Neural-Degeneration and Fruit Fueled Evolution

[Hagbard Celine]

howdy

(R)-awesome site! I’m relatively new here but I hope to be more active in the upcoming months. I’ve gone fully raw pretty recently but had been transitioning from my Standard American Diet (SAD) filled with steak and chips ect to a more natural and healthy one for years now..and so far I feel phenomenal! The book is Left In The Dark, by Tony Wright and Graham Gynn

Here is a free online .pdf he recently put on his website. Just scroll down far enough, its there. If you like what you see try and contribute to the research if you can: http://leftinthedark.org.uk/book There is reviews by many scientists and others on this page as well

Here is a nice summary of the general theory and additional info: http://beyond-belief.org.uk/node/8 http://beyond-belief.org.uk/node/25 http://www.indiegogo.com/Make-up-your-own-mind

Some things to keep in mind when reading the summary:

Symbiosis proliferates on many many levels of nature.. Terence McKenna once said that "plants evolved animals so they could move their seeds around.." This is literally one of the reasons why fruit (which is literally a womb for the seeds) is how it is: to attract animals to eat it so that they disperse its seeds around the forest floor. This helps ensure the plants survival. This win win situation is largely why the chemicals in food like fruit are so good for us (as we are continually finding now adays), and why they make us feel great to. Just consider this scenario for a moment..

We all know that we originated in Africa where our hairy, big brained, fruit eating cousins still hang..and that throughout a span of tens of millions of years we began incorporating higher amounts of fruit into our diet. We also know food affects brain size ( http://kowb1290.com/diet-affect-brain-size/ ) and that fruit is one of the most, if not the most complex and and nutritious foods on the entire planet. This companionship with fruit was extremely unique in that the food itself is a developmental environment for the seeds, meaning its like a womb wherein the thousands of present chemicals are influencing what is developing. This was then incorporated into our own developmental environments and had extremely unique affects, which are punctuated by our uniqueness compared to most other mammals.

Among the many different molecules in fruit, the thousands of flavonoids in there are transcription modifiers, meaning they are involved in chemically reading the DNA and changing how it is expressed..In other words, they alter how literally everything from cells to organs to brains are built- since this is all mediated through transcription.

Thousands upon thousands of these fruit chemicals flooded the womb the entire time the DNA was building the child because the mother was eating this cocktail of fruit bio-chemistry..and the blood of the mother literally is the blood of the fetus. This extended until after birth via breastfeeding where the same DNA reading chemicals would also be present.. And then on into life as the child began to eat by itself and acquire them directly. ( and yes mothers diet can affect child long into life http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080616151748.htm ) These transcription chemicals, like flavonoids for example, are not only endocrine modulators, but also MAOI, anti-oxidants, and inhibitors of aromatase- meaning they inhibit testosterone which also has a monumental affect on what develops.Not only that, but its also proven that they stimulate pineal gland and brain activity.. Which creates a circular loop since this results in more transcription modifying chemicals being produced by the pineal (which are very unique and do many things), and hence more brain activity, and on and on it goes amplifying over generations in a positive feedback loop.

We also know our brains mysteriously exploded in both its size and complexity faster than any other organ in any animal in the ENTIRE ARCHEOLOGICAL RECORD..and that now they have suddenly stalled and are shrinking. http://discovermagazine.com/2010/sep/25-modern-humans-smart-why-brain-sh...

Its no coincidence the most complex tissue in the known universe evolved during a symbiosis with the most complex orchestra of food we have ever seen flooding it for millions upon millions of years. The forest was like our womb, these chemicals were housed in the fruit itself which literally is a womb with its own array of chemicals which became virtually one with our own system 24/6 for evolutionary time scales.. We literally fused into this system for millenia. How could suddenly removing virtually ALL of the thousands of chemicals that were actively involved in reading the DNA and thus drastically altering how our entire organism is built NOT make an absolutely humungus difference?

If NASA was to dramatically change how they read or interpreted ( aka transcription) the blueprint(DNA) of a space shuttle, and then went about building it that way, would any sane person seriously think it would function as it did before? Say, if they used plastic or wood instead and goldschlager vodka as fuel? The human brain is light years beyond any technology we have created in its sheer complexity and sensitivity to even minute changes in its chemical make up (as any person who's taken mere micrograms of lsd, a few puffs of marijuana, or a few stiff drinks knows!)..and this is on a scale of millions upon millions of years and bam..suddenly our DNA looses basically all these transcription chemicals and its read totally different. Meaning the structure it produces would be extremely different as a consequence.

There is a ton of evidence for this. Even most mainstream myths, religions, ect. talk of this exact scenario, albeit in poetic right-brained lingo. A past golden age. The fall of mankind. The garden of eden. Basically our naked, harmonious, forest dwelling, fruit eating, paradisaical past.


