Seriously considering removing most extreme gullible people from my life, should I?

[raweater]

There are some in my family that are gullible and/or in denial to absolutely extreme levels, so much so that I'm seriously thinking that if they don't wake up within a year I want to delete them from my life. For example, never talk to them again (unless they ever wake up), never seeing them again at their birthdays, holidays, etc. and forget they ever existed.

Let me explain just how extremely gullible and/or in denial they are. For example my story started when I took a drug that gave me Crohn's disease, and then the drug for Crohn's disease causes cancer, but I wasn't going to be had by such deadly quackery a 2nd time, especially since the cancer caused by the drug for Crohn's disease has a 100% fatality rate. That's when I found diet changes can cure the Crohn's disease and it has for 6 years now.

There's so much evidence of the drug that gave me Crohn's disease that there are now class action lawsuits which I'm now part of and the drug company lost in 100% of cases so far.

I informed my family of what I found (I actually did more than that but I'm not allowed to say on these forums apparently) and they think it's the most ridiculous thing they ever heard, even as all the science is on my side and they have no proof to support what they believe in regarding health. This was several years ago and the class action lawsuit against the drug I took hadn't yet started AFAIK.

The biggest issue is that 2 in my family had the tragic misfortune to have friends that became doctors, so of course now they blindly trust all of modern medicine's deadly quackery because it's coming from a friend they trust. As I don't need to tell you, the two who have doctor friends are the most diseased people in my family, with a long list of prescription drugs and diseases.

One of the drugs one of them is taking is Lipitor, there are now over 900 studies proving this drug has deadly side effects and shortens lifespan in almost anyone foolish enough to take it. The only study to ever show benefits to Lipitor is the drug company's own study, and even that one shows only a 1.1% reduction in heart attacks, but even worst, their own study proved that after taking it for 10 years you will die sooner by taking it than taking nothing at all.

When I first told him about there where perhaps "only" 100 studies proving my point, now that there are over 900 I want to bring the subject up again, because I have 900 unbiased scientific studies proving my point on jjust this issue, while the best his irresponsible quack doctor friend could do is show the drug company's own study which is obviously biased since 900 unbiased studies all come to the opposite result.

I think when I'll show these new facts might be when I decide if I delete them from my life or not, because to believe it's the company's own study that's telling the truth when 900 unbiased independent studies all come to the opposite result is either being in extreme denial or the most gullible person on earth.

What frustrates me is that rather than learn from my mistake and avoid repeating it, they firmly insist on repeating it as they figuratively run full speed to destroy their health and shorten their lives. The worst part is that they're telling the pharmaceutical companies that they approve of the extreme pain and suffering they caused me, and they're saying "sure, give me fatal diseases too!" and fully supporting this sort of crime.

I simply can't take spending holidays with people that support such atrocious crimes that were committed against me and against themselves. If the pain and suffering I lived through had been caused by a knife, they'd want them jailed, but because they did it to me with drugs they not only not believe the drug caused it, but think it's absolutely fine that they keep doing that to others.

I have had it with spending holidays with such gullible, irresponsible people that support such crimes, if after showing them one last bunch of undeniable data, if they stay in denial, I think I'll have no choice but to permanently delete them from my lives. But on the other hand if I do that it removes from me any hope of waking them up in the future, but I think if all the new scientific evidence supporting my point (and always zero science supporting their cult like beliefs) can't wake them up, they're a lost cause and deserve what's coming for them. I also think it's best to delete them from my life because if I keep seeing them until modern medicine has murdered them, I don't know how I'd react and think it's best that I forget about them and simply not know when they get killed for profit.

Please give me your opinions on this matter, I haven't decided anything yet, but if they keep staying in denial with undeniable proof, I think it's best for me to delete them from my life.

Thank you

[MysticTree]

If you'll feel better/happier without them then go ahead. There are worse things to be than gullible though. I'm not sure why them having a shorter lifespan is something to hate them for. If they allow you to live your "medical" life and you allow them to lead theirs then if all else is good between you then why cut them out? Add health discussions to the list of off-topic discussions (like religion and politics) and agree not to discuss.

