Chard makes my throat hurt?

[DandelionPuff]

So, today I harvested some chard from the garden and ate it plain... It tasted very good! But... my throat hurt after it... still does, even though that was 2 1/2 hours ago.
This has happened before with chard, but I thought it was only when I paired it with olive oil... guess not.
It doesn't happen when I cook or juice with it. Could it be some sort of allergy?

[Non]

Hm, I only have gotten that with beet greens. Other than that yea the red chard is pretty strong, too strong for my tastes to consume at least in bigger portions. Or at least it's the stems...

[walnutty]

Read this:

http://debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com/2009/04/spinach-and-oxalate-acid-thing.html

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Read this:

http://debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com/2009/04/spinach-and-oxalate-acid-thing.html

There are arguments for and against the oxalic acid issue; some have bone problems when consuming green juices and others don't.

Some say the dark greens allow the body to get rid of the oxalic acid when juices are had by themselves. But when you start blending dark greens with other foods, then the problems start occuring (IMO). And since sesame seeds aren't dark greens, but they can be problematic if not soaked. No-one really knows for sure.

l reckon if you are going to have greens high in oxalic acid, you should be having them as juices on their own (use the green power to help the body get rid of the oxalic acid)....some evidence seems to support this. lf you have seeds or legumes with oxalic acid you should sprout them or at least soak them. And yes, cooking doesn't destroy all the oxalic acid as previously thought/.

And that's why l recommend to consume baby greens (kale sprouts, weed sprouts etc), because fully grown vegetables start growing undesirable characteristics and the mature plant loses it's concentrated nutrition as the power of the seed is well spent in it's early stages of it's growth. lt makes no sense to be consuming mature greens, but everyone seems to be doing it.

[T-Bird]

I also am sensitive to when the greens are high in OA. I have attempted to get some info on etiology as I have found this to be extremely variable.

do the plants produce more when stressed by heat or lack of water - like bitterness in lettuce?

Are there difs based on variety? liek swiss chard, ruby chard, rainbow chard, etc.

I have found no answers. Yet.

[DandelionPuff]

Thanks for all the replies!
The link is super helpful, and I'm wondering... could I be calcium deficient? As I have a very strong love for tahini! I'm only 18, though.

So...oxalic acid only forms in adult greens? Baby spinach doesn't have it then? And if you're getting enough calcium, your body can take more of the oxalic acid?

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

So...oxalic acid only forms in adult greens?
lt seems to be that way.


Baby spinach doesn't have it then?
baby spinach as in `spinach sprouts'. Be careful. You aren't going to get proper baby spinach from the shops; the only way to do it is to grow the spinach for months in your own garden until the plant grows lots of seeds, but this takes time and space. Truely...it is best just to buy seeds like alfalfa and have that instead....much much more potent than any mature greens, and no nutrient inhibitors either.


And if you're getting enough calcium, your body can take more of the oxalic acid?
Hard to say for sure, but one would think so. Think about it....if the oxalic acid binds with calcium, it will continue to bind until the oxalic acid is all bound up with the calcium, so if there is still extra calcium (from the diet) that is left over, then there will be no oxalic acid to bind this calcium. But that is a theory, there might be other factors that might not make this the case. But the possible problem with this approach is calcium oxalate which causes kidney stones, so l think the solution is to emphasise baby greens in the diet...grow them yourself, in this way you get freshness and no oxalic acid.

So try wheatgrass, alfalfa grass, chia grass, fenugreek sprouts, mung bean sprouts, sunflower sprouts and pea shoot greens instead. lf you can spend about 30 minutes a day tending to your own sprout garden you will be getting far superior nutrition to any old kale, broccoli or spinach bought from a shop (minus the oxalic acid). Personally, l don't bother with any of these dark green vegetables because they aren't worth the trouble and are never fresh when bought from shops. You hear about cancer victims going on raw food vegetable juices and never getting cured...no surprise is it...the vegies are store bought and aren't fresh and have lost most of their essential phyto-nutrients, so the vegies have lost their ability to fight the cancer. Store bought vegies are such weak sources of nutrition, so it best to not bother with them...find something better without the oxalic acids and other inhibitors!

[DandelionPuff]

Thanks!!
I haven't been doing much sprouting, I'll admit, but I'll try to get more into it.
As far as my garden goes, I don't have much space. My parents will get angry if I take up the whole yard/ deck (potted). I do love the taste of kale, broccoli, and collard though, and I'm sure if it's from my garden/ the farmer's market, it's better to eat it than to not (at so few cals per cup, why not?.... Oh, I guess the oxalic acid, lol).

Anyway, I've some mung beans and chia seeds I'll go sprout :)
Thanks for all the info!