Most relatively aware people all intuitively know our society is insane, at least on some level. But science has recently stumbled upon a mountain of information that supports this being an actual neurological condition, although it focuses on tiny details and never realizes how all these fit together into a broader context..Just realizing our brains stopped they're mysteriously fast expansion, are now possibly shrinking, that diet affects brain size, and our diet is now totally different should be enough to make us ask some questions and set some alarm bells off. But ironically it almost never is, which is almost a sign of how numb we have become.

Katherine Milton has found that our diets generally now contain only 5% of what they used to when we lived in Africa..This has huge implications in light of what we now know about our symbiosis and previous diets and its probably even less for most people these days stuck on processed garbage. That means we lost 95% + of the thousands upon thousands of transcription modifying chemicals, and for many they've lost basically all of it and replaced it with harmful substitutes..some of which seem to even cause the opposite of brain expansion- brain damage http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/31/trans-fats-brain-damage_n_1173487.html

We also need to realize there is many many more things we would have been getting on this diet that we've now lost. Our primate relatives still get roughly 3 to 4 thousand milligrams of vitamin C, a very important antioxidant concentrated around the brain. The daily recommendation in the U.S. these days is 53 milligrams..and we probably used to get at least 3-4 thousand mg while evolving. There is also a massive amounts of evidence showing we are fruigivores http://www.scribd.com/doc/17111888/Science-Verifies-That-Humans-Are-Frugivor

There are also many hints of higher functioning. Many altered states hint at this..Then things like speed reading - there is people who can read paragraphs or pages in mere seconds and retain 100% of it, or both pages of an open book at once-, photographic memory, meditation states, various 'savant' abilities, near perfect memory ect. ect. Here is just a few glimpses of some of these abilities.. http://wastedatwork.com/beer/b1tKA.jpg there is tons of neurological data presented in the book.


Just look around around with this idea in mind..pollution, deforestation, slavery (yes, even today in 2012), genocide, overpopulation, starvation while others buy yachts..look at this society where a state of anxiety and fear is the norm, where each country spends thousands of man hours and dollars designing and manufacturing countless devices made to kill other people. Where our genius is focused on creating these devices designed to slaughter our own species and destroy the earth. Many hardly register the beauty and mystery of our existence anymore http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=702kVrhOvL4#!

Our culture is largely a reflection, or expression, of our collective psychology. And we all sense something is wrong with our society...that is why this movement has started. Some people don't even have any idea of what is wrong with our system, but they sense it on visceral level. Its because the fundamental problem is literally within us


"At the period and place, whenever and wherever it was, when man first lost his hairy covering, he probably inhabited a hot country; a circumstance favourable for the frugiferous diet on which, judging from analogy, he subsisted." Charles Darwin

"problems cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them" Albert Einstein


Just look at the data in the book and decide for yourself..
peace

**(UPDATE: help support (and basically pre-buy since there is perks like kickstarter) two new books in the works on the guys project page here http://www.indiegogo.com/Make-up-your-own-mind This info has to reach more people, so spread the word please)

[fastfreedom]

WOW. I like you. ;-) It sounds like you and I are on the same level.

I'm not as eloquent with words, but the body definitely has a higher vibration when it's fueled with the food it has been designed to run on. Once the vibration has been raised, then a whole new world opens up and the only limiting factors become our own beliefs.

I've heard of that book before but not read it yet. It sounds interesting. I suppose it's time I get it.

[Hagbard Celine]

Yeah i definitely noticed a big difference in my body energy once i switched around my diet

I'm surprised almost no one here is interested in this idea. It seems that the info in support of such a theory is pretty extensive, and i mean the proof is in the pudding- Just reading the reports on this site of people turning their lives completely around and becoming filled with love and joy is very telling in itself of what diet we run most efficiently on :]

[fastfreedom]

-There are hints of higher functioning. Like speed reading, photographic memory, high meditation states, 'savant' abilities, ectect. The book goes into all of this

I'm definitely getting the book. These types of things have always been an interest of mine. But now that my body is becoming cleaner everyday I really notice the differences in my mind. I think maybe it's time to start practicing telekinesis again. ;-)

I can see and feel with my minds eye the vibration the world will be in once everyone adopts the proper nutrition for their bodies. It's an experience where words fall short.

I see people practicing consciousness and constantly trying to force themselves to think pure and be happy. But then they turn around and eat garbage, they really are oblivious to what's going on. If only they would fuel their bodies properly, "and of course clean out the garbage", they wouldn't need to practice harmony. It is a natural way of being when we consume those high vibrating plants that are here for us.

I've heard a quote of David Wolfe's that I agree with so much. "You are what you think, is not as powerful as you are what you eat."

When we eat high vibrating foods and vibrate in harmony then we can effortlessly become what we think.

[Hagbard Celine]

That's a great line :] We really are what we eat.. The beauty is that it seems we were in a sort of symbiosis with the jungle itself..dispersing the seeds.

