100 grams of dry weight
Brazil nuts 1719
Cocoa powder 1684-1796
Brown rice 12509
Oat flakes 1174
Almond 1138 - 1400
Walnut 982
Peanut roasted 952
Peanut ungerminated 821
Lentils 779
Peanut germinated 610
Hazel nuts 648 – 1000
Wild rice flour 634 – 752.5
Yam meal 637
Refried beans 622
Corn tortillas 448
Coconut 357
Corn 367
Entire coconut meat 270
White flour 258
White flour tortillas 123
Polished rice 11.5 - 66
Strawberries 12

I have another one that lists phytate content in leafy vegetables and fruits, but I can't ind it online and I don't have a scanner.

To stay away from legumes because of phytate content is just dumb...if you tried to avoid all foods with phytates on a vegan diet you'd starve to death, or die of malnutrition. That said, phytates are a big deal and large amounts are quite harmful to your health. The solution? Sprouting. Fermentation also greatly reduces antinutrient content.


However, the amount of phytic acid reduction from soaking is only marginal, and not enough to counteract its antinutrient effects

Wikipedia is mostly correct, as soaking alone doesn't have a major impact on reducing phytate content. Sproutpeople are also correct, as soaking can remove large amounts of other antinutrients. However, germinating the seeds for a sufficient period of time eliminates the majority of all antinutrients. It does no eliminate all of them, but neither does cooking. Boiling quinoa for 25 minutes only removes 15-20% of phytates, for example.


I think another thing that makes legumes, grains, and such, "hard" on the body is that if you are consuming them consistently then it makes your body acidic. And when this happens you not only need to be concerned about the legumes blocking vitamin/mineral absorption.....but also need to consider your body beginning to leach minerals from bones to counteract the acidity.

Legumes and grains do tend to make your body acidic. So do nuts and seeds, unripe fruits (mostly what you get in the grocery store, becuase they were picked unripe even if they look ripe), air pollution, tap water, stress, and more things then I can list here. Just like phytates, you can't avoid things that make your body acidic, you can just counteract them by consuming (and doing) lots of things that make your body alkaline, like fresh green sprouts, microgreens, and grasses - and to a lesser extent older, store-bought greens. Sprouted legumes are also much less acidic then cooked legumes.

No matter how you do it, your main source of calories is probably going to make your body acidic in some, be it sprouted legumes, nuts/seeds, store-bought fruit, or some combination of the above. The trick is to balance them with sufficient alkaline foods.


I was reading somewhere that flax has cyanogenic glycosides and that they're released when they are ground and/or sprouted. Now Im wondering one of two things. If this can be avoided by just not chewing on the flax seed, which doesn't seem logical as the fats are mostly inside the seed (mucilage is not made of fatty acids). or if one can use lemon juice also on them. and it can help reduce the cyanogenic glycosides? Hm.. well i know that cooking can do the same for other foods with the same compounds. You know the ancients could combine foods/herbs to reduce toxicity of other foods/herbs like in natural/indigenous or folk systems of herbal medicine.

I'll admit that cyanogenic glycosides aren't my strong point (I know far more about phytates, uric acid, oxalic acid, and most other antinutrients), but I can say right off the bat that not chewing/grinding flax is kind of counterproductive...we humans can't digest flax unless it's ground up/sprouted. I also believe that sprouted flax doesn't contain harmful quantities of hydrogen cyanide, although it's possible. Most (nearly all) foods have some natural toxins, so I still think that sprouted flax is a good food to eat. To each his own, though.

[Non]

After soaking flaxseeds in water for 24 hrs I can confirm for myself that this isn't enough to reduce the goitrogens or cyanogenic compounds. I still feel suuper tired after consuming them.

I've also tried some sprouted flaxseed powder and I notice the tingling on my tongue.. which I beleive is also attributed to the cyanogenic content right?

So, sigh, I guess there's no way around it with flax. One must sprout it in the complicated way. I don't get it.. I use paper towels and all, they still never sprout.

[Living Food]

Hmmm...maybe you have a bad source for flax seeds? Where are you getting them?

You could try it on soil and see if it works any better for you. It shouldn't, really, but who knows? I just sprout all of my microgreens on soil because I'm convinced they take up at least some nutrients from it, no matter what other people say.

[Non]

maybe, I just dont water them enough. I need a bpa free spray bottle.

[drraw]

Here's a video I think many people on here could validate from personal experience -- how to lose weight and debunking the idea of the calorie myth. The volume is a little low, so turn up your speakers:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RLTLHBAU80

--drraw

[robh]

drraw, thank you for the video. This could may be my issue.