Liver Cleanse

[Mothergoose]

How often and how far apart can the liver cleanses be. I am considering starting on my first liver cleanse. It says that it may not get all the stones out so you have to do it every 2 weeks? Also once they are all out do you have to keep repeating it soon after or a few monthes later? How do you know you should go back on it, etc.?

[kaleboy]

I just did it ! you can check out my stones under my profile. I was like OMG ! Personally I'd leave about a month between cleanses as it can be pretty full on.

[ray34iyf]

You're going to want to make sure your colon is working and you're having 3-4 bm a day before you consider a liver flush... got to be able to get those toxins out of your colon after the flush and epsom salts aren't the best bet because they put an excess stress on the kidneys... trust me.. been there done that... many times.

[Arky]

You're going to want to make sure your colon is working and you're having 3-4 bm a day before you consider a liver flush... got to be able to get those toxins out of your colon after the flush and epsom salts aren't the best bet because they put an excess stress on the kidneys... trust me.. been there done that... many times.

I agree about the Epsom salts re' the kidneys and I would go even further to say that, as I have found, and as Doc Sutter often remarks, if one is calcium deficient then chugging down Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) is a very bad idea, because calcium and magnesium exist in specific ration in the cells of the body. If you consume magnesium, then the body must obtain calcium from somewhere in order to maintain cell homeostasis. If you lack sufficient calcium reserves in the body, it must be drawn from other areas which are already desperately trying to cling on to whatever levels they have. Thus, Epsom salts are highly damaging to individuals with calcium deficiency.

Why would someone be that calcium deficient? Well, if one has gallstones or congestion of the liver and/or gallbladder, either upstream or downstream of the biliary system, then the net result will likely be impeded bile flow. If one has impeded bile flow on a longterm basis then one will be unable to efficiently emulsify fats. If one cannot efficiently emulsify fats then one cannot efficiently absorb fat-soluble vitamins either (A and D, for example). These vitamins are essential for proper calcium absorption.

Another route for calcium deficiency in those with gallstone issues is that the body, in addition to other valuable purposes, uses bile to stimulate peristalsis in the digestive system. People who suffer from frequent constipation may have reduced bile flow without realising it. Many people attempt to remedy constipation with various magnesium-based compounds...and thus, over time, potentially deplete their calcium reserves.

In both the above circumstances, then, there is a curious coincidence between gallstone issues and calcium deficiency, which a wise person would be...well...wise to bear in mind when considering using Epsom salts as part of a gallbladder flush.

Thus, it's a catch-22 - you need to clear the biliary debris but almost all the cleanses say to use Epsom salts. Solution? Use anti-lithic herbs for weeks or months prior to cleansing, make sure you drink good quality cloudy apple juice for 7-10 days prior to the cleanse (assuming you are not diabetic, of course), then do the lemon and oil on your flush night. Some also use orthophosphoric acid for 3 days prior to the flush, to help break down the stones, but I have my reservations about orthophosphoric acid as it is very harsh stuff and if one is calcium deficient then their body is already struggling to maintain appropriate pH balance in the cells as it is (calcium is one of the primary alkalinising minerals in the body).

Whatever you decide to do, please remember that it is potentially dangerous to just flush without using at least some of the preparatory methods mentioned above - you do not want to end up with choledocholithiasis.


There are plenty of other posts on the topic of liver/gallbladder cleansing, just one of which may be found here:

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=64011




P.S. when I speak of anti-lithic herbs, I am referring to chanca piedra, gold coin grass (AKA herba lysimachiae / Jin Qian Cao), hydrangea root etc. I particularly recommend Whole World Botanicals' 'Royal Break-stone' Chanca Piedra tincture and Herb Pharm's 'Stone Breaker' tincture.

[kaleboy]

I had a great result when I did it. I can see why they use the epsom salts as they really relax everything...it is a rough night doing it though but worth it I think.

[fastfreedom]

Here's some links on various ways and recipes to remove gallstones.

http://www.curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=974074

http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=180601&s=1#i1

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=44128&highlight=liver+flush

Malic acid capsules and fresh made apple juice prior to the flush will soften stones.


LOL. I just noticed I posted a bunch of links not relevant to the OP's question. But I'm gonna leave em cus I don't like the epsom salts either.

Relevant to the op's question. I've read somewhere of people doing liver flushes very close together cus they were quite sick. I'll see if I can find the article. It was someone in a hospital or health institue or something like that healing people that were very sick.

[Mothergoose]

Should I subsitute these herbs for the epsom salts? I personally do not like salt anyway, so I would prefer an alternative....

[fastfreedom]

Well I can't find the article I was thinking about. And maybe they were doing liver flushes by doing coffee enema's daily. This makes sense to me, cus doing a liver flush following the common epsom salt/oil/grapefruit procedure frequently would be very taxing on the body.

