raw cassava for making flour

[Non]

Well I saw this link: http://www.coupleofpics.com/cassava-bread-making/

It mentions process where they drain the toxin from raw cassava for use in making flour. I thought hm.. cassava was a big crop for the Taino indians, I wonder if there were any use for it raw, knowing raw cassava is actually poisonous with the cyanogenic glycoside.


I'm just wondering if one can make raw cassava flour and make essene bread out of this. Would be an interesting experiment.

[MysticTree]

Well I saw this link: http://www.coupleofpics.com/cassava-bread-making/

It mentions process where they drain the toxin from raw cassava for use in making flour. I thought hm.. cassava was a big crop for the Taino indians, I wonder if there were any use for it raw, knowing raw cassava is actually poisonous with the cyanogenic glycoside.


I'm just wondering if one can make raw cassava flour and make essene bread out of this. Would be an interesting experiment.

I find this post rather confusing. Why even mess with cassava when you can make a raw essene bread such as this http://debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com/2008/04/wheat-part-ii-how-to-make-essene-bread.html without.

If you just want a good raw bread, the you can try these http://www.rawtimes.com/r-essenebread.html or any of the raw bread recipes you may find online or in various raw books.

Why do you want to get cassava flour involved?



(http://debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com/2008/04/wheat-part-ii-how-to-make-essene-bread.html)

[RawnieColeman]

Good thread! I've been reading up on cassava lately too. I know that I can be almost completely detoxed by soaking in water, then creating a paste and sun drying. Finally it's processed into a sticky dough that's then fermented into something called Tapai:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapai

"The culture can be naturally captured from the wild, by mixing rice flour with ground spices (include garlic, pepper, chili, cinnamon), cane sugar or coconut water, slices of ginger or ginger extract, and water to make a dough.[2] The dough is pressed into round cakes, about 3cm across and 1 cm thick, and left to incubate on trays with banana leaves under and over them for two to three days. They are then dried and stored, ready for their next use."

I haven't attempted yet as the process seems pretty involved, but I will definitely try it someday after I've acquired some more experience with fermenting stuff.

I imagine after you have the fermented cakes, you can mix with just about anything you like and then dehydrate into thin sheets.

[MysticTree]

Good thread! I've been reading up on cassava lately too. I know that I can be almost completely detoxed by soaking in water, then creating a paste and sun drying. Finally it's processed into a sticky dough that's then fermented into something called Tapai:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapai

"The culture can be naturally captured from the wild, by mixing rice flour with ground spices (include garlic, pepper, chili, cinnamon), cane sugar or coconut water, slices of ginger or ginger extract, and water to make a dough.[2] The dough is pressed into round cakes, about 3cm across and 1 cm thick, and left to incubate on trays with banana leaves under and over them for two to three days. They are then dried and stored, ready for their next use."

I haven't attempted yet as the process seems pretty involved, but I will definitely try it someday after I've acquired some more experience with fermenting stuff.

I imagine after you have the fermented cakes, you can mix with just about anything you like and then dehydrate into thin sheets.

Can I just point out that the link you have provided specifically states that cassava is cooked.

I don't think that there is any need to mess with cyanide when there are lots of other things to eat.

[Shona]

I find this post rather confusing. Why even mess with cassava when you can make a raw essene bread such as this http://debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com/2008/04/wheat-part-ii-how-to-make-essene-bread.html without.

If you just want a good raw bread, the you can try these http://www.rawtimes.com/r-essenebread.html or any of the raw bread recipes you may find online or in various raw books.

Why do you want to get cassava flour involved?



(http://debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com/2008/04/wheat-part-ii-how-to-make-essene-bread.html)

I agree. You can use wheat, spelt or kamut (or a combination of the three) to make Essene bread.

[Non]

Can I just point out that the link you have provided specifically states that cassava is cooked.

I don't think that there is any need to mess with cyanide when there are lots of other things to eat.


Maybe he was just referring an idea or basic recipe similar to that one but raw.

[MysticTree]

Maybe he was just referring an idea or basic recipe similar to that one but raw.

no, the cassava mentioned is cooked

[MysticTree]

raw cassava kills people, regularly and it kills people who supposedly know that it needs careful and laborious preparation before even being cooked.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-03/10/content_423641.htm

[Non]

even after it is cooked? hm... thanks

I didn't know it was so poisonous. I though it could be neutralized by some natural means.