I don't talk to many of my family and haven't seen some of them for years and years and years - they've not really done anything dreadful it's just that we don't have anything except genes in common.

Only you can make the decision. Good luck.

[sport]

They do not have the right to dictate what you believe but neither do you have the right to dictate what they believe. You have to let people live their own life. You are only responsible for yours. Be happy that you have found the truth. Live and let live.

[Traceyraw]

That's medicine a pill for everything. I truly believe most pills cause more harm than good. I would just let them know ahead this is a holiday I want to enjoy myself and everybodies company. We will not discuss this issue. I had to do that with my family. Now we do not talk about food. I don't say anything about there dead cows they don't make fun of my tofu. Now we get along just fine.

Family is family but friends you can choose who to unfriend. Look for people with your own beliefs then life is a lot easier. Funny I work in a big place but the 3 vegans out of 1500 found each other.

I believe raw diet and juicing can heal you so well. Don't give up. Everyday juice for your healing. Myfriend had stage 2 colon cancer she had green smoothies everyday with chemo 2 months later no trace. I believe it was the smoothies. Dr.s believe it was the chemo. But I know nature heals.

[garden granny]

My belief towards friends, family, etc. is now as it states in Romans 14, 1-4. That changed my views.

[Revvell]

I have what I call "niche" friends. We get together to enjoy whatever it is. We don't talk about things we don't agree on and just enjoy what we do. If that works for you then play where it's fun. If not, then don't.

For me, just because we have the same genes (in my "family" we don't, having been adopted) or, just because someone labels themselves "family" is no reason for me to be with people I don't enjoy. Life is too short BUT, I've never (that I recall) ever made a statement such as "forgetting they ever existed".... why? You'll remember cuz they do. Whether you choose to spend time with them or not... up to you!

Here's how I feel ~ "Leave others to their otherness and take care of yourself." You are the only one who can define what that means to you.

[Mary Kay]

I agree with Vegan Warrior and Revvell ---just because you disagree on what meds to take/what foods to eat this does not make them "the enemy" nor does it make them
]"not worty of your attention." Agree to disagree and enjoy their company.

But I also understand your frustration. For you this is close to a "religion." Now you could never marry someone with such disparate beliefs, but to visit with them over the holidays, and not get upset with them for their (ignorant/wrong) beliefs would be the correct way to behave IMO. Some of these relatives brought you into this world, you know.

Please don't be so angry with them. Don't lecture them. Just allow your shining health to be their example.

Best of luck,

Mary Kay

[Daisyhead]

I think you see their ignorance as betrayal. That is what is causing your anger. They, however, do not see it the same way. They believe in medicine because they have been programmed to think this way by a society obsessed with quick and easy fixes. They would rather use medication to fix a problem that could be fixed by going raw.

You once believed in the medicine, but you learned through tragedy. I also have believed in the medicine, but am learning to use raw and living food as my medicine.

Most people need to learn from their own mistakes/tragedy when it would be beneficial to learn from other's. Don't see them as enemies. See them as ignorant little babies who don't know any better and are not ready to listen. Unless they are denigrating you at every turn, leave them be to make their own mistakes. Focus on the positive people in your life. Cutting them out at holidays also cuts out all the other people there. People you love and want to celebrate with.

My heart aches for your situation. How horrible for you and the ones who love you!! I hope the class action lawsuit brings closure for you and prevents this drug from hurting others. You are a courageous man. Let go of the anger, eat your raw living food diet and see what happens. Do not go gentle into that good night!!! Never give up hope.

[Arky]

They do not have the right to dictate what you believe but neither do you have the right to dictate what they believe. You have to let people live their own life. You are only responsible for yours...... .....Live and let live.


I agree

Raweater, your current psychological attachment to the notion that you have come into possession of what you perceive as some kind of 'ultimate & unassailable truth' is an opportunity for you to learn something about *yourself*, and, if you're willing to question your current thinking, you may grow, psychologically.

Can you really be so sure that such things as absolute 'Right' and 'Wrong' really have any concrete reality..?


