Hunger, eating too little/too much?

[BeingK8]

So, I've been into RFL for about 9 years, but that means "come and go" with raw, and ups and downs in percentages, etc.

I'm interested in opening a discussion about hunger and "adequate amounts" of food.

The ideas of how much to eat have become increasingly interesting to me. I'm new to RFT, even if not to RFL, and there may well be a thread on this toic or at least a related thread, and by all means, if there is and you know of it, do link me, please and thank you!

Anyway, one of the things I have learned about my body is that true hunger is MUCH different than the sensations I mistook for hunger for most of my life, such as detox, craving, needing another "fix," blood sugar crashes, etc., caused by the wrong foods and chemicals, (big example being caffeine - coffee is really what I'm talking here - when I have caffeine, I have a blood sugar crash that causes very uncomfortable sensations that I would have attributed to hunger years ago, before I became aware of how to listen to my body and before I became enlightened to new ways of viewing it).

I have read many interesting things on what true hunger is, what it is 'supposed' to feel like (even though that's such a subjective thing and it IS hard to compare in one person to another), and what affects it.

I have read/studied many things on longevity also, and one thing that seems to come up often is that undereating seems to be advantageous in the interest of longevity, but of course that also means a certain degree of undereating because there certainly is a balance between undereating and starvation. This is one of the things about which I am curious - what, in your opinion, experience or research constitutes "undereating vs. starvation."

There are people who defy what I think many of us raised in the west came to associate with the standards, those being, "three days with no water and 40 days with no food and you'll die."
Those of us into the alternative path all know that there are people who fast longer than 40 days.

And then, there are the mystical, enigmatic, esoteric aspects of health and longevity that we can't quantify or reduce to numbers and degrees - the more spiritual aspects.

So your thoughts, experiences, things you've read, things you've heard are those about which I'm curious. I'm interested in opening a discussion because I feel it will reveal some fascinating new things to consider on this journey.

Share whatever you will!

[modernmonkey]

I think it is important to not wait for the disorientation and shakes before eating something. It is knowing that moment well, which will sustain under eating but prevent starvation.

[EZ rider]

In about the last year my concept of "adequate amounts" of food has completely changed. I have found that when I eat PLENTY of the easy digesting simple carbs the more energy I have. When I eat foods that require more digestive effort for my body to digest like fats it slows me down and I don't experience a feeling of high energy. Also on days when I don't eat enough I experience low energy. On the days that I stay with the simple carbs and exclude the heavy foods I can eat as much as I want (the more the better) and I have very high energy days. So I have come to the conclusion that for me feeling good with plenty of energy and optimal performance isn't about CR but rather its all about getting plenty of the high energy foods. Stated as a formula its:
lots of quick digesting foods in = lots of energy out.

[sport]

Regarding the fact that reducing your food intake increases life span I did read a report about 2 years ago that reducing your intake of the amino acid methionine has the same effect.
This would indicate to me that you just have to reduce your protein intake.

[Jeannie]

I was about to start a new thread on eating too little but I think what I want to ask, ties in well with this thread..

I lost a few pounds in my first month raw, and then.. nothing, in fact I picked up the weight plus some.. and I couldn't understand it! I don't count calories and hate the effort of weighing food and writing everything down, but decided to download the cronometer. Turns out I am eating 700 to 1000 calories a day! I had no intention of starving myself, don't have an eating disorder and if I am hungry, I eat, so was shocked to see how few calories I was consuming!

There are lots of websites which advise how many calories are needed on a daily basis, but some say 1200, others say 1600, so..:confused

Wondering if my body is in 'survival mode' and storing every bit of energy possible! So from today I started an experiement, will use the cronometer for a week or so, just to monitor the calories so that I can increase the calories to about 1200 or so and see if it makes a difference.

I wonder if my previous SAD diet has resulted in losing the ability to listen to my body?

[sport]

There are lots of websites which advise how many calories are needed on a daily basis, but some say 1200, others say 1600, so..:confused


I am only a very little person (5.2 and 110 lbs) but my target is 2000 calories per day

[January Noir]

I am only a very little person (5.2 and 110 lbs) but my target is 2000 calories per day

You are tiny! I want to be like you!