[RawnieColeman]

Nobody is suggesting you eat it if you are worried about the risks.

I'm acutely aware of the risks involved in cassava. I'm also aware, in spite of the obvious drawbacks, it is still one of the top five food sources in the world. In almost every area where cassava grows it's equally feasible to grow sweet potato (Africa) or rice instead (Southeast Asia) instead, yet billions of people continue undertake the risks and added labor in growing and processing it for safe consumption.

The Tapai I linked is traditionally cooked, so is wheat bread. It doesn't have to be. After performing a three step detoxifying process of prolonged pre-soaking and rinsing, sun-drying and finally fermenting the cassava is safe for consumption as is, without cooking.

Also, the popular supplement form of B-12 contains cyanide which must be detoxed by the body. You probably get a higher dosage of free form cyanide from a vitamin tab or a Rockstar then you do with properly prepared Tapai. Just puttin that out there.

[MysticTree]

Vitamin supplements don't kill you and as it happens I don't use them but that isn't really my issue with this thread. Traditional bread is certainly cooked and I know it doesn't have to be but then it doesn't kill you if you eat Essene bread so comparing the two isn't comparing like with like.

The issue I have with this thread is that it could lead people to think raw cassava is ok and it isn't. Even well soaked cassava only removes some of this toxin - about 50%, I have read, in 24 hours.

Cassava is a cooked food not sensible to be messed with in its raw state.

If you want to mess with it then that is up to you but you need to realise that people read a forum and don't necessarily follow a method properly and with cassava that is dicing with death and I wouldn't want a death on my conscience and I doubt you would either.

[RawnieColeman]

As with most misleading information only half the story is being presented here.

There are two varieties of cassava, the sweet and the bitter kind. The bitter kind can have up to ten times the cyanide as the sweet variety; and is almost exclusively the culprit of sickness and death. Yet farmers continue to mass produce it because bugs wont eat it and it saves money on pesticides. Domestic farmers prefer to grow and consume the sweet variety which is obviously safer and healthier.

Only the sweet variety is sold in super markets the United States.


Even well soaked cassava only removes some of this toxin - about 50%, I have read, in 24 hours.Which is why I plainly recommended that it also be sun-dried and fermented in order to completely discharge that remaining 50%, twice in fact. If sweet cassava is processed in this manner, it's less toxic than a B-12 supplement, in which I agree with you, never has nor ever will kill anyone.


dicing with death and I wouldn't want a death on my conscience and I doubt you would either. Three supermarkets in my area sell yuca root as well as rhubarb, which is probably more poisonous than sweet yuca when eaten raw. So what. I sense an in-ordinate amount of fear over this common vegetable.

Myself I'm not easily swayed by media fear mongering. Knowing the potential health risks of Yuca, and lack of regulations in some parts of the world, you would have to be pretty foolish to buy from a street vendor. For all we know some Southeast Asian yuca mogul is going around poisoning street vendors in order to scare up regulatory efforts and control the public market, it's not unheard of. Similar scare tactics occur here in the States in the form of Swine Flu and other health scares so the medical industry can goad the public into being guinea pigs for the latest broad spectrum anti-biotic.

Anyway bottom line is, eat the food at your own risk (which is likely more minimal than certain media would have you believe)

PS: I don't wanna feed a flame war here. MysticTree: as raw foodist in general I bow to your knowledge, but this happens to be a topic that I've done some homework on. I find it frustrating when people allow there opinions to be swayed by one bad article, if that were the case then I wouldn't have even considered trying a raw lifestyle

/rant

[MysticTree]

I am a forager by profession. I know the dangers of giving people information that they aren't able to fully (no pun intended) digest.

There are that are edible raw that are commonly, and for good reason, labeled as poisonous. I am thinking of a berry which is delicious but which I never recommend that people should eat because I cannot be sure they will always follow the rule that will keep them safe.

What I fear more than the vegetables that need careful processing is the idiotic behaviour of people who read about something incompletely and then go out and kill themselves with their ignorance. This happened with fungi quite recently. Some people decided to pick some wild mushrooms and cook them and eat them. They had no particular fungi knowledge and so hadn't really any idea what they were doing but foraging has been hugely popular over here and so they thought that all it meant was finding something suitably meaty and picking it and eating it.

All I care about here is that people aren't encouraged to process something that they aren't fully equipped with knowledge to process correctly/safely etc.

