Agave Nectar

[Joanna.K]

Managed to find a bottle of this at my local super market. They only stock the Light and Mild version, heres a link to the brand that they sock >>>
http://www.groovyfood.co.uk/pages/groovy_nectar.html
I'm extremely impressed how honey-like its consistency is and how incredibly sweet it is (amazing stuff, really!) however, it does say that its heated during the process to make it. Ive been doing a little research and there seems to be two methods to making Agave necter, one using enzymes and one using heat. This brand states: "...... They then filter this juice, heat it a little and then wait - ...." (can read the full extract when you click on the light and mild bottle on the link given)

So, im concerned how much heat this little heat really is? Anybody have any ideas? Or shall I email the company and ask?

Was gutted when I found out :( Heard so much about this stuff and so thought it was totally fine to consume as a raw foodist. Maybe it still is! I dunno... wanted to ask you guys first though since theres a lot of experts around this place :)

Thanks in advance;
Joanna

[michigan roman]

ive seentoo many bright people into raw foods not like the agave manufacturing proccess so i opt for 100% pure maple syrup as it tastes better than anything ands just whole simple boiled tree sap . plus i can buy it in glass bottles as opposed to the plastic agaves stored in . though im opting as much as possible to get my sugar kick from fruits

[MysticTree]

ive seentoo many bright people into raw foods not like the agave manufacturing proccess so i opt for 100% pure maple syrup as it tastes better than anything ands just whole simple boiled tree sap . plus i can buy it in glass bottles as opposed to the plastic agaves stored in . though im opting as much as possible to get my sugar kick from fruits

I find dates and/or raw honey are good. I realise some people don't do honey for vegan reasons but I'm not a ethical vegan so honey is ok for me.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Highly regarded researcher Dr Brian says that agave nectar is almost always heated and is actually worse than high fructose corn syrup. lt dead food. Might be better off eating refined sugar instead.

Read this:

A Not-So-Sweet Invention

“Raw” agave nectar (also known as agave syrup) is a sweetener that’s making its way into the mainstream. Consumers can even find agave nectar in large jugs in the big box stores. Marketers of agave nectar make two principal claims, “agave nectar is raw” and “agave 
nectar is a safe alternative sweetener for diabetics.”

First off, most agave nectar is not raw. It is heated well above 118°F during processing. This excerpt from FoodProcessing.com outlines how agave is processed: “Agave plants are crushed, and the sap collected into tanks. The sap is then heated to about 140°F for about 36 hours not only to concentrate the liquid into a syrup, but to develop the sweetness. The main carbohydrates in the agave sap are complex forms of fructose called fructosans, one of which is inulin, a straight-chain fructose polymer about eight to ten fructose sugar units long. In this state, the sap is not very sweet. When the agave sap is heated, the complex fructosans are hydrolyzed, or broken into their constituent fructose units. The fructose-rich solution is then filtered to obtain the desired products that range from dark syrup with a characteristic vanilla aroma, to a light amber liquid with more neutral characteristics.”(1)

Agave nectar is not a safe alternative sweetener for diabetics. Most agave nectar has a higher fructose content than any commercial sweetener. While the syrup has a minimum fructose content of 55% (depending on the source and processing method), most of the agave nectar on the market averages 70 – 97% fructose (depending on the brand). You read it right — most agave syrup has a far higher fructose content than high fructose corn syrup (which averages 55%). Agave does have a low glycemic index, but of greater concern to diabetics is the fact that fructose radically increases insulin resistance. While it’s normal for insulin levels to temporarily rise, insulin resistance causes levels to remain elevated.

Simply put, agave nectar could be more threatening to diabetics than high fructose corn syrup.(2) Diabetic or not, people would do better to use sweeteners such as pure glucose 
(dextrose) or stevia leaf (not processed stevia-based sweeteners like Truvia 
and Purevia).

Got to be careful of all the misinformation in the raw food world, lots of sharks that want your money, and some raw food leaders possibly controlled by hostile entities behind the scenes. Even the organic industry is in trouble; soon there will be dangerous additives (some of the most dangerous known to man) put into organic and by law the farmers won't have to report it. The future of organic looks finished, the junk yard dogs have arrived in big numbers and big pharma is rubbing it's hands in delight.

The raw food movement is a threat to big business, so the illuminati are bringing it down. Weeds and grass is the real future of organic.

[MysticTree]

Got to be careful of all the misinformation in the raw food world, lots of sharks that want your money, and some raw food leaders possibly controlled by hostile entities behind the scenes. Even the organic industry is in trouble; soon there will be dangerous additives (some of the most dangerous known to man) put into organic and by law the farmers won't have to report it. The future of organic looks finished, the junk yard dogs have arrived in big numbers and big pharma is rubbing it's hands in delight.
It's taken a long time for big business to realise that "organic" is big business! It won't be long before "organic" will be pretty meaningless.



The raw food movement is a threat to big business, so the illuminati are bringing it down. Weeds and grass is the real future of organic.

