Mercury Removal Experience?

[Davylp25]

Hi...

I was wondering those who have had mercury removal done... What the experience was like? Not the dental experience, but the after? Did you lose weight? Feel more energized? Sinuses clear? Anything? What was your exp?

[Arky]

Personally, I'm in the midst of the chelation process, not at the end of it, but if you read blogs such as:

MercuryStories.com (I particularly recommend the book, Getting The Mercury Out)

and

whatidontknow.net/blog/for-billy/


You'll be reading real biographical details of the experience before, during and after chelation by both these courageous women (they both followed Andy Cutler's 'Frequent-Dosing' protocol, using Alpha Lipoic Acid etc.).


If you wish to engage in dialogues with people who are currently undergoing chelation, at varying stages, then I highly recommend joining the Yahoo! Groups:

'Frequent Dose Chelation' : http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/frequent-dose-chelation/

and

'Adult Metal Chelation' : http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/adult-metal-chelation/

They offer a wealth of information both 'live' and archived.


Also see:

mercurypoisoned.com/groups.html


Let me know if you need any more pointers.

All the best.

[terry brown]

Arky--I have been reading your posts. You are very knowledgeable.

Davylp25---I had mine removed about 6 years ago. I was seeing a holistic dentist and had full trust in him.
He took out an entire mouth full in I day, it took 8 hours.
I was ok for about 3 days then the sickest feeling hit me. I was so sick for about 3 months. Actually thought I was going to die. The dentist was trying to helped me holistically and I knew I could not even go to the emergency room as they would not know what to do with me.
I am glad I got them out but I never would do all in one day and I do not think this dentist did what other holistic dentists do to prevent this sort of thing from happening.
It was a nightmare.

Terry

[Davylp25]

So Terry, after the storm passed, did you notice changes in your physical life? Such as?

[terry brown]

No, I can't say that I have noticed feeling better. Actually things got good for a while then I got ill with CFS and stuff. That's what brought me here to Raw Food. (which is great)
I feel better knowing there is no mercury leaking from my teeth though...
I think everyone should do it, but should also be VERY careful.

[Raw Angel Mom]

I did and i enjoy it. I am doing a more live food, so it is hard for me to notice a difference because i keep upgrading my life style.

I will have a check up soon from my doctor and i will be able to compare the result. My dentist who is a naturopath, gave me a list with each tooth to the corresponding meridian and organ to this tooth. I had problem with each one of my filling. Once i have my result, i will see how my body is doing. It has been over one year that i got that done. I had to do one side at the time on four session and i had to wait minimum of 2 months in between. During that time, i was given a list of food rich of sulphur and i had to include this in my diet. Sulphur dissolves mercury.

I have no regret. I think this is like someone doing raw food, they feel great then they go back to cook and feel the difference more. I think, i would notice the difference more if i was to put back the mercury filling. Anyway, my test will speak for themselves.

You need to research for a dentist in your area that remove mercury safely and that was trained and certify for this.

The downside, is that i had more tooth sensitivity afterward due to the equipment they use (metal to hold their stuff etc....). The good news, is with raw coconut oil and swirling my mouth with it, did the trick and promoted healing.

All the best!

[Davylp25]

I see... To TerryBrown-- So you didnt chelate afterwards? You just removed them? Glad youre feeling better>

[terry brown]

Yes, the dentist had me chelate during those 3 months and also chelated for a few weeks prior.
He was surprised at the reaction I had as he had not seen it in any other patients. But in my research afterwards I read that what happened to me ccan and does happen.

[Arky]

I see... To TerryBrown-- So you didnt chelate afterwards? You just removed them? Glad youre feeling better>

You read my mind, Davylp25; my question exactly!



Terry, if you didn't chelate, then what would almost certainly occur is that the mercury vapour released during removal of your amalgams would have entered the bloodstream, remained there for a month or two, some of it may have been excreted successfully via the bile, but the large quantity would likely have rapidly overwhelmed your hepato-biliary system (such is the extreme toxicity of mercury, and its ability to disable the very detoxification organs and pathways on which the body relies for excretion of mercury) and then gradually made it's way into various tissues, organs and crossed the blood-brain barrier into the brain. This would undoubtedly offer a very plausible and probable explanation for your CFS (particularly from a mercury-induced endocrine disruption and endocrine stress perspective).

You mention a 3 month period of particular ill-health. Well, this would fit into the above pattern of gradual mercury redistribution within the body, and although you haven't outlined anything, I am fairly confident that you will have experienced, over the following 6 years, a wide array of seemingly-unrelated health symptoms, some consistent and some progressive in their development. In addition to the CFS, I anticipate you may have developed sensitivities to certain foods that you previously had no trouble eating. Foods like eggs (OK they're not vegan but I'm speaking in legitimate context here), nightshades, corn etc. Probably some bowel inflammation here and there, maybe lowered immune resistance to infections, some muscular tics from time to time - anywhere in the body but particularly likely in the left of the face, ringing in the ears, changes in quality of vision. Weakness in the legs. I could go on...
Do any of these sound familiar to you..?


If you noticed my exchange with Kate, in this thread:

http://rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?p=668092#post668092 (please pardon the original thread title, prior to Kate and I going off-topic with our tangential discussion)

...then you'll notice how much I mention mercurys destructive effects upon the endocrine system , of which the adrenals and the thyroid are notable component organs.

