Kraut Crocks?

[speltrong]

Okay, so I am totally addicted to sauerkraut and kim chee, and I really want to make my own. I found a kraut crock on amazon called the Karsch Crock. It apparently makes fantastic kraut (or kim chee or pickles) in about 6 weeks with no effort on your part.. don't even have to worry about scraping off moldy stuff or anything. Do any of you own this? Is it worth the money? The price tag is nearly giving me heart failure, but I'm currently paying about $10 per pint of kraut, so I think it'd be worth it if it works. Just wondering if any of you other rawbies have tried it?

[willtryit]

hello fellow kraut lover.

you may be upset with me.. forgive me if i do not answer your question directly...If you only wanted a response to the question "has anyone tried this kraut crock", you need read no further..at least this post.. I have not tried that one yet.

BUT if you are interested in other methods of making kraut, i have tried something called a "perfect Pickler".. and i LOVE the product..and have a few of them.. And they do not cost a fortune, but produce substantial amounts of good fermented pickles of all kinds.

For one of those BIG crocks, i figured i would be shredding and chopping until my fingers were raw..They need a LOT of produce to fill them.
The perfect pickler, on the other hand...well, i do not have mine in front of me, but i believe they hold 6 cups each..once again, i could be wrong on that.

There is a new video i just found on You tube under perfect pickler.
This is a new model compared to the ones i use.. I like using glass jars and am not sure if the ones in the video are glass.
My perfect picklers are glass.with plastic lids and the gizmo you will see in the you tube to release the gases.

I think perfect pickler has a website also.
sorry i do not have the URL.

I find that with these particular kraut/pickle makers,, i can make different kinds of pickles and kraut.I have made Kale Kraut and zucchini and carrot and Kale Kraut. with ginger.
endless possibilities.kim chee of all varieties can be made also

**and i have never had to scrape off any slime****from the tops
once again, sorry if i did not answer your question exactly
i hope this helped you or some reader.

ok

[speltrong]

Thanks Willtryit! Not upset at all about your response, this is exactly the kind of information I am looking for. In fact, one thing that concerns me about the price of the Karsch crock is that I'm sure I'd want to have different batches going, which would mean owning more than one, which would mean an outlay of hundreds of dollars. So I'm totally going to go look up info on and read reviews about the item you suggested. Thank you! Also, very glad to meet another kraut lover.. we're probably the coolest people on the planet, don't ya think? :-) :-)

[DebB]

I'm another kraut maker! In fact, I just posted (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=64940)about it a few posts down. While my setup is not the "Perfect Pickler" - it's very similar. You can see it here (http://store.therawdiet.com/pisaandkimch.html). I've made several batches of veggie kraut with it and haven't lost a batch yet because of its airlock system.

I also have Sandor Katz's book and DVD on fermentation. He's one of the most knowledgeable about fermenting and kraut making that I've come across. He doesn't recommend the Harsch crocks because of their weight and unwieldiness. They sure are pretty though, aren't they? (But truly not necessary - hard for me to say, cuz I'm all about the kitchen gadgets and doo-dads!)

I have the 1 gallon kraut maker. We're enjoying the last batch I made which was ready to eat after just 5 days! I've let it ferment longer in the past, but wow - it gets a bit too sour for my liking. *Ü*

[T-Bird]

Deb - I wonder about that "starter culture" they recommend.

I prefer the natural or - according to sandor katz WILD - fermentation. its in the air all around us - waiting to take hold.......

Does their method prohibit the natural fermentation?

[DebB]

Deb - I wonder about that "starter culture" they recommend.

I prefer the natural or - according to sandor katz WILD - fermentation. its in the air all around us - waiting to take hold.......

Does their method prohibit the natural fermentation?

Hi T-Bird ~ I don't know about the starter culture they recommend. I use just salt.

When I first started fermenting, just to "be sure", I used to add some probiotics - but then I learned they weren't needed at all. Everything that the veggies need to ferment is in the air and already on them.

The air lock system is (probably?) no different from fermenting in a crock because no matter what vessel you use, you make sure the veggies are submerged beneath the level of brine so no air can get to them. What's nice about the airlock system though is no mold. Because in a crock there are bits that will float up and that's what the mold grows on (at least that's my understanding).

But - good ol' salt is all I use. *Ü*

[speltrong]

Thanks Deb! I think you guys may have talked me into trying it your way first. The crocks are beautiful, but if I can get four of the jar systems for the price of one crock, it's sort of a no-brainer. Also, getting kraut in 5 days as opposed to 6 weeks is a pretty big difference. Thanks for showing me these systems.. I had no idea they even existed!

[DebB]

Thanks Deb! I think you guys may have talked me into trying it your way first. The crocks are beautiful, but if I can get four of the jar systems for the price of one crock, it's sort of a no-brainer. Also, getting kraut in 5 days as opposed to 6 weeks is a pretty big difference. Thanks for showing me these systems.. I had no idea they even existed!