I don't think Raw is a threat to big business and I don't think weeds and grass is the answer - growing your own food definitely is but it can be more than just weeds and grass.

[DebB]

I've given up agave and like Georgina, I use dates now for sweetening. Here's a dynamite sweetener if you want to give it a try. I have some in the freezer all the time:

Nectar of the Gods (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thuUwGcRk-0&feature=plcp&context=C375cf0eUDOEgsToPDskK1xwrTerwZK_YI_xPYqBqK )

But for something like sweetening tea, my husband uses stevia liquid...

[Joanna.K]

Thanks for the reply's. Really gutted to hear this, the taste was amazing. Ahwell, ill stick to fruits and maple syrup for my sweets tooth instead :)

Now this talk about "big pharma" and co taking over the organics and natural side of food and basically screwing it over royally does scare me, a lot. I remember doing a lot of reading about such things a couple of years ago but have fallen out of the loop with it. I might do some more reading about it again - having said that it gets me incredibly down, way too much doom and gloom to cope with >< Squeak.

[walnutty]

I use this brand of agave and find that it does not raise my blood sugars (I'm diabetic)...read about how they obtain it, it's pretty interesting:

http://www.xagave.com/about-xagave.html

[walnutty]

I also use honey, dates, stevia and raisins as sweeteners. Sometimes, though, agave is best in a certain recipe (for me anyway) because of its neutral flavor.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I don't think Raw is a threat to big business and I don't think weeds and grass is the answer - growing your own food definitely is but it can be more than just weeds and grass.

Last year, Obama's government introduced a bill to actually have the power to stop all small farmers and land owners from growing fruit and vegetables. l am not sure if the bill was passed, but the government wanted the powers there for future possible use. l feel that big business and big pharma wan't the small players out of the way so that they can control the food supply and get rid of the health food movement. There is a big move towards shutting the health movement down completely, and l sometimes get petitions from HHI asking me to help stop Obama trying to make supplements illegal to buy from health food shops, etc.

There is lots of bad stuff going on very quietly behind the scenes, but fortunately it is leaked and some of us do hear about it because we keep our eyes out. Some of the new health food standards is quiet scary now. Even about 60% of so called organic supplements sold in health food shops are made with petrochemicals.

There is a move from the elite to bring complete slavery to the world, and poisoning the water and eroding the health food movement is one of the ways to try and snare complete control. lf planes can fly over and scan the land for drugs, why can't they scan the ground for households and small farms growing fruit and vegies?? That's why l say to be prepared for the worse and live on grass and break completely away from the system.

Has anyone heard of the FEMA camps and trains? The word is that there is going to be mass genocide in concentration camps already bulit, and you can even see hundreds of thousands of coffins ready to put masses of people in. They don't want a world of 7 billion, they want a world of 500 million, and if people stay plugged into a system you will be at their mercy. lf it does happen, l am not sticking around to be in line for the camps, i'm splittin' and living off the land and living off the grasses and weeds. But if all the time lines converge (which they are supposed to), these people running the show will be stifled, but best be prepared anyway.

They even are supposed to have technology now where big brother can actually watch and record household activities through your t.v and set top box. lf a person puts a foot out of line, they will be history. With the low evolvement of the human race and it's love for money, power, corruption, lies and ability for violence...it doesn't surprise me that these things are probably going on.

Why do you think they are trying to erode organics and the rest? lt's about eroding our rights and not doing what's in out interest. Since whistle blowers are exposing what is going on, there is also supposed to be a movement this year to completely censor the internet so people have no access to health information and what the future dictatorship world government is up to. lt's history repeating itself again, get rid of the threat (people's access to information) and keep them in the dark so they can be easier controlled, + drug them up with chemicals in our water and food supplies and dose `em up with booze, parties, sport, mainstream music and t.v so they don't have to think anymore. lnternet censorship is like the book and scroll burnings in the old days.

[MysticTree]

Last year Obama's government introduced a bill to actually have the power to stop all small farmers and land owners from growing fruit and vegetables. l am not sure if the bill was passed, but the government wanted the powers there for future possible use. l feel that big business and big pharma wan't the small players out of the way so that they can control the food supply and get rid of the health food movement. There is a big move towards shutting the health movement down completely, and l sometimes get petitions from HHI asking me to help stop Obama trying to make supplements illegal to buy from health food shops, etc.

There is lots of bad stuff going on very quietly behind the scenes, but fortunately it is leaked and some of us do hear about it because we keep our eyes out. Some of the new health food standards is quiet scary now. Even about 60% of so called organic supplements sold in health food shops are made with petrochemicals.

We are in different countries of course and that makes some difference. I feel certain we would know if such a ludicrous bill had been passed in the US ... even all the way over here. Sometimes I think they put up ludicrous bills in order that something else slips through barely debated.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

We are in different countries of course and that makes some difference.
lt might at the moment, but l think in time that will change. Australia is going down that path now too.


