Need book recommendations

[mousebandit]

Hi everyone! I'm looking for book recommendations on the subject of why meat and dairy are not good for us. All the things I've referenced so far refer only to studies and statements made based on non-raw (cooked, pasteurized, homogenized, etc.), feeedlot-style commercial-food-chain meat and dairy products. Nothing so far has specifically addressed problems with properly-raised raw meats and dairy. I'm opening up discussions with hubby, but we both need a lot more detailed information!

THANK YOU!

Tracey in Oregon aka Mousebandit

[Choose2BWell]

Try "eat to live" for starters, and "thrive", which explains how your body reacts to meat. Enjoy the journey.

[fastfreedom]

Dairy stuff......
http://www.rense.com/general26/milk.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJvrlwnEqbs

[mousebandit]

Thank you all! Of to read, watch, and order! :-)

Tracey in Oregon

[walnutty]

"Food Matters", "Forks Over Knives", "May I Be Frank" DVD's to name a few!

[walnutty]

OH, and if you haven't seen Morgan Spurlock's, "Supersize Me", I highly recommend it also!

[mousebandit]

Okay, I have watched Supersize Me, although as I recall, it's talking about commercial food sources, not raw, not home-produced.

I just finished watching May I Be Frank, and that was really good, although I didn't see any discussion of raw meats or dairy in it (I think the cafe was raw vegan). It did really remind me of a lot of other things though, that had been pushed to the back of my mind, so thank you!

Will get Eat to Live and the China Study books as soon as I can get to town to the health food store.

Just booted up Food Matters - probably tomorrow on that one, but Forks over Knives I can probably watch on Hulu tonight. (hubby will be on the computer once he gets home, but I can get hulu on the tv, LOL!) I did get him to watch Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead with me the other night! That was good!

The article on Rense.com was completely aimed at commercial dairy and the dairy industry, so that isn't going to help me any in discussions with the hubster. Dairy industry hates raw milk almost as much as we loathe the commercial dairy industry, ha ha!

And at about 30min. into the McDougall video, he is still only focused on the commercial dairy industry, too, although I will keep watching because he sounds intelligent enough to distinguish between them and raw milk.

So, still VERY open to resources to use in dialoguing with my husband about reasons RAW MILK and RAW MEATS are not to be desired.

THANKS! Off to watch more McDougall before hubby gets home!

Tracey in Oregon

[michigan roman]

in the perfect place like people dream about getting to and call heaven do you think there'll be critters milked / branded / gelded / slaughtered / etc ?
or do you think the perfect place would be inhabited by more civilized life forms that dont abuse other creature types ?
obvious answer but still earthlings cant see this and keep slaughtering along and hoping to get to a civilized place when they die = idiotic logic !
heres a better idea = try to make the place on the universe you exist amongst and have the power to affect the perfect place by striving to become
a more civilized life form !!!!!!! and to hell with the nutritionist / scientist / doctors opinions on what the proper human diet is , base your diet on
a bigger picture outlook and believe that you'll find the ultimate plant food diet while all along begining your evolution into a higher more civilized
life form on the
universe that doesnt milk critters like a little vampire :cheer:

run that by hubs , but maybe edit the little vampire part :D

[mousebandit]

I hear ya, Roman, but that's not going to resonate at all with my civil-construction-working hubby, LOL! Plus, as a conservative Christian, he heavily weighs the Biblical references to different foods, and if I approach from a purely spiritual angle, he will bring up Bible references to milk (which would have been raw) and meat (which may have been, in different references) raw, fermented, lightly cooked, or possibly even well-cooked. That's an angle I can't really argue with him, so I'm hoping to stick to more scientific studies/references.

I have to admit, it's actually raising questions for me, too, now that I can find SO LITTLE (like so far, nothing) specifically looking at raw dairy, in particular. All the studies I see from Weston A. Price and such are lauding raw and fermented dairy, and they're the only ones specifically looking at studies involving specifically-raw milk. So far, I think everything I've seen anti-dairy has been actually anti-pasteurized-homogenized-commercial-dairy-industry milk.

It's frustrating me in my discussions with hubby and making me question things for myself.

So, still open to more resources! I was told by someone on FB that the China Study does address raw milk, though, so maybe that will clear things up more.

Tracey in ORegon

[michigan roman]

people whom run this kingdom are based in the bible and have prodded everyone into living by its outlook

but to me all the bible is is a book written by people in effort to amass followers whom work for them / fight for them / etc . back few thousand years ago every nation had their heroes / legends / gods in effort to create groups of followers to make the lifes better of the gods creators . better your legend / bs ;-) more followers you amassed = better your life was . and the best story tellers / actors / bs'ers wrote the bible thusly amassed the most followers / power . and today theyve rode that wave of followers into becoming earths strongest current entity and are the scum punks whom run this kingdom from the shadows . and their wrongful / archaic philosophy that a gd thing made all other creatures for humans purpose has their followers headed for extinction . higher life forms do not leach off of other life forms , PERIOD . but for now punks in power are able to keep opponant voices silenced so they still take selfs seriously and hold onto their flock of naive followers that keep them in power . but as these scum in power keep running everyoneinto the ground theyll eventually lose the respect of their flock and new ways shall be looked for , and the obvious next step shall be human as plant eater striving towards making the universe a more civil place . and if i were you and my spouse was based in bible ide focus on the errors of the bible trying to show it as a man written and extremely flawed book . and if is obviously wrong in bunches of instances it makes it more feasible it could be human created bs and wrong about a whole bunch more including diet

hope i dont sound like im attacking hubs , im not . but im always attacking bible because i see it as bs con job written long ago to attract followers and today its washed writers off spring are running earth and have us headed for extinction . so i attack out of self defense

[mousebandit]

I respect your position Roman, but I'm just as Bible-believing as my hunny, so I won't be attacking the Bible anytime soon. :-)

I still, however, would love to see some more resources on why and how raw dairy (and meat) are damaging to our health, to share that with the man. I just got done watching Forks Over Knives, and will be checking out The China Study book, as it sounds like that might have some pertinent info.