[nadien alexandra]

hi,

I 100% agree with EZRider.

I do not believe in Calorie Restriction. what is the point of this assumed longevity if it comes at the price of low energy, blood sugar crashes, no muscle, and with such, an inability to REALLY LIVE every single day of that long life.

It makes more sense that one will experience both longevity and HIGH energy if they lower their protein and fat intake, and up their carb intake.

I'm 5'6 115lbs, and I eat 2500 carb cals a day as a minimum.

I experience tons of energy, no weight gain (I am at my optimal weight and I've got more defined muscle than i've ever had)

How? I eat Fruit all day (bananas and dates as staples, but i never leave out juicy fruit) until dinner, then I eat a gigantic salad and/or a green smoothie (sometimes im not so into chewing my evening away) and with that, maybe i'll have a quarter to half an Avo, and/or a few nuts or seeds.
Oh, and I do not eat refined oils, or sugars (no spoonfuls of coconut of flax oil)

[RAWatFIRSTsight]

I am curious how does a raw foodist get enough calories? Salads are very nutritious, but have hardly any calories. The only way I can think is to primarily eat fruits and nuts. But that would be way too much sugar and fat, right? Someone enlighten me, please.

[nadien alexandra]

you cannot get too much fruit sugar, if you eat to meet your daily energy needs. what i mean is, to reach your caloric needs, you MUST consume CARBS, in the form of fruit sugar/glucose.
Your body RUNS on glucose, it NEEDS fruit sugar. EAT as much as you are hungry for.
Eating a pound of greens a day on top of getting your caloric needs from fruit, will give you all the energy you need to not just survive, but thrive.

Don't be afraid of fruit. It's the key to energy. glucose is what your body craves 2nd to water.

nuts should not be consumed in large quantities, to reach your caloric needs. they should be consumed in small quantities, closer to the end of the day, for their particular nutrients and fat content (example: brazil nuts for their high quantities of selenium). but due to the fact that we do not NEED much fat in our diets (at most, 10% of our daily total intake of calories), we do not need many nuts and/or seeds. As well, consuming fat (especially in the form of nuts/seeds) will take MORE digestive energy than say fruits, it will take away from the energy you would like to use to pursue your daily goals.

READ: The China Study

Keys to life are:

WATER
Whole Plant-based foods (mostly whole fruits, then whole greens, and then some nuts and seeds)
EXERCISE
SUNSHINE

[Jeannie]

I am only a very little person (5.2 and 110 lbs) but my target is 2000 calories per day

Wow, Sport! You must be nibbling away all day to be able to get all those calories! ;)

[Psychalone]

Well first of all thank you for this thread, it’s a topic that’s close to mine heart J It’ll curious how this thread evolves.

When it comes to “adequate” amounts of food…it’s hard to tell what that is for everyone. For me personally I”ve used calorie restriction because I’m poor as hell :p I average maybe 1000-1500 cals a day IF that, lol, sometimes I can only get like 500 a day sometimes I just fast. I honestly can’t say I’m any healthier for it but it also doesn’t really bother me much either. I’m not out running marathons so it’s not so bad. Oddly enough though, there was a time when I was 17 and just started experimenting with fruitarienism where I was jogging 30miles a week and only eating like 3-4 pieces of fruit a day (usually mangos). I think there’s just a lot of fear regarding not having enough in society. Whether it be food, social stimulation, acceptance, money, whatever, I don’t think raw food has changed the mass materialism that we’ve been raised with. Matt Monarch made an interesting comment which is that ALL food is an obstruction and the goal is to make a LONG slow transition. He mentioned how he had to reduce his intake of food after 5-6 years on a raw food diet. Granted it was avocados that he mentioned so perhaps he just had to decrease his fat intake, idk, maybe one should ask him. Here’s the vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcFeTjctqWQ

The “hunger” issue is an interesting one. At 17 when I was fruitarian I began to notice the diff between being “full” and being “satisfied”. When I was raw vegan I would eat til I was full and with all the vegetables I was eating that was pretty eat. But with fruit I was only eating maybe 3 mangos a day but I was satisfied. Even beyond that I got to a point with my fasting experimentation that I noticed once food was out of my system, I didn’t want it. When I fast I don’t want to eat, EVER, EVER EVER again. Unfortunately…detox (BLAH), then food comes to it’s main function…sedation. When I fast I don’t want food for nutrition or heath or energy, none of that, I crave food for a few reasons and they are as follows: social occasions (fitting in), feeling “normal”, slowing the detox effect/sedation, lowering spiritual awareness/sensitivity, etc. Therefore I have to wonder if there’s a such thing as hunger at all. It’s easy to say “ok if I crave anything other than raw vegan then it’s just addiction and it’s not good but if I crave raw vegan then it has to be for nutrition”, but idk anymore, maybe ALL food is just addictive and maybe we don’t need it accept as transitional substance to get off it, kinda like cooked food is smoking, raw food is nicotine patches…ya know? I’ve been wondering about that and…well…I’m in the more “esoteric”, “mystical” part of things so…lemme share what I’ve found.

Undereating vs starvation. Again I dunno if there’s even such a thing as REAL starvation, as in the body not getting enough nutrition or whatever. I mean, yes, people have died from not eating but look at the circumstances. They stopped cold turkey, likely weren’t experienced with detox or fasting, probably didn’t transition to it. People have also died from changing to extreme climates that they weren’t used to, or from drug withdrawl (in extreme cases), so maybe being food-free is possible if one were to slowly get used to it. Starvation is more of a mindset in my eyes. If you are so scared of death, so scared of starving and you get all anxious and fear-ridden then the nervousness alone will cause one to lose weight and cause their health to deteriorate. IN fact extreme cases of fear can actually kill someone
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/extreme-fear/201004/yes-fear-can-kill-you
Which is why it’s recommended that people who are scared of starvation so not fast, because the fear would likely cause negative effects on health which would probably be blamed on the fasting.

So in exploratioin of such things… In Daoist alchemy there is something known as the “elixir of immortality”. Now since this is INTERNAL alchemy the elixir is an internal thing. It’s also known as a “sweet ambrosia that drips down that back of the throat”. It has been theorized that it’s a secretion from the pineal gland when it’s “activated” and balanced with the rest of the endocrine system. It is said that this can sustain one indefinitely allowing them to be both food AND water free. Also many qigong masters are known to do “cave meditions” where they will meditate in a cave without food, water or sleep, commonly for 49 days. I’ve been part of a daoist forum for awhile and there was a practitioner who dry fasted for somewhere around 8 days. He theorized that the pineal gland was able to somehow utilize the hydrogen and oxygen in the environment to create H2O, while there’s no way for me to validate this claim, it does stimulate some thought.

In the Essene tradition it is believed that we were once “light beings” who fell from paradise and were then forced to eat food to sustain themselves (that food being fruit). They go on to say that one of their goals is a slow dietary evolution back to the original fruitarian diet of man. They go on further to say that some who are ambitious enough can actually return to the state of non-eating. SO in this perspective the achievement of inedia is not only possible but also part of an “ascension process” spiritually. Their ultimate goal is to slowly transition to more compassionate and less dense diet and lifestyle. Here’s an interesting article by an Essene priest on this subject:
http://www.towardsfreedom.com/TheJesusDiet.html

Then there’s people like Arnold Erhet. If you haven’t heard of him or haven’t heard of his books GO HERE (http://instrumentals-beats.com/fastinginedia-ebooks/)and download them, they’re VERY interesting. He actually redefines human physiology in his chapter “New physiology” and disputes theories such as metabolism and other things. He poses the equation V=P-O. V=Vitality, P= Power, or the unknown force that drives a human vessel even while fasting and O=Obstruction, being any form of toxemia, mucus, and a whole bunch of other stuff that I can’t remember and don’t feel like looking up right now, lol, just download and read the book “Mucusless diet healing system” and while you’re at it pick up Rational Fasting and if you’re interested the other two excerpts. Real quick, one is an excerpt from a book on Tantra where a Tantric “master” is talking to his student and he mentions inedia as a high achievement. The other is a thought stimulating PDF file from an unknown source.