I feel certain we would know if such a ludicrous bill had been passed in the US ... even all the way over here.
The mainstream media would not be allowed to report it because they are illuminati controlled and are some of the major players who are behind all of this. lt's not your average journalists, it's the people who own the media empires and some of the people they are answerable to who call the shots.



Sometimes I think they put up ludicrous bills in order that something else slips through barely debated.
YES. When there is big media publicity about nothing and parliament is sitting, it often means that they are trying to put through a bill that erodes the public's rights....that's when you try getting hold of parliamentary records and checking what they are up to.

[MysticTree]

The mainstream media would not be allowed to report it because they are illuminati controlled and are some of the major players who are behind all of this. lt's not your average journalists, it's the people who own the media empires and some of the people they are answerable to who call the shots.


Be that as it may if a law is passed then it's unenforceable if no-one is allowed to know that it's been passed so my point is that we'd know if it had been passed.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

WARNING.....this will blow your mind sky high:



Be that as it may if a law is passed then it's unenforceable if no-one is allowed to know that it's been passed so my point is that we'd know if it had been passed.

Maybe the bill has been passed but it lays dormant. People will only become aware when the bill becomes active.

In Australia something even worse happened. The government actually changed the constitution illegally by misleading the public, the high court acted illegally and the Australian Tax Office doesn't actually exist. everything we think how the system works is a complete illusion (more about that in a moment). The chief high justice of the High Court also ruled that "we are not entitled to fair and just tax laws".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efULRsalRi0&feature=related

To make things worse, the court system is a complete illusion. Under common law you don't have to pay tax because the taxation department is illegal. In actual fact, all our tax dollars goes to the U.S Federal reserve Bank [which is a private company, not government owned]. Our roads etc are paid for by illegal counterfeit money and our tax dollars goes into the Rothchild family's (rulers of the world) pockets. Under common law you do not need a drivers licence, nor do you have to pay back credit card debt because there there is no original invoice in existence because the money is from counterfeit government money printed at the mint. Under common law a policeman has no legal right to pull a private citizen over in their vehicle to fine them for not wearing a seat belt or for speeding. And under common law the Magistrate and County courts have no right to hear any cases of private individuals because the judges have no jurisdiction. The only way they can fine you and send you to those to courts and make you pay taxes and jail you is by creating a strawman. By creating a strawman the government gets the unknowing public to assume responsibility for being a public entity, and if you assume responsibility as a public entity you have to obey common law. This is how they do it…..when you get your drivers licence it has JOE BLOW in capital letters as your name. BUT….legally that isn’t your real flesh and blood name, that is actually a strawman name that tricks you into thinking it is your real name, it is your public entity name where people forgo all rights. Your real name is Joe Blow, Not JOE BLOW. That is the little legal hitch that takes away your rights. Lf you go to court you must be nice, but you must insist that the judge prove he has jurisdiction over the case, but because he is acting illegally he can’t and will throw the case out. This brilliant link explains it below, and if you don’t believe the link, trying sending back your next speeding fine with RTS on the envelope and send after 21 days, see what happens, you will be surpised.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgDVRrPFTQ0

Now, when it gets to the higher courts, the common law no longer applies [from what l understand]. Lt is completely lawless and judges do what they like, that’s why the High Court can act illegally and support other illegal businesses such as the tax department.

Pretty interesting hey? I told you we lived in an illusion. You can even make your own private drivers licence and number plates if you know the law well enough.

[MysticTree]

WARNING.....this will blow your mind sky high:




Maybe the bill has been passed but it lays dormant. People will only become aware when the bill becomes active.

In Australia something even worse happened. The government actually changed the constitution illegally by misleading the public, the high court acted illegally and the Australian Tax Office doesn't actually exist. everything we think how the system works is a complete illusion (more about that in a moment). The chief high justice of the High Court also ruled that "we are not entitled to fair and just tax laws".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efULRsalRi0&feature=related

To make things worse, the court system is a complete illusion. Under common law you don't have to pay tax because the taxation department is illegal. In actual fact, all our tax dollars goes to the U.S Federal research [which is a private company]. Our roads etc are paid for by illegal counterfeit money and our tax dollars goes into the Rothchild family's (rulers of the world) pockets. Under common law you do not need a drivers licence, nor do you have to pay back credit card debt because there there is no original invoice in existence because the money is from counterfeit government money printed at the mint. Under common law a policeman has no legal right to pull you over in your vehicle to fine you for not wearing a seat belt or for speeding. And under common law the Magistrate and County courts have no right to hear any cases of private individuals because the judges have no jurisdiction. The only way they can fine you and send you to those to courts and make you pay taxes and jail you is by creating a strawman. By creating a strawman the government gets the unknowing public to assume responsibility for being a public entity, and if you assume responsibility as a public entity you have to obey common law. This is how they do it…..when you get your drivers licence it has JOE BLOW in capital letters as your name. BUT….legally that isn’t your real flesh and blood name, that is actually a strawman name that tricks you into thinking it is your real name, it is your public entity name where people forgo all rights. Your real name is Joe Blow, Not JOE BLOW. That is the little legal hitch that takes away your rights. Lf you go to court you must be nice, but you must insist that the judge prove he has jurisdiction over the case, but because he is acting illegally he can’t and will throw the case out. This brilliant link explains it below, and if you don’t believe the link, trying sending back your next speeding fine with RTS on the envelope and send after 21 days, see what happens, you will be surpised.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgDVRrPFTQ0

Now, when it gets to the higher courts, the common law no longer applies [from what l understand]. Lt is completely lawless and judges do what they like, that’s why the High Court can act illegally and support other illegal businesses such as the tax department.