Here's another liver flush page I saved a while back. I just came across it again trying to find that article about frequent liver flushing. http://falconblanco.com/health/cleansing/liver1.html

And as far as the herbs go. It's something you want to take for a while before doing a liver flush. Like for a couple weeks. Those herbs will help soften and break up stones, but you need to give em time to work.

[kaleboy]

I used this one but only did 11 days of the apple juicing and the morning tablespoon of olive oil and 1/2 lemon juice mixed with hot water...

http://www.worldwidehealthcenter.net/articles-25.html

[ray34iyf]

What I would DEF look into if I were you...

-castor oil packs over liver and foot reflexology on the liver points, possibly coffee enemas

It's important to prep the liver days beforehand to make sure the liver flush is successful.. but equally important is to make sure you are eliminating 3-4 times per day... or else reabsorbed toxins from the flush sitting in your colon could make you feel very sick...

[monkapotapus]

I used this one but only did 11 days of the apple juicing and the morning tablespoon of olive oil and 1/2 lemon juice mixed with hot water...

http://www.worldwidehealthcenter.net/articles-25.html

WOW @ your stone pictures!!! :eek:
What a brilliant green color they are Kaleboy!!!!!
How do you feel "after" you've done it?

[modernmonkey]

Aren't a lot of these stones just the hardened olive oil? You can tell, if they float, are squeezable and melt from heat. Aren't gallstones painful to pass and sink?

[kaleboy]

I felt good after, I really couldn't believe it at the time ! More so though in knowing that my liver was cleaned big time from some major blockages ! going to do another one when I get the time. They take a bit of prep time though. By cleaning your liver you basically improve your digestion powers and hence are able to absorb more nutrients from your food.

Modern, that was what my initial thought was but I remember doing it and I could feel them sort of gravelling down from the liver area (I think they actually come from the liver rather than the gallbladder, perhaps both). Also if you look at the shapes in the close up you can see that they have the type of shapes that you would expect to find in the hepatic ducts of your liver. Especially the one that looks like a cork shaped plug and an elbow shape. The plug one was perfectly cylindrical with a cork shaped head and striated sides. Also they are completely green and apparently are basically cholesterol (not the hard calcified gallstones you can get). You wouldn't expect them to form so clean in color in the bowel and only in 8 hours.

The idea behnd the cleanse is that the amount of olive oil in your bowel causes the gallbladder to squeeze out all its bile and then the liver follows and it releases all its bile from the ducts. The apple juice softens any stones you have and the epsom salts relax all the tubing. So on release out it all flows and the pressure and softening releases all the blockages. Anyone who has lived on a sad diet before raw food should do it imo.

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?p=255204#post255204

[Raw Angel Mom]

I used this one but only did 11 days of the apple juicing and the morning tablespoon of olive oil and 1/2 lemon juice mixed with hot water...

http://www.worldwidehealthcenter.net/articles-25.html

Thank you for posting the link. I read it and i feel more comfortable to do that. I have always had so much fear to do the liver cleanse but with the 14 days of apple juice as recommended, i can do that. I developped allergies in 2007 and i am sure if i cleanse my liver, it is going to help out.

[Mothergoose]

I finished my first liver cleanse this week. It was a rough time for me. I did everything like the lemons and olive oil the first six days in the am and drank apple juice through out the day and ate my regular diet. Well on the sixth day, my stomach started to act up and I was feeling terrible. Lots of diarhhea and I even did the epson salts, which really turned it up a notch....and flushed more out. I also vomited a lot because my stomach could hold nothing down....

Weird thing is, I did a parasite cleanse and the kidney cleanse through the packaged preparations for a week too. I am still not fully recovered from a queasy stomach and I am still experiencing diahreaa.

I was hoping I would be rejuvenated with plenty of energy, but I am completely drained. The thought of having to repeat this in a couple of more weeks doesn't appeal to me....I may buy the store made cleanse because it may be less harsh on me.

There was a virus going around and I may have caught it just as I was doing the cleanse. The good thing is I now have a flatter belly.:woohoo: I have not weighed myself, but I am definately careful for what I eat.


A little soda and crackers settles my stomach though.

[kaleboy]

Did you do the epsom salts on the actual cleanse day and then the 1/2 cup of olive oil ? The salts really make things want to move and the side affects are as you say...

[Mothergoose]

Yes. I had a hard time drinking the epson salts though...very bitter, but they did do a wonderful job as a laxative. The best I have ever had.

[DOM]

I will do my liver cleanse at the end of the month,since I heard ,its better to do the cleanse in the decreasing moon period.

but for now I'm interested in the egg yolk liver flush.has anyone expirience with that method? (dont want to promote eating egg yolks)

then I have another question about lemons.I have some problems because I'm from germany.