Then of course we have living testaments like Jericho Sunfire AKA Richard Blackman who durrianrider (Harley) has talked about. Harley thinks he’s faking it of course and we all know his message which is you need to eat massive amounts of calories from fruit in order to stay healthy. Of course this has it’s truth but there seems to be more to it. Jericho was once a fruitarian and has transitioned from fruits to liquids to breatharianism. He claims to have not eaten or drink anything for over a year, although he does say he swallows his spit, so…technicalities :p lol. Here’s some vids of him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QgFds9Ngd8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjU0c505Tx8

I think the real question here is what are our energy sources? When we fast, science has shown that the body becomes VERY efficient. We recycle minerals, vitamins, amino acids etc, so all we really need is a source of energy. When we eat we use carbs as a source of energy, however is there another way to get energy? IS there another method of powering this vessel? Arnold Erhet argues that it is BREATH that sustains us, not food. People like HRM and other sun gazers say that light can be absorbed by the pineal gland and used to power the brain and maybe even the whole body (but the brain uses up so much energy that sun gazing would at least theoretically allow one to eat much less). SO perhaps there are other sources of energy we can run off of. Then we have the idea of “chi”, “prana” or “lifeforce”. The Chinese culture believes that the reason we eat food is to extract “chi” or lifeforce from it. By this theory it makes sense that raw food would make one healthier. AT the same time though there’s a popular phrase of daoist alchemy that I think is worth observing. There are 3 “treasures” and they would be “Jing” (essence) Chi (lifeforce) and “Shen” (spirit/awareness). They say when the Jing is full you won’t crave sex. When the Chi is full you won’t desire food. When the Shen is full you won’t desire sleep. The process is using your chi to power you jing, then converting jing to chi and then chi to shen, then shen to emptiness. The point being though, the Chinese culture believed that since we run on lifeforce and food is only ONE source that it’s possible through internal alchemy to obtain lifeforce, whether it be meditation or whatever.

One of the raw food “gurus” Viktoras Kulvinskas, an Essene monk, also talk about things like breatharianism and how it’s possible. I believe his system is based around allowing people to reach that state. His focus is on rematerializing and alkalizing the body while using enzymes to save energy in digestion. This may allow fasting to be eaiser. If the body recycles minerals, but cooked food leeches minerals then perhaps we can become depleted and perhaps that’s why fasting is so hard for some people. Idk, this is just my personal possibilities that go through my head. Here’s a great 6 part lecture by him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS4WdX75s5c

THAT’S RIGHT I’M THE BLACK SHEEP THE REAL BLACK SHEEP, do do do do do do do do do doooooooo

...I"m out

[sport]

Wow, Sport! You must be nibbling away all day to be able to get all those calories! ;)

This is a typical day for me and comes to 2026 calories.

Watermelon, raw 2185 g 655.5
Mangos, raw 525 g 341.2
Bananas, raw 260 g 231.4
Lettuce, green leaf, raw 220 g 33.0
Seeds, flaxseed 5 g 26.7
Seeds, sunflower seed kernels, dried 2 g 11.7
Pears, raw 415 g 240.7
Bananas, raw 420 g 373.8
Blackberries, raw 140 g 60.2
Raspberries, raw 100 g 52.0

[sport]

Actually that is not a typical day as I notice that I had no celery and I rarely go without it so I must not have had a green juice that day.

[dime]

So in exploratioin of such things… In Daoist alchemy there is something known as the “elixir of immortality”. Now since this is INTERNAL alchemy the elixir is an internal thing. It’s also known as a “sweet ambrosia that drips down that back of the throat”. It has been theorized that it’s a secretion from the pineal gland when it’s “activated” and balanced with the rest of the endocrine system. It is said that this can sustain one indefinitely allowing them to be both food AND water free. Also many qigong masters are known to do “cave meditions” where they will meditate in a cave without food, water or sleep, commonly for 49 days. I’ve been part of a daoist forum for awhile and there was a practitioner who dry fasted for somewhere around 8 days. He theorized that the pineal gland was able to somehow utilize the hydrogen and oxygen in the environment to create H2O, while there’s no way for me to validate this claim, it does stimulate some thought.