Pretty interesting hey? I told you we lived in an illusion. You can even make your own private drivers licence and number plates if you know the law well enough.

I am at work at the moment so I can't view the link. You say this applies in the UK? Or not? It's not clear from your post.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I am at work at the moment so I can't view the link. You say this applies in the UK? Or not? It's not clear from your post.

l can't say for sure, but it obviously does in the U.S, and l would strongly suspect the U.K as well.

This is life changing stuff Mystic Tree. We need to put a stop to what they are doing. This is only a fraction of what is going on, l could write hundreds of pages of stuff that would blow your mind sooo sky high that you'd reach the bleedin' moon mate. Most people have no idea because they are too busy watching t.v and doing other stuff to even do the research to find out, and most people are so brainwashed that they wouldn't believe it anyway.

[MysticTree]

l can't say for sure, but it obviously does in the U.S, and l would strongly suspect the U.K as well.

This is life changing stuff Mystic Tree. We need to put a stop to what they are doing. This is only a fraction of what is going on, l could write hundreds of pages of stuff that would blow your mind sooo sky high that you'd reach the bleedin' moon mate. Most people have no idea because they are too busy watching t.v and doing other stuff to even do the research to find out, and most people are so brainwashed that they wouldn't believe it anyway.

You'll probably think I am dreadful but I don't think there is anything that can be done. I will shuffle of this mortal coil at some point and be jolly glad to go.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

You'll probably think I am dreadful but I don't think there is anything that can be done. I will shuffle of this mortal coil at some point and be jolly glad to go.

There is something that can be done, but there has to be a mass movement. People need to stop money flow in the economy and start bartering again so big business is sent to it's knees. When bis business goes broke the whole corrupt system will collapse along with taxation and inflation. We also need to bring the gold standard back, it was only abolished so banks could print money and cause massive inflation by the Rothchild's charging 40% interest to governments around the world. That's why houses cost $500,000 on average instead of $2,000.

Another con here....the Vatican is supposed to own all the land in the world except for two places (one square km in London and somewhere else). The con is that we are conned into paying for the land when we don't have to, because we never own the land or the cars that we buy. And under a technicality of roman law the masses are actually classified as animals and given special numbers and registered on the New York Stock exchange, so under the laws pushed, we have no right to own cars, houses, land or anything. When forms ask whether you are male or female, they are getting you to actually admit you are an animal by either ticking M or F in the box, it's all old laws from hundreds of years ago designed to trick you out of your rights.

Another thing...your birth certificate is actually not your own, it is a strawman's birth certificate. The Vatican owns your birth certficate. Strangely, l have heard that you can sue either the Church or courts for millions for breach of copyrite.

We live in a funny world.

[MysticTree]

There is something that can be done, but there has to be a mass movement. People need to stop money flow in the economy and start bartering again so big business is sent to it's knees. When bis business goes broke the whole corrupt system will collapse along with taxation and inflation. We also need to bring the gold standard back, it was only abolished so banks could print money and cause massive inflation by the Rothchild's charging 40% interest to governments around the world. That's why houses cost $500,000 on average instead of $2,000.

Another con here....the Vatican is supposed to own all the land in the world except for two places (one square km in London and somewhere else). The con is that we are conned into paying for the land when we don't have to, because we never own the land or the cars that we buy. And under a technicality of roman law the masses are actually classified as animals and given special numbers and registered on the New York Stock exchange, so under the laws pushed, we have no right to own cars, houses, land or anything. When forms ask whether you are male or female, they are getting you to actually admit you are an animal by either ticking M or F in the box, it's all old laws from hundreds of years ago designed to trick you out of your rights.

Another thing...your birth certificate is actually not your own, it is a strawman's birth certificate. The Vatican owns your birth certficate. Strangely, l have heard that you can sue either the Church or courts for millions for breach of copyrite.

We live in a funny world.

Does it state on the certificate "property of the Vatican"?

The gold standard is all very well but with purchase taxes still in place it would fail. If I buy a gold ring here of a given weight I pay 20% more than it is worth due to sales tax (VAT in this country).

etc etc etc ... not raw discussion really is it.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

etc etc etc ... not raw discussion really is it.

Yeah true. l feel alittle bad for going off topic, but l reckon this exception was well worth it. Hope everyone reads it and start researching all this stuff.

btw: the strawman link starts getting to the good stuff at 28 minutes onwards, but l would listen from the start anyway.