Is there a difference between limes and sweet limes?
In germany we use more often lemons and rarely limes

another question:when you say Lime,you mean the green fruit and not the yellow lemon right? (its so confusing because I read on one page,that it is the same,and on another that its not)

[Mothergoose]

DOM, I have never heard of that method. It will be interesting the justification of involving eggs in such a cleanse.

Today was the first day I felt myself since my liver cleanse. I felt like a million bucks. However, I must remember not to put any junk in my body to mess up a good thing. I do like to eat candy and I need to drink water too.

[DOM]

its the 3rd link from fastfreedom on the first page of your thread.
there you can see the whole tutorial

[Mothergoose]

This egg yolk and lime cleanse, I understand from the forum you need to do everyday and use enemas. I am not clear on if the enemas should be right after drinking the solution, or the next day or what. WHat I am clear on is that you use the concoction 3 hours after a meal. Or first thing in the am. Then it may make you feel sleepy.

Also, does this need to be done every day all the time for for a length of time? It sounds like the lady who does this does this every day all the time. Also taking enemas everyday does not sound too appealing to me. It also makes the bowels too dependent on moving with help....

Does anyone else have an opinion or knowledge on this? I know I am supposed to do this flush again, but I want to avoid the same discomfort as last time.

[fastfreedom]

I've done the liver flush that uses the egg yolk. I have also read that entire thread. LOL Lots of reading. But it was a couple years ago. And yes you can keep your eggs on the counter. That's something I wondered about a couple years ago, and it's covered somewhere in that thread.

I didn't do the enema's everyday. I think I did em for the first two or three days maybe, but then I just stopped with em. And I can't recall exactly what length of time it's recommended to wait before taking the enema. Wish I could remember right now so you wouldn't need to read through that whole thread to find the answer.

When I was doing the yolk/lime/oil liver flush I felt pretty good. I actually felt like I gained energy after drinking it. Especially after the first time I doubled up the recipe. I don't recall it making me sleepy. But I think I do recall that some did get sleepy. I guess it's dependent on the individual.

Yes it's good to do it for a little while instead of just a day or two. I can't really recall how long I did it. And I think I did it on two different occasions. Perhaps for a few weeks each time. Sounds about right, if not another week or so.

Another type of liver flush you could look into is the juice fast combined with a daily coffee retention enema. The juice fast will help clear your colon, and the coffee enema will cause your gallbladder to squeeze out it's bile. Also you can add a little epsom salt into the coffee enema to help dilate the bile ducts. It should be one of the links I posted on the first page. If not then I'm sorry cus I lost all my favorites.

Also I wanted to mention that I feel your suffering on the liver flush. I had a pretty horrible experience too when I tried the common epsom salt grapefruit/oil liver flush. That's when I found the yolk/lime/oil flush. But the next flush I'm gonna do is the juice fast combined with daily coffee enema's.

[DOM]

hey mothergoose (and everybody else who is interested),
here are some tips from a german Doctor who is successful with the following procedure for the standard liver cleanse.I cant translate everything but I will translate the most important key points:

-start drinking 1-3 weeks before the cleanse the following tea (buy it in the pharmacy):
30g dandelion leaves (folium taraxaci)
30g dandelion roots (Radix taraxi)
30g milk thistle (Silybum marianum)
30g peppermint leaves (folia menth pip)
30g golden rod/aarons rod (Solidago virgaurea)
take 2 teaspoons for one cup and let it brew for 15-20 minutes.
drink one cup (200ml) every day preferably approx 1 hour after breakfast.
sip the tea slowly while warm.

This tea helps the liver and the kidneys aswell.maybe you have less problems by drinking this tea instead the lemon and the olive oil.
BTW:the first time I did the liver cleanse I didnt do any preparation and it worked too.with preparation its just more effective.

-dilute the epsom salt with a little bit of boiling water.then add cold apple juice or cold water.if you dilute the epsom salt with boiling water,it will reduce the bitterness.and if you add cold apple juice or water,it will be easier to drink.

-one last thing he says:the big green stones arent liver/bile stones.its from the oil/epsom salt & bilirubin from the liver.the stones are just a scale for the liver function.the more stones,the poorer the liver function.

the rest is basically the same.
if you have leftovers from the tea,you can either finish it or save it for the next cleanse.

I dont know if its true,I just repeat what he wrote and he has good success with this procedure.
I didnt cleanse yet,but I will do it in 1 1/2 weeks.right now I drink the tea because I also have problems drinking lemon with olive oil every morning.

when I finish my cleanse,I will tell if I had any discomfort using this method.especially the epsom salt gives me discomfort everytime

[Mothergoose]

Thank you DOM. You and others here are a wealth of information. To tell you the truth I am totally grossed out with the egg thing. The yolks and lime juice with oil just sounds revolting. I am sure nutritionally it is quite powerful because eggs are full of protein.