Or... you may choose to hold onto a somewhat totalitarian belief that there is no room in your life for beliefs other than those you hold yourself, and to generate psychological resistance to anything or anyone you perceive to be dissonant with your beliefs.

That would be completely your prerogative, of course, but ask yourself who will suffer the most if you choose such a course of action in your life?

Take a look around you - the world is full of evangelism, totalitarian belief systems, and intolerance - does this make the world a nicer place to live in? (OK, 'nice' isn't everything, but humans tend to prefer 'nice' if it's available ;-)

It might have been nicer for you to have never experienced the unpleasant challenges you've described to us, but you're no exception. Read around the forum and you'll find I've suffered from the pharmaceutical industry, too (vaccinations), and there are many, many others who have similar stories of pharmaceutical woes to tell, but even though my own family refuse to entertain that my own situation is possible, I don't shun them; what possible good could come from shunning them?

Here's the thing: If I simply choose to let go of any arbitrary notion that 'my family must share my viewpoint or there is a problem', then no problem exists!

The same goes for thoughts of 'I'm a victim of the pharmaceutical industry'. If I were unwise enough to choose to hold onto such a thought, I could then build upon it (as human beings so often do) by generating feelings of resentment, anger; even vengefulness. It sounds cliched, but it's nonetheless evident that such feelings serve to do nothing positive for my future physical or psychological health.



Consequently, although, as I've already said, it is your prerogative to do as you wish in your life and in your current situation, may I suggest that you consider the possibility that the fulcrum around which your entire predicament currently revolves, is a single thing:

A THOUGHT THAT YOU ARE HOLDING IN YOUR MIND.


If you were to simply reframe your thinking, to adapt to the perceived situation of dissonance you are currently experiencing, rather than unrealistically expecting other people (and life in general) to change in order to match your own arbitrary thoughts/beliefs, you might arrive at a profoundly liberating conclusion that your whole experience of life is more pleasant or less pleasant, depending on whether you hold rigid & inflexible thoughts or choose to adapt your thinking to every life situation. The key point here is that THOUGHTS & THINKING ARE ENTIRELY ARBITRARY.

I highly recommend you look into the work of Byron Katie and Hale Dwoskin (I consider Hale Dowskin's work to be a stepping stone to Byron Katie's, but either or both would be of great benefit to you)


Take care

[raweater]

Unless they are denigrating you at every turn, leave them be to make their own mistakes.

Thanks for the reply. In response to the part I quoted, they sort of denigrate me often by saying things like "He thinks eating that way is going to help him" (saying it in a "what a fool" kind of way). They almost every time indirectly tell me I'm a fool for drinking filtered or bottled water and keep referring to the same falsified tap water study where they cherry picked the data in such a way to make tap water look better than filtered water (this study looked only at bacteria content, of course tap water has no bacteria, it's so toxic that if you add bacteria to tap water they die instantly). And they say the studies I refer too which are properly done and clearly shows tap water to cause cancer and heart disease to be "ridiculous". They also think tea has more caffeine than coffee based on a coffee industry study that again was designed to come to this false conclusion by measuring the caffeine in tea leaves and in coffee beans, not in brewed tea and brewed coffee.

But what bothers me the most is that my uncle has a friend that became a doctor and prescribed him a cholesterol drug which now over 900 studies prove how useless and dangerous it is, study after study shows it increases mortality because it causes deadly side effects like cancer, diabetes, alzeihmers, etc. "Strangely" the only study that showed benefits was the study done by the company selling this snake oil and even that study only shows a pathetic 1% reduction in heart attacks (and they went out of their way to get such a result as independent studies show it increases heart attacks by 10% or more). In fact he's already suffering from the side effects and he can no longer do any sports and none of them realize it's the drug destroying his health. So his incompetent doctor is literally murdering his own friend without realizing it by foolishly trusting the company's marketing and ignoring 900 scientific studies proving my point, and they think I'm a complete fool while they're blindly trusting the marketing of companies repeatedly fined for causing mass murders with exactly this kind of scam they've been doing over and over again.

