Gluten sensitivity...a thought....

[Rawkinlocs]

Quick question but I wonder something. COULD gluten sensitivity be one of those things like with allergies where a person can't tolerate them while their body is polluted but then later, as things get cleaned out they can?

Like people have these "food allergies" and can't eat certain fruits or veggies or nuts/seeds but it's really are a result of an unclean body and once they become raw and become clean, many of the foods they were "allergic" to, they can now eat freely. Does this (gluten sensitivity) fall into the same category or no?

Also, doesn't the soaking and sprouting of grains help with the whole gluten intolerance thing or no?

[Revvell]

I can't tolerate grains as bread yet I can eat wheat sprouts. Now that you ask and got me thinking on it, is it the bread and the combination of stuff ~ cooked, or is it the wheat itself? Wheat grass juice (other than it's nasty) doesn't bother me or create saliva as does bread; neither does sprouted wheatberries.

Soaking and sprouting changes the molecular structure of the wheat so it's in a totally different form than wheat that's been ground and made into flower methinks.

R.

[Punky]

I can't tolerate grains as bread yet I can eat wheat sprouts. Now that you ask and got me thinking on it, is it the bread and the combination of stuff ~ cooked, or is it the wheat itself? Wheat grass juice (other than it's nasty) doesn't bother me or create saliva as does bread; neither does sprouted wheatberries.

Soaking and sprouting changes the molecular structure of the wheat so it's in a totally different form than wheat that's been ground and made into flower methinks.

R.

they say wheatgrass doesn't have the gluten in it.
Now if someone has full blown celiac disease it still maybe iffy and not recommended.


Rawkinlocs, people with celiac disease can never have gluten
for the rest of their lives. It actually damages their intestines....

Celiac disease, also known as gluten intolerance, is a genetic disorder that affects 1 in 1331 Americans. Symptoms of celiac disease can range from the classic features, such as diarrhea, weight loss, and malnutrition, to latent symptoms such as isolated nutrient deficiencies but no gastrointestinal symptoms. The disease mostly affects people of European (especially Northern European) descent, but recent studies show that it also affects Hispanic, Black and Asian populations as well1. Those affected suffer damage to the villi (shortening and villous flattening) in the lamina propria and crypt regions of their intestines when they eat specific food-grain antigens (toxic amino acid sequences) that are found in wheat, rye, and barley3. Oats have traditionally been considered to be toxic to celiacs, but recent scientific studies have shown otherwise. This research is ongoing, however, and it may be too early to draw solid conclusions....[read more]
taken from www.celiac.com

I am gluten sensitive too but do not have the classic symptoms and gastrointestinal distress. I had nutrient deficiancies from malabsorption
from my labwork from Enterolab-- www.finerhealth.com.
Sometimes I wish I had it full blown because I still get tempted to eat these grains (they are addicting!). My symptoms where/are bloating and tired alot.
Low energy.

I'm not sure if I answered your question, but it is not the same as a food allergy inwhich some people outgrow.

[cactus]

as you know I'm a celiac and can't eat most grains, the specialist told me this would always be so but they also said I would always have lupus and even though it shows in my blood tests I have no symptoms anymore so I thought Id experiment with the Gluten thing, I had some bread the other day and my stomach hurt so much I thought I was going to die, so I guess for me I'm still a celiac, but then I have been doing this for about 6 months or less, so maybe it takes longer, I also can't eat avocado since I was a teenager it made me violently ill, but I'm not game to try that again just yet to see if the allergy is past,

one thing I do know is there is a big difference between and intolerance and an allergy to a specific food, maybe one you can heal and the other you cant, although I have to say that with my experiences so far on this raw food anything is possible so I have an open mind.

[rawpriestess]

Well, I can tell you what is going on with me.

I have a Wheat intollerance, and I can NOT eat any wheat if I eat any sugar type substance within 8 hours of eating any wheat products.

I have a dairy allergy.

So, I can eat sprouted wheat berries, spelt and kamut, with no challenges, if I have a shot of wheatgrass (as far as I'm concerned it's nasty, much like avocados) then I am fine, no reaction, even If I have sugars like fruits within a few minutes, let alone hours.