[SunCafe]

I've talked to a raw foodest MD researcher and they concur that NO sweetener is good for you: not honey, not dates, not agave, not maple sugar (not raw), not date sugar (not raw). Stevia is not a sweetener, it just tastes sweet, but I hate the aftertaste. She also stated agave is no worse than other sweeteners.

So it's best to limit sweets, regardless of the source.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I've talked to a raw foodest MD researcher and they concur that NO sweetener is good for you: not honey, not dates, not agave, not maple sugar (not raw), not date sugar (not raw).


Exactly! Brian Clement has been saying that for years and has the clinical research to prove it along with some impressive science via blood testing.

[MysticTree]

Exactly! Brian Clement has been saying that for years and has the clinical research to prove it along with some impressive science via blood testing.

Can you point me in the direction of this published data please.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Can you point me in the direction of this published data please.

l heard Brian on youtube talking about all of this stuff. He has certainly done his homework and is in one of the best positions to be able to make such statements.

[PansyLo]

Does it state on the certificate "property of the Vatican"?

The gold standard is all very well but with purchase taxes still in place it would fail. If I buy a gold ring here of a given weight I pay 20% more than it is worth due to sales tax (VAT in this country).

etc etc etc ... not raw discussion really is it.

Bringing the gold standard back is completely unviable. I think it would only make things worse, it would mean broadening the gap between classes again where the rich would be rich and the poor wouldn't see a sniff of it. It would be a complete break down in economy and simply couldn't function in a modern world. It would only be a horrible step backwards if anything. Besides the existence of money is what has lead to such wide spread corruption in the first place, government scams, conspiracies, a huge percent of crimes all revolve around money.

What we need to do is completely abolish the monetary system entirely and live on a resource based system. Stop all the greed, secrets, lies, ignorance and materialism and start living in a way that's actually feasible for continued life on this planet.

In a way it is kind of related to our food as the way food is made just now is basically poisoning us. In a system designed for the planet and for us we could use technology to grow food that isn't full of chemicals and wouldn't be detrimental to the environment. Clean food could be widely available. It's completely within our capabilities it's simply not profitable.

Maybe a thread could be started to continue this discussion in another part of the forum.

There isn't just a general section is there... Personal Development section? I think educating yourself and having an opinion on these matters is a way of developing yourself. ;)


As for Agave I have never even seen it sold. I'm using raw honey as a sweetener. It might not be best but as I'm just starting out and it's easy to buy I think it'll do fine. It's got to be better than the mountains of unrefined sugar I ate until lately...

[MysticTree]

As for Agave I have never even seen it sold. I'm using raw honey as a sweetener. It might not be best but as I'm just starting out and it's easy to buy I think it'll do fine. It's got to be better than the mountains of unrefined sugar I ate until lately...

I use raw honey too and dates but not all that much really. I think it's fine to use sweeteners of this sort in moderation.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Bringing the gold standard back is completely unviable. I think it would only make things worse, it would mean broadening the gap between classes again where the rich would be rich and the poor wouldn't see a sniff of it. It would be a complete break down in economy and simply couldn't function in a modern world. It would only be a horrible step backwards if anything.

lf you have spent time studying into this, you will find that the opposite is actually true. l could go into much detail as to why this is the case, but this is not the topic to be discussing this. l have veared this topic off course enough as it is.

Everything the professors taught me during my economics degree was an illusion. They were hardly right about anything.

[blessteve]

Exactly! Brian Clement has been saying that for years and has the clinical research to prove it along with some impressive science via blood testing.


So dates are not good for you ?

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

So dates are not good for you ?
No dehydrated food is too good, but if you insist on eating 1 star foods, just eat them in moderation.

lt's better to concentrate on the 3, 4 and 5 star foods, and make the 1 and 2 star foods a smaller part of the diet.

[PansyLo]

Pretty much any sugar isn't too good for you. Some is a lot better than others though and it's about moderation. I've always had a sweet tooth, I absolutely love dates and raw honey. Actually I wish I'd realised how much better raw honey tastes to the normal cheap honey I used for years.

On the plus side I've found that the more I ease myself off it the less I need to satisfy my love of sweet foods.

I will have to make raw strawberry milkshake sometimes as a treat though.


lf you have spent time studying into this, you will find that the opposite is actually true. l could go into much detail as to why this is the case, but this is not the topic to be discussing this. l have veared this topic off course enough as it is.

I haven't spent much time studying it at all, I've read a little and formed a few opinions based on what I know but I'd be interested in learning more about it. Did you read into this online? Maybe you could send me a private message with a links to somewhere I could read into it further and read different theories. I'd love to hear your ideas in more detail. Or if it was books or somewhere else you learnt about it maybe you could point me towards that. :)

Sorry for continuing the off topic conversation! I just think these things are important as well as extremely interesting.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I haven't spent much time studying it at all, I've read a little and formed a few opinions based on what I know but I'd be interested in learning more about it. Did you read into this online? Maybe you could send me a private message with a links to somewhere I could read into it further and read different theories. I'd love to hear your ideas in more detail. Or if it was books or somewhere else you learnt about it maybe you could point me towards that. :)

Sorry for continuing the off topic conversation! I just think these things are important as well as extremely interesting.