It's not so uncommon for people to dry fast for that long, with proper preparation (cleansing, juice/water fasting, etc) it's possible to go on for 8-9 days. Check Dr. Filonov's page (http://www.filonov.net/) he has a center in Russia where such dry fasts are carried out. You can translate with google if you don't understand Russian.
I doubt that the pineal gland could do this H20 production :)

[mcster]

It's really simple...overeating is a resulting symptom of SAD.

Hunger and cravings = your body's way of telling you it needs nutrition. People who overeat are not eating nutrition dense foods. You can eat pizza until you're full but you'll soon be hungry again because there is no nutrition in that "food". This is how people get fat. It really is that simple.

Continuing with the keep it simple approach, I eat when I'm hungry and aside from giving thought to my dietary needs for the fitness training I do, I eat what my body craves. I don't calorie count, I don't measure how many grams of protein or fat I eat.

Following this regiment, combined with deep cleansing (three weeks on the Master Cleanse) has resulted in achieving my ideal weight, being 90% on my way to achieving the coveted "swimmers body", shedding about 5-7 years, getting much deeper sleep and having a high and constant level of energy throughout the day, every day. My fitness level and performance in sports has increased at a level that still boggles my mind.

Eat primarily from the produce section, consume a healthy amount of fat and protein and add some superfoods to your diet, especially if you train and magic happens. It doesn't have to be difficult. Someone mentioned the China study above...I don't think those fit, healthy and disease free people count calories or worry about how much carbs/protein/fat the are consuming. They probably just listen to their bodies and eat what they crave. Not a novel idea.

And a note on undereating...if you're purposely having to restrict how much you eat, it's most likely because you have developed an emotional/psychological issue with food or your body image. However, your body can thrive with limited amounts of calories and no food for prolonged periods of time. I do the Master Cleanse regularly and have gone with no food for up to three weeks. During that time I had more energy than when I used to eat SAD and almost as much as I do now with RAW.

[EZ rider]

In the Essene tradition it is believed that we were once “light beings” who fell from paradise and were then forced to eat food to sustain themselves
Maybe people step into their coffins early in life because they arn't satisfied with eating clean burning fuel (food) and instead eat a diet so high in its percentage of cooked damaged foods full of addictive taste sensations that they pollute their bodies to an extent that it breaks down prematurely ?

[Jeannie]

This is a typical day for me and comes to 2026 calories.

Watermelon, raw 2185 g 655.5
Mangos, raw 525 g 341.2
Bananas, raw 260 g 231.4
Lettuce, green leaf, raw 220 g 33.0
Seeds, flaxseed 5 g 26.7
Seeds, sunflower seed kernels, dried 2 g 11.7
Pears, raw 415 g 240.7
Bananas, raw 420 g 373.8
Blackberries, raw 140 g 60.2
Raspberries, raw 100 g 52.0

Thanks for the info, Sport, your menu looks so yummy!! About a half watermelon a day.. plenty of mangoes.. berries...... yes!!!!!! And if you were to eat, say half of that, do you find that you gain weight?

[BeingK8]

I think it is important to not wait for the disorientation and shakes before eating something. It is knowing that moment well, which will sustain under eating but prevent starvation.
Yea, but you know, I kind of wonder what degree or quality of shakes are truly a need for food.
In my body, this doesn't happen when I'm eating really "clean." And "clean" doesn't even have to be all raw for me. I don't get any shakes or nausea if I just eliminate all sugar and flour and caffeine. Well, I guess I should qualify that - I MAY get them if I went days between meals, even eating that way. I never tried because I haven't been a faster (as yet - I'm pretty sure it's in my future).
So, this had led me to draw the conclusion that the shakes and such are probably detox/withdraw and my body screaming for another drug fix, since I only really get them when eating VERY "drug-y" foods like refined carbs.

I don't know. I wonder if I'd get them, but a different quality or type, if I fasted.
Interesting to contemplate. And then of course, there is all the stuff that Psychalone brings up and that sort of thing has always made me even more curious about food, nourishment and sustaining life.

