Help with Vaccination Dilemna

[timsmolens]

Hi,

I am studying to be a nurse and just entering the program now. I have been informed that I am required to take a bunch of vaccinations that I don't want. I have checked into it and, apparently, I have no legal right to a waiver since we will be doing Clinicals at hospitals that require them. Financially I can't afford to change career paths as my wife and children are depending on me and I have already put in 2 years of prerequisites.

Right now I am juice fasting and have been for 7 days...... Here are my questions...

1. Should I keep fasting when I start the shots or break it for some reason?
2. Can fasting help get the toxins in the vaccine out of my body?
3. Are there any foods or vitamins to take before getting a vaccine that can somehow help?

Any advice or suggestions are much appreciated on this problem that has me quite distraught. Thank you so much for your time.

Tim

[MysticTree]

you'll be fine, eat whatever you are eating but you will have to continue to have these vaccinations throughout your career. Now would be the time to really do some research and see if there is a possibility of moving sideways in your career or you will be setting yourself up for some really troubling problems in the future. One of those may be that your job will mean you HAVE to be pro vaccine when talking with patients. Can you do that? Is it worth going into a career that puts you in that position where you will probably be fired if you share your vaccination views with your patients.

Good luck.

[Traceyraw]

I can't give you any advice on cleansing the vaccines but I think HEP B is one you want. I work in the healthcare field and seen a few of the older workers die from Hep B and Hep C. It is an aweful way to die they didn't have the vaccines available to them. You sound very compasionate Your going to make a wonderful nurse.

[speltrong]

I agree that you might wish to reconsider your career path.

I know there are plenty of people who are anti-vaccine, and normally I would just shuffle past a post like this without adding my two cents. But I have to say, if one of my degreed medical professionals ever indicated to me that they were against vaccination as a general rule, I would be outraged. Vaccines have done an incredible amount to help the welfare of humanity.

It is also important to remember, not being vaccinated only works if everyone else around you IS vaccinated. So if you plan to work in a profession where you are likely to have close contact with germs and bodily fluid of others (others who may well have opted not to be vaccinated themselves), being vaccinated may become very important to your own personal health.

I'm not telling you what to think or believe, but I do agree that this is likely to cause you a lot of grief down the road if you truly believe that vaccines are dangerous. I'm sure there are other career paths that your prereqs would apply to.

[LetsGetRaw]

Being around that amount of sick people, you should take the vaccine. If you dont want to you should change your career. By not getting vaccinated you put your family at risk not to mention a lot of future clients and their potential lawsuits. I would not go to a doctor if they were not taking these precautions. My cousin had her legs and hands cut off due to meningitis caught from a fellow college student.(my aunt never got her vaccinated) So I am a bit biased and passionate on this topic..

[Traceyraw]

When you finish school there are more and more opportunities for natural health care. I work on a big hospital and this just started a holistic program since thats what the people want. They want natural alternitives. Don't give up. Finish your clinicals we need more people like you in healthcare. Your going to be great.

[gin3]

Get vaccinated and keep eating however you want. I work in healthcare and the amount of people I am exposed to I could not imagine not having my vaccinations. In school it does seem like lots of vaccination but once you are working you don't get many more. I would not want to bring something home to the family. Good luck in school.

[fastfreedom]

For some reason I recall learning about detoxing from vaccines using bentonite clay, chelation therapy, and many other stuff too. So I did a quick search and here's what I pulled up real quick. You'll have to do some more digging cus it's been a while since I learned this stuff.

http://www.healthiertalk.com/natural-vaccine-detox-0554
http://www.facebook.com/vaccineinfo?v=app_4949752878 - number 15 talks about vaccination detox specifically.

Also this is a great place of information. I read from this site from time to time and learn lots of stuff here. http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/detox.htm - This page has lots of info on detoxing.

[RawDad]

I'd say if you have studied the vaccines you are considering to be injected with and found them safe then I wouldn't worry about it. I wasn't given a choice about it when I went to the doctor as a child, and I can't say if I'm better or worse off.

Might your prerequisites qualify you for other good health fields?

[Raw Angel Mom]

They are many health centre that needs nurses, you should search in those area

Do you have human right in your country? YOu could look into a waver for religious purpose, this is what i did for my child at school for her to be exempt.