There is so much to the story, and what an amazing story it is! Everything the education system has taught us about science, history and economics is not the reality. Education has been designed to keep us in the dark so our power is taken away.

We always thought the pyramids were built by the Egyptians, but nothing could be further from the truth. We always thought our tax dollars went into building infrastructure etc, but nothing could be further from the truth. We live in a created illusion. Now where do l start all of this...this is BIG.

l have hundreds of hours of links and reading and emails from all types of informed people/whistle blowers, do you have the time to go through all of this?

There is definitely something wrong in our economies. Why are things as expensive as they are? Why are most people always broke, despite working hard? Why are governments broke? Who the heck has all the money? Just a few things to think about here. Most governments are broke because they initially pay 40% tax on all money printed and send it to a private family called the Rothchilds, then they also collect tax from tax payers and send that to them as well. That's why we have about 20 trillionaire families, one worth a reported 500 trillion (half the worlds money is owned by them, an no, Bill Gates is not the richest man, he is a pauper compared to the people who run the show). And what is even crazier is that the land we buy and houses and cars are not actually owned by us because under manufactured roman law we have no right to own anything because we are classified as animals, that's why we are asked whether we are male or female on government documents.

WE better be very careful, the monetary system can't keep on supporting the printing of illegal counterfeit money (yes, most of the currency we use IS illegal), and the stock market will crash and money won't be worth anything before too long. We need to buy gold and silver, because this is the currency of the future. l see a time in the not too distant future when there won't be any shops to sell us stuff, and that was always the plan. The rulers of the world have the money, but the rest of us won't, and if we are in the system we will be reliant on them completely. Ask you tax department where they bank all our `so called' tax payer dollars'...they won't be able to give you an answer. Ask for an invoice from a credit card company proving any debt you may have...they won't be able to, because all of it is illegal money printed from the Mint. lt is a strange system we live in, nothing like we are taught, and that's how the leaders running the show want it.

Even 9/11 was a set up. Why did the enemy that crashed into those two towers never come back after that day??? Why was Bin Laden never shown dead? Why were weapons of mass destruction never found?

The media aren't telling us the truth because they are illuminati run.

l'll have to think about this and try and find words to explain this properly, but only if you are hungry for the info, because l am very time poor. Maybe l could send a p.m.

l'll give you something to warm you up, if you like it, let me know and i'll p.m you a heap of stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

l'll give you something to warm you up, if you like it, let me know and i'll p.m you a heap of stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

lt's best to read and listen to all this stuff as soon as possible because l have heard that many websites will be blocked this year because far too much information has gotten out. Even raw food sites will be blocked because they are a threat. Evenstill, computer people say there will be a way around it, but still...

Also be very careful of google, it is a very hostile controlled entity.

Also try and avoid wikipedia, another foul mischief maker.

The world as we know it is a complete and utter illusion, but thousands (maybe millions) of people have woken up.

[MysticTree]

deleted - changed my mind about posting

[PansyLo]

They have agave in Waitrose after all!

It didn't look as real (for lack of better adjective) as raw honey. Raw honey just looks like a good natural food. Agave looked like un-raw honey or processed syrup.

Which is better since I have the option?

I'm pretty keen in sticking with the honey to be honest but if Agave is particularly better then I'd consider switching.

[rawmiss]

and you can even see hundreds of thousands of coffins ready to put masses of people in.

I know you are repeating what you have heard and here might be a clue about it's authenticity. I've never heard of genocide where they put the bodies in coffins so I think we can relax. :throwhearts:

[MysticTree]

and really, all this "end of the world" stuff doesn't matter. It may be a bit unpleasant while it's happening but humankind is no great shakes and the earth will get on very well without us.

I think it is the height of self conceit to think that the human race is all that much.

[PansyLo]

^ I completely disagree.

If the entire human species is wiped out chances are most life will be too. The earth will carry on and eventually renew itself but what the hell's the point if there's no conscious life to appreciate it? It'll just be a rock supporting basic mindless life for another few million years. And who knows that there ever would be time again to develop life on the planet again? It took about 96 million years to get this far, who knows what will happen to our solar system in that time. Chances are it wont be stable for that long.

The odds that lead us to exist at all are so slim. You can just dismiss us as unimportant. Humans can be horrible but they can also be utterly fantastic.

It's not conceited at all to believe we shouldn't waste it all by killing ourselves.

Though I'm not sure how this end of the human race stuff got into the conversation.

@rawmiss: While you make a good point that's just a small detail. And I have no idea where that detail's from.

Thinking we can relax though? That would be a mistake.

The way the government (particularly American but I'm sure Britain at lot to answer for too) has been running a long tome is highly suspect. There are definitely things that we don't know. 9/11 for example was totally botched, you just need to watch the first zeitgeist movement film to see that totally picked apart. It's just a repeat of what people of power have been doing for hundreds of years or more. Religion, Christianity in particular has always been used to control people and benefit a select few and was probably created for that very reason. The crusades, inquisitions, crushing the development of early science all in the name of god and all while taking in enormous amounts of money.

