Frugivore's we are not

[RawnieColeman]

Taken from the Linus Pauling institute (who was Linus Pauling? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling )


Fructose

A study of 11 adult men found that a diet high in fructose (20% of total calories) resulted in increased urinary loss of phosphorus and a negative phosphorus balance (i.e., daily loss of phosphorus was higher than daily intake). This effect was more pronounced when the diet was also low in magnesium (3). A potential mechanism for this effect is the lack of feedback inhibition of the conversion of fructose to fructose-1-phosphate in the liver. In other words, fructose-1-phosphate accumulates in the cell but this compound does not inhibit the enzyme that phosphorylates fructose, which consumes large amounts of phosphate. This phenomenon is known as phosphate trapping (1). This study's finding is relevant because fructose consumption in the U.S. has been increasing rapidly since the introduction of high fructose corn syrup in 1970, while magnesium intake has decreased over the past century (3).

What's so important about Phosphorous?


Phosphorus is an essential mineral that is required by every cell in the body for normal function (1). The majority of the phosphorus in the body is found as phosphate (PO4). Approximately 85% of the body's phosphorus is found in bone (2).

Function

Phosphorus is a major structural component of bone in the form of a calcium phosphate salt called hydroxyapatite. Phospholipids (e.g., phosphatidylcholine) are major structural components of cell membranes. All energy production and storage are dependent on phosphorylated compounds, such as adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and creatine phosphate. Nucleic acids (DNA and RNA), which are responsible for the storage and transmission of genetic information, are long chains of phosphate-containing molecules. A number of enzymes, hormones, and cell-signaling molecules depend on phosphorylation for their activation. Phosphorus also helps to maintain normal acid-base balance (pH) by acting as one of the body's most important buffers. Additionally, the phosphorus-containing molecule 2,3-diphosphoglycerate (2,3-DPG) binds to hemoglobin in red blood cells and affects oxygen delivery to the tissues of the body (1).

After HFCS injected foods, like soda and junk food, fruits are the highest concentrated source of fructose. The worst offenders are some of the 'natural' sweetener alternatives: honey, agave nectar and applesauce have as much fructose by volume as a can of soda. Other foods that are inordinately high are: apple juice, grape juice, pomegranate juice, dates, figs, watermelons, mangoes, pineapples, pears and tamarind.

Over consumption of these foods will lead to an acidic body composition, and if eaten chronically (such as in raw juicing lifestyle) can easily lead to chronic bone and teeth loss due to calcium and phosphorous being leeched from the bones in order to properly balance body PH.

In order to counter act the effects of fructose you need to increase organic phosphorous consumption from seeds and vegetables. Seeds such as sunflower, pumpkin & sesame. Sunflower is best as it provides bone building magnesium and vitamin E. Pumpkin seeds are also high in magnesium. Tahini (if raw) will contain all of the nutrients the seeds do, it's probably best to prepare at home.

Mushrooms, squash and zucchini are among the vegetables highest in phosphorus.

Just because we have similar intestine length as other primates does not pre-dispose us to eating similar diets.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Interesting but i love my fruits and i cannot do without, lol.... Dr. Morse has 100 thousands of case that he helped to reverse their chronic condition with fruits. You cannot denial the result.

Thank you for sharing.

[Revvell]

A "diet high in fructose" doesn't necessarily mean a diet high in fruit. There's a major difference.

And, primates eat a diet high in greens.

You might also wish to read Norman W. Walker's books. He was a huge proponent of juicing and, from all reports, lived to be well over 100.

[RawnieColeman]

A "diet high in fructose" doesn't necessarily mean a diet high in fruit. There's a major difference.I can't say as I agree. Even if you restrict yourself to whole unprocessed foods, fruits still pose a significant source of fructose and need to be alkalized by proper calcium, phos. & magnesium consumption.


And, primates eat a diet high in greens.Yep, which is why your diet should be in larger proportion of veggies. Any vitamin and mineral that fruits provide can be had in higher concentrations in a vegetable alternative.

For example, oranges touted for their vitamin C content contain only about 50mg of C per 100g serving (.05% by weight), while red bell pepper contains 128mg per 100g, more than twice as much by weight in addition to being a significant source of vitamin A (63% RDA) B6 (15%) & Folate (11%). Every where you look vegetables, as a rule, are higher in vitamins and minerals than fruit. One of the few exceptions is the acerola cherry, which is the highest natural concentration of Vitamin C (by volume) that I know of.

Even when it comes to obtaining easily digestible sugar, the starches found in foods like potato, are more readily available than fructose (which must be first processed in the liver). Starch has the added benefit of being a toxin sponge, while fructose adds extra burden the the organs responsible for cleaning the blood.

[Meat_Juice]

I can't say as I agree. Even if you restrict yourself to whole unprocessed foods, fruits still pose a significant source of fructose and need to be alkalized by proper calcium, phos. & magnesium consumption.

Yep, which is why your diet should be in larger proportion of veggies. Any vitamin and mineral that fruits provide can be had in higher concentrations in a vegetable alternative.

For example, oranges touted for their vitamin C content contain only about 50mg of C per 100g serving (.05% by weight), while red bell pepper contains 128mg per 100g, more than twice as much by weight in addition to being a significant source of vitamin A (63% RDA) B6 (15%) & Folate (11%). Every where you look vegetables, as a rule, are higher in vitamins and minerals than fruit. One of the few exceptions is the acerola cherry, which is the highest natural concentration of Vitamin C (by volume) that I know of.

Even when it comes to obtaining easily digestible sugar, the starches found in foods like potato, are more readily available than fructose (which must be first processed in the liver). Starch has the added benefit of being a toxin sponge, while fructose adds extra burden the the organs responsible for cleaning the blood.



Fruits in general are supposed to digest better because of the fiber. They might contain less nutrients than vegetables, but fruits are also higher in calories than many vegetables.


Leafy greens we cannot digest very well because of the cellulose. That's the problem with greens and that's why we came up with the juicer.

I doubt our diets should have a larger proportion in veggies. The fact that eating pounds of veggies everyday and knowing that they don't digest as great, it would be like malnourishment. Also, they don't contain as many calories as fruits. So literally, you would like need pounds of them in order to get enough calories.

Of course, the green veggies are very high in vitamins and they are great healers, and it can be easily seen that they are the most abundant plant source in nature.

[Aleesha Sattva]

Life without fruit is like a day without sunshine.

Everything in balance...

I like to allow my body to guide me as to what foods it wants/needs. If it's fruit, then I eat fruit. If it's greens, then I consume greens. Nuts, seeds, veggies... all yummy things.

I tend to unsubscribe to anything/anyone who starts stating that "THIS WILL HARM YOU" regarding raw foods. I prefer a more gentle balanced outlook on food and life...

Besides... any raw ranks! :cheer:

[Non]

All I know is that semen is composed of 60% fructose.

Also, are fruit around all year round? Ie, in all seasons, in all climates in all areas? Do animals mate all the time? I read somewhere animals mate only in spring and/or summer. Probably only when fruits are available, or perhaps after they have been, and fructose is stored?

lol

But no yea I agree, fruit definitely should not be the main food.

What is "high" amounts of fructose anyway? I believe a diet like Gabriel Cousens is best. Low glycemic fruits, and moderate amounts, with a much higher proportion of greens and veggies. Baby greens, and sprouts being optimal.

As for grains and legumes.. I still dont know it's proper place in a healthy raw vegan diet. Sprouted of course.. though I think sprouted mung beans are perhaps a really beneficial source of carbs when you're not getting enough through eating tons of leafy greens like the apes do... and of course sprouted grains and fruit when they're in season.

[Non]

hm.. rawnie, well. I dont know.. I think Dr. Morse says fructose is actually faster digesting than starch, or glucose since it doesn't require insulin or as much to be taken up by the body.

Plus.. in Traditional Chinese Medicine, sweet foods and particularly I beleive the fruits and dates being the 'highest' natural "sweet" flavor found in nature, can stimulate the spleen. Spleen has to do with digestion. Fruits have good fiber.. I could eat salad all day and nuts, whatever and for some reason I could be bloated and constipated, probably because the ratio of soluble to insoluble fiber is not optimal. Fruits and grains/legumes definitely help with that. and also just as in western science the spleen has to do with getting rid of waste matter like dead cells, etc. And fruits can stimulate the lymphatic system like Dr. Morse says. You just said fructose can stimulate the organs to clean out the blood although it may not always be a waste if the blood needed to be cleaned anyway now would it? All of these can be attributed to the same spleen functions in TCM.

So fruits DO have a place in our diet, just not in excess. TCM recognizes this as well.

As for calories... I don't get as much calories as I'm "supposed" to be, yet I function fine on the Gabriel Cousens rainbow greens diet and I do lots of exercise. Simply because my body is not running on just excess carbs, and follows the Zone diet principles which optimizes utilization of macronutrients from food. Though I'm not completely sure of this because I don't count calories. It's possible I do get enough calories. I pretty much eat until I'm 70% or so full, of vegetables and nuts/seeds maybe with moderate amts of low glycemic fruit.

[Revvell]

I can't say as I agree.

Fine with me. I've been studying nutrition and myself for 30 years and have lived over twice that long and what I've found is, what someone says and what's true.... well, not always the same.

btw ~ Red bell pepper is a fruit.

I don't know where you're getting your information yet, if someone wanted to take the time to dispute it, pretty sure they could find resources to do so. Doug Graham is one.

[Revvell]

So fruits DO have a place in our diet, just not in excess.

Whatever that means.

[13WaysToFeed]

I can't say as I agree. Even if you restrict yourself to whole unprocessed foods, fruits still pose a significant source of fructose and need to be alkalized by proper calcium, phos. & magnesium consumption.

I don't get it. You are a raw foodist no? So you know there is a big difference between how your body responds to cooked vegetables and raw vegetables. So of course there's going to be a big difference to how we digest raw fruit fructose and refined sugars or other types of processed fructose. Unless they do this test using only raw fruit those results mean absolutely nothing about our ability to properly live off of fruit. It even mentions that the test was needed because of the increase in high fructose corn syrup intake. Which leads me to believe that they used hfcs in the study. I would absolutely expect them to find problems with how the body is reacting to that.

[RawnieColeman]

Whatever that means.Many fruits are roughly half fructose by caloric content, so excess would begin at 50% ore more of your total daily calories coming from fruit.


Also, they don't contain as many calories as fruits. That's the job of fat, imo, not sugar.

Fructose and glucose are two completely different types of nutrition. From a chemical standpoint, fructose should not even be classed in the sugar family (based on the way the body handles it). Potato start has more biological relevance to glucose than fructose does. But for convenience purposes they are lumped together because they share the same elements and are frequently paired together in nature. Inulin for example (belonging under fructans) is completely impossible for the body to digest and causes extreme stomach cramping and gas when eaten raw. The more complex the sugar, the less the body can use it.

Glucose is what the body wants, and contrary to the whole GI craze, is what you should give it in order to satisfy the bodies craving for it.


dates being the 'highest' natural "sweet" flavor found in nature, can stimulate the spleen Because dates have the highest concentration of glucose of any natural food. Of the common sweeteners, honey has the highest proportion of glucose. Problem is you can't get one without the other.

[EscapeArtist]

Thanks for sharing that info

I usually adjust my diet according to what I feel better on, what I feel better connected with. I personally find that a high sugar diet doesn't make me feel amazing, it just makes me feel okay, and if I go too long with too little fat and too much fruit I show signs of hypoglycemia. So I believe we aren't frugivores. However, fruit is a valuable component to a diet... Whether that means low GI berries or bananas to somebody doesn't matter as long as they are healthy and happy. Not to mention that piece of information with a blunt opinion as the title may make some fruit lovers on here feel like they should send out their opposing opinion so that viewers have both sides of the coin. Can lead to kind of an aggressive feeling thread. or even a debate, so it's important not to read as much into what people say as how you feel. But I appreciate this post a lot because I'm trying to transition to raw low-GI, frantically, as I have blood sugar and candida problems, so your post was motivational thanks :)

[Non]

Many fruits are roughly half fructose by caloric content, so excess would begin at 50% ore more of your total daily calories coming from fruit.

That's the job of fat, imo, not sugar.

Fructose and glucose are two completely different types of nutrition. From a chemical standpoint, fructose should not even be classed in the sugar family (based on the way the body handles it). Potato start has more biological relevance to glucose than fructose does. But for convenience purposes they are lumped together because they share the same elements and are frequently paired together in nature. Inulin for example (belonging under fructans) is completely impossible for the body to digest and causes extreme stomach cramping and gas when eaten raw. The more complex the sugar, the less the body can use it.

Glucose is what the body wants, and contrary to the whole GI craze, is what you should give it in order to satisfy the bodies craving for it.

Because dates have the highest concentration of glucose of any natural food. Of the common sweeteners, honey has the highest proportion of glucose. Problem is you can't get one without the other.

Actually, dates have the highest concentration of fructose. I dont know about glucose but that's also possible. It's also the highest glycemic source which sets the upper boundary of the glycemic index range.

AS for fructose being necessary for bodily functions, does the body make fructose on it's own or can we live w/o fruits?

[sport]

Frugivore's we are not.

I am and intend to stay that way.

[Revvell]

Whatever! I eat fresh fruit daily in the summer and whatever's available in the winter. Some people need to over-think this and then present what they read and regurgitate as if it's all true to complicate their lives and eating habits. If eating fruit works for you ~ do so. If not, don't. That's it!

[climbing]

Different people are different. I've tested it time and time again and I do way better on a diet with lower fruit and higher fats and protein. Too much sugar just makes me feel so gross. I do not have a sweet tooth at all, and just taste-wise, I couldn't possibly base most of my calories on fruit. After awhile, the sweet stuff makes me gag.

[DebB]

I'm on a fruit fast - I hope I survive....

[Revvell]

I'm on a fruit fast - I hope I survive....

Me tooooo!!! :(

[belleadonna]

This conversation is FRUITLESS!! :ROFL:

I think that we may very well be frugivores. Don't forget, peppers, squash, tomatoes, cukes, eggplant, olives, okra, pumpkins, green beans, etc.. are all botanically fruits. Just because they are not sweet does not mean that they are not fruits. Soooo, if you are eating any of these then you too are a frugivore. :yes:

Besides, why are we making rules?? Take pleasure in what you eat. :throwhearts:

[RawnieColeman]

Not to mention that piece of information with a blunt opinion as the title may make some fruit lovers on here feel like they should send out their opposing opinion so that viewers have both sides of the coin. Can lead to kind of an aggressive feeling thread. or even a debate, so it's important not to read as much into what people say as how you feel.I am trying to challenge peoples ideals without being offensive, and a healthy debate is a great way to get peoples true perspectives on their closely held beliefs, instead of the usual platitudes.

It's not surprising to me at all when people shift from a omnivore diet to vegetarian that they start feeling better immediately. As a rule, animal farming in the U.S. has devolved into a filthy inhumane practice. Just by simply eliminating beef, chicken, eggs and dairy you eliminate salmonella, e. coli and a whole host of other viruses and parasites that are ubiquitous in the mass market food supply.

Then you switch to raw vegan and again, heavy metal toxins like aluminum and teflon and nickel are eliminated from the diet (by virtue of eliminating cookware), and once again your health takes a dramatic turn for the positive. That's not surprising at all.

I wont question the case studies, and their apparent effectiveness and their ability to lift the veils of many diseases and restore energy and shed excess pounds. But just as important as the what and the how are the why. Do you truly know the mechanism behind why these diet's produce the results they do?

Is it because fruits are high in special properties like anti-oxidants, essential oils and phyto-nutrients? Or is it because bacteria and toxins, causing chronic immune depression, are removed along with the list of usual suspects (meat, dairy, pots & pans, toxic housecleaning supplies etc.).

I understand the draw of eating mono. Just listening to the news and soaking up these health documentaries makes me feel as if the local grocery store is more of a mine field, then a place for nourishment. It's no wonder people feel as if they should find one food that is relatively harmless, and stick to it at the exclusion of all others.

Having done low carb for long stretches I know exactly what that's like. At first you feel better, more energy etc. The pounds start coming off and everything's great until about a couple months in and the side effects of eating a mono lifestyle slowly creep in. After about 6 weeks I would start getting nasty dizzy spells. I would never completely black out but I 'grayed out' on several occasions, losing vision and hearing a loud buzz in my ears for several seconds. It was obvious my brain and blood were starving for some simple starches and sugars.

Ever since then I've taken an opposing stance to extremes in any direction. I think extremes are okay in short 'test phase' durations because they allow you to eliminate variables (like when trying to determine an allergy) but the long term goal should be to incorporate a broader selection and view.

[13WaysToFeed]

So you're judging against high carb diet because of your failure with a low carb diet?
By all means promote what works for you and denounce what doesn't.
But I don't understand your need to slander something that you've never even tried.

[RawnieColeman]

So you're judging against high carb diet because of your failure with a low carb diet?
By all means promote what works for you and denounce what doesn't.
But I don't understand your need to slander something that you've never even tried.I lived high carb/lowfat all throughout high school when I wrestled. I was lethargic zombie 6 days a week. I've seen firsthand the difference in personalities of a dozen healthy guys go from peppy and energetic to miserable, irritable sluggish cretins for the duration of the wrestling season. After our final season match, we would all go to the local pub and set up a scale and see how much weight we could put on in a single meal. The record I think was 14 pounds.