Consult with a lawyer, it might be worth the investment only to point you in the right direction. Perhaps one hour consultation. Some lawyer offer a free half hour consultation.

I wish you all the best.

[climbing]

I would never take a vaccination and wouldn't pursue a career that required me to do so, but that's just me.

[SharonC]

http://www.naturalnews.com/033648_healthcare_workers_vaccines.html

"Fortunately for now, the majority of hospitals appear to recognize a Title VII right for their employees to refuse vaccines for religious reasons, and most of my healthcare worker clients have been successful in refusing vaccines and keeping their jobs without facing the decision of whether or not to sue. As long as you avoid the legal pitfalls and your employer has a religious exemption policy, there's a good chance of success.

If your employer requires vaccines you wish to avoid, the first step is to find out what your employer's exemption policy is. It's best not to talk about your religion or religious beliefs before finding out what the policy is and what beliefs do and don't qualify, legally, for religious exemptions. Unfortunately, this is an arena where a common sense approach can cost you the exemption; what many people think should qualify as a religious objection often doesn't. For example, copied belief statements can be rejected as insincere, so copying from anti-vaccine websites is risky. These websites mean well, and I mean no disrespect, but they don't understand the law. People have needlessly lost exemption rights by relying on anti-vaccine websites in the exercise of vaccine religious exemptions.[6]

If your employer has an overly strict policy -- e.g., requires membership in an organized religion or support from a religious leader -- they are, arguably, overstepping their legal boundaries. You may need an attorney to explain your rights to your employer, to cite the legal precedent that supports your right without having to meet either of these requirements. If they have a lenient policy and ask only for a statement of your beliefs, that's better, but you should still consider consulting an attorney to avoid the legal pitfalls, as this is one arena where your beliefs are likely to be closely scrutinized for flaws that would allow them to reject you.

Disturbingly, some hospitals have even rejected a medical doctor's recommendation that an employee not be vaccinated. The best long-term solution, then, may be for all concerned to become legislatively active. We need to educate our representatives about the true risks and failings of vaccines and the many better and safer means of addressing infectious disease concerns. We need new laws that allow informed choice, require transparency for all conflicts of interest, and that require prosecution of corruption. I'm happy to help activists anywhere in the U.S. with any pro-informed-choice vaccine legislative initiatives and with legal arguments against limitations on vaccine exemptions and adding more vaccine mandates. For a list of some of the legislative projects I've worked on so far, please see Vaccine Choice: Legislative Projects I'm also available to assist individuals with understanding and exercising their exemption rights wherever vaccines mandates are concerned in the U.S."


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/033648_healthcare_workers_vaccines.html#ixzz1j4h7i mC0

[climbing]

Great article Sharon, thank you.

[speltrong]

Or, alternatively, just don't go into a profession that upholds standards that you disagree with. Why would you want to set yourself up to be fighting against the institution that employs you for the next 20 or 30 years? It would be better to choose a different career path while you still can.. I certainly don't want any of my medical practitioners to be anti-vaccination!

[Traceyraw]

Or, alternatively, just don't go into a profession that upholds standards that you disagree with. Why would you want to set yourself up to be fighting against the institution that employs you for the next 20 or 30 years? It would be better to choose a different career path while you still can.. I certainly don't want any of my medical practitioners to be anti-vaccination!

I agree. I don't get the flu vaccine but one of my employers makes us wear a mask while we work to protect the patients. Even if you have a rock strong immune system you can still carry and spread to others. Young children, elderly, and immune compromised are especially at risk. These are the people you are treating. These are your patients. You wouldn't want that on your consious if you carried and gave something to them. Even if your O.K it could kill them.

[GreginND]

I agree. I don't get the flu vaccine but one of my employers makes us wear a mask while we work to protect the patients. Even if you have a rock strong immune system you can still carry and spread to others. Young children, elderly, and immune compromised are especially at risk. These are the people you are treating. These are your patients. You wouldn't want that on your consious if you carried and gave something to them. Even if your O.K it could kill them.