But, if I have one tiny little baby bite of bread, or any thing with wheat (un sprouted) or gluten in it, YIKES, I am craving wheat for days, and it can be cooked or not, like cookie dough or something, and I have the same reaction to it.

So, for me, sprouting it makes all the difference, when I made raw flour, and tried to make raw cookie dough ice cream etc, I reacted to the flour part, although it was raw.(plus it didn't taste good, kind of sour, or something)

As far as Dairy, I can not eat or drink any, no matter what, even if it is raw, or goat cheese or anything. NO milk, cheese, etc of any kind.

Now, maybe this will change, the longest I've been 100% (so far) was about 2 months, then it was off and on, so it may change when I am raw longer.

[MoniDew]

One of the (many) articles I wrote while practicing was on wheat sensitivity/gluten issues:

Going Against the Grain

Have you heard the expression, “he/she eats like a bird”? When a person consumes grains, they certainly are eating like a bird. The anatomical structure of a human body is not equipped for grain consumption. (We have developed a societal practice of grain consumption in spite of the biological facts.) Birds, designed for grain consumption, have two organs the human body does not: the crop, and the gizzard. These two organs, the grain-processing factory of graminivorous creatures, function together in digestion – one organ never appears in a creature without the presence of the other.

Remaining in the crop for 8-10 hours, grains absorbs moisture, which washes enzyme-inhibiting agents off the grain’s hull, allowing them to germinate (sprout.) Germination generates tremendous enzyme activity, beginning the process of digestion. Enzymes secreted by the crop contribute to the process of digestion. Once enzyme activity has begun, the grains pass into the gizzard, where small pebbles, ingested by the bird, stone-grind the grains. Further digestion by the gizzard’s digestive secretions occurs here.

Lacking the two organs necessary for digestion, humans must find other ways to process grains. Cooking grains to destroy the enzyme inhibitors on a grain’s hull replaces internal sprouting in the crop. Stone grinding by mechanical means replaces the internal grinding occurring in the bird’s gizzard. Yet, lacking the anatomical organs to perform a certain function also indicates a lack of corresponding biochemistry to perform that function. Without the organs, no production of corresponding digestive secretions can occur. Humans have no ability to compensate for the lack of biochemistry.

As a result, many illnesses related to grain-consumption potentially arise in humans. The gastro-intestinal tract attempts to compensate for the lack of proper secretions, by hyper-secreting enzymes it does have the ability to make, regardless of the fact that they are not enzymes required. In response to this mal-adaptation, the intestinal tract becomes inflamed or ulcerated. Celiac/Sprue, colitis, and Crohn’s are diseases of mal-adaptation to grains.

Gluten, the protein found in grains, is particularly an issue. (Protein structures are particularly difficult to break down, especially in the lack of protein-digesting enzyme secretion.) The presence of partially digested gluten protein in the blood stream alerts the attention of the immune system, as if it were a foreign invader. The enzymes of the immune system must complete the task the digestive system could not. The immune system, in some individuals, is not capable of continued devotion to this task. Immune and/or autoimmune disorders such as rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, or other illnesses may result.

The simple act of sprouting grains releases such tremendous enzyme activity that humans potentially could eat grains without difficulty, if they are willing to eat them raw and sprouted – enzymes are destroyed by heat and activated by sprouting. Consuming non-gluten grains such as buckwheat or quinoa also eases the burden on the immune system. So, if you chose to consume grains, at least eat them like a bird, raw and sprouted (and non-gluten.)

[Rawkinlocs]

Thank you everyone for your responses and input! So basically what I'm getting is, some people have wheat/grain intolerances with COOKED wheat/grains, but not necessarily so with raw, sprouted grains. If one has celiac disease, however, they can never eat grains again no matter what?

Can the body ever be or has anyone ever had celiac disease to reverse or heal through eating raw food (sans grains) and then later on were able to handle sprouted grains? I'm just wondering if like with many other things within, if we eliminate the offending foods and just feed the body nourishing raw, live fruits and veggies if the body has the chance to heal itself of celiac disease and then later the person (if they so choose to) could eat sprouted grains.