Low-carb for long periods of time sucks, but low-fat/hi-carb sucks even worse. Also, I wouldn't exactly say I failed at low-carb diets, as each time I tried them I lost more than 30 pounds. The problem is sustaining those results after the inevitable rebound set's in. With low fat diets, you rebound hardcore towards the fatty foods, and with low carb of course the opposite, either way there's going to be some backlash. Which is why I don't promote extremism anymore.

If you're interested to catch up on some easy to read scientific facts on the bodies essential sugars you can check it out here:

http://www.glyconutrient.biz/index.html

They're called glyconutrients, there are 8 in total, and fructose is not one of them.

[Non]

I lived high carb/lowfat all throughout high school when I wrestled. I was lethargic zombie 6 days a week. I've seen firsthand the difference in personalities of a dozen healthy guys go from peppy and energetic to miserable, irritable sluggish cretins for the duration of the wrestling season. After our final season match, we would all go to the local pub and set up a scale and see how much weight we could put on in a single meal. The record I think was 14 pounds.

Low-carb for long periods of time sucks, but low-fat/hi-carb sucks even worse. Also, I wouldn't exactly say I failed at low-carb diets, as each time I tried them I lost more than 30 pounds. The problem is sustaining those results after the inevitable rebound set's in. With low fat diets, you rebound hardcore towards the fatty foods, and with low carb of course the opposite, either way there's going to be some backlash. Which is why I don't promote extremism anymore.

If you're interested to catch up on some easy to read scientific facts on the bodies essential sugars you can check it out here:

http://www.glyconutrient.biz/index.html

They're called glyconutrients, there are 8 in total, and fructose is not one of them.

I'm sorry but how do yuo explain then a male's need of fructose in semen production :P

It's interesting though. There was a LFRV male who's video I saw, and it was all about his loss of sex drive being on this diet.

Though that doesn't really say much because a person can still be having all nutrients necessary for a healthy libido but not be in the 'extremes' of aggression and violence that many people in this society are today.

[13WaysToFeed]

I lived high carb/lowfat all throughout high school when I wrestled. I was lethargic zombie 6 days a week. I've seen firsthand the difference in personalities of a dozen healthy guys go from peppy and energetic to miserable, irritable sluggish cretins for the duration of the wrestling season. After our final season match, we would all go to the local pub and set up a scale and see how much weight we could put on in a single meal. The record I think was 14 pounds.

I find it hard to believe that you and the other dozen were on a raw vegan high carb low fat diet and experienced this. Is this the case? Or are you talking about SAD high carb low fat?

[climbing]

So you're judging against high carb diet because of your failure with a low carb diet?
By all means promote what works for you and denounce what doesn't.
But I don't understand your need to slander something that you've never even tried.

1) What makes you think we haven't tried it?

2) What makes you think we've failed at low carb? I just said that I tend to thrive with higher fat/low carb. How is that "failing"?

[RawnieColeman]

It's interesting though. There was a LFRV male who's video I saw, and it was all about his loss of sex drive being on this diet.That's common from what I hear, the body needs fat to make hormones, specifically cholesterol. Apart from avocado's I dunno too many veggies that have it.

edit: Sorry, avocado's do no have cholesterol, they are one of the few that have saturated fat though. Fruit's and vegetables do not contain cholesterol. The body can manufacture it's own cholesterol, but it needs fat to do so.

[Non]

hm.

I seem to be mistaken. Fructose is not what makes up 60% of semen. It's just a major component and absence of it would be abnormal. Fructose gives the energy to the sperm ie motility.

So some level of fructose is necessary.

[sport]

Fruit's and vegetables do not contain cholesterol. The body can manufacture it's own cholesterol, but it needs fat to do so.
I do not know of any fruit or veg that does not contain fat.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I've been studying nutrition and myself for 30 years and have lived over twice that long and what I've found is, what someone says and what's true.... well, not always the same.
Haha, very true. At the end of the day the clinical research and science speaks more volume than just general chatter.



I don't know where you're getting your information yet, if someone wanted to take the time to dispute it, pretty sure they could find resources to do so. Doug Graham is one.
Doug has interesting theories, but does the science support what he is saying?


Life without fruit is like a day without sunshine.
lt kinda is isn't it. l like some fruit everyday too.


Everything in balance...
Yes. More of some things and less of other things.


I tend to unsubscribe to anything/anyone who starts stating that "THIS WILL HARM YOU" regarding raw foods. I prefer a more gentle balanced outlook on food and life...

Tomorrow or the next day i'll try and present the science of raw. Lots of fancy theories here on the forum, but what is the current science and clinical research saying.

[Revvell]

Haha, very true. At the end of the day the clinical research and science speaks more volume than just general chatter.



Especially if one's "clinical research" is done on oneself. ALL research can be and is often disputed by someone else's research. If it doesn't "work" for me, it doesn't "work" for me no matter what someone else says or the research "proves".

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Especially if one's "clinical research" is done on oneself.
The clinical research l am talking about is a feat that has never been done by anyone else in the world before, it is clinical research done on approximately 250,000 patients done over a 55 year period. Not done on "oneself", but done on quarter of a million people. + if you are using some of the finest scientific and medical minds in the country and some of the best million dollar cutting edge machinery to do in depth body analysis and healing, then that stands for alot. There is no fancy theories here, most has been learned from trial and error, and the understanding of human bodies has been greatly enhanced over the decades. How can one compete with that! These people don't make near as many guesses anymore, much of what they say these days is heavily backed up in science now.



ALL research can be and is often disputed by someone else's research.
All? What about research showing a plants nutrition after being taken out of the ground. lf the testing is done, can that be disputed if the testing is done properly?

Or how about testing how much fructose a person absorbs, or how much vitamin A a person absorbs...surely there can't be disagreement over that, the science has been developed for testing these things.

Sure research can say different things due to different ways in which population samples are set up and allowances for statistical error and all that, but what about the proper science of nutrition and testing body functioning, how can much of that be disputed with the technology we have today? You reckon blood analysis is meanlingless? Of course it's not, it's established science if the absorption rates are taken into account. You reckon when medical doctors and scientists see a badly functioning pancreas that they don't recognise it and see the associated problems of it in patients when they check the bloodwork and other such things? Of course they do. The science l will bring up can't be disputed, it shows what is happening in patients real for all to see.

And Revell...when l bring up the problems scientifically shown with fruit and sugar consumption by nearly all modern day individuals (no theories, but concrete scientific and medical proof of the problems), then there is going to be nothing to dispute. These people aren't fruit haters, everyone loves fruit, it's just that most people can't eat more than 5% average on it in the diet. How do we know this? Because of blood tests showing blood sugar problems and how the pancreas reacts (most people aren't even aware that they have blood sugar problems and have a faulty pancreas, but they do because it has been observed in MOST of the so called healthy and unhealthy people who have visited the institute over the decades...how could it not be with all the high sugar high fat foods we have these days). Healthy people can eat up to 15% of diet in fruit, but most people are recommended to have 5% at most. These figures aren't plucked out of thin air Revell...this has been something refined over many decades and the science can back it up now. Go over 5% and the blood starts going loopy and the pancreas misbehaves etc, they see this in thousands of patients and are now in a great position to lay down afew strong recommendations for eating for weakened constitutions [which most of us under 80 have according to these folks].

l am not here to win an argument or be the all knowing, l am just an amateur too like everyone here. All l want to do is try and provide the fact from theory.



If it doesn't "work" for me, it doesn't "work" for me no matter what someone else says or the research "proves".
That is a fair comment, people like different things.

[Revvell]

The clinical research l am talking about is a feat that has never been done by anyone else in the world before, it is clinical research done on approximately 250,000 patients done over a 55 year period. Not done on "oneself", but done on quarter of a million people. + if you are using some of the finest scientific and medical minds in the country and some of the best million dollar cutting edge machinery to do in depth body analysis and healing, then that stands for alot.

Not to me. Moving on.

[Non]

it's apparent that many people in the raw food community just don't hold an open mind even in the face of logic.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

it's apparent that many people in the raw food community just don't hold an open mind even in the face of logic.
My thoughts exactly. l was only speaking to a friend about this the other day, it is notorious in the vegan community. Many like to live in their fantasy world and don't want their bubble burst. So be it.

[Raw Angel Mom]

I just scrolled quickly from other replies from this thread and one thing that caught my attention was the concern about the amount of calories.

I feel that it is wrong to go with calories because, you got plenty of them if you go for junk food but still your body will never be satisfy.

I resonate totally with Brendan Braser when he suggested that we need to go with the energy. You cannot go wrong with all the energy that fruits can give you.

But why argue and debate. Let's experiment instead. If you do exercise, try this. Do one week fruits up to lunch then a large green salad with good fat at night.
The next week, try the raw food that you feel is best for you in the morning and let us know how you feel in both week.

Personally fruits, energized me and i noticed not to be as hungry through the day.

Enjoy

[Non]

yes,after your advice I started eating more fruits. Though I wouldn't eat much fruit all at once because I dont want to spike my carbs. I have to have a small amount with a large salad. If I have more than enough fruits I'll experience what feels like... a damp web of gunk moving in my digestive system.... perhaps due to fats still being present in my digestive system. That's a reason why I've been lowering my fat intake to a more normal moderate intake no higher than 40% of calories so I can enjoy fruits.

If it wasn't for fats though through nuts/seeds I would have to be eating a lot more than I can really afford just to get enough protein, and calories. Fats are concentrated forms of calories and yes protein, more than any other food source per volume. As long as sprouted of course. I can't even have too many sprouted legumes without digestive issues as gas.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I just scrolled quickly from other replies from this thread and one thing that caught my attention was the concern about the amount of calories.

I feel that it is wrong to go with calories because, you got plenty of them if you go for junk food but still your body will never be satisfy.

I resonate totally with Brendan Braser when he suggested that we need to go with the energy. You cannot go wrong with all the energy that fruits can give you.

But why argue and debate. Let's experiment instead. If you do exercise, try this. Do one week fruits up to lunch then a large green salad with good fat at night.
The next week, try the raw food that you feel is best for you in the morning and let us know how you feel in both week.

Personally fruits, energized me and i noticed not to be as hungry through the day.

Enjoy

l am giving Dr Morse a good go and studying him, but so far he is not resonating with me at all. l will give him more time...it's best l keep open minded until l have studied him enough. He makes me laugh and seems to be a very nice man.

l can't say that fruit energises me. The things which energise me are the foods highest in sunlight and amino acids.

Regards.

[RawnieColeman]

Healthy people can eat up to 15% of diet in fruit, but most people are recommended to have 5% at most. These figures aren't plucked out of thin air Revell...this has been something refined over many decades and the science can back it up now. Go over 5% and the blood starts going loopy and the pancreas misbehaves etc I've found this to be true myself. After tracking my diet through fitday.com I achieved the best results eating about 15% of total cals. from carbs per day. Ten percent from oats, and about five percent from bananas.

[Raw Angel Mom]

l am giving Dr Morse a good go and studying him, but so far he is not resonating with me at all. l will give him more time...it's best l keep open minded until l have studied him enough. He makes me laugh and seems to be a very nice man.

l can't say that fruit energises me. The things which energise me are the foods highest in sunlight and amino acids.

Regards.

You know Mr Raw, maybe according the area you are from, this is the food that you need. Going with fruits or water fast, is when you reach a plateau and you want to go deeper. I did a two days water fast and it was amazing, when i don't need to drive, i will do longer. For the fruits, it is best pick from the tree directly. The fruits here are mainly imported and i have to be careful and picky. If i would live in Florida, i probably could do a 100% fruits. I did notice great change in me by doing more fruits and adjusting my diet. Doing only greens didn't do the deep tissus healing for me, with the fruits, i can see things moving now. No more constipation. Dr. Morse for me was the perfect person to take me to another level of healing. I am not our of the wood but i can see the light now.

I will be doing more spout as you mention in our winter but more in the evening. This is what works for me.

How is your health issue going?

All the best

[Non]

Rawnie, 15% carbs is totally different from 15% fruit in the diet. I dont know if that's actually healthy. I wonder how the bowel movements are going. There also needs to be sources of soluble fiber just as there are insoluble.

Mr. Raw how do you accurate measure percentage of any given food, without counting calories as you suggest one shdn't eat more than 5 % fruit? A lot of vegetables are classified botanically as fruit, and they have a wide variety of nutrients not just fructose.

I'd like to know because there are some health gurus giving percentages of foods rather than calories.. when every food has different density of nutrients per volume. Is it by density or volume? I know Gabriel Cousens talks about volume in his books but I have since stopped trying to guess about what that means, and just follow no more than 40% calories from fat.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I'd like to know because there are some health gurus giving percentages of foods rather than calories.. when every food has different density of nutrients per volume. Is it by density or volume?
% by weight.


Fats are concentrated forms of calories and yes protein, more than any other food source per volume.
By far the best way to get fats is getting fatty acids (not concentrated fats) from sprouted seeds, sprouted nuts and algaes. The best way to get amino acids (not concentrated protein) by consuming juiced sprouted greens, sea weeds and algaes. lt's a brilliant way to eat.

Anyway, scientifically raw nuts have been classified as a 3 star food because it is medium level sunshine food with mid level life force energy. Green leafy vegetables are a 3 star food also. Sprouted beans and sprouted greens are 4 star foods. And sprouted grass, algae and sea weeds are 5 star foods naturally.

[Non]

even sprouted nuts?

well eating the way do sure sounds expensive and time consuming..ie you kinda need to live in a community for raw foodists or have your own garden. I think i read you work at the hippocrates institute?

I gotta go there one day. I live about an hr away from there.

So how many stars are fruits? Where can I find this star foods list?

[sport]

Anyway, scientifically raw nuts have been classified as a 3 star food because it is medium level sunshine food with mid level life force energy. Green leafy vegetables are a 3 star food also. Sprouted beans and sprouted greens are 4 star foods. And sprouted grass, algae and sea weeds are 5 star foods naturally.
Can you tell me who has classified them in this way and for what purpose.

[Non]

I saw somewhere that fruits have the highest vibration. Whatever that means. While unsprouted nuts/seeds are almost zero.

Does that necessarily mean unsprouted nuts are always bad? Perhaps we need some lower vibrations to stay grounded. Might not be good if you want to turn into pure Qi though and meditate yourself into ascension. :P

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

even sprouted nuts?
l am not sure where sprouted nuts fit into it all l don't think they were tested because of their rarity.


well eating the way do sure sounds expensive and time consuming..
The sprouts aren't expensive if you buy in bulk, but it is time consuming but not oeverly so. lt is a lifestyle well worth it.


I think i read you work at the hippocrates institute?
l wish l did, it would be an honor.


I gotta go there one day. I live about an hr away from there.
You are very very lucky. Why not go there for a meal. They have public meals available on certain days.


So how many stars are fruits? Where can I find this star foods list?
Fruits are quite interesting in that they range from 2 star - 5 star.

Eg, apples, pears, rasberries, black berries etc are 2 star foods. Currants, grapes and tomatoes are 3 star foods. Citrus, kiwi, plums, melons, peaches etc are 4 star foods. Tropical fruits like pine-apple, papaya, star fruit and mango are 5 star foods. But remember that many fruits don't have the vibration for long so they become 0 star foods very quickly.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Can you tell me who has classified them in this way and for what purpose.
Dr Brian Clement has worked with the highly regarded scientist Dr Valerie Hunt from UCLA. What she did was measure the electrical frequency of the foods and the effects that the elctrical charge had on the frequency of healthy cells. So Brian and Valerie togeather worked out a chart that would show foods which had the most sunlight and vibration, hence the most health giving properties to the human body.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I saw somewhere that fruits have the highest vibration. Whatever that means. While unsprouted nuts/seeds are almost zero.
As l said above, fruits have vibrations all across the spectrum, but once it's picked from the tree that rapidly diminishes. So fruit from the store isn't really fruit at all because it is [in mopst cases] picked at least slightly unripe and ends up diminishing the bodies life force (that's why people who live on high diets of store bought and farmers market fruit end up deficient and crashing on their diets in the long term). Even assuming it was somehow possible to get fruit to the markets or shops that was properly ripe, much of it still wouldn't be health giving unless it was eaten within a week or two of being picked. After 3 weeks it is way too late. l find eating fruit straight off the tree is energising, but 30 minutes later it doesn't have that original power. So yes, fruits bought from shops and farmers markets are usually a disaster, and Brian Clement's testing on these folks has proven this in thousands of cases. But you tell people these common sense things and they don't want to know the reality...they want to live in a fantasy world and think everything is all good. Thing is also...we get folks that say, `hey look at me, my skin is clear and l look good and l eat fruit bought from shops'; now..they might be nicely detoxed and healthy looking at the moment, but what about when the nutritional deficiencies start rearing there ugly heads down the track (they always do), then disaster is only a matter of time. Dr Brain Clement tested thousands of these `so called' health natural hygenists and found that 90% were deficient in B12, and 50% were deficient in vitamin A, and a large percentage were deficient in vitamin D. That may seem like nothing to worry aboput, but being deficient in just those nutrients leads to major health problems and explains why most natural hygenists end up going back to animals products (either admitting it or doing it on the sly).

All l want to do is get to the truth on matters, not live in fantasy land.

Ripe fruit is fruit that is ready to eat that day or the next day at the latest. So buying this type of fruit at shops is impossible (too risky for the seller buying this way, + it has to be transported), and for farmers markets it is not impossible but highly unlikely also. lf you want to eat fruit you really need to grow it yourself like folks did in the old days, or live in places where neighbours will give you fresh fruit straight from their trees. Buying from the shops is not fooling your body...it might look like fruit, but it doesn't mean it functions as fruit.

Raw dehydrated foods are a 1 star food.