Edit: hold on! Just read that fertilizing crops with nitrogen-rich matter reduces the oxalic acid in the produce... So, therefore, conventional produce from monocultures will contain significantly more oxalic acid than, say, greens grown in rich organic compost, supplemented with some nitrogen-fixing weeds (pulling them out and turning them over on the soil to decompose)?
Which makes sense, and seems similar to the B12 argument regarding the lack of cobalt in the soil because it's so degraded.
Our backyard soil is far from perfect, but the soil in my garden has gotten better from when I started it last year. It still has a long way to go, which would make sense, considering the above statement, that the chard is so high in OA.

[Non]

lt seems to be that way.


baby spinach as in `spinach sprouts'. Be careful. You aren't going to get proper baby spinach from the shops; the only way to do it is to grow the spinach for months in your own garden until the plant grows lots of seeds, but this takes time and space. Truely...it is best just to buy seeds like alfalfa and have that instead....much much more potent than any mature greens, and no nutrient inhibitors either.


Hard to say for sure, but one would think so. Think about it....if the oxalic acid binds with calcium, it will continue to bind until the oxalic acid is all bound up with the calcium, so if there is still extra calcium (from the diet) that is left over, then there will be no oxalic acid to bind this calcium. But that is a theory, there might be other factors that might not make this the case. But the possible problem with this approach is calcium oxalate which causes kidney stones, so l think the solution is to emphasise baby greens in the diet...grow them yourself, in this way you get freshness and no oxalic acid.

So try wheatgrass, alfalfa grass, chia grass, fenugreek sprouts, mung bean sprouts, sunflower sprouts and pea shoot greens instead. lf you can spend about 30 minutes a day tending to your own sprout garden you will be getting far superior nutrition to any old kale, broccoli or spinach bought from a shop (minus the oxalic acid). Personally, l don't bother with any of these dark green vegetables because they aren't worth the trouble and are never fresh when bought from shops. You hear about cancer victims going on raw food vegetable juices and never getting cured...no surprise is it...the vegies are store bought and aren't fresh and have lost most of their essential phyto-nutrients, so the vegies have lost their ability to fight the cancer. Store bought vegies are such weak sources of nutrition, so it best to not bother with them...find something better without the oxalic acids and other inhibitors!

So I wonder if the goitrogenic greens grown and consumed as sprouts would have less goitrogens...

This one has been a biggy for me. Everytime I eat cabbage or any other brassica I get tired and lethargic.

[T-Bird]

Dandelion -

Do you have a link for that soil/OA relationship? I'd like to look into that.

Also - does anyone know of a home test that could tell you the OA content of the greens? I'd like to experiment with different growing conditions and see if I can make a difference.

thanks everyone for a very good discussion!

[T-Bird]

non -

I really worry about that too as I'm a brassica greens junky. I want them all the time, all kinds, prepped every which way.

Again - any home testing kits? :)

[DandelionPuff]

I can't find the original site, but this < http://www.academicjournals.org/AJAR/PDF/pdf%202010/18%20Nov/Musa%20et%20al.pdf > talks a little bit about oxalates (3rd page). It seems as though it's just a slight difference when nitrogen is applied.

Here's how to get out oxalic acid from rhubarb: http://www.ehow.com/how_6057023_extract-oxalic-acid-rhubarb.html
I guess you can experiment to see how much OC precipitates out by varying your growing methods.
I also wonder if what phase the moon is in at harvest affects OA content... hm...

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

My parents will get angry if I take up the whole yard/ deck (potted).

Green plants create a nice peaceful environment. Maybe they wouldn't mind the plants/sprouts being around, it's not that bad. ls it possible to erect some shelves along a wall and put the greens there? (shelves save space).

Eating spinach/kale etc a couple of days a week is o.k for a change, but l would be focusing on eating the more nutritious greens instead.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

So I wonder if the goitrogenic greens grown and consumed as sprouts would have less goitrogens...



Good question. Try eating some cabbage sprouts and let us know.

[Living Food]

So I wonder if the goitrogenic greens grown and consumed as sprouts would have less goitrogens...

On one hand, sprouting removes a good portion of the nutrient inhibitors in seeds; on the other hand, sprouting dramatically increases the nutrient content of said seeds. The question you asked is so interesting because many goitrogenic compounds also seem to be nutrients with anti-carcinogenic effects...so does sprouting decrease them or increase them?

[T-Bird]

On one hand, sprouting removes a good portion of the nutrient inhibitors in seeds; on the other hand, sprouting dramatically increases the nutrient content of said seeds. The question you asked is so interesting because many goitrogenic compounds also seem to be nutrients with anti-carcinogenic effects...so does sprouting decrease them or increase them?

now my head hurts!