I'm in the process of writing them a detailed letter focusing on this deadly drug he is taking, there's so much evidence that I'll present that frankly if they can't see the truth after that then they fully deserve the deadly side effects they are suffering through and I won't have the slightest pitty for the pain and suffering, and eventual premature death it will cause them. But I want to make sure my letter is written as well and as convincing as possible, but the evidence I have to support my side and lack of evidence to support what his incompetent doctor told him is so overwhelming I have a strong feeling they'll have no choice but to wake up. I'll also offer simple diet changes such as replacing pasta with whole grain pasta, white bread with whole wheat bread, etc., this way they'll have easy diet changes they can start with without having to go on a raw diet, they can cure their health problems without a diet as strict as a raw diet if they aren't ready for that.

I'll try to have this letter done within a few weeks and am anxious to see the result it will have, but again I have so much evidence that they would realize how foolish they have been to blindly trust a criminal company's marketing rather than relying on science.

[MysticTree]

Thanks for the reply. In response to the part I quoted, they sort of denigrate me often by saying things like "He thinks eating that way is going to help him" (saying it in a "what a fool" kind of way). They almost every time indirectly tell me I'm a fool for drinking filtered or bottled water and keep referring to the same falsified tap water study where they cherry picked the data in such a way to make tap water look better than filtered water (this study looked only at bacteria content, of course tap water has no bacteria, it's so toxic that if you add bacteria to tap water they die instantly). And they say the studies I refer too which are properly done and clearly shows tap water to cause cancer and heart disease to be "ridiculous". They also think tea has more caffeine than coffee based on a coffee industry study that again was designed to come to this false conclusion by measuring the caffeine in tea leaves and in coffee beans, not in brewed tea and brewed coffee.

But what bothers me the most is that my uncle has a friend that became a doctor and prescribed him a cholesterol drug which now over 900 studies prove how useless and dangerous it is, study after study shows it increases mortality because it causes deadly side effects like cancer, diabetes, alzeihmers, etc. "Strangely" the only study that showed benefits was the study done by the company selling this snake oil and even that study only shows a pathetic 1% reduction in heart attacks (and they went out of their way to get such a result as independent studies show it increases heart attacks by 10% or more). In fact he's already suffering from the side effects and he can no longer do any sports and none of them realize it's the drug destroying his health. So his incompetent doctor is literally murdering his own friend without realizing it by foolishly trusting the company's marketing and ignoring 900 scientific studies proving my point, and they think I'm a complete fool while they're blindly trusting the marketing of companies repeatedly fined for causing mass murders with exactly this kind of scam they've been doing over and over again.

I'm in the process of writing them a detailed letter focusing on this deadly drug he is taking, there's so much evidence that I'll present that frankly if they can't see the truth after that then they fully deserve the deadly side effects they are suffering through and I won't have the slightest pitty for the pain and suffering, and eventual premature death it will cause them. But I want to make sure my letter is written as well and as convincing as possible, but the evidence I have to support my side and lack of evidence to support what his incompetent doctor told him is so overwhelming I have a strong feeling they'll have no choice but to wake up. I'll also offer simple diet changes such as replacing pasta with whole grain pasta, white bread with whole wheat bread, etc., this way they'll have easy diet changes they can start with without having to go on a raw diet, they can cure their health problems without a diet as strict as a raw diet if they aren't ready for that.

I'll try to have this letter done within a few weeks and am anxious to see the result it will have, but again I have so much evidence that they would realize how foolish they have been to blindly trust a criminal company's marketing rather than relying on science.

Such letters need to be short and to the point. Anything over half a page will not get read. Make it brief with references to the data that supports you but don't bog the letter down with information; it won't get read.

[raweater]

That's really discouraging me, my letter is already almost 10 pages. You really think they'd put months of work I did just for them in the trash? That would make want them delete them from my life.

[raweater]

I wanted to add to my last message. I really don't think I could have any convincing nor solutions to the problem in under half a page. I could reduce it to 2-3 pages but I think anything under half a page would lack evidence and immediately be dismissed.

[MysticTree]

That's really discouraging me, my letter is already almost 10 pages. You really think they'd put months of work I did just for them in the trash? That would make want them delete them from my life.