Does that necessarily mean unsprouted nuts are always bad? Perhaps we need some lower vibrations to stay grounded. Might not be good if you want to turn into pure Qi though and meditate yourself into ascension. :P
Unsprouted nuts draw on the body because they have concentrated fats, carbs and proteins so the body waste unnecessary enzymes converting these things to simplier forms. lf nuts were sprouted then the enzymes in the food would have already converted the protein into amino acids and the fats into fatty acids and saved the body time and expense doing this. So l wouldn't say unsprouted nuts are bad, but they aren't exactly great either. But if you are going to have nuts, try having them with digestive enzymes and even soak or sprout them.

Eating from the highest grade foods like sprouts, algaes, grasses and sea weeds keeps you very very grounded. This is my experience. No airy fairy stuff with this diet, but it is a highly spiritual diet...it profoundly changes the mind.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Here Brian Clement (with scientific backing) states that eating three week old fruit and veggies is rubbish because the electromagnetic frequency has gone. That’s why the natural hygene diet kills you and the people promoting this crazy diet can't be taken seriously anymore (actually, Brian's words are alot harsher). This is why sprouts are the best, it’s fresh.

see from :36 – 2:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXc0GcZm9ug&feature=related

see 4:51 - 5:48 = why Natural hygene diet of fruit and veggies doesn’t work (nutritional deficiencies) unless you grow your own. They are: B12 (90% of people), vitamin D, vitamin A (50% of people) deficient.

+

7:44 – 7:56 = many natural hygienists have blood sugar problems and will end up with diabetes if they continue along their path.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0fL7MQON5A&feature=related

l don't want to cause fights here, l just want folks to wake up. There is high failure rates in raw because people believe the baloney written in books.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Brian Clement puts a challenge to the raw food leaders with high fruit diets. + he talks about high fruit and disease as seen through high powered microscopes. + he mentions how raw food fruit leaders mislead the public.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JEZ3XPDwYQ&feature=related

Revell: here is your chance to prove Brian wrong. See from 5:16 - 5:22 in link above.

[Non]

Yep, I am in total agreement with you. I need to pick up some tips from you on sprouting, though I live in a cramped apartment with another so it might take some effort.

It seems you sprout a lot of the legumes. For now I'm trying to moderate those as much as possible since I'm following Gabriel Cousen's phase 1 diet. That means high greens, sprouts algae/seaweed, veggies, sprouted nuts, minimal low glycemic fruits, peas, and moderately the legumes only of the mung and adzuki sprouts. So yea.. which seeds could I focus on (cheap) that I could eat a lot of that would fall in these?

The only 3 sprouts I can think of which care not legumes, or nuts, but are more veggie like are the alfalfa, sunflower, and broccoli. I'm looking for sprouts that aren't legumes or nuts/seeds.

Well you can include the long mung bean sprouts too there. Can yuo eat sesame seeds after they've been sprouted fairly large?

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

lt wouldn't surprise me if most fruit and vegetables bought from the organic shop and farmers markets (i've seen and bought them) are between 0 - 1 star foods. And raw fooders wonder why they are so tired after a while on the diet. The thing is...fruit and vegetables can be eaten along with nuts and seeds and dehydrated bread if you desire those foods, but l reckon you should make sure your greens are fresh and that you include lots of sprouts and grasses and algae in the diet to make up for the other low quality raw foods.

So yeah, l am not saying to avoid certain foods (nuts, seeds, fruit and vegies are important to many people), l am just saying that we need to balance it out and not neglect the more important foods, ie the high sunlight foods high in electromagnetic vibration.

An example of a so called good diet go horribly wrong
And then there was a diet called the `hallelujah diet' that was strongly natural hygene based. l warned George Malkemus on stage during the 90's that it was going to be a disaster in front of 1,000 of his followers. He was backed in a corner and was caught out big time (l am sure he still has nightmartes of that night). Anyway...years later there was 141 surveys done to find why people were getting sick on the diet and it found that most were deficient in protein (52% had muscle wastage), calcium and B12. And this was from a diet that promoted lots of juicing which included a daily regimen of 64 ounces of fresh vegetable juice consisting of 50% carrot and the other 50% greens like kale, chard, celery, spinach, cucumber, and zucchini.

l'll try and get back to this thread another time.

[EscapeArtist]

Thanks Mr. Raw for all of the videos and information you posted. I'm having trouble getting off of fruit and I'm very sensitive to sugar, as well as an addict. It helps a lot

[Revvell]

So, yesterday we went grocery shopping. Got some fresh dates, pears, grapes, apples, bananas, plums, tomatoes ~ and greens. Feelin' fine!

[Non]

11/19/2011 ALIVE WITH GABRIEL - HOW ANYONE CAN TRHIVE ON A 30%-50% FAT DIET
http://www.gabrielcousens.com/DRCOUSENS/LIVEBROADCASTS/tabid/1968/vw/3/ItemID/702/d/20111119/language/en-US/Default.aspx

[Non]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-V3q5Aob3A&feature=colike

[Raw Angel Mom]

Ok, maybe this will be my last time to post on this topic but again , i was scrolling down and i need to point out a few things.

Dr. Morse doesn't PROMOTE SUPPLEMENT except his herb and even then, he made suggestion that we can get another brand or even make them ourself. He is all about service-service-service

Dr. Cousens, dr. Brian Clement, David Wolfe etc...... sell the idea that you cannot be healthy unless you supplement $$$$$$$$$$

If the plan of dr. Morse works, they would go broke because we wouldn't need to supplement

Dr. Morse doesn't argue with eating food that isn't fresh. He even experiment with alfafa sprout and he encourage people to have them for their cleanse but without question, fruits are on top.

Yes, if you live in an area where you cannot have fresh fruits, sprouting is great. On winter, i will go with sprout too but without omitting my fruits, i so love them and they help me so much. I bless my food and give thanks to mother earth.

Dr. Morse doesn't go with scientific or study, he goes with all of his over 100 thousands case. This is evidence, you cannot go wrong with that. By the way, he has client coming from the hippocrate institute. If their program work 100%, why their client doesn't heal fully?

Anyway, this is wrong to put down either dr. Clement, dr Cousens or dr. Morse. They each serve a great purpose.

You go with your body, did you manage to heal all of your issues? For myself no, i didn't, this is why, i am digging deeper. I previously was following the hippocrate institute. It gives me a clean blood but i am still dealing with problem. I feel in my heart, we need to look into prioritizing the food that is available in our local area. Right now, for me it is squash and pumpkin. So i am having this as a dinner dish.

Anyway, may i kindly suggest that we stop creating a debate about fruits and to inspire others instead. Meaning, you can share your opinion without imposing and try to win a debate. If you don't resonate with something you can express your concern, but please honour people who had great experience with fruits. Two young people crossed Australia on fruits and Dan McDonald crossed also the state or raw food and many of his last days where he performed incredible distance were on fruits only. If fruits would be so awful, he wouldn't be able to do over 100 miles a day.

Food for talk. Let go your fears to eat fruits, experiment first and see for yourself. Make your own experience versus engorging someone else opinion even if they are PHD or MD. The truth is always in our heart, just listen to what resonate.

Because we live in so many different area, we cannot qualify to say that eating a certain way is the only way, because i feel mother earth is wise and she provides the perfect food for your area.

Without question sprouting is alive and fresh.

All is well

[Non]

Dr. David Jubb is a new one I have to check out. He seems to be in support of fruit but more of the low glycemic type. Seems to accept more fruit than Brian Clement, but perhaps he has reached a later stage in the transition from SAD to a highly refined and detoxed body that can handle more fruit, and he probably supports more wild fruit than the hybrids, and moderate but not extremely high fruit. he exercises quite a bit I would assume too, a person who eats a lot of fruit has to exercise quite a bit to balance out the blood sugar levels so it doesn't cause extreme ups and downs.

I think Gabriel Cousens also accepts more fruit than Brian Clement would too. I haven't really read much about Jubb's way but he might just be in line with Gabriel Cousens' philosophy too.

[Non]

here's a different perspective by David Jubb:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfT79auqAUw

Also has an interesting perspective on extreme high fiber foods.

[Non]

more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=QX0N--EeSBs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEbeqMFHTQ8&feature=related

[Non]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZaK2xj__xg

[EscapeArtist]

Love love love gabriel cousens
Hey non, you say you're following the rainbow live food cuisine? How long have you been on it, and how has it gone for you? (Or if not long, can you let me know how it goes once you feel centered on it??)

[Non]

Ok, maybe this will be my last time to post on this topic but again , i was scrolling down and i need to point out a few things.

Dr. Morse doesn't PROMOTE SUPPLEMENT except his herb and even then, he made suggestion that we can get another brand or even make them ourself. He is all about service-service-service

Dr. Cousens, dr. Brian Clement, David Wolfe etc...... sell the idea that you cannot be healthy unless you supplement $$$$$$$$$$

If the plan of dr. Morse works, they would go broke because we wouldn't need to supplement

Dr. Morse doesn't argue with eating food that isn't fresh. He even experiment with alfafa sprout and he encourage people to have them for their cleanse but without question, fruits are on top.

Yes, if you live in an area where you cannot have fresh fruits, sprouting is great. On winter, i will go with sprout too but without omitting my fruits, i so love them and they help me so much. I bless my food and give thanks to mother earth.

Dr. Morse doesn't go with scientific or study, he goes with all of his over 100 thousands case. This is evidence, you cannot go wrong with that. By the way, he has client coming from the hippocrate institute. If their program work 100%, why their client doesn't heal fully?

Anyway, this is wrong to put down either dr. Clement, dr Cousens or dr. Morse. They each serve a great purpose.

You go with your body, did you manage to heal all of your issues? For myself no, i didn't, this is why, i am digging deeper. I previously was following the hippocrate institute. It gives me a clean blood but i am still dealing with problem. I feel in my heart, we need to look into prioritizing the food that is available in our local area. Right now, for me it is squash and pumpkin. So i am having this as a dinner dish.

Anyway, may i kindly suggest that we stop creating a debate about fruits and to inspire others instead. Meaning, you can share your opinion without imposing and try to win a debate. If you don't resonate with something you can express your concern, but please honour people who had great experience with fruits. Two young people crossed Australia on fruits and Dan McDonald crossed also the state or raw food and many of his last days where he performed incredible distance were on fruits only. If fruits would be so awful, he wouldn't be able to do over 100 miles a day.

Food for talk. Let go your fears to eat fruits, experiment first and see for yourself. Make your own experience versus engorging someone else opinion even if they are PHD or MD. The truth is always in our heart, just listen to what resonate.

Because we live in so many different area, we cannot qualify to say that eating a certain way is the only way, because i feel mother earth is wise and she provides the perfect food for your area.

Without question sprouting is alive and fresh.

All is well

Yes I agree, that's the only things I find wrong about Cousens but I see it as just lack of oversight.

And I mean really vitamin b12 supplementation is necessary for everyone. The only other major supplement he pretty much suggests is "required" is the omega 3s DHA and EPA from algae supplements. IMO after watching a video from a raw vegan that pretty much debunks the need for DHA supplementation, I now believe the body can produce as much DHA as it needs as long as the ratio of omega 3s to 6s stay from 1:4 to 1:1. His books are just highly scientific so he might recommend supplements for those who cannot find any other route through whole foods and proper lifestyle but the only 2 supplements I've seen he suggests is vit. b12 and DHA. Vitamin D tho highly recommended for those who dont get enough through lifestyle choices. That's it. The rest are just supplements he suggests can make it easier but aren't really required as long as you eat properly and have a healthy lifestyle.

[Non]

Yes to be honest with you I haven't been as committed as I wish I could be but I will for sure be I'm confident. Still on phase 1. It's been a process for me needing to perfect the diet and most importantly the resources, mainly information though as to what works and what doesn't.

But I can tell you I was 1 whole month on phase 1 and I felt awesome. I feel awesome on it when I'm "in the flow" so to speak. When I mess up that's when I see most of the imbalances, struggling with old habits, and excuses. Also I had to lower my fat intake because I calculated just how much I've been having as opposed to the other veggies I've been neglecting. I'm now looking into tips from the good old Hippocrates institute on how to make it more sustainable with sprouting and seaweed. The Marche method of sprouting, David Jubb etc. But Gabriel Cousens' diet is my foundation definitely. It was what made me really begin to see just how good the raw food diet is supposed to be.

Oh yea, forget to mention: I gain muscle while losing weight, I am more calm, water retention is gone now. I am able to stand blandness in my foods, with less salt/sweet, etc. Apparently it's also my kapha constitution to avoid excess sweets, fats, and salt, while bitter foods are very much healing for me. Being that way I also figure that since I do quite a bit of exercise and also stress important on protein, I eat lots of greens, sprouts (will be my goal anyway), veggies, seaweeds, small amounts of low glycemic fruits here and there (equivalent to the size of 2-3 peices of fruit such as apple or pear) of course with my greens and veggies.

Apparently though I'm taking more tips from Hippocrates now stressing more sprouts and making way for more carbs for me because all those excesses in vegetables wasn't really giving me optimum sustainability. David Jubb helping on that front as well with more technical detail.

It's not bad, it really is not bad.

[Non]

There will be people who say that sprouts are not natural. Fruit are more natural yes, for monkeys that might be true. Just because they were part of our ancient ancestry does not mean we cannot act in a higher evolved way and in fact because of evolution (and also "devolution" to cooked, unsprouted foods and meat) our bodies have even changed so that we might require different foods. Ie, instead of loading up on extremely fiberous veggies like the chimps might do along with fruits (and they all have bellies too) we might be better off with still nutrient rich greens which aren't necessarily goitrogenic. We also have farming, and we can grind our foods for palatability, or blend, or juice, we can sprout, we can make soups, etc. Not that perhaps eating them in their natural state is not optimal but at least during the transition we can enjoy and in fact it might be required for digestive purposes.

All this is totally a natural part of our evolution. Perhaps moving toward the optimal diet is nature's way of telling us to stop being so "primitive"/"unevolved" and create peace, and sustainability in the world, and consciously grow food, which might require agriculture or living in sustainable communities, instead of being scavengers.

[Non]

hehe.

Alright but I'm not saying fruit is detrimental. For a lot of people fruit can be detrimental. Im not sure whether it's the glycemic index (while forgetting the glycemic load), or the fact that too much fructose all at once can be harmful,but of course in excess anything can be detrimental. I just see a lot of fruitarians that just don't even think there can ever be an excess of fruit and that's where I disagree.

For some people to be able to consume more fruit it might require a cleanse, especially when one's immune system has been compromised, or digestive, or with cancer, or any other problem sometimes low sugar can help in the end. Besides that, if you read The Zone diet, which is prettymuch based on the same macronutrient ratio that our ancestors thrived on in the paleo diet. So Gabriel Cousens' goal is more similar to a paleo raw vegetarian that keeps the carbs moderate and the fats a bit higher than low fat.

ok there obviously needs to be more research. But obviously making fruit the absolute main source of calories to eat is just not normal nor is it recommended. It's no problem if you just eat normal amount of fruits.

[Revvell]

Fruit are more natural yes, for monkeys that might be true. Just because they were part of our ancient ancestry....

You ever see a monkey turn into a human? If not, when did that stop and why? What did monkey evolve from? Maybe humans came first and evolved into monkeys?

[Raw Angel Mom]

Yes I agree, that's the only things I find wrong about Cousens but I see it as just lack of oversight.

And I mean really vitamin b12 supplementation is necessary for everyone. The only other major supplement he pretty much suggests is "required" is the omega 3s DHA and EPA from algae supplements. IMO after watching a video from a raw vegan that pretty much debunks the need for DHA supplementation, I now believe the body can produce as much DHA as it needs as long as the ratio of omega 3s to 6s stay from 1:4 to 1:1. His books are just highly scientific so he might recommend supplements for those who cannot find any other route through whole foods and proper lifestyle but the only 2 supplements I've seen he suggests is vit. b12 and DHA. Vitamin D tho highly recommended for those who dont get enough through lifestyle choices. That's it. The rest are just supplements he suggests can make it easier but aren't really required as long as you eat properly and have a healthy lifestyle.


I understand the danger to be low in B12 and anyone who is low, i supplemented and it helped me. The downside with supplementing B12 is affect your Parathyroid negatively, this was an eye opener. I am working on healing my GI track for good and get my body working as it should be in the first place.

Here is something about fact. Woman that start walking AFTER 7 months on fruits and herbs. http://www.youtube.com/user/robertmorsend#p/search/1/zy-UM8JWl8U

Here is what dr. Morse explain about this condition. Now he isn't talking about study or research or fiction but about what he witnessed, about fact.

http://www.youtube.com/user/robertmorsend#p/search/1/zy-UM8JWl8U

I feel that we need the teaching of everyone, that we need to take and leave. Dr. Ann Wingmore reverse her gray hair and Dr. Morse has a beautiful skin and no wrinkle at his age. So perhaps, we need the fruits to heal and the greens to charge us with mineral and keep our ph alkaline. If i would have a severe condition, i would plan a vacation in a tropical place and eat 100% fruits where i would know they are fresh picked and ripe.

All is well

[Non]

Well, you need the greens. You can't be 100 % fruit only.

But yea as for vit. b12 supplementation... I guess through fermented products would be the only way to get it. How does vit. b12 supp. affect your parathyroid negatively? Where did you hear of this? I thought it would only help.

I mean the only thing I can see where it might cause a problem is that it further affirms our lack of ability to be able to convert b12 naturally from precursors, which obviously we don't have to try to do if we don't get it.