If you hadn't read that thread, please take a listen to this podcast:

www.healthcentersofthefuture.com/DrCutler/

...it may answer many questions for you that may have been at the back of your mind ever since your amalgams were removed.

All the best.


.

[terry brown]

I feel like I am opening a can of worms. I knew you would have something to say about this Arky!! :)
Here is the deal in a nut shell. I had CFS after my daughter had Mono about 10 years ago. This lead me to research and get the mercury out of my teeth.
After that initial hell of 3 months I began to feel great. All cleared out.
Then a few years later I got CFS again(saw homeopatic docs and got on supplements.) Started feeling well again and 3 years ago the CFS came back big time and with it Lups and MS type symptoms. I gave up sugar and Wheat (already a vegan). Went to typical doctors and nothing was found. Then I went raw. Things improved big time. I felt great for a while. Also under the care of a great chiropractor during this time. So now, I seem to be getting tired again and do have muscle soreness, numbness and the original symptoms, just not as bad.
So do you think it is mercury leaking from my tissues?
What do i do? I am overwhelmed with information and not sure where to go or what to do. My newest natural MD just did a test for mercury in the blood, but I read what you had to say about that in another post and it seems that information will not really be helpful.
This is all a little scary to me.
Thanks so much.

[Revvell]

I had all mine removed, nothing special did I feel; still don't; no chelation, no illnesses.

[terry brown]

Arky-- just listened to the interview. Very informative!
I wonder if these doctors can recommend local doctors that use the protecol.
I feel nervous to do it on my own.
Lots to take in!
Do you need a prescription for DMSA?
Do you get detox symptoms when you start the DMSA and ALA every few hours.
Thank you. I feel this may just be an issue for me.

[Arky]

Terry, I'm not sure what timezone you're in. I'm in the UK and am at work at the moment; I'll have more time to address your questions in detail in about 12 hours or so but in the meantime, I'll just briefly tell you that no, DMSA doesn't generally require a prescription, although some states / countries may require it.

In the UK, I don't require a prescription for DMSA.

ALA is the primary chelation substance with Andy Cutler's protocol, though, and that's easily and widely available without prescription.


Thankyou for making the effort to browse related posts on the forum - i don't know if you picked up the following link during your perusal of those posts, but I'll repost it here because in your case ("MS type symptoms"), this is very specifically relevant:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7304626579881289841

(thanks again to Áine for the link)


Rest assured, I'll be back to provide more details for you within the next 12-24 hours, just have to get on with my day job until then ;) .

All the best.


.

[terry brown]

I really appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge.
I eagerly await to hear what you have to say.

I wanted to add a few things that I thought about last night.
1. I started taking ALA about 3 months ago. one everyday. I noticed I started feeling poorly again. I heard on the pod cast that you should not take ALA if you are not doing the protocol, because it could release mercury back into your blood, but not out of your body. Do I have that right? So I should stop with the ALA until and if I decide to do the chelation?
2. Does his books lay out the protocol and all the info needed? I plan to order it.
3. For the past 6 years I have taken 75 mg of iron a day to get my ferritin levels up. They have only gone from 10 to 35. They should be in the 100's. I am wondering if the mercury is interfering with the absorption. I am not anemic though. You would think with all of the iron I would be over mineralized in it.
4. I already asked you but do you experience symptoms while doing this? Due to the hell I went through I am very scared to mess with mercury removal in my body.
5. My symptoms despite a very healthy diet(all raw and balanced) and extremely healthy life style(yoga, breath work, prayer, good living, great family and work, holistic doc care for years,affirmation, positve attitude etc...)
are fatigue (crashing at times) joint pain, muscle soreness, numbing on the right side of my body, difficulty with breath, brain fog that comes and goes.
All of these symptom come in cycles.

I think that is all.
I am grateful for your help and I am grateful for this forum that offers so much helpful information and a place to share.

~Terry

[Arky]

I wonder if these doctors can recommend local doctors that use the protecol.


For recommendations on this, the best place to ask would be the Adult Metal Chelation Yahoo! Group and/or the Frequent Dose Chelation Yahoo! Group




I feel nervous to do it on my own.


That's understandable, there are doctors who can help you (though I don't know your exact geographic location and if there are no doctors in your immediate area, you may be able to work with one on a remote basis)



Lots to take in!

Yep; I felt the same way, but that didn't stop me learning what I needed to know, thanks to Cutler's books and the determination (and necessity) to apply myself to the task.




I feel this may just be an issue for me.


Given your known exposure to amalgams both during their lifespan, and during the removal procedure, and your stated symptoms which do match those of mercury intoxication, yes, it does appear to be rather strongly indicated that mercury intoxication might be an issue for you.



I'm no whizkid with all of this - I learned because I had to and because of Cutler's books and fellow chelators around the world who follow this protocol and who extend support to each other through the relevant groups/forums. Without these, I'd be in the unfortunate position of understanding my own mercury intoxication much less, and more than likely unwittingly subjecting myself to the perils of various chelation approaches that don't respect kinetics and thus risk enormous levels of mercury redistribution.