Try looking at it this way ...

If they wrote you a 10 page letter about why you shouldn't eat raw food, would you read it all? How far down the the first page would you get? Think about that honestly and then reconsider how to write your letter. 10 page letters are rarely ones which should get sent in my experience.

[raweater]

I see your point, but the major advantage I have is that I have science to back my claims and proof they're already suffering from the drug while there's no science to support what they believe in. But I understand what you're saying and will try to reduce my letter to under 2 pages, but I have a feeling they will read it.

Do you think if I started with "I would honestly prefer that you take the time to fully read this letter even if that's the last gift you ever give me, I'd prefer that you read this letter and to never have a Christmas or birthday gift ever again" (which is absolutely true) would help?

Thanks

[MysticTree]

I see your point, but the major advantage I have is that I have science to back my claims and proof they're already suffering from the drug while there's no science to support what they believe in. But I understand what you're saying and will try to reduce my letter to under 2 pages, but I have a feeling they will read it.

Do you think if I started with "I would honestly prefer that you take the time to fully read this letter even if that's the last gift you ever give me, I'd prefer that you read this letter and to never have a Christmas or birthday gift ever again" (which is absolutely true) would help?

Thanks

Honestly? No I don't think it would. You have to think like an ad-man. Short. Snappy and wanting the reader to know more. When you have them hooked, then is the time to bring out the science and the proof. 10 pages shrieks "obsessive nut" if the person reading the literature is not already interested.

I understand that you are writing it because you care and maybe they would understand that too but they need to know more than that you care. More than that they need to be intrigued and want to know more.

[Arky]

http://tinyurl.com/42uomkc

[raweater]

I'm already trimming lots of stuff out the letter which I realized aren't entirely necessary (like explaining my own story in details, I'll just mention it quickly instead).

What you say makes sense and I think I can adapt my letter to be shorter (though not half a page) and more to the point.

Thanks for the advise.

[raweater]

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/webkit-fake-url://19215015-1A2A-49E6-B250-6887342AFC7F/1080.gif

Your image URL is broken, what is it supposed to be?

[Daisyhead]

If you write a letter at all, it should come from a place of kindness. It's ok to tell them how you feel when they put you down for eating raw. It's ok to tell them about the studies about the drugs that they are taking, but you sound very angry with them. Your anger may prevent them from hearing you. I hope it all works out for the best. All this stress can't be good for you when you are fighting cancer. I try to remember...Some people want to be happy, and some people want to be right.

[raweater]

I never let my anger towards their decisions show so they don't know how I feel about it.

BTW I'm not fighting cancer, it's Crohn's disease I had and have been 100% cured since 6 years when I changed my diet.

Thanks

[Arky]

...I try to remember...Some people want to be happy, and some people want to be right.


Yep, and the irony of the latter is that they are chasing something which is a figment of the imagination.

[Revvell]

Leave others to their otherness and take care of yourself.

[raweater]

Leave others to their otherness and take care of yourself.

I'm not sure about the USA, but in Canada it's a crime not to assist someone that's in danger if you can help them without putting yourself in danger. So you're basically asking me to commit a crime.

Even without that law, it would be extremely unethical of my part not to warn them of the extreme dangers of the drug he is on, so I'll at least send them the letter with scientific studies (not all 900+ of course) since so far I admit I haven't presented them with proof and that may be why they think I'm believing in nonsense. If they choose to ignore the science I show them then indeed it will be their problem and I won't have any guilt about not having warned them.

[Revvell]

Let us know how that works for you.

[raweater]

I will and I have a feeling they might wake up. After all I've been cured of my "incurable" disease for 6 years now while those with the disease I had who rely on modern medicine have a short and painful life so that says a lot. The hardest part is how to get him to understand that he can't trust a doctor that's his own friend, it such a sad situation, if his friend had not become a doctor he would be so much healthier today, but because of his doctor friend he's the sickest one in the family as every treatment his doctor gives him causes him a new disease. I understand his point of view that his doctor would be a more trustworthy source of health information, but that would only be true if modern medicine wasn't so corrupt by big pharma.