I mean perhaps there is a way to restore that ability in us like other animals do have. I read some people think we can absorb it through our feet, since it's soil we can walk barefoot and absorb it. But that might require a lot of barefooted walking. The other is that Doug Graham suggested it travels in air so we can breathe it. That's not likely, unless of course you are outside all day?

Not enough research of course.

Maybe it requires specific enzymes which we dont have or are only to be found through fermentation of b12 analogue foods like seaweed? or of beansprouts?

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I understand the danger to be low in B12 and anyone who is low, i supplemented and it helped me. The downside with supplementing B12 is affect your Parathyroid negatively, this was an eye opener.
l am hardly surprised actually. 99.9% of all B12 supplementation is so toxic because it is laboritory made. lt is extremely rare to find a natural bacterial based B12 supplement, but they are out there. Also: it has been concluded after 30 years of experiements of folks at HHI that there is NO reliable food that will definitely fill a vegan's B12 needs, both Dr Coisens and Dr Clement agree. You can eat sea weeds, grasses, sprouts, algaes, fermented foods, eat dirt etc all day and you can still be deficient. Some will get enough from these foods, but many won't.

l take the B12 from Hippocrates. There is simply no better according to people in the know, that's why HHI developed it.




I mean perhaps there is a way to restore that ability in us like other animals do have. I read some people think we can absorb it through our feet, since it's soil we can walk barefoot and absorb it. But that might require a lot of barefooted walking.
Yeah, but what about in built up areas where there are no floods and natural occurances to renew the soil. l believe that our soils are not what they used to be because of mans intervention. Some soils probably have good B12, but many exhausted soils probably wouldn't.


The other is that Doug Graham suggested it travels in air so we can breathe it. That's not likely, unless of course you are outside all day?

Hahaha, if only it was that easy. Certainly not usful advice for most people.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

A good friend also tells me that the certified organic fruit is a scam because of four chemical fertilizers the fruit farmers are now secretly using. lf l understand it, the organics have been taken over by the pharmaceutical industry. l have been now advised to completely ditch fruit and only eat from backyard trees. l also hear that the certified organic label is going to continue to lower its standards and use a whole host of various nasty chemicals in the foods in the near future.

Also....an insider has also told me of the Safeway/Coles supermarket scam that has been going on in the last 15 years. ALL of the non organic fruit and vegetables sold at the two largest supermakets in Australia is irradiated and completely dead! This is a top secret practise and Safeway and Coles have joined forces togeather and use various warehouses across the country to carry out the irradiating practise. ln Victoria a warehouse in Clayton is used. The places that irradiate the foods might even be owned by both Coles and Safeway (l am not sure about that part of it).

[Aleesha Sattva]

Well I heard on Facebook that if you post "I love Unicorns" as your status that you'll receive a free unicorn in the mail within 14 days!

So it MUST be true!

[Non]

sigh. actually I rad somewhere that all raw food could be irradiated some day in the "near future" at the time, that was a long time ago, and by big media. ie "mainstream". Even nowadays there are many raw foods being irradiated, and GMO and they will say "all natural, organic".

[EscapeArtist]

Thanks non for your detailed reply! Helps a lot with my motivation. Our goals are very similar. "In the flow" Is exactly what I call the place where I want to be. The most I've gone on Phase 1 is 3 days! But the 3rd day I begin to get into that space where your whole body buzzes and you have such clarity of mind... I too am gravitating towards sprouting, to at least lower my fat to 30-50% for the day, and tomorrow am starting a phase 1-ish diet w/ sprouting. It's hard to choose that day to say "Today is the day" and eliminate the sugars.

Its so good to hear from somebody thinking the same path will work for them, I don't find a lot of raw fooders being into low-gi.
/Am going to look up David Jubb

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I too am gravitating towards sprouting,
You would be surprised how many people are starting to take up sprouting now. Me and a friend are getting alor of people into it now.



It's hard to choose that day to say "Today is the day" and eliminate the sugars.
l feel it's best not to pressure yourself into giving up sugars, you only do it when you are ready. Lots of sprouts, algaes and sea weeds and it will stabilise blood sugars and you will feel ready.



/Am going to look up David Jubb
David Jubb on radio one network is o.k. l don't agree with everything he says, but he is a smart fella that uses science to back much of what he says. No nonsense with Jubsy.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

dr. Brian Clement, ..... sell the idea that you cannot be healthy unless you supplement $$$$$$$$$$
Rough Raw Angel Mum...rough. Lets just talk about that for a moment.

lt has been found that 70% of folks visiting the institute tens of thousand if not over one hundred thousand people need a B12 supplement these days. lt has been found that soils are lacking quantities of many important minerals so folks are advised to supplement with algae and sea vegetables to make up for it. l agree with Dr Brian that in order to experience the best health we need to supplement with powerful whole foods. Dr Brian has been talking up chlorella for about 20 years, yet he has specially packaged the top brand and reduced the price by 2.5 times, so he can't be too money hungry.

lt's not just about what is in the blood, it is what a person absorbs, and it has been shown that even on the worlds most nutritious diet (Hippocrates diet), people can still come up short on nutrients during times of stress. So living in stressful modern day conditions l do believe we should do everything we can to keep on top of things and supplement on certain things.



By the way, he has client coming from the hippocrate institute. If their program work 100%, why their client doesn't heal fully?
Attitude is just if not more important than what you eat. Maybe the client didn't relate to the Hippocrates staff too well and wasn't feeling positive about the whole thing. Brian says many get well, but some people don't get well because they don't click/feel good about the program. Maybe the client couldn't follow the strict diet that Hippocrates teaches. Could be lots of reasons.

l don't want to come across as anti fruit, l am just not for store bought fruit. l am all for fresh fruit, but eaten in very limited quantities.

+ l don't want to be seen as trying to win an arguement (raw angel mum) because that is not my intention...it is impossible to win any arguments on this forum because people will still believe what they want to. All l wanted to do is point out what l see as real draw backs to certain ways of eating because you often don't see it pointed out on the internet very much. Hopefully it will get people thinking so they can do things abit better (health is important). Hopefully people don't get all scared...information is power.

[Non]

If you just ate fruit you would become deficient in many important vitamins/minerals which are only found in nuts/seeds in good quantity. Even greens don't have everything you would need at least in the quantity you would want.

You would seriously need to stuff yourself to an extreme not even possible perhaps to get the RDA of some of the vitamins/minerals.

[Non]

David Jubb on radio one network is o.k. l don't agree with everything he says, but he is a smart fella that uses science to back much of what he says. No nonsense with Jubsy.

I wonder what you dont agree with. I don't really have the time to listen to everything he says, but I'm interested in the stuff he has to say with thinking flower foods are the best. Probably of the veggies.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I wonder what you dont agree with.
Dr Jubb says that vegans overdo the wheatgrass juice and other greens end up getting sick. That's rediculous.

l am also abit iffy about the calcium - phosphorous ratio being 2.5 - 1. Hardly any plants in nature are in that balance, but Dr Jubb tried using science to prove that this is correct and suceeds in his experiement. The things is, you can't just isolate calcium and phosphorous because plants have other buffers that stop calcium withdrawl. l am sure l don't keep a ratio of 2.5 - 1, but my bones are still getting stronger. You just can't simplify the rules like Dr Jubb has in this case (Brian Clement makes a similar argument). l am very strict to keep the most favourable calcium - phosphorous ratio l can, but keeping the 2.5 - 1 is impossible.


but I'm interested in the stuff he has to say with thinking flower foods are the best. Probably of the veggies.
lt is fasinting about the flower foods. Yes, the vegies, but also great sprouts like buckwheat, sunflower, sesame, alfalfa, mung, quinoa, weeds and other foods. l now try to make many of the land foods l eat a flower food.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

If you just ate fruit you would become deficient in many important vitamins/minerals which are only found in nuts/seeds in good quantity.
That's why l believe fruit shouldn't be concentrated on as a food, it should be a top up. We need to concentrate on the sprouts, sea weeds and algaes to get those vital nutrients, especially in this day and age.


Even greens don't have everything you would need at least in the quantity you would want.
Yes, most greens (vegies) are a problem for many reasons, that's why l say they should be eaten sparingly. There is alot of logic to the arguments l put forth, l don't just say things for the heck of it.


You would seriously need to stuff yourself to an extreme not even possible perhaps to get the RDA of some of the vitamins/minerals.
The RDA's for vitamins and minerals are a scam. The RDA's were made by scientists with experimentation with synthetic nutrients only. Also, the RDA's were made very bias to favour animal products and underestimate the nutritional value of vegan foods so people would gravatate towards flesh foods and take laboritory made vitamin and mineral pills out of fear . Yes, it was a pharmaceutical con, so pay it no more attention. We only need a fraction of the RDA's on a sprout and aglae based diet according to one of Dr Brian Clement's extremely well researched books, and my experience shows that he is entirely correct, but naturally everyone is different so some people will need more of certain nutrients than others.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Mr. Raw, don't get me wrong about dr. Clement OR dr. Cousens. I have gratitude for both of them and respect their knowledge and everything they have done. They are wonderful to inspire other and it is all good. I respect anyone inspiring others to become at least vegan. You always have to discern and read between the line. I am not against doing greens or taking chlorella, i take it myself and give it to my daughter. I know it is a great source of nutrient and it also neutralize heavy metal. I am no longer convinced that i need to supplement in order to be healthy but i am convinced that I need to detox fully to be healthy period.

Louis Pasteur discovered the living organism in the milk and he is the one that came up with pasteurization now we both know that pasteurization simply kill the life force ALSO. Dr. Cousens discovered also the living organism in our blood steam and decided that we need to eliminate the fruits to be able to reset our body. I think his intention is good but so off just like Louis Pasteur, there is another solution to be healthy and i fully resonate with dr. Morse about doing deep tissue detoxification INSTEAD.

Dr. Morse is a different level of doing raw food and he understands your body AND how to heal it properly without using supplement only herbs and fruits.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Mr. Raw, don't get me wrong about dr. Clement OR dr. Cousens. I have gratitude for both of them and respect their knowledge and everything they have done. They are wonderful to inspire other and it is all good. I respect anyone inspiring others to become at least vegan. You always have to discern and read between the line. I am not against doing greens or taking chlorella, i take it myself and give it to my daughter. I know it is a great source of nutrient and it also neutralize heavy metal. I am no longer convinced that i need to supplement in order to be healthy but i am convinced that I need to detox fully to be healthy period.


l always appreciate your comments, your wisdom and research on all of these things Raw Angel Mum, l was never upset with you in any way because l know you think highly of these folks and put lots of thought into these things. l think it's great that you are so opened minded here, so no problem.

l can well believe someone like yourself is an exception and doesn't need supplementation...you seem to vibrate at a high level already. l am hoping to be the same way one day and ditch most of the sea weeds, the B12 and many of the sprouts. l would still take chlorella for the detox effect for modern day living. People change over time so diets need to change over time.

[Non]

Seaweeds and algae are not supplements just IMO.

As for b12... we need it. Unless there is some big discovery that we can get b12 from some kind of fermentation of b12 analogues. That's something I have to try out myself.

And heh, I have to pick up Dr. Morse's book one day.

[Non]

lol. You know it is confusing, because all plant foods come from a seed. All seeds come from a fruit or flower. Any plant food comes from a flower or body of a flower. Does that make all plan foods flower foods?

I think, what he means more though is: fruits, or flowers themselves are considered "flower foods".

He says: "All food that comes from a flower is a fruit." and I fuond this somewhere else: "Jubb encourages consumption of foods that come either from the body of a flower or the flower itself."

So what the heck?

I know beans are considered fruits. Nuts are sometimes also. Grains as well. But what about seeds such as sunflower, pumpkin, etc?

But hm... I would go so far as to say that no even though some botanically consider beans, nuts and seeds as fruit are wrong. Perhaps as a whole, a pea pod is considered a fruit, but that doesn't make the seeds themselves by themselves fruit because they are seeds. The seeds don't contain more seeds in them. Where does it start being a fruit? From skin to "flesh" to seed? What about legumes? Where is the "flesh" seperating the skin from the legume itself?

[Raw Angel Mom]

l always appreciate your comments, your wisdom and research on all of these things Raw Angel Mum, l was never upset with you in any way because l know you think highly of these folks and put lots of thought into these things. l think it's great that you are so opened minded here, so no problem.

l can well believe someone like yourself is an exception and doesn't need supplementation...you seem to vibrate at a high level already. l am hoping to be the same way one day and ditch most of the sea weeds, the B12 and many of the sprouts. l would still take chlorella for the detox effect for modern day living. People change over time so diets need to change over time.

We see in others what is in us, so i am returning the complement to you. You are wonderful to discuss and i honour you. I did supplemented up to this early summer with B12 it did help me with my anxiety etc.... I got my blood test result and my b-12 is fine. Then i found out that taking B12 affect your parathyroid in a negative way and i have parathyroid issue. One reason that i am going to another level with raw food, is that i want to heal all of my body's issues once and for all. I took chlorella this morning with my smoothie and I strangely didn't like the taste this time. I have been doing water fast once a week and eating live food only (including my fruits). I haven't have sprout for a while and microgreen, i miss them. I am hoping i will be able to buy it soon from my supplier.

Anyway, all is well

[Raw Angel Mom]

Seaweeds and algae are not supplements just IMO.

As for b12... we need it. Unless there is some big discovery that we can get b12 from some kind of fermentation of b12 analogues. That's something I have to try out myself.

And heh, I have to pick up Dr. Morse's book one day.

There is, lol.... Mushroom has the B12 that your body can take. Bee pollen if you don't have allergies. Chlorella etc.... I ask the question one time about B12 and he suggested to take B3 or B6 i cannot remember which one instead if i feel the need to supplement. So now, i know there plenty of B3/b6 available in plant. Mango for instance. I need to find out if our body will convert the B3/b6 into b12. I wish i could have talk with him more about this. I don't have his book, but it is on my to buy list.

It was an interesting thread, wishing you all the best!

[Non]

Im not sure if bee pollen and mushrooms are a good source of b12. You're probably best to take a b12 supplement from Hippocrates Institute or Tree of Life Institute or atleast some other more natural form of b12.

I would also experiment with fermenting seaweed because they have b12 analogues.

Spirulina/Chlorella/AFA infused kombucha? Or seaweed kimchi/kraut? Sounds good. Also with some bean sprouts...

[Astral_Anima]

To bring a diff perspective on a few things.....

The biggest problem with fruits seems to be the sugar. It's funny because people like Wolfe, Viktoras and Cousins supposedly worked with the Essenes who believe in returning to the original fruitarian diet of man.
http://www.towardsfreedom.com/249.html

Anyway back to the sugar. They say cancer, candida and most microbes live off sugar right? Well what kind? Cancer has been shown to be an ANAEROBIC microbe, as has candita, all yeasts, molds and fungus. Thus with a proper oxygen cleanse (ozone, H2O2, MMS) these things can and HAVE been taken care of. Look up Jim Humble and his MMS protocol for cancer. Not the BEST approach maybe but it links in with Otto Warburgs discovery of cancer not being able to thrive in high oxygen environments. So these microbes like cancer and candida thrive on FERMENTED sugar (or so I pose). So what would cause sugar to ferment? and why do people have so much trouble initially on a fruitarian diet?
Dr. Arnold Ehret who was one of the pioneers of TRUE health and healing posed that starting with a fruit diet will not work. Why? Because if the intestines are not cleaned out then the "grape sugar" (as he called it) would FERMENT! So he called for a regime of fasting that would loosen the mucus and general blockages in the intestines and then breaking those fasts with either juices or "roughage" like vegetable matter. I'm actually surprised Dr. Morse doesn't mention this as he quotes Ehret quite a bit, yet he seems to forget this simple principle. So I would pose along with Ehret and the Essenes, that a transition diet be held first with weekly fasts, if one wanted to be successful on a fruit diet. WHY DO NO PRACTITIONERS RECOMMEND FASTING????


I have personally been doing 2 days dry fasting and on the 3rd day I juice 2lbs of grapes and flush myself out until I last longer dry fasting. I started out with just one day, then worked up to 2 now I'm moving on 3 which means i'm dry fasting about 4-6 days a weeks and only drinking grape juice for "nutrition" (even tho personally it's just to re-hydrate, re-energize and flush). I could tell due to my iris that my GI tract was sub-optimal. As I fast the brown around my pupil gets lighter and when I drink the grape juice is nearly vanishes (then comes back but lighter than it was). When I drink the grapes juice, without fail, I expel large quantities of mucus whether from my stomach, S.intestine, L. intestine or wherever else. As I continue my strength increases. I have personally tripled my reps on the pull-up bar and started doing exercises that I have never been able to do; I just today started doing handstand pushups (can only do one atm, but I could never do them before), and it is my 2nd day dry fasting. As soon as I feel weak I know the toxins are flooding my system so i do the grape juice to flush myself out and regain my energy.


But anyway, back to the fruits. The other problems seems to be about nutrition. Personally as someone who has been fasting more days than eating (and when eating, only drinking fruit juice) I have to question the legitimacy of nutrition. No doubt it has benefits but as one becomes cleaner is their dependence on nutrition lessened? This I will not be able to support, however if one reads Ehret's work on a "new physiology" he theorizes that man is an "air-engine"(he used another phrase), that it is breath that is the "pump" and the heart is the "valve", essentially stating that the human body runs on breath. He also stated that as the body is progressively cleared of toxins there is no limit to how long it can go without food. Grounds for breatharianism? hmmm.