I really need to read Wolfe's books. I've been listening to his talks for a while now though, very interesting stuff. Now that i think about it, he actually left a short review of the book on Tony's website: "I have been following Tony Wright's research for over a decade. I believe he has uncovered the primary mechanisms of humanity's dangerous levels of left-brained dominance and how to correct our hemispheric imbalances in order to create a sane and healthy future for us all. His book 'Left In The Dark' is highly recommended."

[fastfreedom]

It was in one of the youtube videos of David Wolfe that I heard him mention, "Left In The Dark". I really don't know why some other book took precedence over this one in my last book buying spree from amazon. I think I'm gonna order it tonight or tomorrow as soon as I think of a few other books I was wanting.

You mentioning that we seemed to be in symbiosis with the jungle dispersing seeds brings a great smile to me. I was thinking of this just today as I was driving back from the market. And it reminded me of how I made a comment to my grandma 6 months ago about the type of world we would live in if we planted every seed from the food we ate instead of throwing them away. So then I decided to update my signature earlier today so that it says...................................

[Hagbard Celine]

Yea its impossible to imagine the way we all experienced the world together back in the African jungles before we got separated from this environment, this symbiosis, flooding our blood and brains with the most complex orchestration of chemicals in the universe, for millions of years...all fine tuning the most complex organ we've ever seen

The situation now is almost an insane prison in comparison, since our cultures reflect our collective inner insanity.. but since the right is still way way more functional than the left we can make some drastic changes in our perception extremely quickly by combining this diet with certain techniques to access it (which have been employed by various traditions for millenia). So there is still a ton of reason to hope. And if this is finally looked at by the mainstream then we could make some huge changes very quickly if we put even a minute amount of our collective resources into restoration. And if/when that happens, things will turn around very quickly, for the better :dance:

[Hagbard Celine]

So has anyone read this or have any thoughts on it?

[fastfreedom]

Do you mean besides me? LOL

My book should be here on Thursday. I also ordered a book called, "The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce?: Interdimensional Communication and Global Transformation (http://www.amazon.com/Reincarnation-Edgar-Cayce-Interdimensional-Transformation/dp/1583940839/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329180848&sr=1-1)", which looks pretty good.

I'm a little surprised that no one else has been commenting in here about the book and links you've mentioned. But only a little. ;-)

[DebB]

Your posts are a bit over my head :) But I'm a fruit eater. I'm not eating 100% fruit, but getting closer all the time. I eat fruit until dinner, then I'm done with fruit for the day. Ofcourse, not the best time of year here for fruit. I'm so looking forward to this summer.

[Revvell]

Is there a Cliff's Notes version?

[MysticTree]

too much text. Give us the gist of what you are trying to say and then add in the flowery stuff after. There's only so many times I can read the word "womb" without switching off.

[Hagbard Celine]

Here's some links that should be of interest which explain it much better:

http://leftinthedark.org.uk/


The idea is basically a modern re-telling of all the myths of a past golden age (like garden of eden) and the 'fall of mankind', only its not a religious theory by any means but goes into all sorts of scientific data that shows fruit actually fueled our brains rapid expansion in size and complexity.. And that when we lost the extremely complex fruit chemistry (which is shown to change how DNA builds the brain/endocrine system) we actually began to loose the higher functioning that we once had. It cites tons of evidence for this and the book is pretty easy to understand and utterly mind blowing. Here's a free version:

http://leftinthedark.org.uk/sites/default/files/Left%20in%20the%20Dark%20free%20edition.pdf

sorry i overdid it and tried to explain to much i guess

[DawnD]

Thanks for the post. I have been away from RFT for a couple months and have been following FB (to catch up with family and the new grandbaby). I am starving for good information like this that reinforces why I strive to be raw in an unraw world. I will research more about the books and links as time permits.

It would be wonderful if the general population could experience the bliss and harmony that one has with raw food diet. I don't live in a constant state of bliss but those glimpses of total happiness and peacefulness are truly gems.

[Hagbard Celine]

Yeah that's partly why talking about this information to people stuck in the standard american type diet/mind-frame can be a bit frustrating at times. If many of them got even a glimpse at the healthier, more holistic and in tune states of being possible they would instantly understand where I'm coming from..and why you really are what you eat

[Hagbard Celine]

This short pictorial explains the general theory if you didn't want to read :)

http://leftinthedark.org.uk/sites/default/files/The%20missing%20link%20pictorial%20version_0.pdf

[Hagbard Celine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci0hI_Zk-2I

this new video explains the general theory in a nut shell

:eat

[aviatrix79]