I just now went and looked at the Perfect Pickler. It's nice that you can buy just the lid assembly (with no glass jar) and that it fits on standard Mason jars. The one I have does not fit on standard mason jars - it fits on the gallon jar that comes with it. So this last time when I took my jar out of the dishwasher, I noticed a crack along the base...

I sent an email off to the owner asking if I can buy just another jar as I don't need the lid assembly and will hopefully hear back from him this week.

But with the perfect pickler setup, even if your jar breaks, you can buy another locally. You can buy a case of 6 Ball half-gallon jars at any Ace Hardware (if they don't have them in stock, they'll order them for you) for around $12 last time I checked.

On the other hand - I do like using a one gallon jar and making that much at a time, so I'd probably get 2 perfect pickler set ups for our needs so I could do two half-gallons at a time. (There are gallon Ball jars, but they're pretty pricey and harder to find).

I've heard others that have the Harsch crocks say that when they're packed full of kraut, they're really heavy and difficult at times for one person to pick up.

If you have a wine/beer making store, you could probably buy all you need to make your own setup (airlock system) because that's what they're used for. My husband used to make wine and had a bunch of them. *Ü*

[T-Bird]

Thanks Deb!

I think I'll have to make some today....running out.

[speltrong]

Thanks to everyone for all your input.. I finally decided to order the pickler that Deb B told me about. I ordered two and they just arrived today. So tomorrow I'm going to start a batch of kraut AND a batch of pickles going. If anyone has any last minute advice, I'm open to hearing it. Planning to use recipes from Wild Fermentation. So excited.. don't know how I'll wait all that time for everything to ferment. :-)

[DebB]

Thanks to everyone for all your input.. I finally decided to order the pickler that Deb B told me about. I ordered two and they just arrived today. So tomorrow I'm going to start a batch of kraut AND a batch of pickles going. If anyone has any last minute advice, I'm open to hearing it. Planning to use recipes from Wild Fermentation. So excited.. don't know how I'll wait all that time for everything to ferment. :-)

Hi speltrong! :woohoo: They arrived today! Really - it's very straight forward. I just finished fermenting a gallon a few days ago. One thing I learned with this last batch -- I have an old solid wooden potato masher with a long wooden handle that's just perfect for packing it down into the jar. Well, I was using a motion like churning butter - up, down, up, down. I actually think I may have been forcing more air into the kraut than getting air out!

The next batch (that I made without the pickler because it was full) - instead of the pumping motion, I simply applied steady pressure on it and wow - did I see all the air bubbles zipping up towards the top surface.

I hope that makes sense? You put in some of your cabbage and then tamp down, then more cabbage - more tamping down, all the way to the top so it's tightly packed and you get as much air out of it as you can.

So, that's my last minute advice...

When your jar is full, just make sure (like the instructions state) that when you screw the lid on with the grommet hole in, that liquid/brine does come up and out of that hole - then you twist in the air lock. Be sure and set your jar in a pie dish or bowl as it will overflow during the process.

I'm excited for you! Keep us posted, okay? (Are we fermenting nerds??) *Ü*

[speltrong]

Deb, thank you so much for your input! The tamping advice was really good, and I was able to use my potato masher, but made sure to tamp and not go up-down-up-down. I was totally shocked at how much cabbage fit in the jar.. five whole heads of it! Now I need to get my pickles going, but first I thought I would post a pic of my kraut jar.. does it look like I did it correctly?
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[MysticTree]

no idea if it's correct but it looks fantastic.

How long can this be kept on the shelf?

[DebB]

Deb, thank you so much for your input! The tamping advice was really good, and I was able to use my potato masher, but made sure to tamp and not go up-down-up-down. I was totally shocked at how much cabbage fit in the jar.. five whole heads of it! Now I need to get my pickles going, but first I thought I would post a pic of my kraut jar.. does it look like I did it correctly?
7062

It's a thing of BEAUTY!

I cannot tell, but is there water to the water line in the airlock? And did water come out of the grommet hole when you screwed on the outer lid? (I know - broken record - but we gots to make sure :). If so - then you are good to go!

I ferment mine in the basement where it's cooler and dark for most of the time. Be sure and take a picture of your pickles okay? I've never tried them and I want to!! *Ü*

[DebB]

Oh - back to add.. I should have thought of this (slaps forehead). I typically buy about 11 pounds of cabbage to fill the jar. I read that on Sunny Raw Kitchen's site and she uses a gallon jar. That number works well. I always save outer leaves incase I'm short and it doesn't fill all the way to the top. Then I start folding up and packing in the outer leaves and that fills the space. *Ü*

[speltrong]

Thank you! It's good to know the weight of the cabbage... I was trying to eyeball it at the supermarket and couldn't really comprehend how much would fit in there! So I just did the pickles... the recipe I used (from Wild Fermentation) kind of indicated that you should leave the cucumbers whole, but they were so huge that I cut them into spears. I hope that doesn't screw up the fermentation process. Other than those, there is a whole bunch of garlic, dill, a few grape leaves (which apparently keeps it crunchy), and a few peppercorns. I'll try to post pics daily of the experiments if I can. This one isn't the best pic, but here are the pickles:
7063

[speltrong]