Like! (Thumbs Up)

[Amarynth]

I agree. I don't get the flu vaccine but one of my employers makes us wear a mask while we work to protect the patients. Even if you have a rock strong immune system you can still carry and spread to others. Young children, elderly, and immune compromised are especially at risk. These are the people you are treating. These are your patients. You wouldn't want that on your consious if you carried and gave something to them. Even if your O.K it could kill them.

I totally agree. I'm also a nursing student (doing my anatomy and physiology now). I too, didn't have a choice and had all the required vaccines as a child; but even if I wasn't vaccinated then and had a choice now...I would opt for the vaccines. Both to protect myself as well my future patients. Good luck in your clinicals! :D

[climbing]

Or, alternatively, just don't go into a profession that upholds standards that you disagree with. Why would you want to set yourself up to be fighting against the institution that employs you for the next 20 or 30 years? It would be better to choose a different career path while you still can.. I certainly don't want any of my medical practitioners to be anti-vaccination!

Well, I think some people want to go into the medical industry to change it from the inside out, you know? If a person is anti vaccination it makes sense that they might want to become a nurse who can inform people on the dangers of vaccination or alternative options, etc.

[climbing]

I'm just curious, do you guys not believe, at all, in the dangers of vaccines?

Not attacking your views or anything but just wondering. I'm a little surprised to see such pro-vaccine views on a raw forum, I'd have thought most people would be anti vax but I guess all sorts of people go raw.

[Traceyraw]

I agree with some vaccines. I do not get the flu shot. If the disease is worse than the vaccine than I say yes get it. Hepatitis is a horrible death rather have the vaccine. I had no problems with it. Polio Yes I like being able to walk. I got my kids some but not all of the vaccines. I spaced them out not all at once. MMR yes I got it Im around infants wouldn't want to kill them either by passing something onto them. I believe in natural living but I also believe in protecting life. If a simple vaccine will keep people from death I say go for it. We are all sorts of people. Yes people here are making positive changes in there life we are here to learn and grow.The past is the past but our future will be better.

[speltrong]

I am a strong believer in vaccines, and I really do think that everyone should get them just as a matter of public safety. I am always a bit flummoxed that so many people could actually be anti-vaccine! Vaccines have done an amazing amount to keep a large number of people healthier, and I think that anyone who is against them must be severely misinformed about the cost-benefit of having them.

Now there are all sorts of people opting out of having their kids vaccinated, and suddenly sicknesses that haven't been a problem for years are having a resurgence (whooping cough is now a problem in California). Personally, I stand in awe of the scientists and medical professionals who developed vaccines... I mean, thanks to vaccines, Smallpox was eliminated! I think it is irresponsible to the rest of society to not be vaccinated.. when you do that, you're basically depending on all the rest of us having been vaccinated so that you won't get sick. Meanwhile, you could be spreading around all sorts of nasty things to other people (who perhaps also have not been vaccinated), and before you know it, there's a resurgence of a sickness that should have been a distant memory.

So yes, I got all my vaccinations as a child, and I've been vaccinated for Hepatitis along with a slew of other things because of all the less developed places we travel. I also get my flu vaccine every single year.

Being healthy and open minded about what you eat and how you live does not mean that you have to ignore science. I prefer to use science to support my healthy lifestyle.

I read a book recently called "A Viral Storm". I would encourage anyone who is anti vaccine to read this book. It's a great description of viruses and how they work and also talks about vaccines.

I know that people will believe what they want, and there's often no changing anyone's opinions. But when someone is planning to work in the medical industry as a nurse, where they will be in constant contact with sick people, I think it's flat out wrong to not be vaccinated. In that case, you could very well end up killing the people you're responsible for healing.

[Traceyraw]

II know that people will believe what they want, and there's often no changing anyone's opinions. But when someone is planning to work in the medical industry as a nurse, where they will be in constant contact with sick people, I think it's flat out wrong to not be vaccinated. In that case, you could very well end up killing the people you're responsible for healing.

I agree with you but I guess we are the all sorts LOL.

[climbing]

Yeah, I feel the opposite as you guys but I still respect your opinion. I think vaxes should be available to those who want them but never, ever, ever should be forced on people. Of course, in this situation they aren't being forced--no one has to go into any industry they don't want to. None of my jobs have ever required vaccinations. I've never been vaccinated for anything, so it's certainly possible to live a life without them if you want.