Regardless, as Dr. Morse does, I would look at endocrine function at the utilization of nutrition. Sure HHI may have the diet that has the most nutrition in the foods themselves, but how much are we able to absorb; especially with all that heavy plant fiber. According to Ehrets "mucus theory" (which Dr. Morse in part attests to) accumulation of mucus can interfere with the functioning of the human system. If this is true then perhaps B12 issues, calcium issues, sodium issues, hydration, and most other nutrient issues are more due to a clogged up system(inability to absorb or utilize) than to a lack of dietary supplementation. Again...WHY DOES NOBODY RECOMMEND FASTING??? Fasting has been proven over and over again to be the fastest (pun, lol) way to release the stored up wastes that clog the human vessel. So wouldn't a progressive fasting regime (say starting with once or twice a week) complimented by correct diet (for most a high plant "roughage") and some colon cleansing be the best way to go, while slowly increasing the fasts and likewise the fruit intake? It's shown that as the need for the nutrient increases, the ability of the body to utilize it increases. So if one focuses on restoring the functioning of glands and the clearing of wastes that prohibit proper function, perhaps they would absorb all the "nutrition" they need from fruits. If you look at the bloodwork of the 80/10/10ers you'd see a good indication.
http://api.ning.com/files/H09aMDTwAW4fYiar9l8WHcg0xp--2YzC0JgoRtNVjZyK-lB5LGqBPKke8x8z48cTTWoKE6NtksPM0pAgzUS3xYjQv616yGA 6/310_CrsOCT2010backflexrawposter.jpg
95% fruit? Nah he must be protein defiecient or B12 defecient or...he must have SUM deficiency!!!! I mean it's impossible to look like THAT from mostly storebought fruits right?????

Likewise why does noone address parasites. Alot of people who go vegetarian become anemic, why? Hookworms drain iron, tapeworms drain B12. #1 cause of both? Meat. However those bugs can stay with you even after transitioning to vegetarian or veganism. They can over time suck your iron/B12 supply clean. Fasting is one way to deal with parasites, but a parasite cleanse imo is a MUCH better method.

As for the "mental imbalance" yeah no shit, lol. Getting off "comfort foods" is HARD work. Just getting of cooked foods and spices is hard enough. Try giving up salt, overt fats, spicy foods (cayanne, etc) and spices...it's tough. You'll go through cravings, you'll go through binges and you'll get irritable, you'll get angry, but this is normal, we're just going through withdawl. ON TOP OF THAT, when we eat just fruits (or go on to just their juices as I have) your awareness expands to incredible levels. You become more sensitive emotionally, enegetically, spiritually. So yes, you now have to deal with all of the issues that eating allowed you to ignore. Someone who has anxiety can lessen their awareness of it by eating "heavier foods" like fats, but that doesnt make them more "mentally balanced".

Using the daoist model... jing(essence) transforms into chi(vital energy) which supports shen(spirit;awareness). So if you reduce your "chi" or energy by eating heavy foods(chi goes to digestion) then naturally you're going to lower your shen or awareness, which creates an endless cycle of dependence and running away. To me emotional imbalances aren't caused by diet, their caused by mindset. Try fasting, i garuntee if you haven't fasted then you're going to get irritable, restless, etc. However experienced fasters don't, so we can't say that lack of nutrition decreases irritability. Imagine taking a crack addict and saying "well when we take away the crack he gets nervous, irratible and mentally imbalanced. So we create a dosha that says, if you're this this or that then you need crack to stay "balanced", or be like the allopaths, EVERYBODY needs crack to stay balanced, lololol. Of course this would be in a society where crack is socially acceptable and 90% of people do it. My question is "If symptoms of certain foodstuff deficiency mimic withdrawl but people can fast months on juice juices or water and not get those symptoms, then what differentiates that foodstuff from a drug?"

[Astral_Anima]

Lastly I'd like to address human nature to seek comfort and run from pain. This seems to be the biggest issue as this natural instinct is working against us. People seem to believe that if they go on a diet it's going to be all "peaces and coconut-cream"(edited for vegan forum XD). What we're forgetting is that most of us were poisoned from birth. remember all that crying, screaming, discomfort, sickness, diarrhea, vomiting? What you think all human babies just do that? Cmon man, that was due to the poisoning of the human body. From birth we're fed foods that our system, at first, doesn't accept. Then after it's initial attempts at eliminating it (vomiting, diarrhea, mucus), we become constipated, can't eliminate as well and then we're considered "healthy" (what a backwards society). From then on we've been accumulating mucus and undigested waste. And we somehow decide that getting rid of that should be pleasant? LOLOLOLOL, no WAY man. Detox is a LENGTHY process and it's not comfortable. It can take YEARS, and when you think about it, it TOOK YEARS to accumulate all that waste, it's not gonna come out after a few month raw. You go on fruits and that stuff starts coming out, but even then it can still take a LONG time to get clean again. Imo it is only through fasting that the "sin" of gluttony can be "attoned for". Again, we're conditioned in society to go for the "quick fixes" to go for comfort instead of facing out issues. Why suffer through how much you hate your life when you could just call China House up the street and order some General Tso's tofu (Chinese was my personal biggest addiction :p) and play some Call of Duty? So for most people, they go through detox and they encounter some "turbulence" and they say "uhp, can't do these fruits, I must be deficient in this or that", then they go out on the internet and read all these other people saying "oh well you can't do that fruit thing cause you're not getting enough fat or protein or vitamin B12, but if you buy my supplements or eat dead animals then you'll be fine. In reality however it's just that the person wasn't willing to go through some temporary discomfort for the greater good of longterm health. And to me thats what it comes down to. People aren't willing to sacrifice their immediate comfort for their longterm health. So if people wanna say they couldn't handle fruits, or that they're not ready to handle fruits, thats fine, but to say it can't be done when there are so many of us doing it, is arrogance imo.

"Those who say it cannot be done should get out of the way of the ones doing it" -Chinese Proverb

-Astral

P.S. HI NON!!!!!!!!!! XD

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Sure HHI may have the diet that has the most nutrition in the foods themselves, but how much are we able to absorb; especially with all that heavy plant fiber.

Well, HHI do recommend much of our foods be consumed as cold pressed juices (not blended), easily absorbed algaes and sea weeds while taking digestive enzymes for non juiced soft fiber sprouts. And according to testing on how much Hippocrates patients absorb, the diet works out very well. Dr Clement doesn't care how much nutrients are in someones blood, he cares about how much they absorb, and tests for that.


If this is true then perhaps B12 issues, calcium issues, sodium issues, hydration, and most other nutrient issues are more due to a clogged up system(inability to absorb or utilize) than to a lack of dietary supplementation. Again...WHY DOES NOBODY RECOMMEND FASTING??? Fasting has been proven over and over again to be the fastest (pun, lol) way to release the stored up wastes that clog the human vessel. So wouldn't a progressive fasting regime (say starting with once or twice a week) complimented by correct diet (for most a high plant "roughage") and some colon cleansing be the best way to go, while slowly increasing the fasts
That's a great point and my hero Kulvinskas says that anyone can produce B12 with a clean colon and enemas, but l try to avoid talking about that here because it is advanced stuff and can lead people into trouble and starvation if it isn't done responsibly. Many raw fooders get carried away with fasting and think the cleaner the better and end up with nutritional deficiencies like my hero Kulvinskas did at various times thoughout his life. Even with me now practising calorie restriction, l must be very careful. lt's a careful balance of many things including a strong mind.



http://api.ning.com/files/H09aMDTwAW4fYiar9l8WHcg0xp--2YzC0JgoRtNVjZyK-lB5LGqBPKke8x8z48cTTWoKE6NtksPM0pAgzUS3xYjQv616yGA 6/310_CrsOCT2010backflexrawposter.jpg
95% fruit? Nah he must be protein defiecient or B12 defecient or...he must have SUM deficiency!!!! I mean it's impossible to look like THAT from mostly storebought fruits right?????

One thing l learned quite quickly was to take what people claim they do with a grain of salt. The raw food vegan movement is full of people making false claims about what they do; some have been busted, some have come out and admitted they mislead people, and some admit to friends they don't do what they claim they do. Humans start getting a following and an ego and a business built up on raw health and it is hard to come out with the truth if things go wrong. l'm sure some people do amazing things and do what they claim, but i'm sure most don't do the things they claim...humans are prone to telling fibs in all walks and professions of life, and raw foods are no different, it's human nature and our lowly ego's.

At the end of the day we must try and see what works for us. Hippocrates Health lnstutute has a proven good track record in veganism. The natural hygene movement with high fruit eating has proven a disaster, that's why the claims of it's success must be met with skepticism. l'm not saying all people will fail (we are all different), but we must tread down that path very carefully and be careful of it's guru's who talk up such diets without adressing the problems many people encounter on such diets. Not everything has a rosey ending like some guru's have people believe. Natural hygene eating hasn't earned a dirty reputation without a good reason.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Well I heard on Facebook that if you post "I love Unicorns" as your status that you'll receive a free unicorn in the mail within 14 days!

So it MUST be true!
Not only are there supposed to be 4 dangerous fertilizers that are being added to fruit, there is actual evidence presented scientifically about 9 highly dangerous additives now being added to organic farming. l am currently researching it, but l will need time to understand the information correctly because it is quite technical.

lt's unfortunate stuff but it is best we know this stuff so we can bypass it. We can bypass this stuff by planting some plants/trees on farms and harvesting our own food. But...eventually l feel the NWO will take complete control of the world's food supply, so we must learn to survive on the grasses and the weeds like l am trying to do. lt is actually starting to happen now...growing your own vegetables in your backyard and organic farming may be outlawed soon by big business:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtLGuOQemnQ

Yes, the bill was passed for future use. And yes, the autocratic government of the U.S.A has the power to ban anyone from growing vegetables in their backyard whenever they choose to in the future, and...THEY WILL!!!

We always must be aware of what the dark forces are doing so we can always be a step ahead of them. Some say organic will be gone within 15 years, so l am preparing for the worst. Am l worried?...hell no!

[Non]

To bring a diff perspective on a few things.....

The biggest problem with fruits seems to be the sugar. It's funny because people like Wolfe, Viktoras and Cousins supposedly worked with the Essenes who believe in returning to the original fruitarian diet of man.
http://www.towardsfreedom.com/249.html

Anyway back to the sugar. They say cancer, candida and most microbes live off sugar right? Well what kind? Cancer has been shown to be an ANAEROBIC microbe, as has candita, all yeasts, molds and fungus. Thus with a proper oxygen cleanse (ozone, H2O2, MMS) these things can and HAVE been taken care of. Look up Jim Humble and his MMS protocol for cancer. Not the BEST approach maybe but it links in with Otto Warburgs discovery of cancer not being able to thrive in high oxygen environments. So these microbes like cancer and candida thrive on FERMENTED sugar (or so I pose). So what would cause sugar to ferment? and why do people have so much trouble initially on a fruitarian diet?
Dr. Arnold Ehret who was one of the pioneers of TRUE health and healing posed that starting with a fruit diet will not work. Why? Because if the intestines are not cleaned out then the "grape sugar" (as he called it) would FERMENT! So he called for a regime of fasting that would loosen the mucus and general blockages in the intestines and then breaking those fasts with either juices or "roughage" like vegetable matter. I'm actually surprised Dr. Morse doesn't mention this as he quotes Ehret quite a bit, yet he seems to forget this simple principle. So I would pose along with Ehret and the Essenes, that a transition diet be held first with weekly fasts, if one wanted to be successful on a fruit diet. WHY DO NO PRACTITIONERS RECOMMEND FASTING????


I have personally been doing 2 days dry fasting and on the 3rd day I juice 2lbs of grapes and flush myself out until I last longer dry fasting. I started out with just one day, then worked up to 2 now I'm moving on 3 which means i'm dry fasting about 4-6 days a weeks and only drinking grape juice for "nutrition" (even tho personally it's just to re-hydrate, re-energize and flush). I could tell due to my iris that my GI tract was sub-optimal. As I fast the brown around my pupil gets lighter and when I drink the grape juice is nearly vanishes (then comes back but lighter than it was). When I drink the grapes juice, without fail, I expel large quantities of mucus whether from my stomach, S.intestine, L. intestine or wherever else. As I continue my strength increases. I have personally tripled my reps on the pull-up bar and started doing exercises that I have never been able to do; I just today started doing handstand pushups (can only do one atm, but I could never do them before), and it is my 2nd day dry fasting. As soon as I feel weak I know the toxins are flooding my system so i do the grape juice to flush myself out and regain my energy.


But anyway, back to the fruits. The other problems seems to be about nutrition. Personally as someone who has been fasting more days than eating (and when eating, only drinking fruit juice) I have to question the legitimacy of nutrition. No doubt it has benefits but as one becomes cleaner is their dependence on nutrition lessened? This I will not be able to support, however if one reads Ehret's work on a "new physiology" he theorizes that man is an "air-engine"(he used another phrase), that it is breath that is the "pump" and the heart is the "valve", essentially stating that the human body runs on breath. He also stated that as the body is progressively cleared of toxins there is no limit to how long it can go without food. Grounds for breatharianism? hmmm.

Regardless, as Dr. Morse does, I would look at endocrine function at the utilization of nutrition. Sure HHI may have the diet that has the most nutrition in the foods themselves, but how much are we able to absorb; especially with all that heavy plant fiber. According to Ehrets "mucus theory" (which Dr. Morse in part attests to) accumulation of mucus can interfere with the functioning of the human system. If this is true then perhaps B12 issues, calcium issues, sodium issues, hydration, and most other nutrient issues are more due to a clogged up system(inability to absorb or utilize) than to a lack of dietary supplementation. Again...WHY DOES NOBODY RECOMMEND FASTING??? Fasting has been proven over and over again to be the fastest (pun, lol) way to release the stored up wastes that clog the human vessel. So wouldn't a progressive fasting regime (say starting with once or twice a week) complimented by correct diet (for most a high plant "roughage") and some colon cleansing be the best way to go, while slowly increasing the fasts and likewise the fruit intake? It's shown that as the need for the nutrient increases, the ability of the body to utilize it increases. So if one focuses on restoring the functioning of glands and the clearing of wastes that prohibit proper function, perhaps they would absorb all the "nutrition" they need from fruits. If you look at the bloodwork of the 80/10/10ers you'd see a good indication.
http://api.ning.com/files/H09aMDTwAW4fYiar9l8WHcg0xp--2YzC0JgoRtNVjZyK-lB5LGqBPKke8x8z48cTTWoKE6NtksPM0pAgzUS3xYjQv616yGA 6/310_CrsOCT2010backflexrawposter.jpg
95% fruit? Nah he must be protein defiecient or B12 defecient or...he must have SUM deficiency!!!! I mean it's impossible to look like THAT from mostly storebought fruits right?????

Likewise why does noone address parasites. Alot of people who go vegetarian become anemic, why? Hookworms drain iron, tapeworms drain B12. #1 cause of both? Meat. However those bugs can stay with you even after transitioning to vegetarian or veganism. They can over time suck your iron/B12 supply clean. Fasting is one way to deal with parasites, but a parasite cleanse imo is a MUCH better method.

As for the "mental imbalance" yeah no shit, lol. Getting off "comfort foods" is HARD work. Just getting of cooked foods and spices is hard enough. Try giving up salt, overt fats, spicy foods (cayanne, etc) and spices...it's tough. You'll go through cravings, you'll go through binges and you'll get irritable, you'll get angry, but this is normal, we're just going through withdawl. ON TOP OF THAT, when we eat just fruits (or go on to just their juices as I have) your awareness expands to incredible levels. You become more sensitive emotionally, enegetically, spiritually. So yes, you now have to deal with all of the issues that eating allowed you to ignore. Someone who has anxiety can lessen their awareness of it by eating "heavier foods" like fats, but that doesnt make them more "mentally balanced".

Using the daoist model... jing(essence) transforms into chi(vital energy) which supports shen(spirit;awareness). So if you reduce your "chi" or energy by eating heavy foods(chi goes to digestion) then naturally you're going to lower your shen or awareness, which creates an endless cycle of dependence and running away. To me emotional imbalances aren't caused by diet, their caused by mindset. Try fasting, i garuntee if you haven't fasted then you're going to get irritable, restless, etc. However experienced fasters don't, so we can't say that lack of nutrition decreases irritability. Imagine taking a crack addict and saying "well when we take away the crack he gets nervous, irratible and mentally imbalanced. So we create a dosha that says, if you're this this or that then you need crack to stay "balanced", or be like the allopaths, EVERYBODY needs crack to stay balanced, lololol. Of course this would be in a society where crack is socially acceptable and 90% of people do it. My question is "If symptoms of certain foodstuff deficiency mimic withdrawl but people can fast months on juice juices or water and not get those symptoms, then what differentiates that foodstuff from a drug?"

Gabriel Cousens recommends fasts just not like, as you do with a goal of becoming breatharian. That's risky for him if he were to recommend that to people. INstead he goes the route of eating low calorie. Parasite cleansing is also part of GC's program as the goal of his diet is to restore a healthy "bio-terrain".

I also thought Chris Califano was more of a higher fat kinda guy if you look at his website it seems his recipes are all gourmet style with high fats. Edit: he might also have a high fruit intake.

I have said before too long ago, that perhaps there is a transition necessary if one wants to go more of a fruit-based diet. Although how much can we? I dare think that perhaps now the only way to BE a fruitarian in this modern society is to be strictly low glycemic fruitarian.

Now if you're headed to be a breatharian... does that change it?