1. I started taking ALA about 3 months ago. one everyday. I noticed I started feeling poorly again. I heard on the pod cast that you should not take ALA if you are not doing the protocol, because it could release mercury back into your blood, but not out of your body. Do I have that right?

You have it basically right, yes - taking ALA once a day means that after 3-4 hours, the level of ALA in your bloodstream will have declined significantly, and every moment thereafter will continue to decline to a degree where redistribution of metals will tend to occur. So every day you do this, ALA is 'grabbing' onto a load of mercury from your cells, organs, brain etc., shepherding some of it out of your body, but then 'letting go' of the rest whilst it's circulating in the bloodstream, and once released due to the decayed chelator, it is free to cause damage and settle elsewhere. As you will recall from my discussion of cilantro and the blood-brain barrier, in other threads, mercury circulating in the bloodstream is able to travel across the blood-brain barrier into the brain. So what ALA might have grabbed from your organs might actually end up in your brain. This is why it is so vital to understand the specific researched kinetics of ALA, DMSA, DMPS or whatever, and frequently dose according to the half-life of each substance, thus keeping blood levels stable and thus minimising potential redistribution (although some will still inevitably occur at the end of a 3 day round). ..but I'm sure you'll agree, one event at the end of each 3 day round is infinitely better than multiple such events each week or (Even worse) multiple redistribution events each DAY, if one were to consume cilantro or consume ALA, DMSA, or whatever, at, say 6 or 12 hour intervals.



So I should stop with the ALA until and if I decide to do the chelation?
I'm not a doctor; I can't tell you what to do. However, I can draw your attention towards the above discussion regarding what is scientifically established to be likely to occur, if one fails to dose according to the scientifically-established kinetics of the chelation substance(s) being used - in your case, ALA.




2. Does his books lay out the protocol and all the info needed? I plan to order it.

YES.



3. For the past 6 years I have taken 75 mg of iron a day to get my ferritin levels up. They have only gone from 10 to 35. They should be in the 100's. I am wondering if the mercury is interfering with the absorption. I am not anemic though. You would think with all of the iron I would be over mineralized in it.


I don't know much about iron but I do know, from personal experience, that mercury has deranged my body's ability to appropriately handle several minerals including calcium and zinc (and possibly magneisum, too). LOTS of discussion about the various such effects of mercury intoxication, in the book 'Amalgam Illness', but I sincerely recommend you obtain and familiarise yourself with both Cutler's books Amalgam Illness and Hair Test Interpretation. If you go ahead and get a DDI 'Hair Elements' test (not the 'Toxic Elements' one), you'll see a dispersion pattern of your essential (non toxic) elements readings. In the 'Hair Test Interpretation' book, Cutler outlines some simple statistical 'Counting Rules' which enable one to quickly ascertain the likelihood of one's essential elements readings implying mercury-induced derangement of mineral transport. It only takes 5 minutes to apply these counting rules to your results.



4. I already asked you but do you experience symptoms while doing this? Due to the hell I went through I am very scared to mess with mercury removal in my body.

Yes, mercury requires enormous respect. Only a fool takes it lightly. However, done correctly, as per Cutler's frequent-dosing protocol, which minimises redistribution of metal during chelation, these side effects are tolerable. On a practical, day-to-day level, it's not complex, it just requires discipline, understanding, and care. Plenty of antioxidant support (the metals are highly pro-oxidative and thus when they are being moved, one needs to protect tissues and cells as much as possible from free radicals thus generated. Additionally, as I mentioned earlier, the adrenals (and sometimes the thyroid) require supplemental support. It is not uncommon for people to experience neurological symptoms as part of the process, but then individuals with mercury intoxication often tend to be experiencing these anyway, prior to commencing chelation. Again, I recommend that in addition to Cutler's 2 books, you read Aine's memoir 'Getting the Mercury Out' - it will answer many of your questions. For those who are sensitive to mercury's toxic effects, mercury intoxication is a harrowing experience. For such people, so, too, can be the process of chelation, but it's a case of relatively short-term discomfort for long term gain. There is no magic wand. That said, the closer one chelates according to the known kinetics of the chelation substance(s) (which is the core ethos of Cutler's approach), the more one minimises unpleasant chelation symptoms. This is in stark contrast to other approaches which either do not respect, or are ignorant of, the concept of kinetics. It's your choice whether you choose to accept these side effects for longterm benefit, or whether you instead choose to suffer the effects of mercury resident in your brain, nervous system, organs, gut, and other cells, for the remainder of your life.

There's nothing 'special' about me, or about anyone else on the planet who's undergoing chelation. I'm very wary and respectful of mercury but am nonetheless determined to rid myself of this poison inflicted upon me without my informed consent by the medical establishment. I don't allow myself to hold onto emotions of bitterness or having been wronged, I simply recognise what occurred, on a dispassionate, intellectual level, and take affirmative action to improve my situation. As for you: are you more scared of shifting mercury in your body, or of living the rest of your life in a mercury-intoxicated state? Or perhaps you are most scared of the unknown? I know these discussions re' mercury and its chelation can be awfully overwhelming and intimidating initially, but I wasn't immune to this, myself! I just knew I needed to move forwards, after years of declining health, and that that was going to require applying myself to learning the issues surrounding my chosen path of affirmative action. It's amazing how fast one learns when one is motivated by circumstance.