Wish me luck.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Just a suggestion regarding your long letter. Why don't you simply put it into a book? At least, the information will go to the ones ready for your wisdom and experience.

I want to say that i am so sorry that you learned the hard way about how important it is to be our own doctor. I love conventional medicine when this is in balance when it has its place. Sadly, this is misused for the love of profit. The doctor and nurse, many have the best intention and as it was mention, they are simply brain washed. The good news, some do step outside the box. I have also family member that are nurse or high position in conventional medicine. I am careful of not discussing my opinion but i will gladly express it if asked. I go to my doctor to get the scientific result such blood work, scan etc... then i make my own decision. Doctor should be trained to give us option regarding our health but they are trained to study all the drug's name more then nutrition.

As for your family, you have been given a great advice. I would just love them the way they are and avoid at all cost to discuss about your view with them. They shouldn't try to pressure you to go their way but they are entitle to their opinion. I would let them know what you feel with 100% confidence if the opportunity raise. I was very careful when i decided not to pursue with vaccination with my daughter by fear, they would report me as a neglected parent but i stand my ground from a good place. Today, they cannot argue anymore because my child is so radiant of health. Today, they are seeing how much younger i look compare to them and trust me, they are asking question for themselves. They are even including more live food in their diet.

Unconditional love isn't only about others, it is about you also. You need to do what is right for you while loving them the way they are. You can turn their comments into humor if you resonate with this advice. This is what i do at my work, this is a place packed with doctors, phd etc.. and they still think this is a matter of time that i will collapse from being vegan, lol.... They don't tease me now and they seem to have accepted that i am still alive and look radiant of health, lol...

Hang in there, you will be the living proof that your life style is the way. Things will turn around. Don't even try to be right with them but instead invest your energy to help the ones that are ready to learn. This is what i have done and it is so inspiring to help others. I bless my family for the best and just focus on the one ready for this information.

You are doing wonderful.

All the best!

[raweater]

It's kind of ironic you recommend turning my long letter into a book for them, that's exactly what I did several years ago. I only know that one of them read it and after reading it basically told me "studies always contract each other so there's no point in watching what you eat". So I have added an entire new chapter explaining why studies are always contradicting each other (basically some are independent and properly done and some are done by the ones selling the product in question and are falsified/fabricated to arrive at the result they want to get).

I'm about 99.9% sure the one that's on the dangerous drug didn't even read a page of it, even though I was writing it mostly for him, at least several hundred other people have read it and my only complaint so far was that I have honey in some recipes while I inadvertently advertised the book as vegan so I now mention that I use honey (I used to use agave but with studies questioning it's health risks I've updated all recipes to use honey which I now believe is healthier).

That's why I'm now opting for a shorter letter, which I'm quite certain they will take the time to read if it's written specifically for them whereas the book was more in general. I'm also taking the advise mentioned and shortening the letter even more, I'll try to keep it short, to the point, with scientific information about the drug he's on and I think this might be the key to wake him up. In a way it's a good thing he's on one of the most dangerous drugs there is because it means the evidence is beyond overwhelming (over 900 studies showing the dangers of just that drug) and he's already suffering from the side effects which his doctor thinks is a new unrelated disease.

I think the reason they don't yet believe me is that (other than the book they haven't read), I basically just told them "that drug is dangerous and increases mortality compared to taking a placebo" without presenting any proof, so that's extremely easy to dismiss. That's why I'll now reference some of those 900+ studies and link to them so they can see what I'm saying is based on science and what his doctor is telling him is only the drug company's marketing and not science at all.

I'll let you know how they respond, I still want to work on the letter in my spare time for a few weeks to refine it, the way I write it will literally make the difference between life and death for them, so it's not something I'm taking lightly and that's why I'm taking my time, but now that the side effects are already harming his quality of life I want to have it done within a month or so.