[RawnieColeman]

Fair nuff', people are generally cocky & careless when it comes to new stuff. First time I did deadlifts in the gym I compressed a lower lumbar disk because I failed to fully read instructions and ended up compressing as disk in my lower back. I'm not paralyzed though, and I deadlift three times as much now as I did then.

I'm gonna go ahead and do a TL;DR now because this article is very long, and thorough:

1) People who eat Cassava as a rule, are virtually immune to cancer.

2) Another name for this 'deadly' compound called Cyanogenic Glucoside, is vitamin B-17. It's also found in apricot seeds & plain ole' strawberries.

3) The article you cited as supporting evidence, claims that a small snack (probably no bigger than an apple) hospitalized over 120 people and cause 13 people to drop dead. If cassava was indeed that poisonous, it would be killing more people than heart disease. Seriously, I can smell the B.S. from 2 continents away.

4) Apparently Cassava gives off deadly cyanide gasses when it is prepared. Ok, so obviously people should be wearing gas masks and gloves when they prepare it right??

http://www.coupleofpics.com/cassava-bread-making/0010-img_7862b.jpg

http://www.coupleofpics.com/cassava-bread-making/0046-img_7870b.jpg

http://www.coupleofpics.com/cassava-bread-making/0199-img_7787b.jpg

http://www.coupleofpics.com/cassava-bread-making/3250-img_7894.jpg

4) Ok, so the toxic liquid that comes from Cassava, that's strong enough to kill a cow ... THAT get's discarded ... right? Nnnnnnnope!


The cyanogenic glycoside juice has various uses. It can be used as a starch agent or when boiling and sweetened in the sun it can be used as an antiseptic, to help preserve meat and to flavour foods. This preservative is called "carareep". In addition, the fermented juice makes intoxicating liquor.

[RawnieColeman]

Without further pre-amble here is my supporting evidence (some of which is anecdotal, and some is based on research):

NATURAL SOURCE
Laetrile is not a miracle drug. It is simply a concentrated form of Nitriloside. Amygdalin (Laetrile/ Vitamin B17) is particularly prevalent in the seeds of those fruits in the Prunus Rosacea family (bitter almond, apricot, blackthorn, cherry, nectarine, peach and plum.) It is found in natural foods which contain nitriloside and has been used and studied extensively for well over 100 years. It is also contained in grasses, maize, sorghum, millet, cassava, linseed, apple seeds, and many other foods that, generally, have been deleted from the menus of modern civilization. Fruit kernels or seeds generally have other nutrients as well, some protein, unsaturated fatty protein, unsaturated fatty acids, and various minerals. The most common source of B17 is the apricot kernel and is present in about a 2-3 percent levels of concentration within the seed kernel.

So there is no confusion please note; there are 3 names which are interchangeable being Vitamin B17, Laetrile and Amygdalin. Vitamin B17 was the name given to the purified form of Amygdalin by a Bio Chemist named Ernst T Krebs in 1952. He also called it Laetrile which is simply short for Lavo-mandelonitrile and was awarded its vitamin status officially in 1952 after advice from Dr Dean Burke who was the co-founder of the National Cancer Institute. Amygdalin on the other hand is said to have been first discovered and used by a German chemist Leibig as far back as 1830. So, laetrile/Vitamin B17 on the other hand is simply a more soluable and concentrated form of amygdalin which allows it to be administered in a much greater concentration. Either way all 3 are essentially the same thing.

Vitamin B17 / Laetrile is probably one of the most controversial medical topics in the last 30 years. You may remember back in the 50’s – mid 70’s there was a lot hype in the medical world regarding a new natural cancer treatment that was discovered that killed cancer cells. This was the result of Dr Ernst Krebs findings and his research in a book called World Without Cancer. Well after several years of court cases and controversy regarding Laetrile it was finally stamped out by the FDA and reported to the mass media in the US as a fraud and failure. They called it Quackery in those days.

TODAY the hype has and is starting again as a result of THE INTERNET. The internet has allowed us to gain information from all over the world on what perhaps really happened.

So how does B17 kill cancer?…… Here we go….

Firstly we need to understand that our bodies use several enzymes to perform many tasks. Our body has one particular enzyme called Rhodanese which is found in large quantities throughout the body but is not present where ever there are cancer cells. Yet, where ever you find cancer in the body, you find another enzyme called Beta-Glucosidase. So, we have the enzyme Rhodanese found everywhere in the body except at the cancer cells, and we have the enzyme Beta-Glucosidase found in very large quantities only at the cancer cell but not found anywhere else in the body. If there is no cancer in the body there is no enzyme Beta-Glucosidase.