(CONT. below...)

[Arky]

(CONT. from previous post, above...)




5. My symptoms despite a very healthy diet(all raw and balanced) and extremely healthy life style(yoga, breath work, prayer, good living, great family and work, holistic doc care for years,affirmation, positve attitude etc...)
are fatigue (crashing at times) joint pain, muscle soreness, numbing on the right side of my body, difficulty with breath, brain fog that comes and goes.
All of these symptom come in cycles.


Yes, I understand and empathise so much more than you might think! I, too have gone down MANY avenues of hypotheses, healing modalities, diet etc. etc. etc. Mercury is really remarkable in its ability to carry on destroying health, on so many levels, and so mercilessly, utterly regardless of positive lifestyle changes and multiple healing modalities which would successfully resolve many other health issues. My friend, I feel your pain. You and I are so alike in this respect.

...That said, I recognise that most of life experience is about the state of mind through which one perceives it.

I also recognise that there is no such thing as 'Right' or 'Wrong', 'Good' or 'Bad', 'Positive' or 'Negative'. They're just conceptual labels which, once chosen (often subconscously), warp one's perception of whatever aspect of life experience one is focusing their perception upon in such light.

Consequently, whilst I know, in hindsight, that I was intoxicated with mercury without my informed consent, I also recognise that in spite of the suffering mercury-intoxication has brought me for the best part of a decade, this intoxication has also led me to exploring healing modalities, diet, human physiology, yoga etc. which I might not otherwise have explored without this unpleasant driving force pushing me to seek answers. It's also led me to exchange information and support with hundreds of people around the world, for which I have been very fortunate and which, on the giving side of things, has been very gratifying and worthwhile for me to do. Funny how some of life's greatest personal challenges can be, at one and the same time, some of its greatest gifts...so mercury intoxication isn't all bad, but it's definitely a P.I.T.A. a lot of the time! :D


Just to briefly explore your stated symptoms:



fatigue (crashing at times)

Mmmm, yes, this is absolutely classic - mercury is hugely stressful upon the adrenals. I'm not an endocrinologist so I won't attempt to explain the deeper physiological basis for this, but as I've previously mentioned to Kate, I currently experience adrenal issues myself, and if you participate in the aforementioned Yahoo! Groups, you'll find there is frequent discussion of the interaction between mercury intoxication and adrenal fatigue. It IS treatable. Follow my discussion in Kate's thread for pointers on that (http://rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?p=668092#post668092).


joint pain

Also very common with mercury. Possible contributory mechanisms include mercury's pro-oxidative nature which leads to increased generation of free radicals. Also, mercury generally promotes a tendency by the immune system to favour an inflammatory state. Furthermore, mercury disables many of the detoxification pathways of the liver. Many classical naturopaths observe a distinct relationship between inflammatory conditions of the joints and compromised liver function (e.g see Joseph Pizzorno's mention of this in his book 'Total Wellness' - as I recall, he relates therein that a friend of his had a female relation whose childhood arthritis was completely healed by a naturopath who later told Joseph, when questioned, that this healing was accomplished simply by thoroughly detoxifying the patient's liver. He relates that this was what inspired him to become a naturopath!).




muscle soreness

May relate to general systemic inflammation but, on page 115 of 'Amalgam Illness', Cutler discusses mercurys thyroid-suppressive tendencies and notes, in discussing hypothyroidism, that "Stiffness and aching muscles my occur"



numbing on the right side of my body

Mercury interferes with the nervous system in so many different ways. Numbing, tingling, twitching etc. are all associated with mercury intoxication (although, of course, mercury is not the only possible cause of such symptoms - numbing can obviously be associated with anaemia-related peripheral neuropathies)



difficulty with breath

May be related to nervous system interference but also worth noting that mercurys potent pro-oxidative abilities damage the EFA content of cell membranes, and this can have repercussions for lung function (and is also why vitamin E is an important supplement for mercury-intoxicated individuals).



brain fog that comes and goes.

This is ABSOLUTELY to be expected if one is mercury-intoxicated and is ingesting isolated doses of ALA, as you have described doing. Every time you take an isolated dose (as opposed to a sequence of frequent doses) of ALA, you are promoting redistribution of mercury. You are extremely fortunate that you are not in a worse state from doing this, and although I'm not a doctor, I urge you to read deeper on the relevance and importance of kinetics (e.g. in Andy Cutler's books) so that you may be able to make a more informed choice on the safety, or lack thereof, of continuing with the isolated doses of ALA you have thus far been ingesting on a daily basis.



All of these symptom come in cycles.


You don't mention a time frame, but do you think these cycles relate in any way to the pattern of redistribution I described in my earlier replies?


All the best. If you have any more questions, by all means fire away, but I additionally urge you to participate in the Yahoo! Groups discussions as you'll get a great deal from these.


.

[Arky]

Another excellent resource can be found here:

http://livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/chelation-the-andy-cutler-protocol/

Note that the owner of the above website is actually a contributor on the Yahoo! groups I mentioned.

Please have a good dig around on the website because it contains a wealth of useful information.