Hi AstralAnima. Good to see you here participatin. All the best.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Gabriel Cousens recommends fasts just not like, as you do with a goal of becoming breatharian. That's risky for him if he were to recommend that to people. INstead he goes the route of eating low calorie. Parasite cleansing is also part of GC's program as the goal of his diet is to restore a healthy "bio-terrain".
Yeah exactly...gotta be careful how you talk to people about fasting, enemas, and all that stuff because it can blow people out too much. l choose not to talk about it online too much and instead talk about sproutarianism, far far safer, less off-putting and less likely for a person to stuff up. l think of the 80-10-10 type of diet as being for more advanced type of eating for highly spiritual people in this day and age, not the type of vegan diet for ordinary people to be cutting their teeth on by any means.


I have said before too long ago, that perhaps there is a transition necessary if one wants to go more of a fruit-based diet.
Definitely agree. lt's the next closest thing towards breatharism and is the end of the line as far as food eating is concerned, and spared for highly spiritual people well advanced at eating a raw vegan diet. Too many vegans underestimate the high fruit diet and think anyone can do it, that's why l feel so many bomb out on such a diet, + l imagine there are lots of other complications that contribute to problems with the diet.


Although how much can we? I dare think that perhaps now the only way to BE a fruitarian in this modern society is to be strictly low glycemic fruitarian.

Very very true l feel for modern day man. High sugar fruit may even stop highly spiritual people from thriving on the diet, l often do think about that. Eg, people go from sproutarianism to green juicarianism and attempt go naturally to fruitarism but fail because of the high sugar complications that modern man has. lt's very very interesting to think about.

Then again....as Kulvinskas said in one of his amazing lectures...if you go breatharian you are still limited because you are now surviving on cooked polluted air full of radiation, so how far can you advance? And as we know, pollution is never a good thing...spiritual people often report that even the advanced aliens say it's a big no no, so obviously it causes complications all through-out space.

l know a bunch of people who are almost breatharian, and all are highly spiritual and look years younger than they are. One bloke eats 3 amonds a day and has done so for years and is 55 and only looks 30. They don't boast...they keep quiet about it...l only found out because l asked him direct questions. You don't tell the media these things because they are the enemy and will eventually sabitage the storey because such lifestyles are a threat to the people who control the media. lf people were aware of what the human body was capable of all corruption and big business would collapse, that's why the media will never be in favour of reporting such truths.

Vibrations are everything, that is the ultimate food, that's why dead food doesn't build health.

Anyway...l better get off the topic of breatharism and aliens, most folks won't be able to handle that stuff. Better keep it simple and relatable....getting far too deep here.

[Non]

Also if you look at the raw vegan bodybuilders they're all that way with a higher fat intake. Also with grains, or legumes, etc. which provide complex carbohydrates. Though maybe not necessary look at Nature Love. I think he's the biggest leanest guy in the raw foods movement and he just eats greens all damn day! lol. Even the more leaner AND bigger of the bodybuilders seem to prefer a lower to moderate and lower glycemic carb lifestyle.

The others look a bit puffed up.

And some of the fruitarians just look thinner but I guess they're just not focused on the muscle as opposed to cardiovascular fitness.

[Non]

Not only are there supposed to be 4 dangerous fertilizers that are being added to fruit, there is actual evidence presented scientifically about 9 highly dangerous additives now being added to organic farming. l am currently researching it, but l will need time to understand the information correctly because it is quite technical.

lt's unfortunate stuff but it is best we know this stuff so we can bypass it. We can bypass this stuff by planting some plants/trees on farms and harvesting our own food. But...eventually l feel the NWO will take complete control of the world's food supply, so we must learn to survive on the grasses and the weeds like l am trying to do. lt is actually starting to happen now...growing your own vegetables in your backyard and organic farming may be outlawed soon by big business:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtLGuOQemnQ

Yes, the bill was passed for future use. And yes, the autocratic government of the U.S.A has the power to ban anyone from growing vegetables in their backyard whenever they choose to in the future, and...THEY WILL!!!

We always must be aware of what the dark forces are doing so we can always be a step ahead of them. Some say organic will be gone within 15 years, so l am preparing for the worst. Am l worried?...hell no!

Yea man amen. It seems sprouting is a skill to learn in these times.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=QX0N--EeSBs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEbeqMFHTQ8&feature=related

Dr Jubb truely is a genious and he is probably more knowledgable than any other health person because his level of study is probably unequalled in the raw/health food movement (he reads up to three books a day and is scientifically studied in many areas). When you mix Dr Jubb with Dr Clement you get an awesome combination. Both men are backed up with science, but Dr Jubb even more so. People have told me that Jubsy is the best there is, and the more l study him the more l believe it. l might start a new thread soon and talk about the scientific approaches of Dr Brian Clement and Dr David Jubb to come up with the ultimate theory of what we should be eating.

Jubb brings up things which show a weakness in the Hippocrates diet, and Clement brings up things which show strong potential weaknesses in Jubb's diet recommendation. But if you eliminate the weaknesses in both diets and take their strongest points you will get a truely great diet with strong scientific backing.

Jubb's ways run contrary to the way l have always done raw, but the science can't be ignored. Lets combine Dr Brian's research on high vibration high sunlight foods with Dr Jubb's flower foods. This is going to be fun and it's going to be great. l'll present some good science about the best foods for building health.

DR Jubb is in his 60's and looks much younger, so he does know what he is talking about. He doesn't talk fancy theories, he talks with solid science to back up what he says. He mentions many interesting things about hybrid fruits and sweet fruits like Dr Clement does, and he also brings up things about spirulina, wheatgrass, beans and grains that will be of interest to folks here. Jubsy is unlike most of the raw food gurus who just reguritate stuff from other books, Jubsy is a true researcher and leader in the movement of the highest order in that he creates new information that crushes previous held beliefs in the movement backed up with definite science.

[Raw Angel Mom]

the ultimate theory of what we should be eating.


This is the problem, it is a theory. There are so many theories and many could make so much sense BUT they contradict one another. Going with live evidence over thousands and thousands case is far more reliable then a study. Dr. Morse has done that.



But if you eliminate the weaknesses in both diets and take their strongest points you will get a truely great diet with strong scientific backing.

I like the first part of eliminating the weakness but i wouldn't limit myself with two diets only. As far of the scientific backing, again, thousands of live evidence over write a study.

Fruits is a very important and essential food, it shouldn't be eliminated from this theory of phosphate. Because nobody can comprehend the wisdom of mother nature. Maybe there is an element that is missing totally with fruits that scientific cannot comprehend beyond the physical.

Without question fruits has many property but one of them keep a young skin. Greens has also many property and one of them keep your hair shinny and with their natural color. So yes, we can come up with the perfect diet that is perfect for us, but without limiting ourselves and going with lives evidence as well.

Everyone serve a purpose and an important part of the puzzle which at the end will lead to a master piece.

All the best


p.s I recommend that you read the Essene Gospel of Peace. This book tells you exactly how to eat and it doesn't eliminate the fruits. Everything that you kill (animals) will kill you, anything that has been kill by the fire or frost will also kill you. Translation raw diet. Milk is pasteurized and dead. It promotes also water fasting and enema. It promotes to eat the food in your area. Anyway, this book was the answer of my questions. Dr. Morse is up to something. Dan McDonald also is up to something.

[Non]

Dr Jubb truely is a genious and he is probably more knowledgable than any other health person because his level of study is probably unequalled in the raw/health food movement (he reads up to three books a day and is scientifically studied in many areas). When you mix Dr Jubb with Dr Clement you get an awesome combination. Both men are backed up with science, but Dr Jubb even more so. People have told me that Jubsy is the best there is, and the more l study him the more l believe it. l might start a new thread soon and talk about the scientific approaches of Dr Brian Clement and Dr David Jubb to come up with the ultimate theory of what we should be eating.

Jubb brings up things which show a weakness in the Hippocrates diet, and Clement brings up things which show strong potential weaknesses in Jubb's diet recommendation. But if you eliminate the weaknesses in both diets and take their strongest points you will get a truely great diet with strong scientific backing.

Jubb's ways run contrary to the way l have always done raw, but the science can't be ignored. Lets combine Dr Brian's research on high vibration high sunlight foods with Dr Jubb's flower foods. This is going to be fun and it's going to be great. l'll present some good science about the best foods for building health.

DR Jubb is in his 60's and looks much younger, so he does know what he is talking about. He doesn't talk fancy theories, he talks with solid science to back up what he says. He mentions many interesting things about hybrid fruits and sweet fruits like Dr Clement does, and he also brings up things about spirulina, wheatgrass, beans and grains that will be of interest to folks here. Jubsy is unlike most of the raw food gurus who just reguritate stuff from other books, Jubsy is a true researcher and leader in the movement of the highest order in that he creates new information that crushes previous held beliefs in the movement backed up with definite science.

That sounds like it would be an awesome post!

[Non]

This is the problem, it is a theory. There are so many theories and many could make so much sense BUT they contradict one another. Going with live evidence over thousands and thousands case is far more reliable then a study. Dr. Morse has done that.




I like the first part of eliminating the weakness but i wouldn't limit myself with two diets only. As far of the scientific backing, again, thousands of live evidence over write a study.

Fruits is a very important and essential food, it shouldn't be eliminated from this theory of phosphate. Because nobody can comprehend the wisdom of mother nature. Maybe there is an element that is missing totally with fruits that scientific cannot comprehend beyond the physical.

Without question fruits has many property but one of them keep a young skin. Greens has also many property and one of them keep your hair shinny and with their natural color. So yes, we can come up with the perfect diet that is perfect for us, but without limiting ourselves and going with lives evidence as well.

Everyone serve a purpose and an important part of the puzzle which at the end will lead to a master piece.

All the best


Well, Brian Clement and Gabriel Cousens have found their diets through "live evidence" as you say, ie clinical experience. BTW I'm waiting for Dr Morse's book by mail.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

p.s I recommend that you read the Essene Gospel of Peace. This book tells you exactly how to eat and it doesn't eliminate the fruits. It promotes also water fasting and enema. It promotes to eat the food in your area. Anyway, this book was the answer of my questions.
l love the Essene Gospel of Peace and live by many of the principles, but it is not the complete answer to everything. Firstly, not many of us can rely on fruits because they aren't freshly picked and will lack the significant vibration, so they are largely off the list of foods to eat. lf we could eat fruits straight off the tree and avoid hybrid species, it would be a completely different storey. The eating of the fruits works for the local small communities of the day, but it doesn't work for modern day city living.

Second, water fasting has been shown not to be ideal in this day and age. With all the blood sugar problems people have it has been shown to be more beneificial to do green juice fasting. Besides, people are malnourished enough and further starving sick people isn't going to be doing them any favours, so why not fast them on high nourishment high energy liquids and make it easier on there bodies.

l love what the book says about food combining. l have lived my life that way for many years. Eat very few foods togeather, and eat the fastest digesting foods first. l am even careful not to mix certain fruits togeather.

Raw Angel Mum: when l merge the science and theories (much of it based in real life) you might well be surprised. Many of the theories work togeather quite well despite being at opposite ends of people's beleifs.


Well, Brian Clement and Gabriel Cousens have found their diets through "live evidence" as you say, ie clinical experience.
Exactly right. But even better than that, HHI actually get their patients to send in blood tests and other relevent stuff for the rest of their lives so HHI can keep a close eye on them.

[Raw Angel Mom]

All right, about asking to dr. Morse if it is best doing only sprout and avoid fruit if we don't know if they are hybrid as you say and if they aren't freshly picked. He must have the answer to that.

All the best with your journey!

p.s When you said base on live study, how many people are you talking about? Which area etc... The reason i ask is that with dr. Morse, it doesn't matter which condition they have or they from etc.... it has been successful except for some people that got their nodes remove or essential part from their body removed through surgery. Fruits/herbs were able to reverse the condition even for extreme case. It will be interesting to see what he will say regarding the fruits that could be hybrid or not fresh.

[Raw Angel Mom]

I would like to through a question to you. Do any of these diet allow your hair grow back? With dr. Morse herbs and fruits you can and he did more then once with clients.

If fruits are so bad, well they sure didn't stop the hair to grow back. I understand about eating fruit that aren't quality or aren't ripe but we have the same problem with water, if we deprive ourself from water, we will be in serious trouble. You need good water, no question but you got to do what you got to do to stay alive even if it means to run the tap water, wait 20 min for the chlorine to evaporate and then consume the water. This is a matter of life or death, no water, no life. I feel the same about the fruits, no fruits, no health. Yes greens do great but they won't allow you to go deeper and cleanse and rejuvenate your cells.

The skin of this doctor doesn't look great, so clearly something is missing with him.

[Non]

Dr. Morse's diet might just be a detox program that might be meant for short term cleansing. Hippocrates and Tree of Life institute on the other hand, while being a detox diet also has the focus of making it into a lifestyle.

So yes, I can see that Dr. Morse's diet can work at least short term and for very many things but long term? I dont know about that.

Besides if we were to only eat local foods in a more primitive society do you think all those fruits and even herbs would be available all year round?

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Dr. Morse's diet might just be a detox program that might be meant for short term cleansing. Hippocrates and Tree of Life institute on the other hand, while being a detox diet also has the focus of making it into a lifestyle.

So yes, I can see that Dr. Morse's diet can work at least short term and for very many things but long term? I dont know about that.

Besides if we were to only eat local foods in a more primitive society do you think all those fruits and even herbs would be available all year round?

+ Dr Morse says that folks on living food diets are never deficient in nutrients. Really??? Sometimes Dr Morse seems like he comes from Mars. l will still give him more of a go and keep an open mind, but he isn't convincing me of much at the moment.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Dr. Morse's diet might just be a detox program that might be meant for short term cleansing. Hippocrates and Tree of Life institute on the other hand, while being a detox diet also has the focus of making it into a lifestyle.

So yes, I can see that Dr. Morse's diet can work at least short term and for very many things but long term? I dont know about that.

Besides if we were to only eat local foods in a more primitive society do you think all those fruits and even herbs would be available all year round?


He says that human are fruitarian not herbivore. While helping a woman with M.S. he suggested to her to have greens to help to increase her muscle mass because she was on a wheal chair and she didn't have any muscle mass. While she was starting to feel her body, she stop feeling it when she was doing greens, so she has to stick with 100% fruits. This was a big eye opener to dr. Morse. He isn't against for us to consume greens but he knows without a doubt that fruits repair our nerve system. He pushes for alphapha(no sure the spelling sorry) sprout and herbs. They are green plants. This woman who had MS was already doing raw food and greens before she meant dr. Morse, it is only when she went deeper with dr. Morse that she was able to walk after 7 months. Dr. Morse and dr. Gabriel Cousens both can reverse diabetes so fruits and greens clearly aren't the problem. I would be curious to see which diet reverse the diabetes condition quicker.

His diet isnt' a short term solution but it is necessary according to him to do a deep tissue detox and rejuvenation. He says he has many clients coming from the hipocrate institute. The hipocrate in my opinion are a blessing without question but there are a deeper level of healing that you can achieve when you are ready. Base on my own experience and body, it has been reveal to be true to go with fruits and especially water fasting. I have seen my lymph moving which before, i was plateau and my urine clear like water while i was still having allergies problem, adrenal problem, kidney problem and my parathyroid problem. I am not agains doing greens either because it clear the blood and it mineralize your body, but i feel fruits is essential food to have a complete diet. He recommend that we juice vegetable because the fiber is very intense. Dan Mcdonald (life regenerator) has a good balance diet. He ate fruits and green juice (mainly plant herbs and leafy greens). This man look great, he has muscle mass, he look young, great skin and no grey hair. He is 37 and he looks much younger. Clearly fruits isn't hurting him.

Anyway, you can experiment and do what feels right to you but it is good that you keep an open mind with fruits even if you choose to stay away from the. I have done that stay away from them as much i could and i went with the hipocrate institute and dr. Ann Wingmore philosophy. I won't put down their knowledge for i am grateful but i know now that fruits is a must in my diet and doing a deep tissue detox when i am ready. My first step is to incorporate more fruits, eliminate acid forming food gradually (some raw food are acid forming to my body such cacao). Just by adding more fruits, i can feel my hip and knees healing. I am not 100% dr. Morse diet and Dan Mcdonald but i am getting there.


All is well.

[Raw Angel Mom]

+ Dr Morse says that folks on living food diets are never deficient in nutrients. Really??? Sometimes Dr Morse seems like he comes from Mars. l will still give him more of a go and keep an open mind, but he isn't convincing me of much at the moment.

He does soul travel, lol.... yes in a sense he comes from another planet, lol... but he is up to something and i am resonating more and more with him. I take and leave still but with a very open mind. I am looking forward to do a 100% fruits. I am waiting to have access to good fruits in the mid time, i am still doing greens and herbs. I was sad to see that we don't have much organic apple in my area, i was planning to do an apple fast, i am not crazy to do this with conventional apple loaded with chemical. The organic apple are imported.

I fully resonate with him about going with deep tissue detoxification and rejuvenation. Maybe this is the key about health and no need to supplement afterward if we do live food. He doesn't supplement himself.

You should address all the question that you have yourself and see what he will answer.

All the best.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Here is something that you should watch. He talks about the hippocrate institute on part 2

This is part 1

http://www.youtube.com/user/robertmorsend#p/a/u/2/3loObCpGjiM

[joyce09]

Raw Angel Mom, two questions if I may ask:
(1) What herbs does Dr. Morse recommend for general cleansing and health?

(2) I watched a couple of Dr. Morse' vedeos. He says that the best fruits for detox are acid and subacid fruits like lemons, grapes, oranges, grapefruits, and watermelons but sweet fruits are not good for detox. Is watermelon subacid? I would think watermelon is pretty sweet?