Thanks again for the input!

[ReneeSC]

I had the same thoughts and questions, Rawk.

I think anything is possible at this point. :)

[Punky]

Can the body ever be or has anyone ever had celiac disease to reverse or heal through eating raw food (sans grains) and then later on were able to handle sprouted grains? I'm just wondering if like with many other things within, if we eliminate the offending foods and just feed the body nourishing raw, live fruits and veggies if the body has the chance to heal itself of celiac disease and then later the person (if they so choose to) could eat sprouted grains.


RAWK,
I have never heard or read of this happening, but that doesn't mean
it's not possible ;)

Kenneth Fine, M.D. mentioned in several previous posts w/the website
www.finerhealth.com (he's a holistic M.D.)
is a gluten specialist and a rawfooder that I use to know personally.
I know when I asked him about wheat grass he still didn't advise it.
I think more research needs to be done with people that have celiac disease
and have been raw fooders for a lengthy time...it might be genetic though and may never get any better.
Sorry I couldn't really answer that question for you.

[PixieGreen]

To bring up another related point.. Dr Cousens found that when nuts/ grains were soaked in food grade hydrogen peroxide they were more easily digested then when soaked in water. Suggests that perhaps some people are actually sensitive to the bacteria that thrive on these foods, as opposed to the gluten within. I would be curious if grains or nuts soaked in hp or with a water ozonator then dehydrated and eaten would bother those only mildly sensitive to them.

Aside: Rawkinlocs, I believe you mentioned your husband is sensitive to oats? Rolling first then soaking them overnight with a few kefir grains [lightly fermenting] would render them more digestable.

Christa

[Gwendolene]

No sadly, if someone with celiac eats gluten they will be right back where they started!! Please don't put your health at risk!! Raw food is wonderful without it!

[dreamrawalwz]

I have a sensativity to ALL grains, as well as almost everything else these days. Does this mean I'm constnatly toxic inside and I'm not detoxing? I feel stuck. Anyway, i'm afraid to try any sprouted grains in fear of a reaction.

[Lay-Lay]

I have a sensativity to ALL grains, as well as almost everything else these days. Does this mean I'm constnatly toxic inside and I'm not detoxing? I feel stuck. Anyway, i'm afraid to try any sprouted grains in fear of a reaction.


Before raw I was like you. My husband said he needed to put me in a sanitary bubble and feed me only organic lettuce because that seemed to be the only thing I could eat or come in contact with without having some type of reaction. I gave myself allergy shots all day long and rotated my foods because there we too many foods that I was allergic to to eliminate them all. After I went raw over 3 years ago they got less and less and less and now the only thing I think I am still allergic to is bleach. Well who wants to be around bleach anyways. I may not even be allergic to it anymore, but I still don't plan on using it. Maybe yours will taper down with time.

[dreamrawalwz]

Before raw I was like you. My husband said he needed to put me in a sanitary bubble and feed me only organic lettuce because that seemed to be the only thing I could eat or come in contact with without having some type of reaction. I gave myself allergy shots all day long and rotated my foods because there we too many foods that I was allergic to to eliminate them all. After I went raw over 3 years ago they got less and less and less and now the only thing I think I am still allergic to is bleach. Well who wants to be around bleach anyways. I may not even be allergic to it anymore, but I still don't plan on using it. Maybe yours will taper down with time.

Wow, I hope so. The sanitary bubble thing made me laugh because that's me. I react to EVERYTHING and organic lettuce is just about the only think I don't react to, except now it causes gas and I don't digest it well....If I elliminated everything I react to I'd have nothing...maybe organic cantaloupe lol. But wow, 3 years? I'm so frustrated I don't want to wait 3 years. Is there anything specific you did after going raw? Sorry to take over this thread Rawkinlocs.

[jujube]

If you look at the most common food allergens, they're mostly things that humans haven't been eating for very long--milk, peanuts, soy, wheat, etc. Stuff that we probably shouldn't be eating anyway. With gluten, I don't think the allergy/sensitivity happens because the gluten is cooked or because someone's body is toxic, but because humans really aren't equipped to digest gluten.