Regarding the fact that reducing your food intake increases life span I did read a report about 2 years ago that reducing your intake of the amino acid methionine has the same effect.
This would indicate to me that you just have to reduce your protein intake.
Do you have any idea if that amino acid is only in meat? I might have to google! That's interesting!

Psychalone, I have come across and pondered MANY of the things you bring up. I bet we'd have hours of fun contemplative conversation over some rejuvelac!

And oddly, regarding Matt Monarch, his writings were a big contributing factor to my curiosity about undereating. And I cannot explain well why this is, (it's an intuitive/feeling state sort of thing) but I have a slight distrust of him. I think it could be this feeling that he may be one of the raw trailblazers who feels to me like the sort of person who wouldn't necessarily be able to retreat if he had made a mistake. I think SOME people, SOME times, get so far entrenched and have so many people following their advice, that their egos preclude them from saying, "I don't know that I was right" or "I was wrong about this or that, everyone." And because they are unable to admit such a thing, they perpetuate the misguidance and keep on holding the same stance. I have this gut feeling that he COULD be one of those. I wish I knew WHY I feel this way. I mean, it's not fair to the dude. He has not been SHOWN to be wrong and still standing by his opinion. Well, in THIS time and space reality. Maybe in another one...LOL!

Mcster Totally totally totally agree (and see it as MUCH more significant than 'just a note'), that so much of overeating and problem eating (undereating to extremes, included) are based in pyschological and emotional factors that can be addressed, thus resulting in improvement in the behavioral manifestation.
Truthfully, while I agree with you that hunger/eating CAN be so simple as "when hungry, eat whole food," I sort of feel that it can ONLY be that simple when a person has awareness of the psychological and emotional things going on behind the scenes, the paradigm BEHIND the behaviors we exhibit. When those things are going on without awareness, they run the show and the individual really is at the mercy of those factors, IMHO.

[sport]

Thanks for the info, Sport, your menu looks so yummy!! About a half watermelon a day.. plenty of mangoes.. berries...... yes!!!!!! And if you were to eat, say half of that, do you find that you gain weight?
I do not know that as I never tried it. I would not dare to try it as I am too concerned about osteoporosis to risk it. Besides, I like to be well fed.

[Jeannie]

@Nadien: Some really valuable info there, thanks, I have read some great reviews of the China Study, and have ordered it so looking forward to reading it and learning more.

@Psychalone Your post has much to 'digest', enjoyed reading it! Had a look at the youtube vids, really interesting, I read a bit about breatharianism in the book Anastasia by Vladimir Megre. Have often wondered if it was possible to live without food, and upon doing a bit of investigation it seems that there are a fair few people who practice it. It does seem about 'out there' but the vids were worth looking at, lots of good info on cleansing, fruitarianism, juice fasting etc. too. Challenges the mind to consider some totally different perspectives.

Although the guy on the vid wasn't saying that this is for everyone, I can't help but think this.... if we as humans are to be breatharians, why do we have teeth? :D

[sport]

Do you have any idea if that amino acid is only in meat? I might have to google! That's interesting!


I found the link to that article.
http://www.oasisofhope.com/media/pdf/met_vegan.pdf

[dime]

Regarding the fact that reducing your food intake increases life span I did read a report about 2 years ago that reducing your intake of the amino acid methionine has the same effect.
This would indicate to me that you just have to reduce your protein intake.

Methionine is an essential amino acid, at least I wouldn't try to reduce it based on some rat studies and would stick to the recommendations. Since it's usually in low amounts in most foods compared to other amino acids, it's sometimes used as a measure of protein quality.

Fruits contain very low amounts of methionine, best sources seem to be brazil nuts, sesame seeds, and probably meat. So if you are a fruitarian even if you eat all different kinds fruits, you'll get somewhat less usable protein than the fruits actually contain, because they are mostly deficient in methionine. And fruits are already quite low in protein.