Although I don’t agree with the Hagbard's opinion about suggesting we should be 100% fruit eaters, this is one of the most interesting topics raised in this forum... that I’ve come across anyway. I’m really surprised that more people here haven’t chipped in to discuss it extensively. Evolution, in my opinion is one of biggest factors that we should consider when deciding on the foods we ‘should’ be eating. Not just the evolution of our brain but our body as a whole... the evolution of our teeth for example is a big indication of the types of foods we ate as we evolved and it’s the addition of foods along side with fruits introduced into our diets that has contributed to our evolution. Our brain size didn’t increase dramatically because we ate fruit. If this was the case we’d be still be chimps living in the jungle, eating fruits and nitpicking off each other’s backs. Our brain size has increased because we moved away from being 100% frugivores. Our teeth evolved from predominately being small round molars to large rather flat ones and other teeth including large incisors and canines that can shred through veins in leaves, break down seeds and crack open nuts. We further evolved and began hunting, eating non-vegan foods which I’m not allowed to discuss here. This is why our brains have developed from a hominid of about 400g to the size of the human brain it is today... about 1.4kg (from memory). Suggesting that we should be 100% frugivores to keep increasing brain size does not make sense at all. We have evolved to eat a variety of foods that we physically could not eat before. I don’t know about anyone else but I’m quite content with my hairless back lol. Although fruits are still an essential part of our diets and sugar is essential for brain function, a diet on fruit alone has serious health consequences as it’s lacking many other nutrients required for bodily functions including brain function. B12 deficiency for example, left untreated can eventually cause damage to nerve endings and eventual brain damage. We have evolved for a reason and should remember that our environment evolved along with us. The fruits today are not the fruits that we were eating as our hairy friends. The soil today is not the soil that it was back then either. The soil today is depleted of nutrients and so we need to acquire our nutrients from a range of sources. We have evolved to eat other things and thus our body functions and behaviours have evolved as well. To Hagbard, I can understand how great you would feel and how you feel like you’ve awakened parts of your brain by switching to 100% fruit but that is because you've switched from a typical poor western diet to one of only fruit. Your body is detoxing along with your brain and that’s great for a while but long term we need to feed our bodies and brains with all the essential nutrients we have evolved to require. A diet on fruit alone is not a good one but it’s still better than a ‘SAD’ diet. Eventually though you’ll need more than fruit and you’ll probably realise this on your own when you start developing nutritional deficiencies and symptoms you never had before. I’m not 100% raw. I’m not even 100% vegan and never intend to be but my diet is 100% nutritious and raw vegan food plays a massive part of it. I’d like to discuss other parts of my diet but I have to respect the wishes of the owners of this site and when it boils down to it, anyone switching from a crappy typical western diet to a more nutritious one has my support. Being a frugivore is not a good idea long term but when you’re transitioning to a healthy diet, it’s a great start. Getting back to basics can be what someone needs to retrain themselves to eat right and eliminate bad habits. We just don’t want to be so basic that we turn back into chimps :D

[Revvell]

We all know that we originated in Africa where our hairy, big brained, fruit eating cousins still hang..

Heckuva assumption. So, if we watch those hairy, big brained, fruit eating cousins long enough, we'll see them turn into humans? And what did these hairy, big-brained, fruit-eating cousins evolve from? Sounds as though everything evolved from everything ~ or something.

[snoops]

Are you saying you dispute the theory of evolution Rev?

[Aleesha Sattva]

This thread is re-opened.

in light,
Aleesha
Admin

[Revvell]

Are you saying you dispute the theory of evolution Rev?

Nooooo.... just have no clue! BUT, if there were some hairy, big-brained, fruit eaters near me, I'd sit and watch and see if they turn into humans. ;)

[sport]

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/5477/earliest-evidence-human-fire-use-unearthed
This may have had some effect on our recent mental slowdown.

[Hagbard Celine]

Interesting. I think i saw that a couple days ago

That certainly gives support to the idea that we were far more intelligent in the distant past than most scientists would like to admit. The odd thing is that articles on this discovery go on to basically say fire, and therefore cooked food, fueled evolution- however they only infer this in a very vague sense and never describe how it would possibly do it. We don't even know for sure what they used the fire for, it could merely have been to stay warm.

The biology behind the cooked food/meat proposal makes no sense either, and if you take the theory proposed in this thread on board this evidence does actually fit. It doesn't refute the fact that we find evidence of pre-humans eating other foods, but there was obviously a main group of us that stayed in the forests in connection with the symbiosis, and often groups would fan out into other areas for various reasons. So using this as some sort of proof that cooked food became essential to humans during that time period is pretty inaccurate and 'cherry-picking', not to mention it was found in the far south of africa!

Although i guess theres no point in getting into this on a raw food forum :) lol

[sport]

I think that there is some sense in the theory that cooking speed-ed up evolution because eating cooked meat enabled people to get their calories in more quickly and so left time to do non food things which gave rise to culture. It also meant that they sat around the fire eating and so learned to communicate better.
It does not mean that it speed-ed up the physical aspect of it.

[fastfreedom]

I used to think that humans were "dumb" years ago. It was the type of teachings and general suggestion that I got in my history classes back in high school. Then I recall a brief mention of a "computer" that was created thousands of years ago. But it was basically an intricate geared type clock that tracked the moon star cycles.