Now the following is what scares most people. You see, Vitamin B17 is made up of 2 parts glucose, 1 part Hydrogen Cyanide and 1 part Benzaldehyde (analgesic/painkiller). So its very important you understand the following:

When B17 is introduced to the body, it is broken down by the enzyme Rhodanese. The Rhodanese breaks the Hydrogen Cyanide and Benzaldehyde down into 2 by-products, Thiocyanate and Benzoic acid which are beneficial in nourishing healthy cells and forms the metabolic pool production for vitamin B12. Any excess of these by-products is expelled in normal fashion from the body via urine. Vitamin B17 passes through your body and does not last longer than 80 minutes inside your body as a result of the Rhodanese breaking it down. (Hydrogen Cyanide has been proven to be chemically inert and non toxic when taken as food or refined pharmaceutical such as laetrile. Sugar has be shown to be 20 times more toxic than B17.)

Good & Bad Cyanide?

We all know that cyanide is bad for you, yet here we are jumping up and down saying its good for you because it kills cancer. Lets look at the real story.

Hydrogen Cyanide must be FORMED!! There is no free Hydrogen Cyanide in laetrile floating around freely in our body waiting to harm us when we eat apricot seeds or take laetrile. The enzyme Beta-Glucosidase, and only that enzyme is capable of manufacturing and forming the Hydrogen Cyanide from Laetrile. If there are no cancer cells in the body, there is no beta-glucosidase. If there is no beta-glucosidase, no hydrogen cyanide will be formed from laetrile. Even if there were some other way to manufacture cyanide from laetrile in the body, the amount would be so minute it would have little, if any toxic effect.

Laetrile does on the other hand contain the cyanide radical (CN-). So does Vitamin B12 , Cassava and strawberries and a host of other foods we consume. You never heard of anyone getting cyanide poison from vitamin B12 or from eating strawberries because it just does not happen. Lets also look at table salt which is made up of sodium Chloride (NaCl) and is very common in most households. Yet, did you know pure sodium (Na+) is one of the most toxic substances known to man? Yet in their form locked together they are not toxic. Any good toxicologist will tell you sugar is 20 times more toxic than laetrile and salt is also much more toxic.

Now, here is the irony of all of this. Milligram for milligram, the chemotherapeutic agents which are commonly used in the treatment of cancer today, are hundreds of times more toxic than laetrile.

The best way to prove or disprove the vitamin B17 theory of cancer, would be to take several thousands of people, over a period of many years, expose them to a consistent diet of B17 rich nitriloside foods and then check the results. Fortunately this has already occurred by the study of the following cultures; The Hunza, aboriginal Eskimos, Hopi and Navajo Indians, Abkhazians.

HUNZA
In the remote recesses of the Himalayan Mountains, between West Pakistan, India and China there is a tiny Kingdom called Hunza. These people are known world over for their amazing longevity and health. They live well beyond 100 years and have commonly been known to still father children at the age of 110. One of the first medical teams to study the Hunza was headed by world-renown British surgeon Dr Robert McCarrison. Writing in the AMA Journal Jan 7, 1922 he reported:

“The Hunza has no known incidence of cancer. They have an abundant crop of apricots. These they dry in the sun and use largely in their food”.

It is interesting to note that the traditional Hunza Diet contains over 200 times more nitriloside (B17 Rich food) than the average American or Australian Diet. There is no such thing as money in Hunza. A mans wealth is measured by the number of apricot trees he owns. And the most prized of all foods was considered to be the apricot seed. It is very common for the Hunza to eat between 30 – 50 (ie. about 30mg of B17) apricot seeds as an after lunch snack. The thousands of seeds they do not eat they store or grind them very finely and then squeezed under pressure to produce a very rich oil used in cooking and to apply to the skin. The apricot is staple food in Hunza. They use the apricot, its seed and the oil for practically everything. In addition to the ever present apricot, the hunzahuts eat mainly grain and fresh vegetables. These include buckwheat, millet, alfalfa, peas, broad beans, turnips, lettuce, sprouting pulse and berries of various sorts. All of these with the exception of lettuce and turnips contain vitamin B17.

It is important to know when the Hunza leave their secluded land and adopt the menus of other countries, they soon succumb to the same diseases and infirmities including cancer as the rest of man kind.