Thanks

[BlackKat]

If they aren't letting you be who you want to be, why keep them around? You might be wasting your time with the letter, but maybe it'll ease your mind that at least you said something about how you felt. But like others have said it's best to live and let live. If they aren't letting you live life happily and freely the way you want, then find new friends who can become closer than your family. This world is full of loving accepting people!

also, let your actions, not words speak louder... you are living a happier healthier life this way correct? Well eventually if they aren't complete morons they will notice how great you are doing (mentally and physically) and start to become curious. If they don't it'll be because they don't care, OR they care more about their stubborn ingrained opinions and not the happiness of someone like you.

[raweater]

It's not that they aren't letting me be who I want to be but they often site falsified studies that "prove" what they believe in not realizing those "studies" are nothing but fraudulent marketing to sell products. The funniest thing is that when I site a properly done independent study they'll say "that's just marketing", not realizing the reality is just the opposite.

So in truth, the more they try to ridicule what I believe in, the more they prove how foolish and gullible they are because I know the studies they believe in are falsified and know how they were falsified to reach those results, that's something I'll quickly mention on my letter to show them how they've been fooled by those "scientific" studies.

[MysticTree]

that's something I'll quickly mention on my letter to show them how they've been fooled by those "scientific" studies.

You might want to rethink that because no-one likes to think they have been made a fool of and resisting that conclusion can make people stick firm rather than allowing themselves to be gently brought round to a more truthful conclusion.

The main thing in this is probably not the truth but rather the psychology of persuasion.

[Raw Angel Mom]

You are very wise and you will do great. I hear you and you do what you feel is right.

Please don't forget to let go the attachment they will read it and trust that if this is a meant to be they will.

The book that i mentioned with is for other people other then your family. I don't know why, but at time no matter how much advice you give to your immediate family, they just don't buy it but if you receive this advice from a stranger, you somehow value it. The right person will come in their life, when they are ready to open themselves to this very important information. In the mid time, i would send my energy to the others that could benefit of what you know.

This is very important what you have to say and it doesn't have to be to your family if they aren't open to that.

All the best to you!

[raweater]

You might want to rethink that because no-one likes to think they have been made a fool of and resisting that conclusion can make people stick firm rather than allowing themselves to be gently brought round to a more truthful conclusion.

The main thing in this is probably not the truth but rather the psychology of persuasion.

I might have said it in a harsh way, but I'd simply gently explain how these studies got to those results. For example with the tap water study they keep referring to, I'll simply explain how this study cherry picked the data and looks only at bacteria count while ignoring all the rest that's found in water like chemicals and that hundreds of properly done studies prove it wrong.

I'd also explain to them the coffee study how they looked at the caffeine in coffee beans and tea leaves to say that tea has more caffeine, and that all studies done on the infusion that people drink all show tea has less caffeine.

I don't see how this would be worst to tell them than them referring to those fabricated/falsified studies.

[BlackKat]

It's not that they aren't letting me be who I want to be but they often site falsified studies that "prove" what they believe in not realizing those "studies" are nothing but fraudulent marketing to sell products. The funniest thing is that when I site a properly done independent study they'll say "that's just marketing", not realizing the reality is just the opposite.

So in truth, the more they try to ridicule what I believe in, the more they prove how foolish and gullible they are because I know the studies they believe in are falsified and know how they were falsified to reach those results, that's something I'll quickly mention on my letter to show them how they've been fooled by those "scientific" studies.

Sadly you're never going to completely get away from people who aren't willing to hear you out. My brother is the same way... I avoid the conversation completely. I tried and tried to "educate" him but if someone is not ready to "get it" they just won't, and no one can push them. My mom was the same but I've been at this thing long enough for her to start listening. She believes the majority of the stuff I tell her now, before she thought I was nuts and always told me I'd make myself sick, or the usual protein deficiency response...

[PansyLo]

I think you're holding a lot of anger and resentment against your family. Whatever you decide you should deal with accepting that your beliefs are yours and that you can't shove them down other peoples throats, even if your right. It's not going to help them. The most chance they have of changing their minds is if you become healthy and balanced and they become curious. If you try and push it on them they're only going to get defensive and reject the idea. If they ask for advice give it, if not don't.