And don't forget to browse the 'files' section of the 'Frequent Dose Chelation' Yahoo! group. Once you've conquered your sense of overwhelm (which you will! ;) ), you'll find these files to be a great resource.

[Mary Kay]

I had all of my mercury fillings removed by a so-called holistic dentist. He used a damn (kind of like a diaphragm for your mouth), and I felt assured he was doing it properly.

I felt no different after they were all removed. I had them done over time, not all in one day. I had the final ones removed, oh, a year or two ago.

HTH,

Mary Kay

[terry brown]

You are giving me valuable information and I can not believe all i am learning today!
I am researched out right now with all the links and what not. It has become a crazy maze! :)
Can you please give me a direct link to order the hair test? It looks like they read it for you and send you results. Do i need to order the hair book too from Dr Culter?
THANK YOU, you are very kind. :)

[Arky]

Re' the books, I do recommend you obtain both because they're both chock-full of valuable information which becomes more and more relevant as one progresses.

You can get them directly from Andy Cutler at:

NoAmalgam.com ('Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment')

NoAmalgam.com/hairtestbook.html ('Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities')

(be warned, the website is a little confusing to navigate, although it's quite informative :) )


or you can get them from Amazon.com etc.



I know they're not cheap but the information they contain is worth it, I promise.


Apologies for labouring the point, but this is important:

Even though it seems strange for me to say this, you do not want the 'Hair Toxic Element Exposure' test (which DirectLabs.com may refer to as test #213).

You need to order the standard 'Hair Elements' test (which DirectLabs.com may refer to as test #68).

Unfortunately, their website won't provide a 'direct' link to the test, but if you use this URL:

https://directlabs.com/OrderTests/tabid/55/language/en-US/Default.aspx

...and click on the 'H' of the alphabet, you will then be able to scroll down and select 'Hair Elements' from the list.


.

[terry brown]

Hopefully this post will be a helpful record of information for others...

Arky:

Thanks for the information about the hair, that was confusing me. So now I know where to go. Will they provide a good reading of it for me that I will understand with out a doctor? I am assuming that if the minerals are not looking so hot in my hair that means there is a mercury issue. (LOL I do not write as scientifically as you!)

Next thing on my mind: Once I get the hair analysis back and decide to do this I was thinking DMPS may be the way to go. As I see if stays in the body longer thus I can sleep through the night, until I start ALA. I was thinking I would start with that first. This needs a doctors prescription? I may be able to get that through my Natural MD.

Has anyone ever researched or tried the time released ALA for night? That is what I have and I am thinking that would be good to take at night. One of the worst parts of this to me is having to get up every three hours.

That is all for now. You help is so appreciated.

[terry brown]

Here is a very important question I just thought of and I bet you will have an answer.
I have two titaium implants in my mouth. Will this be a problem with chelation?

[Mary Kay]

Arky,

I was wondering if we do order the standard hair analysis test, do you really think we need to get the book, or will their results tell us what is pertinent to our individual case?

Thanks for all the info,

Mary Kay

[Arky]

...Will they provide a good reading of it for me that I will understand with out a doctor?

No, DDI (the actual Lab) will send the analysis results to Direct Labs who will then email the results to you in .pdf format. Neither DDI or Direct Labs will provide an interpretation of the results. You are correct that interpretation of the results is a skilled task, since the actual readings on the test may not accurately the reflect the reality of what is going on in your body. The skill in interpreting such results lies in the use of various statistical analyses that are able to identify characteristic patterns in the distribution of the various mineral readings. The good news, though, is that Cutler, in his second book, 'Hair Test Interpretation', has done the hard work for you and provided some very simple 'rules', as I mentioned previously. These rules are extremely simple to use, to figure out what your results actually mean. Not only that, but you can upload your hair test to:

http://livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/hairtest/hairtest22/

and then you can ask the folks at the Frequent Dose yahoo! Group, which you are now a member of, to help you in this task (your results will be anonymised before they're posted on the website, so don't worry about that).




I am assuming that if the minerals are not looking so hot in my hair that means there is a mercury issue. (LOL I do not write as scientifically as you!)

There are 5 rules provided in Cutler's book, which will aid in identifying one of the aforementioned 'patterns' of essential mineral readings. If your results concur with one or more rules then, yes, this is highly suggestive of mercury intoxication. This may often occur even if your actual mercury reading is close to nil, because mercury can fail to be excreted via the hair yet nonetheless be present in the body at problematic levels. We can get deeper into that at some point if you like but I think I've mentioned it elsewhere.




Next thing on my mind: Once I get the hair analysis back and decide to do this I was thinking DMPS may be the way to go. As I see if stays in the body longer thus I can sleep through the night, until I start ALA. I was thinking I would start with that first. This needs a doctors prescription? I may be able to get that through my Natural MD.

That's a reasonable possibility.

Bear in mind that our discussion here surrounding the safe use of chelation substances including ALA, DMSA, and DMPS on a frequent-dose schedule, is entirely with respect to oral route of administration.

Also, I would point out that there are generally more important factors, governing choice of chelation substance for any given individual, than simply not wishing to disturb one's sleep pattern, though sleep is, of course, a reasonable thing to additionally consider.