Oh, and Deb, yes, when I screwed on the cap, the water/brine definitely came out of the little hole.. not a ton of it, but some. And I filled the airlock thing to the fill line, but I don't really understand how that part of it is supposed to work, so that's why I'm wondering if I did it right. :-)

[speltrong]

And Mystic, the instructions say that it "should last for months in the refrigerator". If it's tasty though, I don't think it will be around long enough to find out. :-)

[DebB]

The pickles look amazing! I'm anxious to hear how they turn out for you! *Ü*

[speltrong]

well, I just had a little taste of both the kraut and the pickles. The pickles are tasting fantastic but are still too cucumbery, so I'm going to give them more time to ferment.. but oh wow, they're gonna be great, i think! The kraut had the most unexpected flavor.. it is hot, almost like I put in a bunch of hot mustard seeds (which of course I didn't). It's good though, so I'm also going to keep fermenting that for a bit longer. Have you had unexpected flavors with your kraut?

[DebB]

well, I just had a little taste of both the kraut and the pickles. The pickles are tasting fantastic but are still too cucumbery, so I'm going to give them more time to ferment.. but oh wow, they're gonna be great, i think! The kraut had the most unexpected flavor.. it is hot, almost like I put in a bunch of hot mustard seeds (which of course I didn't). It's good though, so I'm also going to keep fermenting that for a bit longer. Have you had unexpected flavors with your kraut?

We just made a gallon of all green cabbage kraut a couple weeks ago for a friend of mine. When she tasted it, she said it tasted hot to her. I didn't taste the heat, but she did.

A batch of my veggie kraut which included daikon radish tasted hot to me and I thought it was the radish - but now it makes me wonder if it's just the natural nature of cabbage and how no 2 heads of cabbage will be the same?

I'm excited to hear about your pickles! I buy Bubbie's brand and it'll be so nice to try fermenting my own. *Ü*

[Jen Rose]

I'm glad I saw this thread, I am just about to make a big batch of Brenda Cobb's version of vege-krout. (My first time making krout) Hers has Juniper berries in it and Wakame. All I have is a big glass jar, I hope that works. I'm nervous about doing it b/c it's alot of produce and I'd hate for it to go bad or something....She says to just put a plate over it and weigh it down with a rock - she also says that mold will grow on the top but to just skim it off and use the stuff underneath...does that sound OK?

[speltrong]

Jen, yep, that sounds right! I'm currently reading Wild Fermentation and that is basically what that author says. I get a little squeamish with mold (even if it's not harmful), so I knew I had to find a contraption that avoided the mold issue. Let us know how yours goes!

[speltrong]

And Deb, yeah, that's super interesting. I wonder if it could be the cabbage? For the salt in mine, I used the pink himalayan salt, so I was also wondering if it could be something in that particular salt?

[DebB]

And Deb, yeah, that's super interesting. I wonder if it could be the cabbage? For the salt in mine, I used the pink himalayan salt, so I was also wondering if it could be something in that particular salt?

I used pink Himalayan salt too - huh!


I'm glad I saw this thread, I am just about to make a big batch of Brenda Cobb's version of vege-krout. (My first time making krout) Hers has Juniper berries in it and Wakame. All I have is a big glass jar, I hope that works. I'm nervous about doing it b/c it's alot of produce and I'd hate for it to go bad or something....She says to just put a plate over it and weigh it down with a rock - she also says that mold will grow on the top but to just skim it off and use the stuff underneath...does that sound OK?

Hi Jen Rose - I just fermented 2 half-gallon mason jars of green & red cabbage without using my pickling device (it was busy with another batch). I packed them to about 2" of the top. Then I took reserved outside cabbage leaves and folded them up and forced them down into the jar. The leaves are what held the chopped cabbage down under the level of the brine. That's important. Then when I screwed on the lid, the lid held the cabbage leaves in place. I hope I'm making this clear? I only finger tightened the lid, it was not tightly sealed. Then I placed the jar in a ceramic pie plate because it will ferment up and overflow and the pie plate catches that.

[streetsurfer]

.......I don't really understand how that part of it is supposed to work, so that's why I'm wondering if I did it right. :-)

Are you familiar with how the p-trap works on your kitchen sink and other household drains? It is an air lock to keep sewer gas from entering your kitchen atmosphere.

The air lock on the jars is somewhat similar in that it is to let out fermentation gases without letting in airborn contaminants. The pressure builds in the jar from fermentation and this is a good way to vent it while keeping the contents clean.

[DebB]

I think you guys may have talked me into trying it your way first. The crocks are beautiful, but if I can get four of the jar systems for the price of one crock, it's sort of a no-brainer. Also, getting kraut in 5 days as opposed to 6 weeks is a pretty big difference. Thanks for showing me these systems.. I had no idea they even existed!

I'm unsure if you meant you plan on ordering 4 of the pickling jars at once - or if the price is equivelant... Just wondering, cuz that's a lot of jars! *Ü*

[MysticTree]

debB ... take a look at the reply more closely and see if you don't think it is just a combination of things already said - pretty much verbatim and then wonder at the link in the sig ...