Now-a-days I believe that history teachers and just everyone in general really don't really know our past. We make assumptions, IMO. I don't even believe that the equipment used to date artifacts is accurate. How could anyone really know that a machine is accurate at guessing that something was created 1million years ago.

My belief and my gut feeling tells me that we were much much more advanced years ago than we are today. I believe that we had great technologies, but also they were in accordance with needs instead of mere wants of consumption.

I have a hard time believing scientists that wanna write papers saying that cooking food made us "smarter" and more "advanced". There's proof today showing how cooked food makes certain parts of your brain wither. I think it's the pineal gland that I'm recalling. Also reading the works of Dr. Pottenger, "Pottenger's Cats", shows even more evidence of the degradation and break down of the physical after generations of consuming cooked foods. There's also evidence of people having mental disorders that overcome them after switching their lifestyle/eating habits to raw plant foods. For me that's proof enough that our society is going backwards because of the cooked foods that are common around the vast majority of the population.

Just because I can hop onto this mechanical/electronic wonder we call a computer leads many to believe that we are far more technically advanced than any other time in our past. But what about being able to communicate just as effectively without all these electronics and instead using just the power of our brains. To me the psychic functions of ourselves are more advanced than everything that we today would call advanced which requires something physical outside ourselves such as machines and electronics. I believe that everything today that modern society calls advanced is a pale comparasion of what we as humans at our full potential are fully capable of, and the current technologies are a tiny fractional copy of what we can do using our own brains.

I really like this thread because we can begin to speak about opening up our higher functions and I believe that eating a clean diet and releasing all our generational accumulation of toxins is the beginning of the path to get there. I really hope I don't offend anyone by what/how I've said anything, and hope I don't get this thread to become closed again. But if all this gets edited I can see that most still aren't ready for where I believe we are going, and I fully understand it. Though I hope that we can speak of this stuff and perhaps get a little leeway because this excites me to see that more and more people are eating raw foods and experiencing an increase in vibrations because of it. Even if those subtle increase in vibrations begin with an ever increasing notice that "you" are smiling more and more everyday, and you begin to be drawn to upbeat people everywhere you now go. My signature line sums it up nicely.....living in a world of wonder and peace and abundance, because as I'm sure most of you all know.......eating raw foods makes you feel goooood and very alive. ;-)

Good day to everyone.....time to go play in the garden. Woohooo, it's spring. :-)

[Hagbard Celine]

nice post fastfreedom! Have you read the book yet then?

For those still a bit confused, i apologize. Its hard for me to explain all of this without overcomplexifying it!

The basics are really very simple though. Food fuels and build our bodies. The chemicals in fruit alter how the DNA is read, which is a process called transcription, and it is this very process that goes about building our bodies and brains. So if you drastically change the build/fuel materials of the body and brain, the functionality will definitely change as a result.

there is a pictorial explanation at the very bottom of this page which simplifies all this (the article itself is a good read! but it might be a bit dense for some)

symbiotic evolution (http://beyond-belief.org.uk/node/8)

And if anyone would like to help pre-order the authors new books and help this research hit the mainstream help out they're new book project.

http://www.indiegogo.com/Make-up-your-own-mind

If this weren't somewhat true then there would be NO evidence..but alas, there is a ton! Simply bringing this mountain of evidence to mainstream attention would be enough to initiate a dramatic change in how humans relate to each other and the world..Many of our problems would halt overnight if we all found out there is a problem with the development of our brain, which is nobodies fault. And that this is the root cause of all of our collectively insane behavior

[aviatrix79]

I doubt that cooked food played as much of a major role in the evolution of brain size and intelligence as much as fresh raw non-vegan foods did. However this is a raw vegan site that doesn't allow the freedom to discuss anything but raw vegan food, making this thread pretty pointless.

[Hagbard Celine]

I doubt that cooked food played as much of a major role in the evolution of brain size and intelligence as much as fresh raw non-vegan foods did. However this is a raw vegan site that doesn't allow the freedom to discuss anything but raw vegan food, making this thread pretty pointless.

I don't see how that makes the thread pointless. There is tons of evidence for this if you actually look into it before refuting. And neither i, nor the book, ever suggested anywhere that we were 100% frugivores as you kept claiming, and i personally don't eat only fruit..And not all fruitarians have nutritional deficiencies anyway- check out the ones who've been that way for years and have the blood tests to prove it. Anyways, thats off topic. Back on!