For example, one reason some people prefer to avoid DMSA is that it can have a tendency to suppress neutrophil activity. Neutrophils are an important component of the immune system and since heavy metals such as mercury already have a tendency to suppress immune function, thus increasing likelihood of candida (as was discussed in this thread: http://rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?p=661325#post661325), it can be the case that an individual with an existing case of mercury intoxication and candidiasis may find DMSA thus leads to an undesirable increase in candida activity within their body.

However, all chelation substances have their various foibles, not just DMSA.

If you're in the USA, the practitioner many people following Cutler's protocol tend to consult with is Julie Anderson, in Seattle.




Has anyone ever researched or tried the time released ALA for night? That is what I have and I am thinking that would be good to take at night. One of the worst parts of this to me is having to get up every three hours.

As far as the waking up at night, you'll be surprised at how easy this becomes. Remember, we're not talking about fully waking up, switching the light on, pouring a drink etc. All one needs to do is keep their doses clearly seperated from each other, next to the bed, with a bottle of water (less likely to spill when in a sleepy state), and just reach for the dose when the alarm goes off, without necessarily needing to switch on the light (I leave the light off so I don't confuse my brain that it's morning). Note that sometimes one may wake up and think "Did I take my dose?", and that can be really confusing and, in order to avoid increasing the risks of redistribution of metals within the body, it's extremely important that one does not make mistakes by missing a dose (or taking a double dose). Thus, it is necessary to leave only the correct number of doses by the bed. It's then easy to see/feel if you're correctly on track. Some people use a dosette box labelled with the times of the doses, to be double-sure, although this would require switching a lamp or torch on to view the labels.

Anyway, the point is that the waking up 2 or 3 times a night sounds much worse than it actually turns out to be in practice. Honestly.


Time-release ALA is, unfortunately, not currently a viable option (though I confess I don't know the technical reason). If it was, then everyone would already be using that method. I appreciate the logic, but the practical reality is apparently different. It may be that the 'time-release' function is insufficiently accurate during the manufacturing process and during break-down in the body. One has to remain within 20% accuracy of the scheduled dosage. But don't just take my word for it, have a chat with the members on the Groups :)


.

[Arky]

I had all mine removed, nothing special did I feel; still don't; no chelation, no illnesses.

It is intriguing how much people vary in their sensitivity to mercury, and also how much they vary in their ability to excrete it.

I'm glad you've not perceived any ill-effects from your amalgams or their removal. You're one of the lucky ones (see the video link I posted in this thread).

All the best.

[Arky]

Arky,

I was wondering if we do order the standard hair analysis test, do you really think we need to get the book, or will their results tell us what is pertinent to our individual case?

Thanks for all the info,

Mary Kay


Hi Mary, you generally need the 'Hair Test Interpretation' book if you suspect mercury, because the test results will very probably be skewed by the effects of mercury upon excretory pathways. Thus, you will tend to require the instructions on how to interpret such skewed results appropriately. I'm not a salesman for Andy Cutler; buy the books secondhand for all I care ;) - I'm merely speaking as someone going through all this myself. Ask anyone on the dedicated groups for frequent-dose mercury chelation (seriously, ask them) and they'll tell you the same thing - 'get the books; they're well worth the investment'. Having said that, as I've already mentioned, it is possible to upload your results and have them interpreted on your behalf by Yahoo! Group members with Cutler's book(s). This would only be a stop-gap solution, though, because, in the event that you do establish you are mercury-intoxicated, you're undoubtedly going to require the books for their wide-ranging explanation of mercury, it's effects, what you may need to address in terms of supplemental treatment, what to avoid, how to safely chelate etc. etc.


Take care.


.

[Arky]

Here is a very important question I just thought of and I bet you will have an answer.
I have two titaium implants in my mouth. Will this be a problem with chelation?


As I understand it, unfortunately, yes, it will. To the best of my knowledge, one should absolutely not undergo chelation if there is metal of any sort in the oral cavity.

However, I recommend you address this particular question to the 'Adult Metal Chelation' Group

[terry brown]

Good thing I asked.
Just read about the implant dangers on the site you suggested.
Had a cry over it as removing these implants is a very very very complicated as well as extremely expensive issue. :(

[Arky]

Terry, I'm so sorry you're in such a difficult situation, really I am (you kept quiet, up 'til now, about those implants! ;) I thought you'd eliminated all sources of metal in your mouth, given that I discussed the importance of removal of all sources of exposure in the other threads you read of mine here on the forum, but I see now how my discussions may potentially be interpreted to relate only to amalgam in the mouth, given that the broader topic of these discussions is mercury, rather than the likes of titanium. All the same, I'm glad you mentioned the titanium now).

Re-reading this thread just now, I also noticed your little sub-post:


Yes, the dentist had me chelate during those 3 months and also chelated for a few weeks prior.
He was surprised at the reaction I had as he had not seen it in any other patients.


I'm sorry to say it but your dentist was a fool to recommend you chelate whilst being fully aware you still had amalgam in your mouth. That's irresponsible in the extreme.

But I'm glad you made it through as well as you have, relatively-speaking.


My knowledge doesn't extend as far as removal of titanium implants so your best bet may be to use the Adult Metal Chelation group as a springboard for locating specific information on that topic. You could also contact:

http://www.iaomt.org
http://ToxicTeeth.org

I appreciate that it is now going to take some time for you to consider your next move. If there is anything I can do to help, do let me know, but, as I've just said, I think your next move will lie outside my area of knowledge.