I am also amazed by how so many clearly-intelligent devoted scientists can flat-out contradict each other. If they were 12 and on the playground, it would be a clear case of someone lying, LOL! In the scientific realm however, it gets so much cloudier! Guess I'm gonna have to learn to read the medical journal articles and analyze the foundational research myself at this point.

And will continue looking at the other resources mentioned so far, too!

Thank you guys!

Tracey in Oregon

[SunshineMN]

I wouldn't really trust the medical journals after it was found out a lot of pharma companies were faking journals and articles. Doctors would be paid to let them use their name on an article the pharma companies wrote themselves. How do you choose which one to trust and believe? I don't even trust my own general practitioner because of these practices!

[Raw Angel Mom]

Read the "China Study"

If you are into DVD then get "A diet for all reason" and "A diet for a new America"

All the best!

[walnutty]

Okay, I have watched Supersize Me, although as I recall, it's talking about commercial food sources, not raw, not home-produced.


You stated, "I'm looking for book recommendations on the subject of why meat and dairy are not good for us."


Considering Morgan Spurlock lived on almost nothing but meat and dairy for a full month and he got very sick, then I would think "Supersize Me" would be exactly what were you looking for.


???

[MysticTree]

Not sure why this thread has been resurrected but we don't advocate meat or dairy on this forum. Not even if it's raw.

[mousebandit]

Okay, looks like I didn't specify in my first sentence up there that I meant RAW meat and dairy, so sorry for that, and I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, honest, LOL!

I know that this site doesn't advocate meat or dairy of any type. Not trying to debate that or disagree with it at all!

Even though I've never been really clear on the distinctions of why those raw foods are not considered good for us, it didn't matter that much to me - I was cool with just following Allissa's recommendations and what everyone else was doing on this point, because it clearly is working for so many. However, my husband is talking about coming on-board with me here, and he does want some specific answers on this, and I would like to give him answers. I think it's mostly the raw dairy that he's questioning. I'm sure you can all understand why it is so important to me to answer his questions and have him doing this with me - to have a raw husband in the house would be a dream-come-true!!

The only studies I can find that specifically address raw diary are from the Weston A. Price Foundation, and while not very modern or upheld by the modern establishment (of course, LOL!) they do seem logical and trustworthy.

It does sound like the China Study might tackle this more though, since at the time they were doing that study (in rural China in the 70's I think) I doubt they would have been dealing with pasteurized Holstein milk (which has zero comparison with raw milk from heritage breed cows, of course). As soon as our truck is out of the shop, I will be going to town and will buy that one. I will also check out those last 2 movies you mentioned, Raw Angel Mom! Thanks!

I'm not trying to debate the issue on here at all, just looking for resources elsewhere that I can go use to educate myself, so that I can then discuss this intelligently with my hubby and hopefully get some more support here at home, and improve his health, too!

That said though, unless the last few recommendations come through with some tangible arguements against raw dairy, I am coming to the conclusion that the primary reasoning against it, from a raw vegan perspective, will be ethical/moral considerations, since raw dairy has NO ties to the commercial dairy industry and the same (or even less) nutritional comparison to cooked milk as raw produce does to cooked produce. Not that that's bad, it's just not what I expected to find. :-) There is a LOT of information out there about the details of why cooked plant-based food is not only inferior to raw, but exactly how it over-taxes our bodies and clearly can harm us. In the realm of raw dairy though, I'm finding pretty much NO explanations, which is frustrating.

Unless someone wants to hear my thoughts on the stuff I'm reading and watching, I'll refrain from commenting again, but I am still very open to being directed towards any resources that discuss the perils of RAW dairy (probably just going to give up on the meat issue as he doesn't seem as worried about that). Not advocating consuming raw dairy, not looking to debate, just looking to educate myself with the nutritional facts about why raw veganism shuns it, so I can go explain that to hubby. Just like I explained to him the nutritional differences between cooked veggies and raw veggies. :-)

Thanks everyone for helping me on this journey!

Tracey in Oregon

[phak-i-tu]

I respect your position Roman, but I'm just as Bible-believing as my hunny, so I won't be attacking the Bible anytime soon. :-)

I still, however, would love to see some more resources on why and how raw dairy (and meat) are damaging to our health, to share that with the man. I just got done watching Forks Over Knives, and will be checking out The China Study book, as it sounds like that might have some pertinent info.

I am also amazed by how so many clearly-intelligent devoted scientists can flat-out contradict each other. If they were 12 and on the playground, it would be a clear case of someone lying, LOL! In the scientific realm however, it gets so much cloudier! Guess I'm gonna have to learn to read the medical journal articles and analyze the foundational research myself at this point.

And will continue looking at the other resources mentioned so far, too!

Thank you guys!

Tracey in Oregon
Did you ever read 'Back to Eden' by Jethro Kloss? He was an herbal healer and circuit preacher as well, starting in the late 1800's. Don't get the 'revised' addition put out by his grandkids; get the old original, so you can enjoy his drawings. (by the time the grandkids did their revisions, political correctness had infested society and his depictions of the weird shapes people got into from bad diets were no longer considered acceptable.....ninnies...) Amazon is likely to have one on the 'used and new' link where you'd find it very cheaply. He's not raw but he's vegan and his excellent book is still unmatched, in my opinion, as a standard 'must-have' in the home in the treatment of various illnesses, not least because of his lucid and sensible communication skills. There are many scriptural references throughout, for the religiously-inclined.