[dime]

Although the guy on the vid wasn't saying that this is for everyone, I can't help but think this.... if we as humans are to be breatharians, why do we have teeth? :D
Well, so far none of this breatharianism stuff has been proved, so guess what that means :)

[mcster]

Mcster Totally totally totally agree (and see it as MUCH more significant than 'just a note'), that so much of overeating and problem eating (undereating to extremes, included) are based in pyschological and emotional factors that can be addressed, thus resulting in improvement in the behavioral manifestation.
Truthfully, while I agree with you that hunger/eating CAN be so simple as "when hungry, eat whole food," I sort of feel that it can ONLY be that simple when a person has awareness of the psychological and emotional things going on behind the scenes, the paradigm BEHIND the behaviors we exhibit. When those things are going on without awareness, they run the show and the individual really is at the mercy of those factors, IMHO.

Completely agree. Wellness is the result of living well not just eating well. However, I do believe that eating well can create an environment to address other imbalances and likewise the other way around. As an example, I would find it hard to believe one can become fat and unhealthy by emotional overconsumption of veggies and fruit. As far as emotional and/or psychological imbalances are concerned, I would point out that we are 100% responsible for the situations we have created for ourselves and we are equally 100% able to change them. It all boils down to one's willingness to take responsibility and action.

[sport]

Methionine is an essential amino acid, at least I wouldn't try to reduce it based on some rat studies and would stick to the recommendations. Since it's usually in low amounts in most foods compared to other amino acids, it's sometimes used as a measure of protein quality.

Fruits contain very low amounts of methionine, best sources seem to be brazil nuts, sesame seeds, and probably meat. So if you are a fruitarian even if you eat all different kinds fruits, you'll get somewhat less usable protein than the fruits actually contain, because they are mostly deficient in methionine. And fruits are already quite low in protein.

I assumed when I read the report (a while ago now) that the reason that the calorie restricted diet worked was because they were automatically getting less methionine as part of getting less calories and that this was increasing life span.
I figured that I was getting less anyway so could go ahead and happily eat my fill and still get the CR benefits.

[nadien alexandra]

@MCster: Understanding what a healthy diet consists of, and listening to your body, does not require worrying about your levels of protein, fat, and carbs, nor does it require counting calories.

The China Study is an important read.

It's good to refill your Self with the Knowledge of what foods are composed of (in regards to vitamins, minerals, carb/fat/protein content) so you can have an appreciation for these foods, understand why they are crucial and also WHEN they are crucial (like what is each foods signifcant healing power?).
It is also important to know these things when you want to help/educate others who need to rebuild a connection with their body/intuition. For sharing/communicating purposes, numbers and nutritional facts help.

Once you know though, and once YOU have rebuilt that connection with self, you do not need to worry or count.

You are right though, when you said that "it is simple..."

Overeating is not a result of a SAD. I think that a SAD diet (and consequently, overeating, undereating, and other food fixations) is the result of a whole body misplacement. We've "lost touch" and the result is consuming too much of the wrong things in an attempt to satisfy the soul, and obviously no true satisfaction will occur.

I also agree that wellness is a whole way of living, and when you make the decision to be healthy in one way (for example diet) it ultimately influences the whole.


@pychalone:
I don't think any of these self acclaimed breatharians have been verified as being such, but i don't think they've all been dis-proven either. some have though.
i have heard much about these cave meditations, and I do feel that someone who has really searched in themselves and gone beyond themselves through the practice of meditation, has gone through a kind of evolution, and in doing so, they have changed where they source their "lifeforce" from. Subsequently, they do not seem to need to rely so much on sensual pleasures and the fuel one receives from food.

I do think that, the more we meditate, practice non-attachment, the closer we will be to the source and truth of things. Less and less we will be drawn to and find value in these human desires.

but Buddha chose the middle path. remember that.

He did so though, after trying everything though.

I have done a lot of fasting in the last few years. I think it is really important to fast, and for long periods of time. the body not only, can handle it, but grows much, and heals much, from it. But I do not think, at least I cannot think so for myself at this point in my human life, go forever without the energy from plants (fruits and greens) and water.
Plants have certain components in them to turn sunlight into energy/food. we do not. we use sunlight to make vit. d, but we would be missing a lot of other essential nutrients (to say the least) if we did not consume other things. we are more like mushrooms maybe? :)
Although, I have heard about this lizard or gecko or something, who apparently is reported to have had only one meal in its entire life, and after that, it relies on photosynthesis.
I do not think it's impossible, just not possible for most people. It takes a lot of purifying, and maybe someone who's lived a lot of lives and become really enlightened, is capable of such.