Take care & Good luck!


.

[terry brown]

Thank you for all of the time you have taken to help me and others.
There is so much great info here.
Anyone doing a search will find a goldmine here!!
I am sure I will figure this all out over time.

[Mary Kay]

[QUOTE=Arky;668680]Hi Mary, you generally need the 'Hair Test Interpretation' book if you suspect mercury.....


Arky, I'm not really suspecting mercury. Well, actually I don't know...but what I am suspecting is cadmium. Will other things besides mercury be addressed in Cutler's book?

I can't say as I have any MAJOR health issues, but I do have rosacea and recurrent shingles --very minor though.

Thanks again,

Mary Kay

[Arky]

[QUOTE=Arky;668680]Hi Mary, you generally need the 'Hair Test Interpretation' book if you suspect mercury.....


Arky, I'm not really suspecting mercury. Well, actually I don't know...but what I am suspecting is cadmium. Will other things besides mercury be addressed in Cutler's book?

I can't say as I have any MAJOR health issues, but I do have rosacea and recurrent shingles --very minor though.

Thanks again,

Mary Kay


Mary, if you are suspecting cadmium, then this is not covered in Cutler's 'Amalgam Illness' but is covered in his 'Hair Test Interpretation: Finding Hidden Toxicities' book. That would definitely be a worthwhile book for you to obtain and, happily, will also serve to aid in the interpretation of hair analyses done by Doctor's Data (AKA 'DDI')

Is there anything in particular you need to know about cadmium in relation to any symptoms you may have? I have Cutler's books with me if you need me to dip into them for a snippet here and there. I'm happy to help you in any way I can.

[Mary Kay]

Thanks Arky!

The only reason I'm suspecting cadmium is because we live on an apple farm that is not organic, so there is spray, and we have well water. And about 10 - 15 yrs ago dh and I had our hair analyzed and it showed high cadmium for us both.

Recently my potassium in a blood test was a little low - but still barely in the normal range, and I know that high cadmium may make low potassium.

No other real symptoms though, unless like I mentioned mild rosacea and recurrent shingles, which I would not equate with heavy metals toxicity. Oh, I do have arthritis in my pinky finger! I'm 56.

TIA,

Mary Kay

[Arky]

...recurrent shingles, which I would not equate with heavy metals toxicity.


Immune suppression is one possible route via which recurrent infections (or continuous underlying infection) might occur, and of course heavy metals can suppress the immune system...



I'm at work at the moment and won't have access to Cutler's books until just over 24 hours from now, but I'll repost here then.

Just as an aside, I believe cadmium likes to mess with the kidneys - any kidney issues for you..?

[Avocadesse]

I had all my mercury fillings removed in 2001 -- but unfortunately did not realize the importance of going to a conscientious dentist. He took no real precautions and all of them were taken out in one day.

I suffered what felt like a strange kind of dementia for about a month after that mercury removal. It was almost psychedelic and very intense.

Best to detox before, during and after mercury removal and go to a mercury-conscious dentist...!

[Davylp25]

Okay soooo has anyone had any POSITIVE EXPERIENCES, after removing the Mercury... Not what you should do etc... But actually positive experiences after removal etc etc??? That was kinda the whole point of my original post...

[Arky]

I suffered what felt like a strange kind of dementia for about a month after that mercury removal. It was almost psychedelic and very intense.

This strongly suggests that some of the mercury from your amalgams did migrate across the blood-brain-barrier, into the brain. This is typical of mercury and although amalgams were not my source of exposure, I have experienced migration of mercury into the brain, myself, and some of the weird neurological symptoms that accompany the presence of mercury.

For more on this, Avocadesse, please consider the contents of the following post, within this very thread:

http://rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?p=668484#post668484

Mercury demethylates in the brain and will almost certainly not travel back across the blood-brain-barrier and out of the body. Not even in an entire lifetime. Not, that is, unless one deliberately employs chelation substances to retrieve it and facilitate excretion. This exact topic is explained my Andy Cutler much better than I could describe it here - hear him for yourself in the following podcast:

www.healthcentersofthefuture.com/DrCutler/ (http://www.healthcentersofthefuture.com/DrCutler/)




Best to detox before, during and after mercury removal and go to a mercury-conscious dentist...!


If by 'detox', you are referring to chelation, then it would absolutely not be a good idea to do this prior to mercury removal.

If by 'detox', you are referring to general colon and liver cleansing, then that would be reasonable to do prior to amalgam removal, albeit with caveats regarding certain substances which might further stress an already mercury-intoxicated liver (intoxicated by virtue of years of gradual mercury exposure from the amalgams whilst in situ).

[Arky]

Okay soooo has anyone had any POSITIVE EXPERIENCES, after removing the Mercury... Not what you should do etc... But actually positive experiences after removal etc etc??? That was kinda the whole point of my original post...


Sorry, Davylp25, I didn't willfully take the thread on a tangent; sometimes threads just evolve a natural path of their own, as they progress.