[Amarynth]

Traceyraw and Speltrong...I could not have put it better myself. As they stated, that's pretty much how I feel but I also respect the views of other ideals. :D

[SharonC]

Climbing, my concern is that it will not stop with hospital workers - this is just the beginning. If this continues to progress the way it has in our lifetime, it will affect all of us at some point (and not just vaccinations). That is how tyranny works - in the name of the greater good of course.

For those interested, this vaccine introduction is a good explanation of the big picture... http://www.consumercide.com/vaccinepol.html

[speltrong]

"The risk is not just to people who have opted out of vaccination. Of the 156 measles victims in the U.S. as of June, nearly 1 in 5 of them had been vaccinated but the vaccine didn't work, or had weakened. Infants too young to be vaccinated are getting sick, and some of them are dying, when exposed to diseases like whooping cough in communities where "herd immunity" has fallen too low to keep the spread of the disease in check. Unvaccinated people cost the health care system millions of dollars, and local and state government millions more, as they try to chase down each outbreak and bring it under control. A recent economic analysis found that "...vaccination of each U.S. birth cohort with the current childhood immunization schedule prevents approximately 42,000 deaths and 20 million cases of disease, with net savings of nearly $14 billion in direct costs and $69 billion in total societal costs."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-ropeik/vaccines-autism-fear-public-health_b_901177.html

[snoops]

and the drug companies are making trillions. There are some disease where vaccinations are a good thing but in order to increase profits they are coming up with vaccinations for everything. A healthy person does not need a vaccination against the flu. But you are scared and pressured into taking it. For the flu I would rather trust my good immune system than put poisons into my body that may or may not even work. Faith that the drug companies are doing what is the best thing for you is foolish. Each to his own, but don't force me to vaccinate against the flu.

[speltrong]

Umm, we're not talking about just the flu vaccine here.. we're talking about vaccines in general.

[climbing]

Climbing, my concern is that it will not stop with hospital workers - this is just the beginning. If this continues to progress the way it has in our lifetime, it will affect all of us at some point (and not just vaccinations). That is how tyranny works - in the name of the greater good of course.

For those interested, this vaccine introduction is a good explanation of the big picture... http://www.consumercide.com/vaccinepol.html

I agree, the possibilities are terrifying.

[MysticTree]

I agree, the possibilities are terrifying.

That is the main drawback to possibilities ... if you allow yourself to look at them negatively. Generally I feel it is better to look at the positives when it come to possibilities. Terror is undoubtedly bad for your health.

[timsmolens]

Thanks for all your responses! I am very surprised to find so many pro-vaccine opinions on this board. Let me give my 2 cents.

1. even my dad who is an ER doctor says that the majority of vaccinations are totally unnecessary.

2. It is amazing to me that people don't see the profit motive at work. Big Pharma is making trillions off convincing us to protect against things like Chicken Pox, flu, etc. There can never be an ethical system where profit motive and health care are conflated.

3. There is no excuse for using some of the ingredients they do in their shots such as Aluminum, other heavy metals, aborted fetuses etc. If you trust a company that is willing to put aluminum in your body that is not a wise decision.

4. We have no options as far as which company makes our vaccine. I would want a choice like I do with my food products. If I don't like the way one company makes a product I will choose another. i would pay more for a shot that didn't have the aforementioned questionable ingredients.

5. i am not disputing the concept of vaccines, for I have studied the history of microbiology. The fact that anyone would blindly trust Big Pharma with such an important matter is astounding to me.

6. Scour the CDC's website and you will find the risk of a significant vaccine injury to be 1/1750. Cross reference that to the number of people that die per year of any of these particular diseases and you will find it is 1/millions.

[snoops]

good luck with your choice:) I agree with one of the other posters that perhaps you shoudl consider an alternative path because in the mainstream health care field you will not be able to tell people your views on vaccines.

[michigan roman]

1/1750 vs 1/1,000,000 , wow that is ridiculous . yes the trust is gone

[speltrong]

those ratios couldn't have anything to do with the fact that most have been vaccinated and massive amounts of people don't die of those diseases anymore?

[MysticTree]

1/1750 vs 1/1,000,000

So, that first figure refers to vaccinated people and the second figure refers to unvaccinated people?