I look forward to you sharing more insights of Mr. Morse. I like to have a good excuse to eat fruits.

Mr. Raw and non, I appreciate your insights too. I am starting to sprout seriously.
BTW, if I grow wheatgrass in my kitchen without the use of soil and the young wheatgrass plants look clean and without molds, can I juice the whole wheat plants including the roots? I just want to save time. If I could, I would like to skip the cutting grass part. And may I do the same with other sprouts/grass which I grow at home without the use of soil?

[Raw Angel Mom]

Raw Angel Mom, two questions if I may ask:
(1) What herbs does Dr. Morse recommend for general cleansing and health?

(2) I watched a couple of Dr. Morse' vedeos. He says that the best fruits for detox are acid and subacid fruits like lemons, grapes, oranges, grapefruits, and watermelons but sweet fruits are not good for detox. Is watermelon subacid? I would think watermelon is pretty sweet?

I look forward to you sharing more insights of Mr. Morse. I like to have a good excuse to eat fruits.

Mr. Raw and non, I appreciate your insights too. I am starting to sprout seriously.
BTW, if I grow wheatgrass in my kitchen without the use of soil and the young wheatgrass plants look clean and without molds, can I juice the whole wheat plants including the roots? I just want to save time. If I could, I would like to skip the cutting grass part. And may I do the same with other sprouts/grass which I grow at home without the use of soil?

Yes watermelon is a go. He said that banana and date doesn't assist with the detox but you can eat them to help you to substain. Such more toward the end of the day, but if you do only the fruits he recommend then you will have faster result.

As for the herbs, he had the lymph 4 formula that is very strong. Heal all tea. It depends of your symptoms, can you share them here, maybe i can point you in the right direction.

For example, if you issue are mainly on one side of the body, such hip pain, knee pain etc... you most likely have a week kidney on the same side.

Kidney/adrenal formula, lymph formula and for the bowel, could be the basic one.

If you have fibroid, the reproductive formula or lower circulation.

If you have something in your upper body. Heart, skin problem in your face, you have dandruff, look for upper circulation formula.

If you have varicose, brittle nails, you bruise easy etc... parathyroid, look for the glandular formula

If you click on each of his herbs, you can read what they contain, what they help with....

I bought a detox kit, lymph IV and skin formula.

You can start doing fruits only diet, and see if this is enough. Look for the herbs in your area, you can make a smoothie with them and add fruits to sweet it.

Parsley, dandelion, plantain, cilantro, basil etc.....

study water fasting and try to fast one day a week on top of this.

Dr Morse says that he had many many clients for the Hippocrates even though their blood was clean, they still have their tumor. If you want to remove a tumor, you need to remove the vegetables until you accomplish your goal according to him.

He find that the Hippocrates are a good stepping stone but you still need to go deeper to fully detox.

Dr. Morse herbs don't heal, they rejuvenate the organ or the specif area that it is target for.


All is well

[joyce09]

Raw Angel Mom, Thank you very much! After reading your post, I found Dr. Morse's herb formulas website. There indeed is a wealth of information.
I will go the inexpensive self-help way at this time. I will look for the main ingridients (the first couple herbs listed) in his formulas at Whole Foods and make my own herbal teas. I read Dr. Morse's "health questionaire" and I have an idea where to start. BTW, He has two books--"Getting Healthy Book" and "Detox Miracle Sourse Book." I might purchase one book. Do you know the difference between the two books?

One more question: I understand Dr. Morse is strongly for raw foods. He said (in his writing) cooked meats are just dead cells. On the other hand, he promotes herbs. His herbal formulas obviously are not raw. The herbs may have gone through long-time simmering. So herbalists like Dr. Morse don't think "cooked" herbs are dead and thus void of nutrients?

[Raw Angel Mom]

Dear Joyce, i cannot promise you that they are raw because i don't work there, but i would be so shock if they wouldn't be. He makes them himself and ensure to have the best way possible to get the job done for our body. You should ask him the question, it would be interesting to know the answer.

As for the herbs, once you find what is available in your area, make a smoothie with them. Add fruits and voila, so good this way. Yes do this on your own without buying the herbs just now, you will cleanse for sure, but in the mid time, save because once you are ready, you may want to try them some day.

You will be ok and you will feel so good, remember to read about the healing crisis, when you do a detox and if the detox go deep, you will have the same symptoms has been sick except, this is on the path of healing, the stuff will come out. Keep your colon cleanse, do home enema. Enema is Ancient and even mention in the Gospel of peace.

All the best for you.

[joyce09]

Raw Angel Mom, Thank you for your reply. I did not know that I could just throw the herbs into smoothies. Are you sure I can throw into smoothies all the ingredients listed in Dr. Morse's herb formulas? Some of the "herbs" sound inedible, like ginger, white oak bark, and prickly ash bark...I thought I have to simmer them for a long time. The directions on the Juniper Berries bottle at my local Whole Foods say to simmer the Juniper Berries for 30 minutes and drink the tea.

I only found Juniper Berries at the bulk department at my local Whole Foods today. The pleasant dude working there told me about a local herb store. I plan to visit the herb store this weekend.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Maybe try with one single herbs at the time. I find mango/banana neutralize quite well the taste. Apple/orange too do a good job.

I have been doing herbs smoothie before i knew about dr. Morse. I can put saffron, dill, basil, parsley, cilantro, dandelion, water cress, etc.... Any herbs make an interesting smoothie. With ginger you can do apple/orange, it would be a lovely taste.

Don't limit yourself, explore and enjoy.

All is well!

p.s Stuff that are very strong, you can just make a little quantity of it.

[joyce09]

Thank you, Raw Angel Mom. I was not worried about taste. I just wanted to make sure they (the "bart/root kinds) are not poisonous if I throw them into smoothies. There was a typo. I did not mean ginger; I meant gingsen. Anyway, I will try to get as many dry herbs as I could this weekend from the herb store I mentioned.

[Raw Angel Mom]

If in doubt, don't.

Meaning research fully before using an herbs that you suspect could be poisonous. Sometime, what is edible is only part of the plant.

I would do just a bit of the time with the other herbs that you know are safe.

All the best!

[joyce09]

You are right. I should do research with the non-fresh types of herbs before I throw them into smoothies. I will focus on fresh green herbs I can get at grocers in the beginning. I will also ask the people at the herb store I am to visit whether I can throw the dry bark/root into smoothies. Thank you for introducing me to the health benefits of herbs.

[joyce09]

Raw Angel Mom, I just want to let you know what my local herb store lady told me today. She said all herbs (including bark/root kinds) can be thrown into smoothies. And she said she does not believe any liquid tincture can be raw. She also said that tinctures' base is alcohol; so dry herbs are more healthy than tinctures (if one is willing to take the trouble of combining the right kinds together). That is just what she said.

[freelee]

Frugivores we are! And a diet of 97% fruit is what I have been thriving on for the past 5 years. Never felt better. Judge by results not theory.

[Raw Angel Mom]

Raw Angel Mom, I just want to let you know what my local herb store lady told me today. She said all herbs (including bark/root kinds) can be thrown into smoothies. And she said she does not believe any liquid tincture can be raw. She also said that tinctures' base is alcohol; so dry herbs are more healthy than tinctures (if one is willing to take the trouble of combining the right kinds together). That is just what she said.

Ok, good to know. I ask this concern to dr. Morse regarding the alcohol BECAUSE i cannot stand it, lol... but he says that not to worry for his alcohol is ok and it helps the absorption. Without question fresh herbs is far better but i have seen the result for myself by taking his product. I think the best think would be to ask to dr. Morse or do a search on his youtube channel.

Do a research on the natural wild edible greens in your area. Learn one plant at the time very well.

All the best

[Raw Angel Mom]

Frugivores we are! And a diet of 97% fruit is what I have been thriving on for the past 5 years. Never felt better. Judge by results not theory.

I am so happy that you are posting here. I have seen some of your youtube and you are without question a very healthy person and dynamic. I saw that you crossed Australian on fruits, it is pretty amazing.

Enjoy your fruits!

[freelee]

Thank you so much! :-) Yes I did, it took me around 40 days through winter to traverse around 2000 miles, 100% high carb raw vegan :)

[Non]

I think how much sweet fruit one might need just depends on lifestyle. For example a runner might do well to have a major souce of his/her calories from fruit, but a bodybuilder might need a little more fats/proteins and starches instead of fruit.

[Raw Angel Mom]

I think how much sweet fruit one might need just depends on lifestyle. For example a runner might do well to have a major souce of his/her calories from fruit, but a bodybuilder might need a little more fats/proteins and starches instead of fruit.

I am not an expert but greens, wheat grass juice etc... help to increase your muscle mass. Look at the gorilla and elephant.

All the best

[Raw Angel Mom]

Thank you so much! :-) Yes I did, it took me around 40 days through winter to traverse around 2000 miles, 100% high carb raw vegan :)

Your experience certainly got me requestioned the way i was doing raw food. I was brained washed and bought into the idea that i needed to cut down the sweet including fruits, not anymore. I couldn't live without fruits but i would use very little in my green smoothie. I ate far more fruits now, i just love them. Thank you for being you and wishing you all the best.

[Non]

I am not an expert but greens, wheat grass juice etc... help to increase your muscle mass. Look at the gorilla and elephant.

All the best

Yea and it does. That's how you get actually more protein. For bodybuilders it's always said one should moderate the carbs, and the body just metabolizes differently if you want to get muscles.

But IMO to get the amount of protein one needs to be a bodybuilder on such a diet one would need a LOT of greens. Do you know how many lbs an ape lives on a day? Imagine if a human could do that, we just wouldn't have the money for it. Besides again, apes don't just eat greens and fruits, they eat what they can, even the little critters that are in the leafy greens.

In fact, sometimes apes overeat just to get enough protein and fats when that's not even required. As a human we need to overeat.

Again I think it just depends on lifestyle, if you're doing great on fruit that's good for you. Though I couldn't believe a person can actually live on just fruit and even if greens and 10% or less of fat a day, unless he/she is going to become a breatharian.

[Non]

Ultimately though.. it might be possible that a diet high in fruits is probably the goal/ideal of a very spiritually and biologically evolved human society, once having gone through generations of healing, and transcending limitations of the past.

As some have mentioned, Gabriel Cousens and the Hippocrates Institute truly do have a place, and for some that may be a stepping stone towards the biological shift/change required to reach the ideal human diet. Jana Dixon mentions this... For some it might be easier than others. Only after having been cleansed and perhaps even necessitating biological/genetic changes. As a whole for the society it could take a number of generations to reach that goal, where everyone can thrive on such a diet.

Don't expect everyone to be able to succeed at it initially the first time, some people may have come to Dr Morse after having come from the Hippocrates Institute or Gabriel Cousens' Tree of Life Institute, having been healed from some--not all-- diseases or ailments. Once there the rest is taken care of. That may very well the way it could be, but one should not rush it for the better.

[Non]

I also want to make a note that Gabriel Cousens and Hippocrates Insitute focus on foods that are high in vitamins, and protein, filling but not necessarily high in carbs, or calories like the fruits might be. I think they just eat until they're full. The foods are higher in protein and a little more fat. But what this means is that for example a person might think "30-50% fat from calories is a lot", but when you look at these diets, the total amount of calories is not the same as a fruitarian's or an 8-1-1er. Gabriel Cousens and Hippocrates Instititute are all about calorie "restriction" or rather, focusing on higher protein and fiber foods, and a slightly higher percentage of calories from fat. This is more filling/satiating than say eating a bunch of fast digesting fruit. So when a person adds it up, it might not be all that much fatty food. At least relatively speaking. Calorie Restricted peoples eat anywhere from 11250 calories to 1800 calories a day. Not a lot but still satiating if one focuses on higher vitamin content, higher protein, fat, higher fiber, filling foods.

Gabriel Cousens has mentioned that he eats only 3 tblsp of flax, handful of nuts/seeds and a tblsp of coconut oil at least once a day. To him that's low, but when you count it up on calories it may very well fall under the range of 15-50% of calories.

He also eats fruit.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

l'll get back to this topic another day hopefully (there is much l would like to say), but for now i'll just post this link below.

At 10:08 a fruitarian girl asks/talks to Master Ching Hai (another fruitarian). When you are doing it properly and are in the spiritual heights you will only need a few pieces of fruit a day at most. That's why l say that becoming fruitarian is the end path for raw fooders, not a beginning path like so many are lead to believe. Being a slave to fruit gluttony isn't where it is at.

http://suprememastertv.com/bbs/board.php?bo_table=bmd&wr_id=636&url=link1_11&eps_no=&show=&flag=0#v

When you have a higher spirituality you start accessing your food from the universe, that's why some of these spititual people hardly need to eat. Some don't even eat at all apparently. These people don't go out and tell the media and everyone else about it, but they can be found...and they go about their business humbly.

You can't force the diet, it must come naturally as these people in the link have said. lf you are stuffing yourself with all this fruit and still getting hungry, then maybe you are not ready for such a transition yet.

l spoke with a fellow from Supreme Master T.V the other day and we both agreed that it doesn't matter how spiritual you are, if you are still eating GE foods, consuming chemical foods and other bad hybrid foods (sweet foods like bananas and dates) then you aren't going to be too healthy. l kinda wanted top do an interveiw with him for the chanel, but l knew l would be too intense and over-the-top and would have wanted to talk for 3 hours lol.

Master Ching Hai is in her 60's. A high spirituality is really the key to everything and the best way to thrive on a vegan diet. She mentions that we must be vegan and meditate the Quan Yin method for at least 2.5 hours each day. lt is very difficult at first, but the results are much more than what even a raw sproutarian diet can do. Very very powerful; stuff!!!

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

A question l was ask:

Q = So just how old is David Jubb? Maybe he Is right about the whole phosphate ratio thing. I wonder if sprouts have less?

A = DR Jubb is in his 60's. Amazing!!!

Yes, with sprouts the phosphorous levels do drop because much of it is tied up in inhibitors like phytic acid. Sprouting over 5 days can reduce phosphorous levels by 80% as phytic acid is completely elliminated. Dr Jubb never adresses this issue...he doesn't seem to have much understanding of the nature of immature sprouted foods [as many people don't appear to].

Another things we must be very careful with is consuming Spiralina. We must keep consumption of this to very low levels because when we reach ceratin levels the tannin levels will start stripping the body of many important nutrients...the stripping is quite significant too. Also, the calcium - phosphorous ratio is 1 - 2,000 where-as flesh is much less at 1 - 200. So if you are having 15 grams of this stuff a day (30 tablets), you could well be doing yourself a great disservice. lt is best to have Spirulina very sparingly with a greater portion of the algae being Chlorella (1.44 +/- 0.04 mg tannic acid, and a beter phos - cal ratio) and AFA blue-green algae.

See this complex explanation to back up what l am saying:
http://www.nutriweb.org.my/publications/mjn0011_2/mjn11n2_art10.pdf

page 8:
http://www.cyanotech.com/pdfs/spirulina/Spirulina_Abstracts.pdf

But if you are having highing decent amounts of the algaes, just make sure you are making up for it by consuming decent amounts of sprouted chia and sprouted sesame seeds. But take the sesame/chia and algae at different times [l would think], or take small amounts of algae when you are consuming the seame/chia seed sprouts/greens.

Now, algae and grass may not be perfect, but it is a great place to get us started and get us the chi we need to be quite well developed on the path to be in a good position to take things further down the track. lt's all a process. Diets change according to our needs and progress.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Frugivores we are! And a diet of 97% fruit is what I have been thriving on for the past 5 years. Never felt better. Judge by results not theory.

Yes, according to the knowledgable Dr David Jubb, we are frugivores. But what is the definition of a frugivore? A frugivore is not just a fruit eater, it is also a food which creates a flower (Dr Jubb who is well qualitifed in botanics tells us this). So things like fruits, many sprouted seeds, nuts, weeds (preferably immature weed sprouts), vegetables (preferably immature vegetable sprouts because fully grown vegeies are not really that good)) are part of a frugivore diet. Now...we may be frugivores, but if we aren't eating fruits straight off the tree and don't have a good spirituality, history has shown that things start going down hill. Some fruit and vegie eaters do well for 10 years, some do well for 15 years, but eventually they nearly all go down hill because they are not getting the high frequency electromagnetic vibrations into their body....many are eating food that is almost dead because it was picked at another location and maybe over a week old...even a few hours later isn;t good either, and much of it is picked unripe anyway. You might well be a high fruit eater for 5 years, but you are a mere beginner at this....lets see how you go in another 5 - 10 years at eating this type of diet.

As Dr Jubb says, eating non hybrid frugivore foods is the key, but as Dr Clement says, the foods need to be high in `chi' (electromagnetic vibration). Dr Clement also agrees with Dr Jubb in that fruits shouldn't be hybrids, especially sweet fruits. They both talk about sugar problems that the other raw food leaders conveniently like to forget about (they both have done tests to show that humans are not absorbing many of the sugars that sweet hybrid fruits contain, that's why these two scientists are saying what they are). Folks might not have health problems from eating high sugar foods when they are young, but what about the long term?