Sometimes you have to accept that some people do not want to listen and do not want to change and as much as you want to help them it's not up to you to make that change for them. They are the ones with the rights to their own bodies.

I'm a firm believer in cutting negative people out of your life but I feel like this negativity is party being stirred by you too (no offense! I'm just going by what you're saying). If you accept that they don't want to change and when they insult your lifestyle tell them that you don't shove your lifestyle down their throats and expect the same courtesy yet they still don't accept you then perhaps it is time to detach yourself from them.

If you feel like their negativity is affecting your personal growth then that's the point where it's fair to decide to part with them.

Don't do it out of anger though. You perhaps have to look work through some things yourself and figure out why you hold so much resentment over them being wrong or why you feel so betrayed by it?



I haven't told my family about my diet yet. I told my mum I was trying out, she has some vague interest in becoming healthier and likes to learn about things that have healing properties so may like to try the idea after seeing me get healthier on it (assuming I do, I'm only on day 14, with a few set backs too).
My brother is a smart guy and he often directs me to studies of interest. He believes that many medicine is detrimental to health and will refuse to take it.
My other brother and my dad accepted my gluten free veganism without too much comment. I don't think I'd ever bother explaining what I'm doing or my reasons behind it to my dad though, he'd probably think it ridiculous unless he was shown the facts in depth but that would take a while and it would be hard to get him interested long enough to go that into it.



I doubt anyone in my family would ever go 100% raw. I'm okay with that their diet is not my business. My mother might go more raw but I think that would be it! I would be pretty pleased if she decided to do that.

I doubt they'd seriously give me a hard time. They might make a humorous jib at me but as long as I have a good retort about their diet it'll be laughed off. I'd never cut my family out. I love them and they're good positive people. They're diets and opinions are theirs and it doesn't affect who they are as people.

If one of my close family got sick and were taking a bad course recommended by doctors then I'd - with complete sensitivity- suggest they try my way. If they didn't want to I'd be sad but accept their decision and wouldn't bring it up again.

[Indie]

Hi Raweater,

I totally understand where you come from - we have the same law in Norway and even if we didn't, there's my conscience to be dealing with if I say nothing and could have helped the person in question. Personally, I suggest you make the letter as long as needs be (I can't answer for others, but I certainly would read such a letter to the end), and that you hand it to your uncle saying something along the lines of "I know you don't look at this the way I do, but I really care about you and for the sake of my own conscience I feel compelled to give this information to you. We don't have to talk any more about this - all I ask is that you read the letter. I wish you the very best of health." After that, you don't have to talk about it and hopefully you can enjoy spending time together. You might not know whether he reads the letter or not, but if he does read it and is grateful for your concern or wishes to learn more, he will let you know. If not, no harm done.

My own father told me recently that he thinks I'm being "all religious fanatic" about not seeing regular doctors or taking any kind of 'medication'. Well, I haven't actually needed to see a doctor in 5 years (touch wood!) and his health deteriorates with every new medication he starts taking. One day he might connect the dots, but what I've learnt in life is that you can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. They have to get there on their own. All you can do is love them, pray for them (if you are that way inclined) and be yourself - your example might eventually show them the way.

Good luck with the letter and I hope it all works out well. Your frustration comes from a place of love and that's the most important thing. Try focusing on that if nothing comes of this - whether your uncle takes your advice or not, he will know that you truly care for him.

[raweater]

I really like your suggestion and will probably do that, but I'll still try to keep the letter relatively short. I also just today got the idea of mentioning a free simple alternative that doesn't require any drastic diet changes. I looked up studies on red meat and heart disease, and simply reducing from 8 portions a month to less than 4 portions a month reduces the risk of heart attack by 490% (as well as reduces the risk of cancer considerably), compare that to the drug he's on that only reduces heart attack risk by 1% (and that's if you trust the manufacturer!) while increasing cancer risk by 1500%. I think these simple facts by themselves send a very powerful message while at the same time offering a very easy simple diet change that doesn't even require going vegetarian. If he simply reduced his meat consumption and/or quit the dangerous drug that's shown to increase mortality compared to a placebo I'd be thrilled.