Citing orthodox data, as you did in your other post, to refute a new interpretation without comparing the two interpretations side by side, isn't going to get us anywhere. "Our brain size didn’t increase dramatically because we ate fruit. If this was the case we’d be still be chimps living in the jungle, eating fruits and nitpicking off each other’s backs." Would like like to address the biological mechanisms proposed? Because this is basic high school level bio-chemistry and the impact of flooding our systems with this chemistry for millions of years would have is pretty well evidenced and straightforward at its foundation. You don't seem to have gotten but a very vague and general gist of the theory because this quote doesn't really make any sense once you look into it..regardless of the theory it the idea that fruit fueled neural expansion wouldn't be refuted b the existence of other primates still in the jungles, actually the fact that other primates live there eating higher amounts of plants than us and have bigger brains than most mammals supports the case. But i'd love to debate more once you research a bit

[aviatrix79]

lol what makes you assume that I haven't researched this topic extensively? My point was that I cannot debate because I am not allowed to discuss the other side of the argument, hence making this debate useless because there is no debate. This is not a site where we are given the freedom to debate topics such as these as I (or others) cannot point out or link to sites or even discuss foods that aren't raw vegan. Debating these topics in this thread or on this entire site is a complete waste of time. I don't have anything against the rules of this site. Any arguement debating the other side will be wiped out so what's the point? The rules were set up for a reason... to support a book. This site isn't even about health. It's about raising revenue, so not only is this thread useless, this entire site is pretty useless... to me anyway.

[Hagbard Celine]

"lol what makes you assume that I haven't researched this topic extensively?"

you've read the book then? Well for starters you thought i and the book suggested a 100% fruit diet when that clearly wasn't true..but i'll stop there since your right, we can't discuss certain things here.

But anyways, that doesn't mean the entire thread is useless. It should be simple to refute without even getting into restricted topics since if the theory was completely wrong and the functioning of our neural system was fine then there would be absolutely zero evidence for dysfunction, and zero ancient 'accounts' of the condition. Oddly though these accounts, or myths of a progressive fall in the mental health of humanity, exist worldwide..and there is loads of biological, psychological, behavioral, neurological, (etc etc) evidence for the condition. If there was even the slightest chance that this was the case then the only sane thing would be to at least rigorously check into it to make sure.

[Revvell]

This site isn't even about health. It's about raising revenue, so not only is this thread useless, this entire site is pretty useless... to me anyway.

And yet, she stays. Hmmmm.

[Joanna.K]

Reading through the Left in the dark webpage and reviews, synopsis etc - Sounds absolutely fascinating.
Thank you for posting this and bringing it to my attention. Found an interview with Tony Wright on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtgY5JFGIeE Will watch it through shortly.

I reckon ill purchase the book very soon! Excited.

[Hagbard Celine]

let us know what you think joanna :)

i figured most hear would find the book fascinating, especially since they're already eatin raw! Its much more difficult to talk to my meat eating friends about this heheh. But everyone i know who has read the book, meat eater or not, was blown away by it. They're recent project doesn't seem to have gotten funded but hopefully this will hit mainstream attention eventually. Even just bringing this to everyones attention would be a massive step in addressing the madness thats jeopardizing our planet

[Revvell]

Deleted.....

[MysticTree]

There is a book for just about any point of view and people generally choose books to suit what they believe and have that reaffirmed. Are ant of them 100% right? Probably not.

[Arky]

There is a book for just about any point of view and people generally choose books to suit what they believe and have that reaffirmed. Are ant of them 100% right? Probably not.Well said

[fastfreedom]

C'mon yall. Please have some respect for the OP and the original reason for why the thread was started. Please don't get this thread closed again. There's a few of us that are interested in the brain functions and how it is increased by fueling the body with high energy raw foods. If you wanna nit pick at each other please start your own nitpicking thread. ;-) Though I've probably done it too in the past so I can't say a lot, but please.......can we get back on topic. :-)

Hagbard Celine - no I haven't read the book yet. But I just now decided to thumb through it and I'm gonna put all the other books aside for the moment and read it. "I bought a LOT of books. LOL" It looks like a quick read though. I was very happy to see as I was thumbing through it just now that the author has some information that my gut feelings were telling me were in there. :-) I'm very excited to read about the higher functions of the mind. I've experienced some stuff while eating low energy foods years ago before I began on a journey of health, and I can only imagine what it will be like when I begin to practice those things again. My guess is that there will be more power behind those practices. Things such as telekinesis, telepathy, hands on healing, basically higher functions of the mind is the stuff I used to practice. But I didn't do it for very long, so my guess is that with a clean system and high energy foods that I will be able to really take those practices to the next level. :-) Gonna start reading the book too so that I can discuss specific details. ;-)

Though I can say even though I'm not specifically practicing those higher functions I still experience some stuff. Such as intuition. It has become quite strong. In the past as I delved into or experimented with raw foods I would notice that my intuition and synchronicities would increase dramatically, then fade away as I went off raw. Now days I can tell when a family member or friend is having a lot of thoughts about me. One of my friends likes to do this stuff too and he will send me energy to give him a call.....then I do. :-) And he'll say, "I was sending you the energy to call me".....and I'll respond with something like, "yeah I could feel it." Fun stuff.

[Revvell]

Deleted by poster.