Even if our governments were completely transparent and nothing at all was going on behind the scenes (which once looking into it is totally impossible to conceive) then they must be completely incompetent! Money is still an enormous issue as the money we use doesn't even exist it's all borrowed from central banks who simply print it out and add it to our enormous outstanding debt. The economy is collapsing. We're still living off natural resources and destroying our environment. Most of our food is poison. Our education system is dreadful and getting steadily worse. Many people have become completely apathetic and ignorant to anything going on in the world letting their time and mind be swallowed up by trivial entertainment such as television and games and mindless internet rubbish.

It doesn't matter how you look at it we are totally screwed and need to do something about it.

We also need to stop talking about it. It's a shame there's not a general section for when things get this off topic but everyone keeps trying to discuss it.

It would appear though that it's not a discussion for this forum.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

^ Religion, Christianity in particular has always been used to control people and benefit a select few and was probably created for that very reason. The crusades, inquisitions, crushing the development of early science all in the name of god and all while taking in enormous amounts of money.



Many people are leaving the religions now, but the bad news is that the satanists running the organisations behind the scenes have now moved into the music and television industry, so people are faced with the same old problem, but now it's worse because the technology has been manipulated to mind control almost everyone in the modern world. lt's got so bad that any major record label and it's associated lndy labels are completely off limits now and very few record companies remain free of satanic influence and negative mind control (lots of information about this if you search). As for t.v, it is full of satanic symbolism, and even seemingly innocent Walt Disney cartoons are some of the worst offenders doing people the most damage. You may say all this is too over the top and silly, but all you need to do is meditate and then play some pop music or watch t.v and observe the steady slide of spirituality within minutes, but if you watch shows or listen to music clean of these negative mind control influences the spiritual slide into the abyss will never happen. lt is one of the most serious problems facing us today, so we MUST be aware of occult symbolism and do our research and cut these things out of our lives. But it even goes much much further than that, but l don't want to go on too much about it here. l think all the religions had good things to say once upon a time, but now people have fiddled with the messages/texts and people have been fed misinformation so they are easy to control and kept from rising up to the heights in which they are naturally born to do.

The truth is much stranger than fiction.

[MysticTree]

Many people are leaving the religions now, but the bad news is that the satanists running the organisations behind the scenes have now moved into the music and television industry, so people are faced with the same old problem, but now it's worse because the technology has been manipulated to mind control almost everyone in the modern world. lt's got so bad that any major record label and it's associated lndy labels are completely off limits now and very few record companies remain free of satanic influence and negative mind control (lots of information about this if you search). As for t.v, it is full of satanic symbolism, and even seemingly innocent Walt Disney cartoons are some of the worst offenders doing people the most damage. You may say all this is too over the top and silly, but all you need to do is meditate and then play some pop music or watch t.v and observe the steady slide of spirituality within minutes, but if you watch shows or listen to music clean of these negative mind control influences the spiritual slide into the abyss will never happen. lt is one of the most serious problems facing us today, so we MUST be aware of occult symbolism and do our research and cut these things out of our lives. But it even goes much much further than that, but l don't want to go on too much about it here. l think all the religions had good things to say once upon a time, but now people have fiddled with the messages/texts and people have been fed misinformation so they are easy to control and kept from rising up to the heights in which they are naturally born to do.

The truth is much stranger than fiction.

We are not allowed to discuss religion on this forum.

I have no TV and watch pretty much no films btw

[blessteve]

Wish I could talk my wife into getting rid of the TV. She would be better off with out it.



I have no TV and watch pretty much no films btw

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

We are not allowed to discuss religion on this forum.

I have no TV and watch pretty much no films btw

No problem. l was talking in general and would never specify any particular religion. Bashing various religions is a big no no for me.

[MysticTree]

Wish I could talk my wife into getting rid of the TV. She would be better off with out it.

It is bliss. We have a radio and get a newspaper - though mostly the newspaper is for doing the crossword.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Wish I could talk my wife into getting rid of the TV. She would be better off with out it.
T.V and newspapers are not only a vessel for powerful mind control and misinformation, it is also a distraction that keeps us from reaching our true potential. Sport is another mind control nasty and distraction (not exercise, but competitive sport) along with mainstream education. lf they don't get us one way they will get us other ways. People have forgotten how to think these days, it is the biggest tragedy that has ever faced mankind. Sometimes l think that speaking to a block of wood would be so much more interesting.

[MysticTree]

if eating almost entirely sprouts makes you this paranoid I think I will cut right back on them.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

if eating almost entirely sprouts makes you this paranoid I think I will cut right back on them.

Not paranoid, i've done my research, my mind is as clear as a sunny day. Many people are waking up, but most folks will continue to walk around in a fog for a long time to come unfortunately because they have been programmed and accept the system. Try doing 300 or 400 hours worth of research and meditating, and see if you feel the same...the whistle blowers are coming out in droves now, that's why heavy internet censorship is a big possibility soon. There is a lot that doesn't add up, but people are too distracted and mind controlled to even question anything. lt's sad, but it is our own fault for being so stupid.