We need to start getting real and looking at the real science and clinical research on all of this. l am following your progress and Harley's (l am `the sproutarian') and l will be interested how you both fare in 10 years time. lf you fail l want you both to come out and admit it because you have a large foillowing and have the responsibility to be honest with your followers. lf you are both doing this in 15 years time, not cheating and really really thriving and look very youthful, l say WOW!!! Maybe some people can live like this, but maybe most can't. You have many followers and both of you haven't been doing this for a very long time, so be careful what you say to people. As l have said, maybe people need to work up to this type of diet, you both make it sound so simple. Eating a simple diet in this day and age is not so simple because it is so hard to get fresh ripe fruits. Do you pick your vegies and fruit straight from the plant? Also, there is "bloodwork" and then there is "bloodwork"...how much are you absorbing. Think about that. Why not talk Harley into taking up Dr Brian's offer and going to Hippocrates Health lnstitute for a proper examination done to proper scientific standards using the finest methods recently discovered and to check his pancreas: if Harley is doing good, everyone will know about it world wide and Dr Brian will have to finally eat his words. But if Harley isn't doing as good as he thinks he is, then he will be shown up and exposed around the world. Why not talk him into taking Dr Brian on; Harley will either become a hero or a laughing stock and be shut down. Talk him into it, and while you are at it, talk Dr Graham into it too. * wink*

[MysticTree]

Mr Raw,

I don't see why if some people can thrive on sunshine (as you keep mentioning) others can't thrive on fruit.

As long as what people are eating is raw then, for the purposes of this forum, why can't you just let them be? Surely being raw isn't about "taking people down" as you seem to wish for Harley. Your negative vibrations towards some people in the raw food world can't be doing you any good. There is more than One Way; not just your way or no way.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Mr Raw,

I don't see why if some people can thrive on sunshine (as you keep mentioning) others can't thrive on fruit.
lt's not quite that simple. lt's a process that needs to be worked up to. See my previous posts here.

l certainly am not saying that high fruit diets can't work, l am saying high fruit diets are a process that needs to be worked up to. But even more importantly....what type of fruit??? Old fruit? Unripe fruit? Hybrid sweet fruit? Wild jungle fruits? lt's not a simple issue as you seem to think Ms Tree; well it is simple, but not that simple. Too many folks are trying to over simplify a simple issue so they end up buying fruit and vegies from the shops, but it isn't that simple (l have explained why in previous posts here).

l know my efforts are appreciated by many local vegans because my teachings are realistic, not just from fantasy books. The reason the raw food movement is so laughed at is because of the state of the movement our leaders put it in. Thank goodness leaders like Brian Clement and David Jubb are starting to give the movement some credibility, but their messages are still hidden online under a big mass of other people's junk. Lots of gaps in youtube and online about raw food diets, but in time l will try and make sure that gap is plugged up.


As long as what people are eating is raw then, for the purposes of this forum, why can't you just let them be?
Because many people read books and see these authors as experts, and then they start wondering why they fail at raw after a while. l try to give people a reality check and try explaining reasons why so many people fail at raw so folks will live more in reality and less in la-la land. Not all raw is good as people would like to believe, but the issue is more complex than that.


Surely being raw isn't about "taking people down" as you seem to wish for Harley. Your negative vibrations towards some people in the raw food world can't be doing you any good. There is more than One Way; not just your way or no way.
You are misunderstanding what l have been saying all along. lf you read all my comments in the thread you will see that l talk about different diets are possible, not just one way. l say that a diet needs to vary to our needs, but when we are starting we need to be doing certain things until we reach certain levels of consciousness.

No negative thoughts towards anyone, but l am a realist and l want our raw food leaders to be responsible.

Raw is a process, but when one starts raw certain things need to be done until a certain level of consciousness is reached....that means eating in a way in which science and clinical research supports. Diets need to be varied over time because raw is a process. Too many books are saying eat this way, but often it is not supported by science (eating with scientific backing is a very important way to start out so people don't run into trouble early on. When one gets up to speed they can start branching away from science and start eating differently). l still say that the Hippocrates diet is the ideal starting point, and as time goes on a person can branch off that diet into other raw diets. The HHI diet is the safest of them all and gets great results for all, that's why it is the best starting point until one knows their body and what they are really doing.

[MysticTree]

but this is Alissa's forum.

It isn't about raw food leaders levels of responsibility. It's not about the different ways of eating raw. It's just about eating raw. Plain and simple.

That is the great thing about raw. It is wonderfully simple. It isn't about fantastic combinations of foods, expensive supplements, vibrations or levels of enlightenment. It's just about raw foods. There is no need to make a simple, beautiful thing complicated.

[MysticTree]

Too many folks are trying to over simplify a simple issue so they end up buying fruit and vegies from the shops, but it isn't that simple (l have explained why in previous posts here).

People who don't grow their own or forage their own foods have to buy their foods some place whether raw or otherwise. If you look at what is naturally available during the winter months then you will realise that we must store foods if we are to eat. If we must store foods then the freshness of the foods isn't as critical as you are suggesting. Fresh foods are wonderful and preferable but we are designed to live on stored foods just as other animals are during the winter.

By making a simple issue complicated people are able to make more money. You don't see animals in the wild looking up scientific research and worrying about whether they should eat a Papaya or a mango and should they have a certain type of leaf with it or not.

If raw food isn't a simple thing then there is no benefit in it over cooked foods. There is of course benefit and one of the reasons is that it is fundamentally simple in execution. Raw foods. Simple.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

People who don't grow their own or forage their own foods have to buy their foods some place whether raw or otherwise. If you look at what is naturally available during the winter months then you will realise that we must store foods if we are to eat. If we must store foods then the freshness of the foods isn't as critical as you are suggesting. Fresh foods are wonderful and preferable but we are designed to live on stored foods just as other animals are during the winter.
A very simplified view of things l must say. Some people get what l have been saying, others will never get it. l have no intentions of changing your mind about anything, l am only here to help those that seek out my help and just to give food for thought in general. Maybe it's best you ignore what l say and talk to other people who you are more in tune with. You and l are never going to agree on much.

l think my opinions do give food for thought and don't detract from the forum, so why not!

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

but this is Alissa's forum.
but but but yeah, you are right. lf Aleesha has issue with me via p.m, l have no problems in leaving here. l am trying be fair and talk up all foods (even fruit), just not old foods that have lost their `chi' or raw foods with lots of toxins. l think that is fair.


It isn't about raw food leaders levels of responsibility. It's not about the different ways of eating raw. It's just about eating raw. Plain and simple.
That's a nice simple view of things, but why not try helping people get the most out of raw? Many people have trouble sticking to it because they believe it's sooo simple and many end up becoming nutritionally deficient, so why shouldn't l give some basic pointers. l DO try respecting the rules here and keep in mind that it is Alissa's forum.


That is the great thing about raw. It isn't about fantastic combinations of foods, vibrations or levels of enlightenment.
Really? Lets just agree to disagree. No need to make a response to this.

[MysticTree]

A very simplified view of things l must say. Some people get what l have been saying, others will never get it. l have no intentions of changing your mind about anything, l am only here to help those that seek out my help. Maybe it's best you ignore what l say and talk to other people who you are more in tune with. You and l are never going to agree on much.

Funny thing is that you fail to notice when I do agree with you! I agree with you on quite a few things. I disagree with on many things too. I see our exchanges as discussion. You seem to see them as something else.

My view isn't simplified. It is simple. Eating should be simple. It shouldn't and needn't take up so much of people's waking moments. It is what it is - just another facet of life. Not hugely important but necessary.

Does it matter if we don't absorb all the nutrients that we take in? Probably not. We don't use all the oxygen we take in with each breath. We can't store vitamin C so we pee out what isn't used. Does any animal in the wild absorb and use all the nutrients they take in? No idea, I don't think a study has been done on this.

Why make it all any more complicated than it needs to be? I grow my sprouts very simply. They are fine and I can grow huge amounts if I want to or just small amounts. Wheat grass grows amazingly well - again I do it simply. You choose to grow your sprouts under quite a regime of water-type, pressure etc. Just because your method is more complicated doesn't make it better and the same goes for eating raw foods generally.

Make eating raw foods complicated if that is your way but remember that it doesn't have to be complicated because at the bottom of it all it is very simple.

[MysticTree]

lf Aleesha has issue with me via p.m, l have no problems in leaving here

It's not about you leaving or staying. It's about balanced discussion surely?

[EscapeArtist]

I must say I really appreciate that Mr. Raw speaks so much facts. His posts one of the reasons I come to this forum. There are a lot of people out there openly promoting one kind of raw (high fruit) and it's just really good to have a different side and a different option out there for people who are testing all ways of being raw to get the most out of it.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I see our exchanges as discussion. You seem to see them as something else.
l do see them as mainly something else, but maybe l am reading you wrong.


My view isn't simplified.
Lets just agree to disagree on that.


Eating should be simple. It shouldn't and needn't take up so much of people's waking moments. It is what it is - just another facet of life. Not hugely important but necessary.
Yes.


Does it matter if we don't absorb all the nutrients that we take in? Probably not. We don't use all the oxygen we take in with each breath. We can't store vitamin C so we pee out what isn't used. Does any animal in the wild absorb and use all the nutrients they take in? No idea, I don't think a study has been done on this.
lt doesn't matter if we don't absorb everything, but we need to make sure we don't come up deficient in this modern day and age. Naturally though...absorption is still important for so many reasons, that's why we must consume food we are designed to eat otherwise undigestable proteins and other toxins cause ill health in the long term. So we must eat foods with a flower, but NOT all foods with a flower, and certainly not old foods with a flower, and certainly not overly sweet hybrid foods with a flower.

lf we abide by certain rules raw can still be simple.


Why make it all any more complicated than it needs to be? I grow my sprouts very simply. They are fine and I can grow huge amounts if I want to or just small amounts. Wheat grass grows amazingly well - again I do it simply. You choose to grow your sprouts under quite a regime of water-type, pressure etc. Just because your method is more complicated doesn't make it better and the same goes for eating raw foods generally.
My growing methods are more complicated, but only for the sprouts that are trouble prone like beans and peas. Sure l use good water to get the germination rates at a maximum, but l don't use heave spray pressures for all my sprouts. l don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. Maybe some of my seeds need the extra treatment because they aren't as good quality as other people have access too. lf l didn't use special energised water for my peas l would get an almost zero germination rate. lf l didn't use high pressure and special energised filtered water on my beans, l would have a ZERO germination rate. Again...l don't make things more complicated than they need to be.

Now l am facing more sprouting problems as the weather gets warmer. l am inventing a whole new system of sprouting. lnsolation wool shiny silver bats are now needed for summer and special tents with lights are needed for winter sprouting. l wish it was different. Nature always works against me. + l am having slug and bug plagues...another major issue to work out.


Make eating raw foods complicated if that is your way but remember that it doesn't have to be complicated because at the bottom of it all it is very simple.
That's a very simple view of things Ms Tree. See my post written in the above paragraph.

[MysticTree]

Your pea sprouting issues surprise me. Peas sprout with a will here. 100% germination rate. I wonder why you have such difficulty.

We had slugs in the spinach garden this year like never before but it was vary wet. Sadly the hens are fonder of the spinach than the slugs or I would use them as natural control. As it is I have to grow an extra bed of spinach just for the hens! One for the slugs too I suppose.

[MysticTree]

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/images/icons/icon1.png

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by MysticTree http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?p=677078#post677078)
I see our exchanges as discussion. You seem to see them as something else.



l do see them as mainly something else, but maybe l am reading you wrong.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tend to write very short and succinct sentences. That doesn't mean I am being terse. Just brief and to the point.

Yes I disagree with a lot of what you say but I also agree with some of what you say. That is all there is to it really.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I must say I really appreciate that Mr. Raw speaks so much facts. His posts one of the reasons I come to this forum. There are a lot of people out there openly promoting one kind of raw (high fruit) and it's just really good to have a different side and a different option out there for people who are testing all ways of being raw to get the most out of it.

Thanks very much, l really do appreciate it. l do know l am doing a really good thing because the higher powers are telling me this and l am getting lots of good feedback from most vegans l talk to about this. l am not into promoting one type of raw....raw is a process. l don't know much about much, but with some things l do feel l am on the right track and will actively write and talk about certain things.

l don't just dismiss things that run contrary to my view. Many of Dr Jubb's views run opposite to many of my really closely held views and even criticised my beloved Hippocrates Health lnstitute, but instead of being all defensive and writing him off, l was forced to check out his science. l am glad l did because l have now been forced to alter my views abit, and now my viewpoint is more scientifically backed up and stronger than ever, + when you meet the highly spiritual people you also become aware that even science can be triumphed and the raw food world can take on a complete different reality; the spiritual people made me realise that raw is a process. No-one can afford to be closed minded in raw, but most are and don't want to change their viewpoints. The great thing about HHI (Hippocrates) is that thay are always elvolving and changing the way they do things.

When a friend critised my beloved sprout diet and HHI l wanted to rip his head off lol, but l kept an open mind and fully checked Jubb out. l thought that l had it all worked out and was riding at the highest level, but this 20 year old set me straight. He told me that HHI was alittle behind the times and it was very hard hearing this, but l had to remain humble and check out what he said. l am going to start a great thread about raw food another time, it's going to be very exciting and be a totally unique approach and comprehensive essay on raw foods that l fully believe is lacking online and in books....it's going to make a real difference to how people view raw foods and will get the raw food community really thinking. Now...it is not my information, it is other people's information that l will present in a completely understandable and easy way that will blow people's minds. This info will be completely top draw drawing on the best science of our time.

[Non]

I'd say Gabriel Cousens' diet is very similar to HHI, except it's more inclusive of fruits. There's just a phase program, first phase uses little to no fruit (pretty much HHI diet + the fruits If you can handle it), and of the fruits only small amounts of low glycemic berries in large salads. Food combining might also help.

Then, after 3-6 months on phase 1 you can move to phase 1.5 and add in some more of those berries, without salads. Also some sprouted grains. Then 3-6 months after that, you can move to phase 2 where you can enjoy fruits like apples, pears, other fruits,and occasionally higher glycemic fruits like dates, bananas, etc.

It pretty much describes the process you're speaking of Mr. Raw. Then after phase 2 I wonder where people can do but Gabriel Cousens suggests nobody go beyond that by adding more higher glycemic fruits in excess and having more than moderate amounts of fruit.

But ifyou keep an open mind and read about other authors like Dr. David Jubb and Robert Morse you can probably get an idea of how you probably can go beyond the phase 2 of Gabriel Cousens' diet, without messing up.

Maybe others can start without going through Hippocrates Health Institute or the GC diet, and go straight into what David Jubb or Robert Morse considers a good frugivore (not fruitarian) diet should be.

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

Maybe others can start without going through Hippocrates Health Institute or the GC diet, and go straight into what David Jubb or Robert Morse considers a good frugivore (not fruitarian) diet should be.

Maybe, but why not start with the most nutritious diet. Afterall, if Hippocrates diet followers (many are just ordinary people) can still come up deficient in some nutrients during times of extra stress, what hope do they have on other diets. Fill the body with high levels of nutrition (Hippocrates diet is best at this) and high vibration foods (Hippocrates diet is generally best at this too) to give the body the best start possible l say.

[MysticTree]

Maybe, but why not start with the most nutritious diet. Afterall, if Hippocrates diet followers (many are just ordinary people) can still come up deficient in some nutrients during times of extra stress, what hope do they have on other diets. Fill the body with high levels of nutrition (Hippocrates diet is best at this) and high vibration foods (Hippocrates diet is generally best at this too) to give the body the best start possible l say.

I would have thought they are ALL ordinary people

[The Sproutarian (Mr Raw)]

I would have thought they are ALL ordinary people
Ordinary people = people who aren't extremely spiritually elevated, and people who consequently need a highly nutritious diet to get the life force they require for great health. People who still have ego and who are like most people.

Not all people are normal ordinary people. Some may be spiritual, but most aren't extremely spiritual and virtually living on no food in great health.

[MysticTree]

All people are ordinary. We put our "pants" on one leg at a time.

[Non]

Maybe, but why not start with the most nutritious diet. Afterall, if Hippocrates diet followers (many are just ordinary people) can still come up deficient in some nutrients during times of extra stress, what hope do they have on other diets. Fill the body with high levels of nutrition (Hippocrates diet is best at this) and high vibration foods (Hippocrates diet is generally best at this too) to give the body the best start possible l say.

Yea I don't think any normal person at least who eats a cooked or at least SAD diet could really get into a high fruit diet without consequences, much less a 100% fruit diet which simply does not provide adequate amts of vitamins, minerals and macronutrients in balance. I too agree a person would be best to go through a transitory diet like the GC diet or HHI for some time before moving on to a high fruit diet. A high fruit or 100% fruit diet requires some sort of biological evolutionary change because it does not even provide adequate amounts of both micro and macronutrients, and in the balance that most of our constitutions require.

[MysticTree]

Yea I don't think any normal person at least who eats a cooked or at least SAD diet could really get into a high fruit diet without consequences, much less a 100% fruit diet which simply does not provide adequate amts of vitamins, minerals and macronutrients in balance. I too agree a person would be best to go through a transitory diet like the GC diet or HHI for some time before moving on to a high fruit diet.

The main consequence would be improved health.

[MysticTree]

Just by simply eliminating beef, chicken, eggs and dairy you eliminate salmonella, e. coli and a whole host of other viruses and parasites that are ubiquitous in the mass market food supply.

I don't know if this has been mentioned but these bacteria are not the sole preserve of animal products. Organically grown foods can contain high amounts of e-coli because animal manures are often used to fertilise the crops and e-coli is found in the gut and perforce in their manures.

[Aleesha Sattva]

Because this is Alissa's forum Mr. Raw not yours. Because this forum is for people who are following Alissa's philosophy of eating raw live foods... not a fruitarian diet.

I'm closing this thread.

in light,
Admin