If the second figure refers to both vaccinated and unvaccinated people then it shows the worth of vaccinations not the other way about but also we have to take into account that modern, western medicine does have ways of keeping people alive that we didn't have before so the figures should also include disabilities caused by both vaccines and the diseases that we vaccinate against.

But the figures should relate to vacinated groups on the on hand and unvaccinated groups on the other.

[climbing]

I have a question: To you guys who say that being an unvaccinated nurse puts patients at risk...

This doesn't make sense to me. I'm just trying to understand your view. IF you believe that vaccines do as they say and prevent disease, then who is at risk? If all the patients have been vaccinated, and the nurse hasn't been, and he/she's carrying the flu virus, then wouldn't she only be able to spread it to people like me who've chosen not to be vaccinated?

I just don't get it. If you think vaccines work, then what's the problem?

[Traceyraw]

IF a person in immuno-compramised the immune system will not work properly. These are infats, elderly, Chemo patients and others in various disease states. So if the immune system is compramised that means its not working properly. Means you can get many diseases/viruses that your immune system would normally fight off. Maybe they did not have a booster shot which some vaccines require.

Let me give you a story. Homeschool mom took her kids to the park none of which were vaccinted. They happened to have or getting over Rubellabut they were still contagious. A mother was there with her 2 month old son and 3 year old daughter. The infant died from the disease. Never had a chance to get the vaccine. I wouldn't want that on my concience.

[MysticTree]

IF a person in immuno-compramised the immune system will not work properly. These are infats, elderly, Chemo patients and others in various disease states. So if the immune system is compramised that means its not working properly. Means you can get many diseases/viruses that your immune system would normally fight off. Maybe they did not have a booster shot which some vaccines require.

Let me give you a story. Homeschool mom took her kids to the park none of which were vaccinted. They happened to have or getting over Rubellabut they were still contagious. A mother was there with her 2 month old son and 3 year old daughter. The infant died from the disease. Never had a chance to get the vaccine. I wouldn't want that on my concience.

I don't think that story quite holds water. German measles (rubella) is generally contagious before and during the rash as I understand it and the rash is very short lived.

Most of the problems with rubella happen in the uterus - deafness and brain damage, before a child is even born. Regular measles will cause death in a small but significant number of cases.

There is an element of reasoning in what you say but the story has become muddled I think.

[SharonC]

This topic has so many issues. A few of the bigger picture issues are what is health (does it have anything to do with vaccines), what helps to get through illness (with proper care and sanitation) - most have lost this knowledge in the age of relying on modern medicine. There is no substitution for life long NATURAL immunity (which makes us stronger/healthier) - there are consequences when attempting to outsmart life's natural laws - there are no guarantees - there will always be sickness and death in this world.

The herd THEORY has recently been used when all other pressure techniques have failed and is being heavily marketed to adults.

Forced Vaccinations, Government, and the Public Interest By Dr. Russell Blaylock, M.D. December 03, 2009

"Those who are observant have noticed a dangerous trend in the United States, as well as worldwide, and that is the resorting of various governments at different levels to mandating forced vaccination upon the public at large.... All of such policies strongly resemble those policies found in National Socialist empires, Stalinist countries, or Communist China.

When public-health officers are asked for the legal justification for such draconian measures as forcing people to accept vaccines that they deem either a clear and present danger to themselves and their loved ones or have had personal experience with serious adverse reactions to such vaccines, they usually resort to the need to protect the public.

One quickly concludes that if the vaccines are as effective as being touted by the public-health officials, then why should one fear the unvaccinated? Obviously the vaccinated would have at least 95% protection. This question puts them in a very difficult position. Their usual response is that a “small” percentage of the vaccinated will not have sufficient protection and would still be at risk. Now, if they admit what the literature shows, that vaccine failure rates are much higher than the 5% they claim, they must face the next obvious question – then why should anyone take the vaccine if there is a significant chance it will not protect?

When pressed further, they then resort to their favorite justification, the Holy Grail of the vaccine proponents – herd immunity. This concept is based upon the idea that 95% (and some now say 100%) of the population must be vaccinated to prevent an epidemic. The percentages needing vaccination grows progressively. I pondered this question for some time before the answer hit me. Herd immunity is mostly a myth and applies only to natural immunity – that is, contracting the infection itself.