EDIT: this is cute... http://www.wimp.com/babyhummingbird

[Psychalone]

@alexandra- None of the breatharians have really been explored. Jasmuheen has been proven as a fraud, Wily Brookes...I'd like to say he has too, but can't be certain, I don't like his message though. The point is anyone can claim it but there's not enough research being done in this area and one can easily understand why. If this is a path that speaks to you, if someone feels drawn towards it then they should explore it, but for all else...eh. Hira Ratan Manek has been studied and supervised for fasts of hundreds of days i think the longest recorded was like 211 days or maybe 400sumthing. Regardless he barely lost any wieght and showed no sign of deterioration and yet...he still eats. I believe the ABILITY to be a breatharian and the CHOICE to be breatharian are 2 VERY different things. One may have the ability to do so but will they choose that path for themselves?
As for the buddha...eh, never really liked the guy, too obediant and submisssive for my liking. I'm sure he'd make a great political or religious tool though ;) . But meditation...well actually I should say CONCENTRATION is indeed a valuable tool in energetic development and evolution. Fasting too I think is a powerful catalyst for evolution. Qigong Master Chunyi Lin at springforestqigong.com emphasizes fasting in the later levels of his system.


@Jeanie- indeed and these are good questions to ask yourself. I wonder why we have pinkys or pinky toes, or why we have on our bodies or fingernails :p But I think the important thing to ask is what is possible. Just becausse we evolved with certain traits doesn't mean we have to use them. If we evolved with instincts to kill other humans would you follow them or would you discipline your mind and body and change yourself. Breatharianism is about evolution, not remaining the same. And I think one of the main reasons he says it's not for everyone is because simply most people are not willing or ready to take such a leap. Like he said it's like trying to break a lifelong addiction for NO REASON. You have to really want to evolve. Most people just want to be happy and thus the evolution isn't necessary, however if it's true that this world is in for a time of massive food shortages I could see how it could be a useful tool in survival ;) Or of course if you were looking to become a god, that would help in that respect too XD

@BeingK8- Haha, yeah I'd love to babble some "out" stuff over a cup of rejeuvlac. Idk bout Matt, I don't get a "bad" vibe from him, but I don't get a serious one either. He doesn't seem on the level that I look for in others, but he doesn't appear inherently deceptive either. I'm sure MANY people are afraid to admit their failures, shame is a hard thing to face for most people, it's so much easier to lie. But regardless of the vibe I got from him, his message fits with other research and testimonials I've come across so I thought i'd share it.

[Jeannie]

@ psychalone: The idea of breatharianism is sounding more and more attractive to me.. Think about this... no food bills, no food preparation, no dishes and no kitchen to clean!!! Never having to listen to one more complaint about dinner!!!! ;)

[BeingK8]

@BeingK8- Haha, yeah I'd love to babble some "out" stuff over a cup of rejeuvlac. Idk bout Matt, I don't get a "bad" vibe from him, but I don't get a serious one either. He doesn't seem on the level that I look for in others, but he doesn't appear inherently deceptive either. I'm sure MANY people are afraid to admit their failures, shame is a hard thing to face for most people, it's so much easier to lie. But regardless of the vibe I got from him, his message fits with other research and testimonials I've come across so I thought i'd share it.

Yea, I don't see him as deceptive, if it came across that way. Maybe I just have this feeling that he'd be one who seems like he'd be less inclined to own up to previous advice being wrong? I don't know. You are right - what he puts out there does jive with what other studies and experts in health and longevity have put forth.
Eh...it's all good.
Let's talk about things like MAP teams for healing and using light and color to change the body!!! Way more exciting! :woohoo: LOL!

[sport]

Yea, I don't see him as deceptive, LOL!

I do not know how you got that quote up under my name but it did not come from one of my posts.