To directly answer your question, I refer you again to this, from my first reply:


...if you read blogs such as:

MercuryStories.com (I particularly recommend the book, Getting The Mercury Out)

and

whatidontknow.net/blog/for-billy/


You'll be reading (in great detail) real biographical details of the experience before, during and after chelation...



Having read these resources myself, and conversed with others on various mercury-specific discussion boards, I can tell you that these are as good as you'll find, in direct relevance to your specific question.

Aine's book, in particular, is wonderfully frank and detailed and absolutely ideal for anyone contemplating chelation as a path out of the hell that is mercury-intoxication. That's why I bought it myself (although I was already a couple of weeks into chelation by the time it was published). It will answer many of your current questions.


Your question is highly relevant for anyone contemplating undergoing chelation, but at the same time, it does imply its natural counterpoint:

Has anyone had any POSITIVE EXPERIENCES, without removing the Mercury?

Anyone who has been significantly intoxicated by mercury is unlikely to answer 'yes' to the above question, so perhaps it is constructive to additionally focus upon ways in which mercury may be removed with the least negative side-effects, and that is already amply discussed in this thread, and the sub-links contained within.

Given that you are now asking if anyone has had any positive experiences after removing the Mercury, is it reasonable for me to ask you, following our exchange several weeks ago (http://rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=65152), if you have now established mercury (or other heavy metals) are playing a part in your own health issues?

All the best.


.

[Davylp25]

Thanks Arky... yeah I read those and will read more. I just was curious if any raw foodies have done this, maybe being more body aware... if they noticed anything...

[Arky]

Fair enough.

As it happens, my declining health (due to, but prior to my diagnosing, heavy metals) was what led me to explore many healing modalities, one of which was raw foods. I am confident that I am not alone in being drawn to examine my diet, and explore raw foods as one extension of that, in my quest to reverse my bewildering health decline.

On that level, I sense that there are a great many people on this board, and on other similar boards, who have undiagnosed heavy metal issues and are still as bewildered and perplexed about their various health symptoms as I was, for so long, and you can observe a small cross-section of this in the various discussions I've engaged in with members of this board on the topic of heavy metals.

As I mentioned, I'm only a few weeks into my chelation, but I've already observed a decrease in the severity of my reactions to foods to which I became sensitive following mercury-intoxication but was never sensitive to before that unfortunate exposure. It's incredible to observe such obvious results after such a short space of time, given that I'll probably need to chelate for approx 2-4 years to get my whole body (including the brain and liver) reasonably close to where I was prior to exposure.

I wish you well in your search.


.

[terry brown]

Davylp--So glad you started this post. Such valuable information has been provided, not only for me but for anyone doing a search here on this topic.

I have spoken to many people who have had their mercury fillings removed. No one has reported doing better because of doing so. They all were very happy to have them out though.

Should you decide to remove yours, you now have great information, knowing that this MUST be done very carefully.

Thanks for starting this topic and thanks to Arky for so much valuable information and for his willingness to help others.

[Mary Kay]

Terry Brown,

I couldn't agree more!

Davylp - Well, sorry your thread got hijacked! LOL, but if it means anything, I didn't get any worse after having mine removed. I feel the same. LOL

Arky,

No, I do not have any kidney issues. Thanks for asking. After a bit of research, I'm convinced that although recurrent shingles may be related to a suppressed immune system (I did have my appendix out at age five --imagine my poor diet to have had this at such a young age! , but I digress).....But I also equate it with high arginine intake or caffeine, or stress-like conditions. If I eat a bunch of carob, or chocolate, or peanut butter, or even hemp, or a lot of beans = all high in arginine, I have a flare up of my shingles. Now in the old days, a flare up may have gotten my whole hip to be swollen along with a swollen lymph node. Nowadays, all I get is an itchy blister above my butt on my back. But If I were to binge on any of these foods AND I take digestive enzymes AND I take lysine, which counteracts the arginine, then I generally do not get them. They only last a couple days.

How sweet of you to try to figure this out for me....and for helping others as well.

Thanks again,

Mary Kay

[Revvell]

Did you not read my post? To me, positive is, none of the stuff all these others seem to be chatting about. *shrugs*


Okay soooo has anyone had any POSITIVE EXPERIENCES, after removing the Mercury... Not what you should do etc... But actually positive experiences after removal etc etc??? That was kinda the whole point of my original post...

[speltrong]

i had all of the mercury removed several years ago.. not for wholistic purposes, but for cosmetic reasons. It was a definite non-event in my life.. had no effect on my health whatsoever.. just the positive effect of looking better. :-)

[13WaysToFeed]

Anyone know anything about using clay baths to remove heavy metals? Such as magnetic clay baths or Bentonite clay baths.

[Davylp25]

13waystofeed... I have heard about it but never tried it. I take the clay internally, yum... smile.

So arky or anyone when you replaced it the filling did you use a composite? Bpa free? Biocompatible? Or anyone, what did you replace it with?

[Arky]

So arky or anyone when you replaced it the filling did you use a composite? Bpa free? Biocompatible? Or anyone, what did you replace it with?


Personally, my mercury exposure is from vaccines, not amalgams.

[Mary Kay]

I had a composite material--BPA free. However, I spent $250 prior to getting the composite, to have a blood test, to see if I was sensitive to anything in the composite.

HTH,

Mary Kay