Is Herd Immunity Real? In the original description of herd immunity, the protection to the population at large occurred only if people contracted the infections naturally. The reason for this is that naturally-acquired immunity lasts for a lifetime. The vaccine proponents quickly latched onto this concept and applied it to vaccine-induced immunity. But, there was one major problem – vaccine-induced immunity lasted for only a relatively short period, from 2 to 10 years at most, and then this applies only to humoral immunity. This is why they began, silently, to suggest boosters for most vaccines, even the common childhood infections such as chickenpox, measles, mumps, and rubella.

Then they discovered an even greater problem, the boosters were lasting for only 2 years or less. This is why we are now seeing mandates that youth entering colleges have multiple vaccines, even those which they insisted gave lifelong immunity, such as the MMR. The same is being suggested for full-grown adults. Ironically, no one in the media or medical field is asking what is going on. They just accept that it must be done.

That vaccine-induced herd immunity is mostly myth can be proven quite simply. When I was in medical school, we were taught that all of the childhood vaccines lasted a lifetime. This thinking existed for over 70 years. It was not until relatively recently that it was discovered that most of these vaccines lost their effectiveness 2 to 10 years after being given. What this means is that at least half the population, that is the baby boomers, have had no vaccine-induced immunity against any of these diseases for which they had been vaccinated very early in life. In essence, at least 50% or more of the population was unprotected for decades.

If we listen to present-day wisdom, we are all at risk of resurgent massive epidemics should the vaccination rate fall below 95%. Yet, we have all lived for at least 30 to 40 years with 50% or less of the population having vaccine protection. That is, herd immunity has not existed in this country for many decades and no resurgent epidemics have occurred. Vaccine-induced herd immunity is a lie used to frighten doctors, public-health officials, other medical personnel, and the public into accepting vaccinations.

When we examine the scientific literature, we find that for many of the vaccines protective immunity was 30 to 40%, meaning that 70% to 60% of the public has been without vaccine protection. Again, this would mean that with a 30% to 40% vaccine-effectiveness rate combined with the fact that most people lost their immune protection within 2 to 10 year of being vaccinated, most of us were without the magical 95% number needed for herd immunity. This is why vaccine defenders insist the vaccines have 95% effectiveness rates.

Without the mantra of herd immunity, these public-health officials would not be able to justify forced mass vaccinations. I usually give the physicians who question my statement that herd immunity is a myth a simple example. When I was a medical student almost 40 years ago, it was taught that the tetanus vaccine would last a lifetime. Then 30 years after it had been mandated, we discovered that its protection lasted no more than 10 years. Then, I ask my doubting physician if he or she has ever seen a case of tetanus? Most have not. I then tell them to look at the yearly data on tetanus infections – one sees no rise in tetanus cases. The same can be said for measles, mumps, and other childhood infections. It was, and still is, all a myth.

The entire case for forced mass vaccination rest upon this myth and it is important that we demonstrate the falsity of this idea. Neil Z. Miller, in his latest book The Vaccine Information Manual, provides compelling evidence that herd immunity is a myth."

The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions...As the Public Awakens, the Collectivist Becomes Desperate - Read more http://www.thenhf.com/article.php?id=1975

[speltrong]

Please everyone, even if you don't want to study microbiology, read up on how viruses and vaccines work. A Viral Storm is an excellent book written so that the average person can understand quite easily how this all works.

[timsmolens]

Dr. Russell Blaylock, a neurosurgeon, has infinitely more credibility with this issue than anyone on this board. It's funny that the people that are for vaccinations can only spout out the propaganda that they use to beguile us into taking the shots in the first place.

Of course all the good points I brought up earlier were ignored. ask yourself this....

IS THERE ANY EXCUSE WHATSOEVER FOR PUTTING ALUMINUM INTO THE HUMAN BODY?

It is too bad that big pharma and out government have taken this thing into the conspiratorial realm but they are just making way too much money off sick people with compromised immune systems. Heavy Metals weaken the immune system... and that's not the only thing that is.... look up sometime.... What are those?

[speltrong]

Not all of your points were ignored. It was pointed out that the ratios you used appear to be completely meaningless.