So even if someone goes raw, and totally detoxes, I think that "not optimal" foods will still cause a reaction. That's my theory, anyway :) Probably the more ancient grains like quinoa and millet would be less problematic. Most of the gluten-containing grains are relatively new and more hybridized.

[juliebove]

I have a sensativity to ALL grains, as well as almost everything else these days. Does this mean I'm constnatly toxic inside and I'm not detoxing? I feel stuck. Anyway, i'm afraid to try any sprouted grains in fear of a reaction.

If I were you, I wouldn't try them. This is how my daughter is with grains. I believe there are three different things here. Allergies, sensitivities and when it comes to grains, also celiac.

Allergies also come in a variety of forms. There is the life threatening kind where a person goes into anaphalxic shock from coming into contact with the substance. Anyone who has this type of allergy must avoid the allergen at all costs. And if it is a wheat allergy that means even things like Play Doh.

Then there are milder forms of allergies. The kind my daughter and I have usually does not give us an immediate reaction. Now that we've cleaned all the allergens out of our system, the reaction does seem to be more immediate. But prior to that, we would not get sick for about 16 hours or so after eating the allergen. This is why it took us so long to figure it out. And we didn't really even figure it out until we'd been tested and stopped eating those foods. We went through a detox just as described here for a raw food detox. Same sort of thing. Felt worse before we felt better.

With a food sensitivity, there is some sort of reaction, but it's not technically and allergy. I believe an allergy is a reaction to the protein in a food. Now I react badly to oranges and raw pineapple if I put a piece in my mouth. However I made a batch of Nacho Cheese that had an orange in it. I did not react to this. The amount of orange in a serving of it small and it is mixed with other things. But it's a fairly certain bet that if I were to put a section orange in my mouth, I would get blisters. It has happened to me every time I tried it and I'm not planning to try it again. If I find that any amount of orange whatever also gives me the blisters then I will stop the orange totally.

Some people find that they react to things if they eat them too often. They may find they can have a small amount of the food say...every three weeks and are fine. But if they eat it any sooner than that, they react. Personally if I found I was in this category I would probably still avoid the food because it seems too stressful to try to figure it all out. Just easier for me to avoid the stuff to begin with.

Celiac is a totally different thing than an allergy. I am not a celiac so I'm no expert on this by any means. But from what I understand, it is a bad reaction to the gluten (a certain protein) in some foods. What happens if a celiac eats gluten in any amount and any form is damage to the intenstinal villa. It's an autoimmune disorder. Some celiacs do not have what seems to be an immediate reaction at all to gluten. In fact they might think they are not having a reaction so they continue to eat it. But the damage to the intestines continues. Then one day, they find themselves in such distress they can't metabolize their food at all. This is what happened to a teenaged diabetic that I know of. Just an interesting side note, people with type 1 diabetes are very prone to being celiac, although I don't know why. This girl wound up in the hospital very ill and unable to eat anything more then tiny amounts of white rice and banana.

I am in contact with many celiacs simply because the diet they eat is similar to what my daughter must eat with her wheat and gluten allergies. Although the main symptom of celiac is intestinal problems, it doesn't always manifest as such. Sometimes the only symptom is a rash on the skin or scalp. Or it could be tiredness or other vague symptoms. Here is a link explaining more about celiac:

http://glutenfreeworks.com/gluten_explained.php?src=overture

As you can see, people with celiac must avoid gluten at all times. They may not feel the reaction, but it is still causing damage to their body.

[firefaery]

In theory it can be healed, but I'm not there yet. My homeopath has high hopes though. If you can (in theory here) heal your gut enough, then you will halt the leaking of the protein AND the autoimmune response which is caused by the villi and microvilli already being compromised. He is working with several people on this now-but I haven't tested it and don't plan on doing it any time soon-far too painful.

Someone mentioned wheatgrass...that is not a problem for celiacs. My daughter and I both have it and have no problem with it at all. It's the grass and doesn't contain the protein. I asked many docs before trying it and we have both been fine. Dd actually breaks out in DH and screams for days if cross contaminated with a pan-she has no reaction to it.

ITA that we weren't really meant to consume it in the first place.