Is honey vegan?

[honeybee joy]

I noticed that some vegans seem to think that honey is ok, others seem to think it is not vegan. I became a vegetarian, & then vegan for the animals well being & raw becuase it seemed like the right path. I am curious on what everyone's opinion is on this. Are the bee's harmed? Is it because a animal creates it? Just curious. I hope the bee's are not harmed, because I love the honey.
Thanks.

[Revvell]

Technically the use of ANY animal product ~ whether it flies, crawls, runs or swims is not vegan therefore honey is not considered vegan.

Here' are a couple of things I googled: http://www.friendsofanimals.org/actionline/fall-2004/is-honey-vegan.html

http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

There's plenty more. Just put in "honey vegan".

R.

[Sharon in Colorado]

Some people who are vegan except for honey call themselves beegan.

There are a lot of vegans who believe that using bee products is cruel to the bees.

Also most vegans avoid the use of silk, wool and leather and many household and personal products that contain an animal ingredient.

Technically since this is a "raw vegan" discussion board, we should not be discussing anything non-vegan however honey is often discussed on here. Maybe this is really a beegan board.

[Secret Heart]

The notion that people take away what these creatures work their entire lives for (they only produce about 1 tsp of honey per bee roughly) is what I object to and why I avoid honey.

[jaurequi]

honeybeejoy, you said it perfectly, "... some vegans seem to think that honey is ok, others seem to think it is not vegan."

That some think it's "okay" is the problem. It either is vegan or it's not: Honey is not vegan. Classifying it "okay" or "not okay" is to misclassify it.

Veganism involves more than just not eating animals; it involves the ethics of non-exploitation. By definition, honey is not vegan.
The Why Honey is Not Vegan (http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm) link posted to you above is a great read and will explain it very well.

Best,

[Sharon in Colorado]

honeybeejoy, you said it perfectly, "... some vegans seem to think that honey is ok, others seem to think it is not vegan."

That some think it's "okay" is the problem. It either is vegan or it's not: Honey is not vegan. Classifying it "okay" or "not okay" is to misclassify it.

Veganism involves more than just eating animals; it involves the ethics of non-exploitation. By definition, honey is not vegan.
The Why Honey is Not Vegan (http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm) link posted to you above is a great read and will explain it very well.

Best,

It is kind of like fish eating vegetarians I guess. I have gotten into this with people before.

"oh, I don't eat that, I'm vegetarian"

"you eat fish, right?"

"no, I'm vegetarian"

"so, is there any kind of meat you'll eat?"

"no, I'm vegetarian"

"nothing at all?"

and it goes on and on like this until I have to explain further, "I don't eat any animals" once I said "I don't eat anything with eyes" and then someone pipes in

"you don't eat potatoes?"

smarty pants.

[jaurequi]

LOL!
Well, I have to admit that's a good comeback! Drat!

I've gotten into similar things and have had to go farther because skallops and clams don't have eyes :)

~Do they??~ Lol

[honeybee joy]

Well thanks for the info. I haven't had the chance to read the whole thing about why honey is not vegan, but I will. I have about a hour to read a book that is due back to the library. I should have listened to my heart the first time I thought about honey not being vegan. I feel like a idiot.
Well thanks
Lissa

[sport]

I am late to this post but an definatly vegan and shudder at the thought of being beegan. No honey, No wax made by bees and no animal products or byproducts in my toiletries

[Sicilian Girl]

Just a quick question...let me preface it by saying I am not looking for a fight here. I am asking an honest question...that said..

Are insects considered animals? If honey is not vegan because it's an "animal" product, what about the insects that get killed in my lettuces, fruits etc (even organic ones)? Seriously not looking for a fight, please please please, don't take it that way. I am just curious how this works as I want to honor this way of life.

[Secret Heart]

Hi Sicilian,

Taxonomy specifics aside, for me, doing no harm to any living creature is what is important...the more I can prevent, the better...that simple.

Cheers,

Heather

[Sharon in Colorado]

I am late to this post but an definatly vegan and shudder at the thought of being beegan. No honey, No wax made by bees and no animal products or byproducts in my toiletries

You're a poet
And didn't know it

[Revvell]

For me, this "way of life" is about my health first. The animals come second. My way is, take care of me first ~ then that extends out to the rest of the universe.

R.


Just a quick question...let me preface it by saying I am not looking for a fight here. I am asking an honest question...that said..

Are insects considered animals? If honey is not vegan because it's an "animal" product, what about the insects that get killed in my lettuces, fruits etc (even organic ones)? Seriously not looking for a fight, please please please, don't take it that way. I am just curious how this works as I want to honor this way of life.