[speltrong]

Regarding your concern about aluminum; it is already present in our food, water and soil. I am very much NOT concerned about the minute amount included in vaccines (which is included, by the way, to improve the immune response, so I am sure that vaccination researchers would disagree with you about it being an unneccessary component).

And if you find our feedback disagreeable, and we are arguably a more open-minded group than the general public would be, just imagine what you will face if you decide to pursue this profession.

[MysticTree]

A few of the bigger picture issues are what is health (does it have anything to do with vaccines), what helps to get through illness (with proper care and sanitation) - most have lost this knowledge in the age of relying on modern medicine. There is no substitution for life long NATURAL immunity (which makes us stronger/healthier)

This is indeed a very valid point. Good nutrition for example is key in a healthy immune system and I understand that vitamin A in particular plays an important role in preventing contraction of measles; certainly improved nutrition brought measle rates right down in pre-vaccination days. Vitamin A also implicated in preventing pre-eclampsia but of course pregnant women are told to avoid vitamin A like the plague!

Another thing that bugs me to hell is the whole "sanitise & anti-bacterial" brigade. We need exposure to these pathogens in order to have natural immunity.

The planet could do with a pandemic that wipes out 50-60% of the world population. Morally, we should be looking at living higher quality lives NOT longer, low quality lives!

[speltrong]

Yes, I agree.. I avoid most all products that claim to be antibacterial.

My feeling is that we all need to live as smartly as we can, and to me that means being vaccinated, utilizing modern medical care, and also doing our best to live naturally and feel as good as we can through the journey of life. And living naturally does not mean that one has to ignore science.

I agree about not wanting to live forever.. I can't even tolerate the thought of that. I would just like to live a happy healthy life and be well for the most part of it (instead of suffering horribly for the latter part as it seems so many do).

I think it's also important to not do anything that could directly harm the people you come into contact with. That's why I think if people do not want to be vaccinated (or their kids to), then they should really not be allowed to send their kids to public schools, go to parks, go to highly populated areas, etc. If you don't want to do what is best for society, then don't be a part of society.

[climbing]

Some of us disagree about what's best for society. Do you guys not get that?

This thread is officially disgusting me. I want to like you guys so I better stop reading because this was flat out offensive:



I think it's also important to not do anything that could directly harm the people you come into contact with. That's why I think if people do not want to be vaccinated (or their kids to), then they should really not be allowed to send their kids to public schools, go to parks, go to highly populated areas, etc. If you don't want to do what is best for society, then don't be a part of society.

Society is made up of all of us, not just people who feel the way you do. Other people with different beliefs have every right to believe what we believe and still be a part of this world. Luckily people like you don't make the rules or I think I'd shoot my brains out just to escape this planet.

Here is a page with a lot of good anti vaccine info for those who care to open their minds:

http://www.vaclib.org/links/vaxlinks.htm

[MysticTree]

I think it's also important to not do anything that could directly harm the people you come into contact with. That's why I think if people do not want to be vaccinated (or their kids to), then they should really not be allowed to send their kids to public schools, go to parks, go to highly populated areas, etc. If you don't want to do what is best for society, then don't be a part of society.

Most times I agree with you but not to this extent.

[speltrong]

That's ok, we don't always have to agree. :-) I didn't used to be so strong willed about this particular topic, but then I read a whole bunch of books about microbiology. It gave me a much different perspective about all of this.

[speltrong]

At any rate, it's been headed this way for a while, but I'm going to be deleting my membership on this forum today. I shall leave you all in peace. :-) I sincerely wish you all well & hope the best for you.

[MysticTree]

That's ok, we don't always have to agree. :-) I didn't used to be so strong willed about this particular topic, but then I read a whole bunch of books about microbiology. It gave me a much different perspective about all of this.

I have just the book for you when you come over later in the year. If it doesn't cripple your baggage allowance you must take it home with you. Will message you.

Sorry to hear you are leaving.

[GoNeRaWLiNz]

it would seem that you have already made your point about vaccines. if you feel this way about them then you should change careers. u have the upper hand by being healthy and a raw foodist. vaccines are a part of life accept it and move on with your career or say no and do something else. i think speltrong made very valid points.