ESKIMOS
The Eskimos are another people that have been observed by medical teams for many decades and found to be totally free of cancer. The traditional Eskimo diet is amazingly rich in B17 nitrilosides that come from the residue of of the meat of caribou and other grazing animals, and also from the salmon berry. Another Eskimo delicacy is green salad made out of the stomach contents of caribou and reindeer which are full of fresh tundra grass. Tundra grasses such as Arrow are have shown to be contain the highest content of B17 than other grasses.

Alaska’s most famous doctor Dr Preston A Price claims that, “In his 36 years of contact with these people he had never seen a single case of malignant disease among the truly primitive Eskimos, although it frequently occurred when they were modernized.

An interesting point to note is that when an Eskimo leaves his traditional way of life and begins to rely on a western/modern diet he becomes even more cancer prone than the average American.

HOPI & NAVAJO INDIANS
The Indians of North America are another people who are remarkably free from cancer. The AMA went as far as conducting a special study in an effort to discover why there was little to no cancer amongst the Hopi and Navajo Indians. The February 5, 1949 issue of the journal of the American Medical Association declared that they found 36 cases cases of malignant cancer from a population of 30,000. In the same population of white persons there would have been about 1800. Dr Krebs research later found that the typical diet for the Navajo and Hopi Indian consisted of nitriloside-rich foods such as Cassava. He calculated that some of the tribes would ingest the equivalent of 8000mg of Vitamin B17 per day from their diet !!!

[RawnieColeman]

He calculated that some of the tribes would ingest the equivalent of 8000mg of Vitamin B17 per day from their diet !!!According to wiki (did you notice the evidence was uncited?) that's enough poison to kill 200 cows. Those Indian's sure are a hardy bunch! :woohoo:

Let me finish off this response by once again admitting: If I had turned my nose up towards everything that big media companies labeled as the devil, I wouldn't be here learning about the myriad benifit's of livin' raw would I? I have much love for everyone here, and their own unique contribution towards my extremely limited knowledge of this lifestyle in general :woot: Thanks for takin the time to educate me.

[MysticTree]

I am happy that I have done my best to be sure that people don't just go willy-willy into the business of eating raw cassava. That was my goal. If you want to eat it raw then do let us know how you get on and do be sure to correctly process it.

[RawnieColeman]

I appreciate your willingness to take counterpointed position in a mature manner, I know more about Yuca today than I did yesterday.

My grandfather was a full blooded Cherokee indian you see, and I read somewhere Yuca was a big tradition of most American Indians (using it in a myriad of both nutritional and topical applications) so that's what sparked my initial interest. I'm more compelled now garner some first hand experience with this mystery root than before.

[R'Mila]

Wow, that was some very interesting information. Thanks for posting and thanks for the source.

[rochan]

The dough is pressed into round cakes, about 3cm across and 1 cm thick, and left to incubate on trays with banana leaves under and over them for two to three days. They are then dried and stored, ready for their next use. I didn't know it was so poisonous. I though it could be neutralized by some natural means.

[RawnieColeman]

The dough is pressed into round cakes, about 3cm across and 1 cm thick, and left to incubate on trays with banana leaves under and over them for two to three days. They are then dried and stored, ready for their next use. I didn't know it was so poisonous. I though it could be neutralized by some natural means.Phew, TBH I was hesitant to revisit this thread, I was expecting more flames! I've been spending too much time on body building forums, if you na'mean?

I guess that all depends on whose explanation you choose to believe? Wiki's most damaging evidence is suspiciously un-cited, and just because something has been 'linked' to a disease does not make it hard scientific fact. Not too long ago, any and all fat consumption was 'linked' to heart disease. Also thanks to FDA's maddening lack of social responsibility, no GMO will ever be 'linked' to a disease because labeling is not required, therefore no damaging evidence will ever be associated with it!

I mean, not ONE store that sell's Yuca has a sign, or a product label that says "Warning, this crap will kill you dead if it's not prepared correctly". And yet Wal-Mart and three other large food chain stores in my area all carry this potential million dollar liability, without so much as a single disclaimer?? I mean seriously, they put disclaimers on peanuts that says "warning product contains peanuts" just to be 100% sure that their butt's are covered!

But hey, that being said ... It wouldn't hurt to be cautious preparing it for the first time. Until you know how your body will react to the food you should eat it in small doses, just to be safe!