[Revvell]

I guess we can't delete our own posts so.... carry on! :)

[Hagbard Celine]

Oh well, lets just let her go before this thread gets closed again. She didn't refute anything being proposed by the theory and essentially relied on her own opinions for points, and then became very argumentative.

I wouldn't bother responding, you've made your point so please move along and stop derailing the thread with your negativity aviatrix. Theres no reason we can't be civil while discussing this.

[Living Food]

Things such as telekinesis, telepathy, hands on healing, basically higher functions of the mind is the stuff I used to practice. But I didn't do it for very long, so my guess is that with a clean system and high energy foods that I will be able to really take those practices to the next level.

Yeah, your diet makes a huge difference; how can you access higher abilities when you're eating devitalized, dead food? Eat the highest energy foods (green sprouts, grasses, weeds), soak in the sun as much as possible, meditate, and you'll develop those abilities to levels you never thought possible.

* Hypocrisy notice: I haven't developed those abilities very highly myself yet (although I'm working on it), so you'll just have to take what I'm saying with a grain of salt :) I do however know people with some of those abilities, and have done a lot of research into the subject.

On the other hand, I've only recently switched over to a really high-energy diet (the foods mentioned above, + seaweed and algae), so I wouldn't expect to have developed those abilities yet. So many raw vegans assume that they're eating high-vibration, living food just because they don't cook it, but don't take into account that it was grown in horribly nutrient-depleted soil, picked unripe and weeks before they bought it, etc. It's definitely better then SAD, but only a small step in the right direction compared to full-blown sproutarianism. Even people who don't want to live on sprouts should still eat loads of grasses, weeds, and green sprouts, because that's where the real nutrition is.

[Hagbard Celine]

well..considering we're chronically deficient in the tens of thousands of chemicals in fruits i think those should be focused on as well. We really didn't incorporate grasses, etc into the diet as much until we left the african tropical forests. If the theories right then we really need to question our conditioned assumptions regarding proper nutrition. Thats not to say that some of those things don't help, of course.

[qwerty988]

This is all really upsetting and inappropriate for this site.

[Hagbard Celine]

Sorry if i'm offending anyone. I don't see why this is upsetting though. Could you elaborate why?

How is discussing the impact of diet on our evolution inappropriate?

[GoodCat]

She was referring to the post above hers that I deleted. If this topic continues to stay "Off Topic", then I will be deleting it. These boards are NOT for using mean and hurtful words and basically beating up on each other.

So, stay of the Topic of this thread or its deleted.

Cathy

[Living Food]

well..considering we're chronically deficient in the tens of thousands of chemicals in fruits i think those should be focused on as well. We really didn't incorporate grasses, etc into the diet as much until we left the african tropical forests. If the theories right then we really need to question our conditioned assumptions regarding proper nutrition. Thats not to say that some of those things don't help, of course.

Actually, we didn't incorporate grasses into our diets until the last few decades (humans can't digest grass without the aid of a juicer). That doesn't mean we shouldn't be eating it, it justs means we finally invented technology that's actually beneficial instead of harmful (aka the juicer). :D

Our ancestors might have thrived on fruit, and maybe it did have something to do with our brains getting larger, but we have evolved to the point where we can no longer rely on fruit for our main source of nourishment (not even taking into account a few of the more modern issues we have to face, which I'll mention soon). If you research more modern primitive cultures - and I have extensively - you will learn that they NEVER* relied on fruit for a main source of nourishment, even if living in tropical areas where fruit was abundant.

Then we have a couple of major issues presented by our modern lifestyle, one of whicih is a masive increase in stress and exposure to environmental toxins. both of these things drastically deplete your body of nutrients, and fruits are nutritional light-weights when compared to the other foods that I mentioned in my post to fastfreedom. The other major issue is the fact that the fruit available today IS NOT the same fruit that our ancestors ate; it's grown in extremely nutrient-depleted soil, it's picked weeks and sometimes months before you eat it, and by the time you do it has very few nutrients, virtually no life-force, and probably little to none of the chemicals you are talking about that make it so important.

On a fundament level, though, I do agree with you...the food we eat is very impottant for our health and even mental development, and society as a whole is eating foods that are causing a lot of harm while ommiting the foods necessary to be healthy.

One more thing - If you can find wild fruit and eat it straight from the plant (exactly what our ancestors were doing), that is a much much different thing then eating the fruit you can buy in a grocery store - which barely qualifies as food in my opinion. It's still not nutritionally balanced enough to be used as a major part of the diet, but it is very nutritious and has many nutrients that you won't find elsewhere. I'm just stressing that there is a MAJOR difference between the fruit you can buy in a grocery store and what you can find in the wild (what our ancestors thrived on). The information you provided on fruit is very interesting and good to know, and I will take advantage of those chemicals in fruit by eating lots of wild fruits and organic heirloom fruits that I grow myself in heavily composted and very fertile soil - but it never should be interpreted as saying that store-bought fruit is good for you.