[blessteve]

Heavy internet censorship has been around for along time now. They simply call them filters.
Filters WOW what a noninvasive term for such control over what they allow us to read.
Years ago we could get into windows and turn them off but no more. Just built in and nobody talks about it anymore.



.the whistle blowers are coming out in droves now, that's why heavy internet censorship is a big possibility soon. .

[EscapeArtist]

There is lots of bad stuff going on very quietly behind the scenes, but fortunately it is leaked and some of us do hear about it because we keep our eyes out. Some of the new health food standards is quiet scary now. Even about 60% of so called organic supplements sold in health food shops are made with petrochemicals.

There is a move from the elite to bring complete slavery to the world, and poisoning the water and eroding the health food movement is one of the ways to try and snare complete control. lf planes can fly over and scan the land for drugs, why can't they scan the ground for households and small farms growing fruit and vegies?? That's why l say to be prepared for the worse and live on grass and break completely away from the system.

Has anyone heard of the FEMA camps and trains? The word is that there is going to be mass genocide in concentration camps already bulit, and you can even see hundreds of thousands of coffins ready to put masses of people in. They don't want a world of 7 billion, they want a world of 500 million, and if people stay plugged into a system you will be at their mercy. lf it does happen, l am not sticking around to be in line for the camps, i'm splittin' and living off the land and living off the grasses and weeds. But if all the time lines converge (which they are supposed to), these people running the show will be stifled, but best be prepared anyway.

They even are supposed to have technology now where big brother can actually watch and record household activities through your t.v and set top box. lf a person puts a foot out of line, they will be history. With the low evolvement of the human race and it's love for money, power, corruption, lies and ability for violence...it doesn't surprise me that these things are probably going on.

Why do you think they are trying to erode organics and the rest? lt's about eroding our rights and not doing what's in out interest. Since whistle blowers are exposing what is going on, there is also supposed to be a movement this year to completely censor the internet so people have no access to health information and what the future dictatorship world government is up to. lt's history repeating itself again, get rid of the threat (people's access to information) and keep them in the dark so they can be easier controlled, + drug them up with chemicals in our water and food supplies and dose `em up with booze, parties, sport, mainstream music and t.v so they don't have to think anymore. lnternet censorship is like the book and scroll burnings in the old days.

Totally. There is a lot going on behind the scenes. The worst part is that the government is real good at persuading people that have the facts that they're all just "conspiracy theorists". That label takes away so much from the truth. The fact that the NDAA passed is basically a turning point, now it is truly government vs. people. And having ACTA passed means that we are already under total surveillance on the internet and phones. And now this DSSA, Dietary Supplement Safety Act thing that could possibly take most supplements off the shelves that have been created after 1994. It's seriously on, they're going strong, I strongly believe we're going to have to take action at least in the next 5-10 years at most.


Oh yes, and Agave Syrup, don't want to get too off topic here. I've heard it's worse than HF corn syrup. Scam

[PansyLo]

^

I'd heard that too but then other's swear by it. It's sometimes hard to know what source to believe.

I didn't like the look of it. Raw honey is so obviously pure raw honey, it's got that grainy sugary texture and it's clear that it's unprocessed. I like the taste and trust that raw honey is a good option. All these things need to be used sparingly though, so whatever your choice in small quantities it's not going to kill you.


As for politics... I will stay out of this conversation. It's annoying because I've tried to start topics of this sort on other forums and nobody is interested in discussing it. It's nice to find people who are aware and want to discuss it. It's not fair to keep breaking the rules though, especially for those who are not interested who actually want to talk about Agave syrup! And it's only going to cause the place to be more disorganised.

[climbing]

Off topic but I agree with most of what Mr. Raw is talking about.

Re: agave.... I think it's nasty, toxic stuff. I was feeling sick and getting breakouts a lot after using it so I began doing some research and read so much horrible stuff about it. It isn't natural, anyone can market something as natural and slap an "organic" label on it so they can trick people. We can't trust anything in a world this greedy.

I use raw honey now on the rare occasions I need to sweeten something (which is pretty much only raw chocolate or when I make a raw cake--once in a blue moon). But really, I don't have a sweet tooth. Gimme something spicy over something sweet any day!

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Off topic but I agree with most of what Mr. Raw is talking about.



There is obviously a big consciousness shift, more than l thought. People are waking up.

Now, l could mention that there is a loophole where we don't have to pay any of our bills under our legal rights because our trust account automatically pays them for us, and all we are doing is double paying when we pay our bills, but l better not say anymore about this because no-one is ever going to believe me in a million years, but it is true. *wink* We are conned by a falsely created set of laws that gives the impression that we must pay our bills, but that is a carefully crafted illusion.

[GoodCat]

I'm closing this thread because its getting off track..

Mr. Raw please remember we do not discuss religious topics here.