I may get up the nerve to try the drink one time. If it is too discusting for me I may go back to the original cleanse with the epsom salts. I do not relish doing this for weeks on end either. I want to flush everything out once and be doing something else...lol

You actually did the liver flush with the eggs for weeks? And the enemas were done just every few days, etc.? When do you stop the flushing? I don't think I could last but for a week....that is why the first cleanse seemed easier.

[fastfreedom]

Yeah I did it for several weeks. Not a fast or anything, but I just made the drink everyday for that long. I found it to taste pretty good actually, just a little sour is all. And the different oils you can use add nice variations of flavor. I tried peanut, sesame, olive, sunflower. Also I guess there's something in the yolk that helps clean the liver. But there's also something in the whites that hinder what's in the yolk. I've not seen evidence of that. Just what I read in that post on curezone.

The enemas were only done for a few days. Then I quit them. i just didn't feel like continuing to do em.

This was all a couple of years ago as I began to research health of the human body. And all that research finally led me to raw vegan eating. Something that I never thought I would consider. But results showed me the truth. I don't know who quotes this in their sig but it's so true. "Nothing tastes as good as raw feels."

When I get ready to do another liver flush I'm gonna do the juice fast combined with coffee enema's. A coffee enema is also part of the Gerson therapy.

[Mothergoose]

I am now trying the egg, lime juice and oil cleanse. I am also taking the enemas as well. It is not as bad as I thought at all. The egg mixture tastes very pleasant which is what I did not expect at all.

The thing is, I am not seeing any stones. I will stay on it for at least a week to see. It has been two weeks since I tried the olive oil and lemon liver cleanse. I got very ill on that cleanse so I wanted a gentler method the second time around because I have no spare time to take off from work.

The only thing with the egg method is the timing is weird. You must not eat three hours before taking the egg and I think you are supposed to not eat three hours later either. Then take an enema 5-6 hours later. A little tricky to time during the day...lol I take the eggs in the morning on the weekend and in the evenings during the week, so I can plan the enema properly. I think I will do the enemas all week and discontinue if I go into a second week of the eggs.

I am not experiencing sickness but I am a little queasy in the am. I have not noticed a burst of energy or anything, and no soft hair and peachy skin yet...LOL

I am looking forward to those effects as well as getting rid of bloating.

[DOM]

yesterday I tried to cleanse my liver again.
But I couldnt do it.I had no problems with the epsom salt this time,but I couldnt drink the oliveoil/grapefruit mixture.last time I drank the whole mixture I vomited.this time I tried to drink it,but there was no way I could finish it without vomiting.

Now my question:Can I use another oil instead of olive oil?
after the last cleanse I have an aversion olive oil and grapefruit.

[Arky]

Dom, if you're having problems flushing then perhaps you might consider an alternative approach.

We've already discussed in another recent thread (http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?t=64495) that you're having trouble with digestion - as one of many possibilities, this might possibly suggest that one or more of your liver/gallbladder/pancreas might be struggling to function properly and if flushing is not working, then perhaps it isn't necessarily the best approach.

Certainly, it wouldn't do you any harm to take Taurine and Glycine ('Now Foods' do a good cheap 'high strength' 1000mg of each of these - check iHerb.com), since these are known to aid in the solubility of bile (see the Glytamins videos I mentioned in this thread: http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/showthread.php?p=655719#post655719). It'd be a good idea to also take Chanca Piedra tincture (Whole World Botanicals does an excellent one - http://tinyurl.com/67f7mf2, and HerbPharm do a decent alcohol-based version, too - http://tinyurl.com/6hcnzxu. I use both.)

The good thing about chanca piedra is that it not only breaks down calcified stones but it is a potent hepatoprotective agent, so you get 2 products in one.

In terms of alternative ways of stimulating bile flow, be sure you do not have obstruction of the bile ducts or stimulating bile flow with oil, lemon juice, or herbal agents is a potentially unwise thing to do (this is another reason why taking the above agents for 1-3 months is a wise thing to do as a preliminary measure). If you definitely do not have biliary obstructions, then instead of lemon juice, there are other options such as milk thistle (also a superb hepatoprotective agent in its own right), barberry root bark, peppermint (yes, ordinary peppermint tea), boldo tea etc.


It is unfortunate that the global natural/alternative health community seems to obsessively pursue 'Liver Flushing' as the presumed 'final answer' whenever one experiences possible liver/biliary issues. It obviously has its place and has doubtless helped many attain improved health, but it absolutely is not the only option available! :)


P.S. please check your PMs...


Farewell.