*there may be one or two exceptions that I haven't heard of, but I highly doubt it

[Hagbard Celine]

She was referring to the post above hers that I deleted. If this topic continues to stay "Off Topic", then I will be deleting it. These boards are NOT for using mean and hurtful words and basically beating up on each other.

So, stay of the Topic of this thread or its deleted.

Cathy

alright, fair enough. looks like its just aviatrix who is pushing it in that direction (although i'm not sure whose post got deleted). anyways, water under the bridge :)

[Hagbard Celine]

Actually, we didn't incorporate grasses into our diets until the last few decades (humans can't digest grass without the aid of a juicer). That doesn't mean we shouldn't be eating it, it justs means we finally invented technology that's actually beneficial instead of harmful (aka the juicer). :D

Our ancestors might have thrived on fruit, and maybe it did have something to do with our brains getting larger, but we have evolved to the point where we can no longer rely on fruit for our main source of nourishment (not even taking into account a few of the more modern issues we have to face, which I'll mention soon). If you research more modern primitive cultures - and I have extensively - you will learn that they NEVER* relied on fruit for a main source of nourishment, even if living in tropical areas where fruit was abundant.

Then we have a couple of major issues presented by our modern lifestyle, one of whicih is a masive increase in stress and exposure to environmental toxins. both of these things drastically deplete your body of nutrients, and fruits are nutritional light-weights when compared to the other foods that I mentioned in my post to fastfreedom. The other major issue is the fact that the fruit available today IS NOT the same fruit that our ancestors ate; it's grown in extremely nutrient-depleted soil, it's picked weeks and sometimes months before you eat it, and by the time you do it has very few nutrients, virtually no life-force, and probably little to none of the chemicals you are talking about that make it so important.

On a fundament level, though, I do agree with you...the food we eat is very impottant for our health and even mental development, and society as a whole is eating foods that are causing a lot of harm while ommiting the foods necessary to be healthy.

One more thing - If you can find wild fruit and eat it straight from the plant (exactly what our ancestors were doing), that is a much much different thing then eating the fruit you can buy in a grocery store - which barely qualifies as food in my opinion. It's still not nutritionally balanced enough to be used as a major part of the diet, but it is very nutritious and has many nutrients that you won't find elsewhere. I'm just stressing that there is a MAJOR difference between the fruit you can buy in a grocery store and what you can find in the wild (what our ancestors thrived on). The information you provided on fruit is very interesting and good to know, and I will take advantage of those chemicals in fruit by eating lots of wild fruits and organic heirloom fruits that I grow myself in heavily composted and very fertile soil - but it never should be interpreted as saying that store-bought fruit is good for you.

*there may be one or two exceptions that I haven't heard of, but I highly doubt it

" If you research more modern primitive cultures - and I have extensively - you will learn that they NEVER* relied on fruit for a main source of nourishment, even if living in tropical areas where fruit was abundant."

there is some studies talked about in the book that mention groups who do live largely (although not entirely) on fruit. And anyways if the theory is correct then the fact that few groups nowadays (or even if it was no groups) rely on fruit as they're main source of nurishment doesn't mean we shouldn't rely on it. A dysfunctional neocortex is running our palate and so from that it follows that we wouldn't necessarily now whats best for us, so its best to go by the data available when making nutritional decisions and not solely the eating habits of primitive peoples (who still would be suffering from relatively the same amount of neural degradation as us).

good post though. I only disagree on a few points. The part on nutrient-depleted soil is true (although not in all cases), and picking early, wild fruit etc, is true.. And yes, wild fruit is best! :) but sadly that's not an option for many (due to financial/geographical reasons mostly). I only buy organic fruit but yes- even that leaves something to be desired. It still has mostly the same chemical profile but they are not as large and don't have such high amounts.

Which brings me to your claim: "by the time you do it has very few nutrients, virtually no life-force, and probably little to none of the chemicals you are talking about that make it so important." Do you have any sources to back this up? Because from what i've seen there is tons of evidence that shows the chemicals i'm talking about (the main point being they alter gene transcription) are still very abundant in these fruits. I mean, they are what give them they're color, and they still have some color! lol

So of course they're still there-but yes they would be there in larger amounts in wild fruits. But this doesn't mean we shouldn't eat them! it just means we need to eat more and find clever ways to meet our nutritional needs..especially since this theory basically shows we are also deficient in the chemicals that would be produced by our endocrine system/pineal gland which would have been functioning at much higher levels in the past; since these things drastically alter they're activity. So fruit is just one part of rebuilding/restoring the right hemispheric functions that we lost. It does a great job rebuilding/refueling the system but supplementing with other neurotransmitters and things of this sort that our brains would have been producing in higher amounts would be necessary (like melatonin, MAOI, etc)..Fruit-based diets are a part of it but that alone also doesn't really remove the left hemispheres dominance; which is a big obstacle in accessing the right.

[Aleesha Sattva]

Since much of this thread has been deleted... I will be closing it now.

in light,
Aleesha
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