[micki]

Honey is not vegan. The meaning of vegan is that all your edibles come from plant sources.
I have occasionally used honey, but prefer maple syrup for the taste..
but being 100 percent raw puts the kaibosh on maple syrup, so I'm back to honey.
Where I live there are a number of good humane beekeepers in the area who sell really raw honey. Their bees are cared for and have access to wonderful organic blackberry bushes that grow wild all over here, they're not fed non nutritious sugar water. The beekeepers I know always leave some honey in the hive for the bees.
I don't feel bad about using raw honey since I don't use much, and really prefer the natural sweetness of fruits and fruit juices for most things.

[ReneeSC]

For me, this "way of life" is about my health first. The animals come second. My way is, take care of me first ~ then that extends out to the rest of the universe.

R.

How totally simplistic :) I like it. What good are we if we don't take care of ourselves? I love the universe, too, but I can't run the universe, I have to run myself.

I'm not vegan. Vegetarian, yes. I still wear the silk and the leather that I've had before raw, and until I find some reason personal to me not to.. I will.

We use two sorts of honey: YS, and Really Raw Honey. The keepers baby their bees. Happy bees make happy honey. I used these two varieties because they're not heated or treated in any way - and their glycemic index is low, while their healing properties are high.

I use it all of the time, and I was going into insulin. When I was ill, I would eat it by the spoonfull. Felt great!

Now, if I felt that their bees were being mistreated - I'd have lots of second thoughts.

[Sharon in Colorado]

There was a discussion a while back started by Sweet G. She found some info about really raw honey. It needs to say "unheated" on the label, as even if it says raw or uncooked it still could have been heated above 115 during processing.

[Imogen]

How about agave nectar or dates as a substitute.

I still use raw honey and listen intently to the vegan honey discussions.
I don't feel it (yet) that I am hurting or robbing the bees. They are going to make honey without losing their lives, joyously as part of their daily lives, anyway.
It's what they do.

Having said that, I totally respect the opinions and classifications of chosen, vegan/raw vegan/ vegetarians/ beegan (I know there's a lot more clasifications)

I definately feel strongly about murdering violently an animal so we can eat the dead carcass. (brings tears to my eyes) I feel that!!

[littleangelbear]

This post made me think a lot about my own beliefs about myself and my diet.

I think all food we eat has an energetic vibration that is affected by who grows it or raises it, how it is shipped, how it is prepared, etc., etc. I also realized I can affect this vibration myself when I prepare my food by sending my food love and energy. Interesting, huh? :) Just food for thought ;)

I also realized I can never really call myself a vegan 100 percent...Why? I was thinking about my medication I take...It's Armour Thyroid. I can't take Synthroid for my low thyroid condition. Armour Thyroid comes from the pig. I only take a small pill (50 mg.) per day, but chances are, I am going to take this medication for life. So, this is a choice I had to make for my health. However, I feel healthier taking this medication and have more energy and feel I can help serve others as a result more effectively :) Every morning, I thank the little animals who help my thyroid and my body be healthy...I feel this helps 'karmically' for myself as well as helping the medication work the best for me.

I do eat honey, btw, but I have researched the source and I do muscle testing on myself prior to buying any honey, asking if it is 'karmically' appropriate for my health.

It is interesting to think about myself in these ways...I love hearing the myriad of views about different dietary issues. It's nice that everyone here considers these things...That means a lot.

Thank you :)

Bear hugs,
Lisa

[Sharon in Colorado]

Lisa how do you do muscle testing on yourself?

[micki]

Yes, I've been using dates instead of honey more recently as I prefer their taste (they taste closer to my once beloved maple syrup).
I too am not a "true" vegan since I still use silk, wool, leather. But eventually, who knows? Perhaps I'll gradually switch.

[ReneeSC]

There was a discussion a while back started by Sweet G. She found some info about really raw honey. It needs to say "unheated" on the label, as even if it says raw or uncooked it still could have been heated above 115 during processing.

To follow up on Sharon's good point ( no hyjacking intended! just gonna keep it in one place unless you want it moved ) Yes, the container must say unheated. Both RRH and YS have unheated products in thier lines.

Really Raw Honey ( the brand name ) is located here:
http://reallyrawhoney.com/

I only buy honey from those who have public and proven reports on organic growth/keepers and REALLY unheated extractions.

I buy the Really Raw Honey with all of the stuff still in it.. including the propolis. This honey is not clear liquid, but rather a grainy/chewy gel.

YS Keepers are here:
http://www.yahwehsaliveandwell.com/ysroyaljelly.html

I was buying from local farmers, but they use heated extraction. bummer.


______ I've no qualms with anyone who is truly vegan and those who are not. We should all live according to our own consciences. VIVA LA DIFFERANCE!

[Revvell]

[B]
______ I've no qualms with anyone who is truly vegan and those who are not. We should all live according to our own consciences. VIVA LA DIFFERANCE!

Nod,nod,nod.

R.

[britaniefaith]

I eat raw honey and I love it. Not to sound mean or anything but I really despise bee's and I could care less if I am hurting them or not... they never seem to care about stinging me so why should I care about eating their honey?? I don't think so.